So... What's so Bad About the Series' Current Direction?

[MamboCat]

I haven't played Sonic Colours but I did watch the cut scenes on Youtube! XD (I couldn't help it!) I kinda liked Sonic's dialogue, he came across as cocky but in an amusing way, calling Eggman names and stuff. It reminded me a bit of AoSTH Sonic, calling people "slow-mo" and shit like that. What bugged me was his actual voice, RCS's version of Sonic is a little too old sounding, if that makes any sense?

 

Eh, anyways... Lost World looked a bit like a massive nostalgy-fest to me, with the return of the Peel-Out, old school Badniks and what not. So it's a shame to hear that so many people hated it. On the other hand, if Sonic is becoming less of what he was I too would be a bit saddened. He's the Blue Dude with a 'Tude!

[Wraith]

Sonic can't dish out the most basic of insults to villains that want to kill him and shit on him for the entire game without being a bully. Right.

Mario characters has gotten away with worse.

[Soniman]

Sure he was! But not as meatheaded and overexaggerated as western audiences made him, right? :v

 

Im sorry, but I just can't find much of a reason why Sonic taking the piss out of the people who are trying to kill him is somehow a terrible thing to do. Like Eggman I can kind of understand the reasoning even though I still don't really agree since again at the start of the game they had every right to shit on him. But the D6? He only insults 3 of them and only one of those insults was anything drastic (to Zeena).

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I like where the series is going. My first game was Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 and from there I love the series and Sonic. I played the Adventure games and all of them leading after I played all the games after my first game. Sonic has went from being the cool hero guy to being a guy with self-confidence, humble but has the biggest heart in the franchise.

 

But I do notice that because some games were bad, we lost sight of Sonic. Sonic only games have showed us Sonic potentals and his skills. They focus on his acrobatic and shinobi moves and his ablities to make something of whats around him. And the games were fun to me. I think now, they should keep focusing on Sonic because hes so amazing and they could make alot of fun with him like they did in Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors and Sonic 4 (1 and 2)

[Fletch]

Ah! But Tails indicated before Sonic ever leaps that something wasn't right about the capsule. But Sonic goes for it anyway. Which still confirms that Sonic isn't making any real indication that he's paying heed to what Tails is saying.

I don't know...Tails just seem to be a good distance away from Sonic and seems like he's talking to himself at first. (One of the moments when a character is talking too low and no one can hear them).

 

Then, when Sonic decides to act by opening the capsule, it all happens so fast. About time Tails said "It's a trap!", Sonic was already in the air aiming for the capsule. For me, it just seems like Sonic probably wouldn't have did what he did if Tails was actually standing right next to Sonic Eggman and telling them face-to-face that something wasn't right. =/ 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS2zzyZPN6A

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

And this is where things just get dumb. We just know and accept that Sega can't get anything right ever, so we accept one end of the hyperbole or the other instead of wanting something good.

I wouldn't say that SEGA can't ever get it right, but more the case, that they tend to fumble many grand scale ideas, and take immense durations to perfect them, or nail them. Not that I dislike all of them( heck, more often than not I love/like them), but I can see why it's often quite the mixed bag of reception.

 

For one thing, they certainly need to take chances, make mistakes, get messy and all that jazz once again as they did years ago.

[azoo]

Im sorry, but I just can't find much of a reason why Sonic taking the piss out of the people who are trying to kill him is somehow a terrible thing to do. Like Eggman I can kind of understand the reasoning even though I still don't really agree since again at the start of the game they had every right to shit on him. But the D6? He only insults 3 of them and only one of those insults was anything drastic (to Zeena).

 

My opinion on it isn't related to him insulting them or not, it's the writing quality behind it, plain as. Calling Eggman a bonehead isn't exactly clever or witty writing, it makes Sonic sound simple. :v

I wouldn't say that SEGA can't ever get it right, but more the case, that they tend to fumble many grand scale ideas, and take immense durations to perfect them, or nail them. Not that I dislike all of them( heck, more often than not I love/like them), but I can see why it's often quite the mixed bag of reception.

 

Well of course. My statement was oozing with sarcasm, although I know how that is on the internet.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

. Calling Eggman a bonehead isn't exactly clever or witty writing, it makes Sonic sound simple. :v

Hasn't being such been a part of his character since the Adventure games though?

[azoo]

Hasn't being such been a part of his character since the Adventure games though?

Not.. really?

Sonic's always sort of had some cheesiness to his personality, but being cheesy and being childish is sort of a different thing. Kind of like being obnoxious is different from all that too.

[Vertekins]

Yeah. And that scene was funny usage of Sonic's dorky epithets for others and what made it even more comical was Orbot raising his hand Reminded me of the time he called Caliburn an oversized letter opener.

 

It was a lot less stupid than him talking to mute robots that was for damn sure.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

Well of course. My statement was oozing with sarcasm, although I know how that is on the internet.

Heh, sorry 'bout that. What with internet posts not always quite decipherable emotion-wise and having experienced this and that back at SEGA Forums, I guess the sarcasm was lost on moi.

[T-Min]

 

We had worse games (like more then one) over the course of a longer period of time. Generations (you know, that pretty good game that got good reviews) was literally only two years ago, so I don't know where that doom and gloom is coming from.

Silly Soniman, thinking Generations is a good game is so 2011. We hate it now, get with the times man. :V

 

*ahem*

 

Anyway, the problem with Sonic's current direction is not with the quality of the games per se, but with brand consistency. This isn't by any means new, either, and can be traced back to Sonic Adventure, if not earlier. The series maintains an identity as far as its character and "speed" being a running theme (AHAHAHAHA PUN ENTIRELY INTENDED), but gameplay-wise - and story-wise as well - it's pretty much all over the place. It started to find some consistency from Unleashed to Generations, but Lost World has seen yet another experimental shift still. It was understandable, since, while very fun and well-made, the boost style left little room for innovation without a serious overhaul. Lost World's gameplay is much more versatile with a lot of room for refinement and expansion, but the problem with Lost World is that it diverges into a lot of bizarre experimentation within itself, compounding an already slightly odd shift from the previous games. But on top of that is the fact that Sonic games have been seeing sometimes jarring shifts in tone, different gameplay detours and many other such changes from game to game since it first went into 3-D, and now we have tons of different people who want tons of different things from the series to be satisfied. The sheer amount of argument over whether the critically well-received Colors and Generations were even of acceptable quality is proof enough of this: after getting so many different things throughout the years, we are a very, very divided group of fans. Some people think Sonic games need more story than what Generations had to offer to be truly great, others are just glad the gameplay was perfected. Some think Sonic games should have more playable characters, others just want a single character whose gameplay is fully realized. Some want more serious storylines along the lines of Sonic Adventure 2, others think that's cancer. There are some who still think that without the rolling physics of the classics, the series is completely devoid of anything that once made it great, and everything that's come since that era is therefore worthless. Others are just content getting high quality, fun games period. But there's also the general subjectivity of what "high quality" and "fun" are, and the end result is that we are one massive, argumentative and mostly dissatisfied cluster-eff of a fanbase.

 

The sad part is that there's no real solution. It's impossible to please all of these people, and the fact is that any change or innovation is going to bring some dissatisfaction with it. There are still people who disapprove of the Mario Galaxy games for downplaying the open-ended exploration of their predecessors, and still others who hate the 3D series for streamlining it even further. At the same time, a series like Ratchet & Clank stuck to more or less the same gameplay style for years with only one or two oddball installments here and there, and saw consistent success with it. I think Sonic could benefit from that - stick with Lost World's gameplay, but keep refining it and expanding it with new elements and level designs. At the same time, innovation and risk-taking can work out very well, too, even if some people will inevitably be pissed off. The problem is that Sonic Team typically either takes it too far or flat-out executes it poorly, but even those are very arguable assessments. It's really no wonder why we argue about so much when so much really is just that: arguable.

 

I guess my main arguable concern of much arguability right now is the writing and characterization. I've said my piece on why I dislike Lost World's interpretation of the characters many times before (and some people here have already summed up a lot of my thoughts), but I think the story as a whole felt very underdeveloped and poorly paced, which is a bit depressing, since it's the first actual story the series has seen since Unleashed. I really hope that soon we'll get a really good one that hits all the right notes - in fact, that's what I want out of whatever comes next in general - but to be honest, I have my doubts that Pontac and Graff can really deliver. They can do well with silly, fun affairs like Colors (characterization-wise, though I thought some of the comedy was pretty well done), but when it comes to more expansive stories, I can't say I have much faith in them after Lost World. But hey, a lot of people really loved Lost World's story, so what can I say, really? I guess I just hope for more of a balance in Sonic's character next time, rather than constant wisecracking and insults.

 

But yeah, that's uh, all I have to say I guess :V

 

*slinks away*

 

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Not.. really?

Sonic's always sort of had some cheesiness to his personality, but being cheesy and being childish is sort of a different thing. Kind of like being obnoxious is different from all that too.

I wouldn't exactly call that quip "cheesy and childish" while giving lines like "Ya big LOSER", "Aw yeah! This is happening!", "Faker", etc, a free pass.

[E-122-Psi]

I personally think Lost World was at least a step in the right direction in terms of characterization, still not perfect but good signs of life.

 

Sonic to me is now becoming a good compromise between his abrasive western and goody goody japanese variations. I find it hard to understand the claims that he was too unlikable when medias such as STC, Satam and Archie border him a LOT closer to an obnoxious bullying jock than the games' taunting of villains ever did (he bullied his own team mates excessively and in far less playful tone in such medias) while AoSth played him a LOT more as the 'relentless smarmy trickster' archetype. Not to mention it still feels more in character than in say, Riders, where he's mostly just sitting back and taking most of Jet's snide remarks. Lost World to me is actually one of the rare times they've done a 'flawed Sonic' that doesn't go completely overboard, making him too incompetent or compromising his redeeming aspects.

 

Tails felt a little erratic, but since I've found most of his modern appearances to be rather dull, I find it hard to complain too much. There's at least some enthusiasm to him now.

[T-Min]

I wouldn't exactly call that quip "cheesy and childish" while giving lines like "Ya big LOSER", "Aw yeah! This is happening!", "Faker", etc, a free pass.

I think what made that more acceptable was because that wasn't all Sonic did in those games. Sonic's character was a lot more multi-faceted in the Adventure games. In Lost World, just about everything that comes out of his mouth is childish remarks.

 

And I don't think "faker" really counts given the context. :v

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Yeah. And that scene was funny usage of Sonic's dorky epithets for others and what made it even more comical was Orbot raising his hand Reminded me of the time he called Caliburn an oversized letter opener.

 

It was a lot less stupid than him talking to mute robots that was for damn sure.

i thought it was funny when he talked to dead robots wwww 

[azoo]

I wouldn't exactly call that quip "cheesy and childish" while giving lines like "Ya big LOSER", "Aw yeah! This is happening!", "Faker", etc, a free pass.

Eh, I guess you got a point there. :v I'm not gonna deny the writing in the Adventure games also suffered from some poopiness, but its the character interpretations that make it worthwhile for me.

[Soniman]

I think what made that more acceptable was because that wasn't all Sonic did in those games. Sonic's character was a lot more multi-faceted in the Adventure games. In Lost World, just about everything that comes out of his mouth is childish remarks.

 

Except you know, that large period of the game where Tails was missing and he put the breaks on that.  :u (I feel like I see this emoticon all the time now)

[Wraith]

Let's not forget the part where he thought Amy and Knuckles were dead and we actually see a depressed Sonic for the first time in a while.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Let's not forget the part where he thought Amy and Knuckles were dead and we actually see a depressed Sonic for the first time in a while.

 

Sonic has gotten angry when his friends were harmed but not depressed like that.

 

He does have emotions like when we see tears in Sonic X when he was going to leave Chris' world. Or he got angry when no one told him where Tails was in Lost World

[azoo]

Except you know, that large period of the game where Tails was missing and he put the breaks on that.  :u (I feel like I see this emoticon all the time now)

Its hard to say it was a large period of the game whenever the game was already hilariously short. :V

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I think what made that more acceptable was because that wasn't all Sonic did in those games. Sonic's character was a lot more multi-faceted in the Adventure games. In Lost World, just about everything that comes out of his mouth is childish remarks.

 

And I don't think "faker" really counts given the context. :v

Were we comparing the Adventure games to say, Colors or Generations, I'd give you that one.

 

But Lost World actually has more balanced ratio than its two predecessors, not to mention long-missed dimensions added back on to Sonic's character.

 

Unlike Colors and Generations, but akin the Adventure games, Lost World did in fact manage to progress its tone shifts from light to dark.

[Soniman]

Its hard to say it was a large period of the game whenever the game was already hilariously short. :V

 

It was more/less the same length as Colors, which is a length I'm fine with honestly. Not sure what length has to do with my original point, but yeah.

[T-Min]

Were we comparing the Adventure games to say, Colors or Generations, I'd give you that one.

 

But Lost World actually has more balanced ratio than its two predecessors, not to mention long-missed dimensions added back on to Sonic's character.

 

Unlike Colors and Generations, but akin the Adventure games, Lost World did in fact manage to progress its tone shifts from light to dark.

 

The Adventures handled it a lot better and more naturally though, I felt. In Lost World, it was more like a sudden character whiplash that lasted three or four cutscenes while the writers were still approaching the whole thing as a SILLY HERPYDOO CARTUUUNE, leaving the effort feeling half-hearted and tactless. And like Azoo said, it was only a few cutscenes of an already very short game.

 

also looool I love how this thread has already turned into CHARACTERIZATION ARGUMENT #124586098509. Guess it makes me feel less alone in that being my biggest worry, though 8)

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Let's not forget the part where he thought Amy and Knuckles were dead and we actually see a depressed Sonic for the first time in a while.

Them feels man.

 

By the way, am I the only who sees the potential for lampshading the negatives of Solo Sonica in this cutscene?