Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Anti Alias]

I like the moelodic parts of His World, the violins, the acoustic guitars, all perfect.

 

however the whole "Sonic is gonna kick your ass" lyrics aren't really something I would sing while walking in a park.

[NocturnalTwilight]

I love that part. 

 

"Kicking Ass fast, putting on a show."

 

Loved it. So much.

[Crash]

This game is the reason for Sonic's 'shitty' friends and also all of the other crap people say about Sonic these days. I honestly think that SEGA could have picked up after Shadow and not have damaged the franchise but no. They made this piece of garbage and now nobody likes the franchise. Shadow could have been forgotten. Why? Because Sonic wasn't the one holding the gun. They could have scrapped Shadow altogether after that game and brought the series back onto it's feet.

 

With Generations, the series has found it's feet again. However, it will never again be considered an amazing franchise any more. I doubt we will ever get the chance to play as other characters any more apart from in the iOS games. It's a shame that this game has completely thrown the franchise into the dirt and made it be considered bad.

[Diogenes]

This game is the reason for Sonic's 'shitty' friends and also all of the other crap people say about Sonic these days.

It's more like it was the last straw for a lot of things. These problems didn't just pop into existence with '06; they had been building up for years. "Shitty friends", for example, is a problem that can be traced back to SA, with Big's fishing, Amy's slow platforming, Knuckles' treasure hunting, etc.

[Blue Blood]

It's more like it was the last straw for a lot of things. These problems didn't just pop into existence with '06; they had been building up for years. "Shitty friends", for example, is a problem that can be traced back to SA, with Big's fishing, Amy's slow platforming, Knuckles' treasure hunting, etc.

 

Yep. You couldn't be more right about this.

 

 Heroes and Shadow piqued a hell of a lot of negative reception at the time for taking the spotlight off of Sonic. Heroes had a cast of 12 PCs, and even when you chose Sonic the game was focused just as much on Tails and Knuckles. Then ShTH went and made Shadow the main character. As if his appearance in Heroes wasn't quite bad enough, this game made people hate him even more. '06 was widely believed to be a Sonic only affair at first, then news of Shadow and "a new white hedgehog surfaced" at E3 2006. Shortly before the game was released, a couple of screenshots of Tails leaked before the Janapese site went live with silhouettes of every character. The general response was... not good. SatSR came around not too long after and was hailed for finally being Sonic only.

[Kuzu]

I honestly never saw the problem with Shadow getting his own game. It's one thing in 06 when he steals the spotlight from Sonic in 06, but Shadow's game isn't even about Sonic, so I can't see how it's a problem to focus on somebody else.

[Blue Blood]

I honestly never saw the problem with Shadow getting his own game. It's one thing in 06 when he steals the spotlight from Sonic in 06, but Shadow's game isn't even about Sonic, so I can't see how it's a problem to focus on somebody else.

 

The problem was that while he was popular from SA2, that plummeted massively after he lost his personality (and memories) in Heroes. So people didn't like him any more after he was so truly botched. But then SEGA made it worse by dedicating an entire game to this character and story that nobody liked. It's not that Shadow got his own game, but instead when and what it was. It's a problem when the main and favourite character get repeatedly side-lined.

 

And in addition to everything else bad about their gameplay, that's what makes playing as amigo characters in '06 so bad.

[Kuzu]

The problem was that while he was popular from SA2, that plummeted massively after he lost his personality (and memories) in Heroes. So people didn't like him any more after he was so truly botched. But then SEGA made it worse by dedicating an entire game to this character and story that nobody liked. It's not that Shadow got his own game, but instead when and what it was. It's a problem when the main and favourite character get repeatedly side-lined.

 

And in addition to everything else bad about their gameplay, that's what makes playing as amigo characters in '06 so bad.

 

Shadow was still a very popular character back in the Dreamcast era, if he wasn't he would have never gotten his own game to begin with. I'm not denying his game was bad, but I can't see the argument "Shadow got his own game is the reason he sucks". Sonic wasn't sidelined in Heroes, or at least anymore than any other character was, especially since his Team are quite obviously the main one. Shadow's game isn't about Sonic, so he had no reason to have any focus. The only games where Shadow truly stole the spotlight are 06, and the rivals series.

[sonfan1984]

After watching a lot of playthroughs and LP's of Shadow and Sonic 06, I can kind of see why people don't like Sonic's friends or find them to be really annoying (Sonic himself is just as bad).

But that doesn't mean I want Sega to completely get rid of the characters or don't want them to be playable characters anymore. I just don't like how they've been mishandled in those games is all.

[Straw Hat]

Shadow was still a very popular character back in the Dreamcast era, if he wasn't he would have never gotten his own game to begin with. I'm not denying his game was bad, but I can't see the argument "Shadow got his own game is the reason he sucks". Sonic wasn't sidelined in Heroes, or at least anymore than any other character was, especially since his Team are quite obviously the main one. Shadow's game isn't about Sonic, so he had no reason to have any focus. The only games where Shadow truly stole the spotlight are 06, and the rivals series.

That wasn't really what was trying to be said here. The reason was, the way they brought him back in Heroes and what it led to with his own game and beyond sucked, which caused him to suck. If they didn't ruin his character in Heroes, he wouldn't suck... that bad, anyway....

Edited March 30, 2013 by AfroWarrior

[Kuzu]

That wasn't really what was trying to be said here. The reason was, the way they brought him back in Heroes and what it led to with his own game and beyond sucked, caused him to suck. If they didn't ruin his character in Heroes, he wouldn't suck... that bad, anyway....

 

 

Well that goes without saying, but he was claiming Shadow as an example of spotlight stealing from Sonic when that game wasn't even about Sonic to begin with. You can't steal away spotlight in a game where you're the protagonist from the getgo.

[Straw Hat]

Well that goes without saying, but he was claiming Shadow as an example of spotlight stealing from Sonic when that game wasn't even about Sonic to begin with. You can't steal away spotlight in a game where you're the protagonist from the getgo.

I think he was talking about the series in general, between that period of time.

Not the Shadow game.

Edited March 30, 2013 by AfroWarrior

[Kuzu]

I think he was talking about the series in general, between that period of time.

 

That's beside the point tho; In Heroes, Sonic is the protagonist along with Tails & Knuckles, and Shadow's game isn't about him. 06 is truly the only instance I can say Sonic was thrown to the wayside. Any other time Sonic is almost always the hero.

[Blue Blood]

That's beside the point tho; In Heroes, Sonic is the protagonist along with Tails & Knuckles, and Shadow's game isn't about him. 06 is truly the only instance I can say Sonic was thrown to the wayside. Any other time Sonic is almost always the hero.

 

You're missing the point entirely.

 

People are fans of the Sonic series, and like to buy Sonic games.

• In SA1 the focus was very much on Sonic, but shifts to other characters in their respective, smaller stories. 
• In SA2 Sonic no longer has centre focus as you don't even get to choose who you play as. On the whole, there's more of Sonic and Shadow than anyone else, and people really like Shadow.
• Heroes happens and Sonic has no more focus than any of the other 11 character. Shadow has the most focus of anyone, and nobody is fan of how it was handled at all. This is bad and people stop liking Shadow.
• The Shadow gets his own game. He's still a popular character, but this game makes people like him even less. His story is ruined, his personality is rubbish and the game itself sucks. Shadow becomes quite unpopular with many fans.
• '06 puts Shadow in a leading role again, despite how well it might handle him. People aren't happy.

I don't get what you're trying to argue. I didn't once claim that ShTH made Shadow steal the spotlight, or that having his own game made him suck. It was that people weren't happy that the spotlight was on a character that was being treated poorly, and the the character they did like (the main one no less) wasn't being focused on at all. These are what the genuine complaints were back at the time of these events. 

 

Look at it this way- between from SA2 in 2001 until SatSR in 2007, Sonic's role in the series was diminished while other characters took over. At the centre of that was Shadow, a character who quickly became disliked for many reasons.

 

It all came to a head in '06 where Sonic's story role was nothing more than "save the princess" and any plot developments had nothing to do with him. And that's to say nothing of the gameplay, where you couldn't even guaranteed you'd play as Sonic when you played his story. 

 

Again you've completely missed the point.

[Emmett L. Brown]

It's true. One of the reasons Sonic Wildfire (which became Sonic and the Secret Rings) was so incredibly hyped was because you FINALLY got a game where you played as Sonic the Hedgehog and nobody else from beginning to end.

 

Shame the controls sucked.

[Kuzu]

You're missing the point entirely.

 

People are fans of the Sonic series, and like to buy Sonic games.

• In SA1 the focus was very much on Sonic, but shifts to other characters in their respective, smaller stories. 
• In SA2 Sonic no longer has centre focus as you don't even get to choose who you play as. On the whole, there's more of Sonic and Shadow than anyone else, and people really like Shadow.
• Heroes happens and Sonic has no more focus than any of the other 11 character. Shadow has the most focus of anyone, and nobody is fan of how it was handled at all. This is bad and people stop liking Shadow.
• The Shadow gets his own game. He's still a popular character, but this game makes people like him even less. His story is ruined, his personality is rubbish and the game itself sucks. Shadow becomes quite unpopular with many fans.
• '06 puts Shadow in a leading role again, despite how well it might handle him. People aren't happy.

I don't get what you're trying to argue. I didn't once claim that ShTH made Shadow steal the spotlight, or that having his own game made him suck. It was that people weren't happy that the spotlight was on a character that was being treated poorly, and the the character they did like (the main one no less) wasn't being focused on at all. These are what the genuine complaints were back at the time of these events. 

 

Look at it this way- between from SA2 in 2001 until SatSR in 2007, Sonic's role in the series was diminished while other characters took over. At the centre of that was Shadow, a character who quickly became disliked for many reasons.

 

It all came to a head in '06 where Sonic's story role was nothing more than "save the princess" and any plot developments had nothing to do with him. And that's to say nothing of the gameplay, where you couldn't even guaranteed you'd play as Sonic when you played his story. 

 

Again you've completely missed the point.

 

 

Your original point was that spotlight was being taken off of Sonic in Heroes & Shadow. Which I replied how that wasn't the case; Heroes still focuses very much on Sonic, but along with Tails & Knuckles as well, they are quite obviously the main team of the entire game and were the ones promoted most during the game's PR. Shadow got a game because of him being popular; the game is not about Sonic, and has no reason to focus on him period.

 

Most of the hatred for the cast came from the crap gameplay they were given back in that era, not because Sonic Team decided to focus on building the ensemble cast. This is why nobody but Sonic is playable nowadays, and why the supporting cast continue to fall to the wayside.

[Blue Blood]

Your original point was that spotlight was being taken off of Sonic in Heroes & Shadow. Which I replied how that wasn't the case; Heroes still focuses very much on Sonic, but along with Tails & Knuckles as well, they are quite obviously the main team of the entire game and were the ones promoted most during the game's PR. Shadow got a game because of him being popular; the game is not about Sonic, and has no reason to focus on him period.

 

Most of the hatred for the cast came from the crap gameplay they were given back in that era, not because Sonic Team decided to focus on building the ensemble cast. This is why nobody but Sonic is playable nowadays, and why the supporting cast continue to fall to the wayside.

 

My original point was that the spotlight was taken off of Sonic in the entire series. Go back and read some articles from 2003/4. People were upset that in Heroes, Sonic was hardly the focus. In marketing it was all Sonic, Knuckles and Tails. In the game, it was different. The only semblance of a story and development there was solely on Shadow, and whenever you played as Sonic you had to have your teammates with you (I said this before). Regardless of the gameplay, people did not like this. Shadow got his game after that. Now of course Shadow should be the focus of his own game and not Sonic, but this came at a time when Sonic wasn't even getting focus either way. And that was a problem in the eyes of many.

 

The hatred came as much from the gameplay as much as it did from the characters themselves. 

[Nepenthe]

S'kinda silly to be upset at a game called Sonic Heroes with an ever-advertised team gimmick not focusing on Sonic 99% of the time; and if anything, it certainly wasn't all that detrimental to the game's public success anyway if the sales records have anything to say about. Note, I'm not really inserting myself into the argument so much as noting how dumb some of the propositions and implications are on the surface.

[Kuzu]

My original point was that the spotlight was taken off of Sonic in the entire series. Go back and read some articles from 2003/4. People were upset that in Heroes, Sonic was hardly the focus. In marketing it was all Sonic, Knuckles and Tails. In the game, it was different. The only semblance of a story and development there was solely on Shadow, and whenever you played as Sonic you had to have your teammates with you (I said this before). Regardless of the gameplay, people did not like this. Shadow got his game after that. Now of course Shadow should be the focus of his own game and not Sonic, but this came at a time when Sonic wasn't even getting focus either way. And that was a problem in the eyes of many.

 

The hatred came as much from the gameplay as much as it did from the characters themselves. 

 

 

The Heroes hate makes no sense tho. Sonic IS the main focus of the game, he's on the cover of the freakin box, and it's his team that beat the final boss. Just because Tails & Knuckles had equal billing as him didn't mean Sonic was losing spotlight, especially since up until Heroes, Tails & Knuckles were billed along with Sonic as the primary characters of the series. Yes, Shadow had his own plot too, but it was mostly in his own separate story mode, otherwise Team Sonic are still the primary focus. 

 

The notion that no other character aside from Sonic is allowed to have top billing is ludicrous thinking.  I can understand 06 or Rivals where Sonic was gradually losing focus, but before that Sonic was still very much the primary focus of the series up until 2005.

 

 

EDIT: And like Nepenthe pointed out, Heroes is built on a Team gimmick, so it makes even less sense to get mad that the focus isn't on Sonic.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Ragna the Bloodedge

[Diogenes]

Heroes doesn't really focus on anyone, by virtue of having basically no plot. You may say that's fair, to treat everyone roughly equally, but the people who want to play as Sonic and not one of a dozen other furry animals aren't going to agree.

And while ShtH was obviously Shadow's game from the start, it still means more time focused on characters who are not Sonic. If you don't like Shadow and you feel Heroes didn't give you enough Sonic, you probably aren't happy with the game.

So pre-'06, the last two major games had Sonic being about 1/12 of an already weak experience, and a minor character in someone else's story. I think it's fair to say some people were hoping for something more Sonic-focused out of the next game by that point.

e:

The Heroes hate makes no sense tho. Sonic IS the main focus of the game, he's on the cover of the freakin box, and it's his team that beat the final boss.

Same can be said for '06, though. Box art doesn't mean shit and being one of the characters to fight the final boss isn't a huge improvement (especially since everyone fights the final boss in Heroes, just that only Team Sonic goes Super and fights his final form).

EDIT: And like Nepenthe pointed out, Heroes is built on a Team gimmick, so it makes even less sense to get mad that the focus isn't on Sonic.

Having a team gimmick doesn't require that every character or team gets equal focus. But even if it does, look at the bigger picture: do you really think it's unreasonable for someone to say, "well I didn't really like all these other characters, I hope they'll focus more on Sonic in the next game", and then, "I don't like Shadow, can I get an actual Sonic game next?", and then get to '06, see another buttload of characters you don't really care about, see how Sonic gets shafted in the story, etc etc? Like, you see how those games are a contributing factor, right? Edited March 30, 2013 by Diogenes

[Blue Blood]

And like Nepenthe pointed out, Heroes is built on a Team gimmick, so it makes even less sense to get mad that the focus isn't on Sonic.

 

It makes perfect sense. Heroes throws a whopping 12 characters at you, with a minimum of 3 at once. You get to play one quarter of the game with Sonic. The rest of the time it's a bunch of other characters that people just don't care about. It doesn't matter that the team gimmick was the point of the game, people didn't like it. 

[Kuzu]

But this all assumes that everyone hated anyone not named Sonic period, which still makes very little sense. If people wanted to play as Sonic, that's fine, but I still fail to see how it's the fault of the characters or Sonic Team's choice on giving everyone equal focus(or in Shadow's case shilling the fuck out of him). This just sounds like people complaining about something minor because I'm pretty sure just as many people enjoyed playing as the rest of the cast at that point.

[Blue Blood]

Nope, it just means people were getting fed up, much like I am with this argument.

[Diogenes]

But this all assumes that everyone hated anyone not named Sonic period,

No it assumes that some people preferred Sonic to the rest of the cast. Which I think is pretty well supported by all the complaints about the bloated cast and desires for a Sonic-only game.

[Soniman]

You think would people would have gotten fed up with SA2 considering it forces you to play as non Sonic characters with completley diffrent gameplay styles, rather that Heroes giving you the option to play as the other characters if you wanted to, not to mention Sonic/Speed characters being the main typing you're going to use throughout the game the most anyway, and not to mention the fact that at least all these teams/characters share a unified gameplay style.