Mario & Luigi 4 (Dream Team)!

[Autosaver]

Alphadream should have made Sonic Chronicles.

 

Or Sonic Chronicles 2 considering there's a huge cliffhanger.

[Tails spin]

I must say that the pi'llo history is an interesting one. Its not Legend of the Seven star complex but still leaves some questions when its first revealed.

[Nix]

I got this game today, and I'm loving it so far, tutorials be damned.

 

The game gets pretty unsettling sometimes; Dream's Deep in particular is pretty intense.  Just beat Bowser which was a pretty difficult fight; never could get the timing down for the Hammer counter attacks.

[Nintendoga]

Dream's Deep totally caught me off guard. I knew they were gonna do something with Luigi subconscious, but I wasn't prepared for those feels.

It's even worse when you realize Luigi clearly thinks of himself as the inferior brother, but he loves Mario too much to be jealous.

 

[Salamander]

Well, I finished the game this morning.  Clocked up I think about forty-five hours, rounded to the nearest five, with around as many levels... got all of the Pi'illos, all of the beans, all of the Expert Challenges, fought all of the X bosses except the one you unlock by beating them all (and I cannot imagine ever having the patience to do so), and made a creditable attempt at the minigames.  I think it may be said that I am done with the game now.  Creditable though the idea may be that the unlocked Hard Mode is a good thing for a game in which I beat the final boss in two turns, I suspect that that has more to do with my relentless emphasis on pumping up my POW than with the actual difficulty of the game, which challenged my defences, if not my offences.

 

It is a very good game in more or less all respects; great fun to play, really vibrant graphics, affecting music.  Some real laugh-out-loud moments in the writing, too.  Rank Up bonuses were a real motivating factor and I always looked forwards to getting a Rank Up because of it, and I'd be curious to hear what other people went with (POW Up +, Gear Slot +1, Gear Slot +1, Counterer, Big Lucky).  I do find that the dream worlds all tended to look rather samey save for Dream's Deep, with the consequence that I think the latter really should have been saved for rather later in the game - but it's the plot I'd like to go into more detail about.  I'll spoiler tag it, as I will be addressing endgame spoilers, so read at your own risk.

 

I said on the previous page that the plot lacked urgency.  Thinking about it longer, I've realised what the issue is.  Pi'illo Island is a quite incredible creation, vividly realised; diverse, with all of the kinds of activity you might expect from such a tourist resort.  The developers exploit its features ably and create a really strong picture of a thriving and fantastic tourist island.  There's just one thing they forgot: The plot.  The plot essentially does not touch the island or anything on it.  The vast majority of the threats on it have absolutely nothing to do with the nominal villains of the game.  It was all there already - insane robots, drill monsters, ruin guardians.  If Bowser and Antasma were not part of the plot of the game then a huge amount of the plot of the game would have happened anyway, and in exactly the same fashion.  Aside from kidnapping Peach and stealing the Dream Stone, they do absolutely nothing that affects anyone's life on the island, at all.  This even includes the knock-on effects of kidnapping Peach and stealing the Dream Stone!

 

There are a couple of other cracks in the painting we may as well mention, though.  For example, Doctor Snoozemore's mysterious absence to lands unnamed and return time unknown.  That seems like a pretty obvious plot hook!  It's not.  He returns without fanfare, discloses one piece of information I don't even remember, and then is never even mentioned again.  That just feels like a dropped plot point more than anything else; it's as if he was written out of most of the game and replaced with Broque Monsieur purely because the latter was less irritating.  I really don't know what they were doing with him.

 

There's also a few other points which I think could tie into what seemed to me like an obvious plot twist that they never, ever used.  At the start of the game, full-power Antasma attacks your balloon, severs one of its ropes, and sends you toppling towards the island... and it's all just a dream.  Presumably!  It's never spelt out, but nobody ever refers to this incident again and the balloon is clearly intact if you look at it later.  Let's put this in another light: Luigi has a mysterious and unambiguously prophetic dream about a new main villain for the game, and this is totally irrelevant and never mentioned.  Huh?

 

Then there's the fact that Broque Monsieur glows purple and is clearly secretly evil at the start of the game - nope, all just a ploy for the welcoming party, and one which nobody ever criticises.

 

Then, admittedly facetiously, there's the fact that the Dream Stone Spirit and the Zeekeeper, two powerful forces for good, are completely awful individuals.

 

In a dream-themed game set on a dream-themed island chock-full of cameos to previous games - Broque Monsieur and Madame and the others of the Broque race, the Bean and Hoo people from Superstar Saga, the utterly fantastic Popple, Starlow - it is baffling to me that there was neither an "All just a dream" twist, nor a "Seems like all just a dream, but actually it's the villain's last-ditch trick" plot twist.  I kinda wonder if they were leading up to it at some point but then decided not to, but didn't remove the early clues to it.  I would have been more than happy for it to have been revealed that much of the game was a nightmare the Mario bros. had been placed in by Antasma during his initial attack - or for Antasma to trick you into believing that everything was a dream and you'd finally "woken up," only for it to be revealed that waking up was the real dream, or something of that nature.  The game feels incomplete and more than a bit odd for not doing this; I'm left unsatisfied, honestly.  It would've redeemed an otherwise lacking narrative if much of the game was in a sense an immense trick and diversion - as well as permitting some trippy dreaminess in the supposed real world towards the end.  So I'm sorry they didn't do that.  I think it's a shame.

 

Also indicative of a lack of care in the plot is that the Zeekeeper essentially murders the Dream Stone Spirit at the very end of the game by destroying the Dream Coin, but hey, he deserved it.  "You mad?"

 

I will absolutely give them credit for one plot twist, though.  I was more or less expecting Antasma to betray Bowser.  It seemed obvious and consistent with Bowser's general low intelligence and Antasma's clear cunning.  Instead, they reverse it - Bowser betrays Antasma, steals ultimate power for himself, and generally lives up to his own hype.  Now that was a pleasure, quite aside from adhering to the Mario & Luigi tradition of the final boss being, in some form or other, magic Bowser.  So good on them for that.

 

One final word to anyone trying to complete all the Expert Challenges: Just savescum it.  Seriously, do not bore yourself silly trying to do it legitimately, with the obscure respawn conditions for the enemies in this game (and obscure spawn conditions for some, come to that!).  It's not worth it.  Well, the reward is totally worth it, but savescumming your way through the Challenges will feel no less of an achievement.

 

Anyway, all in all, quite a good game, though for the next I'm hoping for a strong narrative and fewer borrowed structural elements from Bowser's Inside Story.  Wario or Popple would be a bonus.

[Marcello]

Alphadream should have made Sonic Chronicles.

 

Or Sonic Chronicles 2 considering there's a huge cliffhanger.

When Chronicles was first announced I was hoping for a battle system similar to the Mario RPGs..

[sonfan1984]

I'm really loving the new artstyle. It kinda reminds me of Super Mario RPG in a way. <3

[Tails spin]

I am finding the save boxes really redundant in the game. why have them if you can just save in the menu options.

[Cola]

I am finding the save boxes really redundant in the game. why have them if you can just save in the menu options.

 

I thought that at first too, but if you think about it, they're a good visual indicator for good places to save. They usually pop up in important places, like before a boss fight.

[Conando]

They're just there to tell you that something is going to go down the next screen over. Despite being able to save anytime, I prefer that they be there to warn of an incoming boss.

[Tails spin]

Yeah, putting it that way I can see the point of having them

[Gabz Girl]

My partner is playing it right now and he's loving every second of it. Still have to wait my turn before I can play it though (boo!), but I can already tell its a hundred times better than Paper Mario Sticker Star.

[Dantemustdie00]

Starlow needs to appear in games outside the M&L series, 

 

Got the game yesterday and I'm loving it all, the visuals, the characters, the combat, the music, everything.

[Tails spin]

Starlow needs to appear in games outside the M&L series, 

 

Got the game yesterday and I'm loving it all, the visuals, the characters, the combat, the music, everything.

Hmm, I don't know Starlow is getting on my nerves to be honest. she gets mad or brushes people off like when she was not really concerned with dreambert's dilemma. I know she is very concerned for Peach but both things can be done. 

[Salamander]

They're just there to tell you that something is going to go down the next screen over. Despite being able to save anytime, I prefer that they be there to warn of an incoming boss.

 

Perhaps they might have been substituted for those full health boxes that I think were in the previous games?  I know they tend to make it easy for you to backtrack for a Pi'illatte, but it seems to me that if you can save anywhere, an HP/BP restore would not only serve a practical purpose but would equally well fulfil the purpose of warning of an impending hazard.  I do take the point, though - I always took the save boxes at face value, since outside the Dream World there's rarely much reason to get the stylus out.

[Thrippa]

I'm not to the castle yet - I only got the game yesterday and had a long night at work.  But I was rather amused that ther package arrived rubberbanded to my Luigi pin from Club Nintendo.  Year of Luigi indeed!

[Tails spin]

I'm not to the castle yet - I only got the game yesterday and had a long night at work.  But I was rather amused that ther package arrived rubberbanded to my Luigi pin from Club Nintendo.  Year of Luigi indeed!

To be honest out of all the tutorial to get to the castle. the Quiz is the most pointless one of all. The jumping in teamwork one just before entering the castle was entertaining. 

[Nintendoga]

The Luiginary Hammer is the dumbest fucking attack in the game.

Seriously, I've been trying to get it to work for the past 10 minutes, it WILL NOT work for me.

They put white line restictions so you can't pass them, but the hammer tilts so much that you're forced to go past the restriction line and lose the damn hammer.

Seriously, has anyone even been able to get an Excellent off that attack, let alone make it work!?

[KrazyBean]

The Luiginary Hammer is the dumbest fucking attack in the game.

Seriously, I've been trying to get it to work for the past 10 minutes, it WILL NOT work for me.

They put white line restictions so you can't pass them, but the hammer tilts so much that you're forced to go past the restriction line and lose the damn hammer.

Seriously, has anyone even been able to get an Excellent off that attack, let alone make it work!?

 

Funny, because this is the easiest attack for me to pull off. It works fine for me.

[Marcello]

The Luiginary Hammer is the dumbest fucking attack in the game.

Seriously, I've been trying to get it to work for the past 10 minutes, it WILL NOT work for me.

They put white line restictions so you can't pass them, but the hammer tilts so much that you're forced to go past the restriction line and lose the damn hammer.

Seriously, has anyone even been able to get an Excellent off that attack, let alone make it work!?

I think you just suck at it =P It was hard the first time, but after that it's really easy.

 

Not that I can say much, I find the Luiginary Flame timing hard. still can get an excellent though

 

Stack is also harder.

[KrazyBean]

I think you just suck at it =P It was hard the first time, but after that it's really easy.

 

Not that I can say much, I find the Luiginary Flame timing hard. still can get an excellent though

 

Stack is also harder.

 

Stack is the hardest move for me, although I can still get excellents on it.

[Marcello]

Stack was probably the hardest Luiginary attack, but the hardest Bros move from all of them was Bomb Rally. Took me a while to get Excellent.

[KrazyBean]

Stack was probably the hardest Luiginary attack, but the hardest Bros move from all of them was Bomb Rally. Took me a while to get Excellent.

 

OH YES that too. It took me about a good 10 minutes of practicing it before I got an Excellent.

[Jeffhog]

One wrong save = a gamebreaking Kaizo Trap that makes 45 dollars, 20 levels-up, and 14 hours of progress go down the drain.

Specifically, the geysers of Dreamy Mount Pajamaja. Never saved in a Dream World stage beforehand, and the first time just had to be when I'm fucking trapped.

Now I'm just about forced to start from the fucking beginning. Great, I just love me some gosh dang tutorials that stretch out the start of the game longer than it should. I love the fact that I've got to redo the entire game because of one tiny mistake that shouldn't have as big an impact.

Not so much in the mood for Dream Team anymore. Putting the game down and will pick it up again if I'm ever in the mood for it once more.

Sick Vizard is a man of little patience.

[MegasonicZX]

One wrong save = a gamebreaking Kaizo Trap that makes 45 dollars, 20 levels-up, and 14 hours of progress go down the drain.

Specifically, the geysers of Dreamy Mount Pajamaja. Never saved in a Dream World stage beforehand, and the first time just had to be when I'm fucking trapped.

Now I'm just about forced to start from the fucking beginning. Great, I just love me some gosh dang tutorials that stretch out the start of the game longer than it should. I love the fact that I've got to redo the entire game because of one tiny mistake that shouldn't have as big an impact.

Not so much in the mood for Dream Team anymore. Putting the game down and will pick it up again if I'm ever in the mood for it once more.

Sick Vizard is a man of little patience.

Wow, its like ni no kuni where saving at the wrong time during the story can literally get rid of all of your progress, sorry to hear man, hope you can get back into the game later.