Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Jet Prower]

Well, when it comes to Eggman, even though we may not like him in the way that Sonic doesn't like him, we do like him being around because he makes a good villain most of the time. Eggman's IQ is also likely why he has never managed to get Sonic when you think about it. Sometimes you can be book smart but lack common sense that you need to do everyday normal things. Often times Eggman's devices and ideas are good ideas, but he fails at execution due to smaller things or because he becomes so cocky and arrogant that he just thinks he has already won before it is all over. That is often his biggest flaw in that, while he has good ideas on how to win, he often time misses smaller things that someone with a lower IQ may catch because he is way over thinking it or just losing his focus on other things. He is a good villain, he just has his faults like every good character should.

 

As for the story of the games, believe me, story often is something I do feel is important when it comes to a game. It doesn't have to be there very much in some genre's, but I still always enjoy a good story. That's why I sometimes with Sonic do put a lot more focus on story than others may. I just enjoy a good story and want to see a good well written story at the end of the day. Sure, I would like a longer one, but I can sometimes deal with smaller simpler ones as well.

[Vertekins]

Unpopular opinion; Shadow gets way too much shit from the critics and fandom.

 

In fact I'd say he's a scapegoat. Unfairly lambasted for some of the series' shortcomings that aren't even related to him as a character.

 

My views on Shadow? I think he’s a great character who has had questionable utilization.

 

I was intrigued by the implications about his personality before the ARK incident. In The Doom level in his self-titled game, Maria mentions how Shadow used to have fun running up and down two steep inclines within the facility and it is also shown that Shadow was a friendly, calm, very loyal and extremely protective, if quiet and introspective person before the aforementioned ARK incident took everything he ever knew away from him and broke his heart. It’s genuinely interesting how you can see parallels between Shadow protecting Maria from Heavy Dog and Sonic protecting Tails from Egg Nega Wisp. It just goes to show that both Sonic and Shadow have distinct and really cool similarities beyond their physical appearances.

 

He’s diabolically intelligent too and this is believably written. He’s the one playing Eggman like a card throughout SA2, acting like the chessmaster and making use of the doc’s ambitions to further his own plan of exacting Gerald’s revenge.

 

The character’s determination and perseverance is just all kinds of admirable. Amnesia? Didn’t stop him trying to find answers. Been warped into the past? Just go with it man! Creator turned you into an instrument of revenge and tampered with your mind as well to boot? Go against that purpose and programming upon being reminded of your surrogate sister’s dying wish!

 

Again, whilst SONIC ‘06’s writing was chock-full of problems, I’ll give it it’s dues in regards to the way it portrayed Shadow. It is genuinely epic how he saw right through Mephiles’ facades and saw how he was trying to ‘recruit’ him in order to exact his own revenge rather than to give Shadow an opportunity to fight against humanity for sealing him in the future.

 

As Shadow himself said, if the world does choose to become his enemy he’ll fight like he always has. And he doesn’t need the manipulations and input of any demonic doppelganger in order to do so.

 

It also succeeded in giving Shadow character development by making him not only resistant to the machinations of others but also putting great value in his closest allies. I mean when Rouge told him that if the everyone turns against him she’ll stand by his side, Shadow says that he’ll always remember that. He also seems to express….sadness at the revelation that it’s Omega who seals him in the future yet doesn’t treat the robot grudgingly.

 

What I also find funny and charming about Shadow is his arrogance which I’d say is arguably even more prevalent than Sonic’s! He’s extremely self-assured about his ULF status for one and has no compunctions about getting this across. And then there’s how he sees himself as more than a worthy rival to Sonic in terms of power.

 

Speaking of Sonic, can’t help but smile whenever those two interact. They’re such contrasts from one another and serve as interesting foils to each other. Sonic with his happy-go-lucky. amiable and social personality and Shadow with his tendency to brood, emotionally reclusive and fairly unsocial personality.

 

As I said, Shadow is unfairly scapegoated by the ‘professional’ reviewers and certain fans for the problems the series has that aren’t even related to him. He’s viewed all too often as an acceptable target and I dislike how his tendencies and mannerisms are blown out of all proportion by his detractors to make him look like a bottom of the barrel Sonic character when he isn't.

 

Shadow rocks. And I say that certainly not as some kind of rabid fangirl because I have been far from completely down with how he's been handled and because he's far from usurping Sonic's position as my absolute favorite character.

[MegasonicZX]

Yeah, ive never really gotten why everyone gives shadow so much flak, sure sega kept on bringing him back due to popularity but he's up there as my favorite character along with werehog sonic.

[Kuzu]

It makes you wonder how they would handle Shadow in the current games

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[MegasonicZX]

It makes you wonder how they would handle Shadow in the current games

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My guess is that if they were to make a game where sonic and shadow are helping each other out they would get into some funny arguments and sometimes even have a contest on who gets to take down the big bad like playing rock paper-scissors or something (think goku and vegeta).

[Celestia]

I'd like to see Ken and Warren's take on Shadow, actually.

 

Colours DS didn't do anything super amazing with the supporting cast (though it was nice to see 'em), but I found Shadow interesting in that game. He was kind of acting as a stealth mentor to Sonic, trying to get him to push his limits. Too bad it's considered the non-canon version of the game, so it probably doesn't mean anything...

[Kuzu]

I like to think Sonic & Shadow spur each other on to keep each other on their toes.

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[Jet Prower]

I wish they would do more stuff with Shadow yes. He is such a contract to Sonic that it shows him better in all honesty. You have Sonic who is all happy and so carefree, then you have Shadow who takes things way too seriously and likely is a lot more careful than Sonic. They are complete opposite, but have similar skills to each other in a way. You can't really blame Shadow for how he acts though. When you have everything you ever cared about ripped from you right in front of you, most people would likely go cold like he did. I'm sure if he got a best friend other than Rouge who sometimes doesn't seem like the best friend around or found someone else he liked a lot more, then he would likely be a lot happier and more pleasant to be around. He just looks to be really stubborn as well, but would turn all cuddly in the right circumstances.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

After a previous argument, and browsing the Lost World subforum, I feel a need to get off my chest that I know is bugging other people: this MASSIVE and annoying hyperbole placed on darker elements being brought into the series, either blowing out of proportion how dark SA2 was or the kneejerk reaction we had in one of the Lost World topics over hearing the word "genocide".   As far as Sonic having dark moments, I'll start by saying this: Disney films could fucking laugh at any of Sonic's attempts at darkness. I'll go further and say many won't even know dark until you've seen this Disney film; it hits children with the subtly of an anvil with heavy religious references and symbolism, sexual moments, overt violence, and it still goes over their heads until they grow up to catch them.   And even outside of Disney, the amount of dark shit kids have been exposed to in animation from Pokemon the First Movie (or any of the other movies, really) to Kung Fu Panda 1 and 2.   No seriously, if fucking Pokemon of all franchises can pull off dark and edgy moments (up to straight up death of cute creatures like Celebi), how the hell is Sonic not able to? We've been exposed to this stuff in many animated cartoons when we're younger, are we just incapable of handling them anymore? Or are we once again picking at Sonic whenever he does it?   It's like we've forgotten that we could blend lighter and softer moments with the dark and edgy one with mood whiplash, it's as if we're letting SA2's poor aging get so far that we've become overly critical of even the most mild parts of it, it's as if there's been no other franchise similar to Sonic that hasn't done what he has and succeeded (compare Megaman Classic to X, and then to Zero, and tell me you don't see a similarity).   Or perhaps we're letting ShTH and Sonic 06's failures and shitty handling of dark and edgy get so far to us that we've become oversensitive of it now? Whatever the case may be, this black and white dichotomy we're having has costed us some intense moments in the franchise that we've once had before as far as storytelling goes as Sonic Team goes the other direction, which while it does keep them in check of overwhelming the series with dark moments has made them so cautious of them ever making something as intense ever again.   And while you don't need to be dark to be interesting, it adds all the more flavor and fun when you have it blended with the light.

Edited November 11, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Vertekins]

And while you don't need to be dark to be interesting, it adds all the more flavor and fun when you have it blended with the light.

 

Unpopular opinion? This right here is one of the many reasons as to why SatSR's story hit all the right marks for me personally; It had, IMO, a very well-done contrast of lighthearted elements with very dark ones and I never really felt that it went too far in either direction.

 

Darker aspects like the those concerning Shahra's emotional struggle and her manipulation by Erazor were very visible yet not overly 'in-your-face' and the implications are put-across very well. They had what could be interpreted as an abusive relationship yet it wasn't outright overt.

 

Sonic's predicament is developed in a rather interesting way; You can tell that he's concerned about his curse and mortality but his optimism as well as his determination to prevent Shahra's worrying shone through as well.

 

And then there's the lighthearted bits like Sonic's saving of King Sharyar in that very characteristic and comical way, the way he clashes with Sinbad and the manner in which Shahra is contrasted as a sort of foil with her seriousness compared to the Hedgehog's flippant nature.

 

I could sing the praises of that game's story so freakin' much

[Soniman]

So serious question, are we at a point where we can determine that liking SLW is either popular or unpopular yet?

[Diogenes]

No seriously, if fucking Pokemon of all franchises can pull off dark and edgy moments (up to straight up death of cute creatures like Celebi), how the hell is Sonic not able to?

Mostly because of its abysmal record of it. SA2's questionable tone, and ShtH and '06's complete botching of it, don't prove that Sonic is utterly incapable of doing anything dark, but it sure as hell makes people wary of it. It's not unreasonable to feel that, if Sonic Team can't do it right, they shouldn't do it at all. That said, about the only way this is going to change is if they do try and if they succeed. Though I wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon, though, as I doubt they're in any hurry to risk another big, epic, serious game given what the series has gone through.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Mostly because of its abysmal record of it. SA2's questionable tone, and ShtH and '06's complete botching of it, don't prove that Sonic is utterly incapable of doing anything dark, but it sure as hell makes people wary of it. It's not unreasonable to feel that, if Sonic Team can't do it right, they shouldn't do it at all. That said, about the only way this is going to change is if they do try and if they succeed. Though I wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon, though, as I doubt they're in any hurry to risk another big, epic, serious game given what the series has gone through.

I've noted its bad record, yet that wariness has reached a point people here have thrown a tizzy over having the "genocide" mentioned before Lost World was out, and that's where I find people are being unreasonable to the point they have knee-jerk reactions. It's understandable to be cautious, but too often people go to the other extreme to the point of using Sonic's cartoony nature as the reason he shouldn't do dark. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free Edited November 11, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[MegaMan_EXE]

Popular DIsagree: Sonic Adventure 2 is amazing.
Uh... no, it's a flawed mess.

Popular Agree: Sonic 3 and Knuckles is the best Genesis Sonic game.

If you don't count CD, I agree.
Unpopular Disagree: Sonic R is the worst Sonic game ever.
It's a bare bones racing game, but not awful.

Unpopular Agree: Sonic Rush Adventure wasn't awful.
I may not care for RA, but I don't hate it.

[KHCast]

Popular DIsagree: Sonic Adventure 2 is amazing.

Uh... no, it's a flawed mess.

Popular Agree: Sonic 3 and Knuckles is the best Genesis Sonic game.

If you don't count CD, I agree.

Unpopular Disagree: Sonic R is the worst Sonic game ever.

It's a bare bones racing game, but not awful.

Unpopular Agree: Sonic Rush Adventure wasn't awful.

I may not care for RA, but I don't hate it.

I don't think that's really that popular anymore. At least around here.

[MegaMan_EXE]

I don't think that's really that popular anymore. At least around here.

Oh, really? I still hear it occasionally. 

[Dr. Mechano]

I actually thought Lost World was an example of Sonic Team doing "dark" right. It had high stakes, with fairly well-written grief and regret on Sonic's part. Yet at the same time, it had humorous character interactions (especially those that involved Eggman), a generally upbeat atmosphere, and the same cheery visuals the series is usually accustomed to. It melded these elements together skillfully, creating genuine tension without having to resort to being overly gritty.

 

Thus, it felt less Shadow the Hedgehog and more Paper Mario in its execution (which is definitely a good thing). If anything, SLW proves Sonic Team not only can skillfully handle "darker" story elements, but that they already have. As long as they don't go overboard (Shadow, 2K6) again, this level of darkness is fine by me.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Dr. Mechano

[Kuzu]

I wouldn't call Lost World a "skillful" example of darker elements working, but it does show that simply having them doesn't suddenly equate to a terrible experience.

[MegaMan_EXE]

I actually thought Lost World was an example of Sonic Team doing "dark" right. It had high stakes, with fairly well-written grief and regret on Sonic's part. Yet at the same time, it had humorous character interactions (especially those that involved Eggman), a generally upbeat atmosphere, and the same cheery visuals the series is usually accustomed to. It melded these elements together skillfully, creating genuine tension without having to resort to being overly gritty.

 

Thus, it felt less Shadow the Hedgehog and more Paper Mario in its execution (which is definitely a good thing). If anything, SLW proves Sonic Team not only can skillfully handle "darker" story elements, but that they already have. As long as they don't go overboard (Shadow, 2K6) again, this level of darkness is fine by me.

I feel Adventure 2, while not nearly as bad as Shadow or 06 in the serious department, was a little overboard. That's just me, though.

[Diogenes]

I've noted its bad record, yet that wariness has reached a point people here have thrown a tizzy over having the "genocide" mentioned before Lost World was out, and that's where I find people are being unreasonable to the point they have knee-jerk reactions.

In that case, at least, genocide is kind of a legitimately touchy subject; it's not something that fits too well with cartoon villainy, at least not stated plainly like that.

I actually thought Lost World was an example of Sonic Team doing "dark" right.

Depends on how dark we're talking. It has its moments, but it doesn't reach especially deep.

[Dr. Mechano]

Depends on how dark we're talking. It has its moments, but it doesn't reach especially deep.

Well, no, I suppose it doesn't.

 

Darkness and depth are definitely two distinct concepts. I think a story can be very deep and very complex while still be very lighthearted, and conversely, a story can be very dark and cynical yet lack much depth or substance. Darkness and depth certainly can go very well together, but I don't they always have to.

 

In Lost World's case, the darkness relates more to circumstance: "Our world might be utterly destroyed, and also I don't know if my friends are dead." The depth, inasmuch as Lost World has it, comes more from the character interactions (At least with Sonic, Tails, and Eggman; Deadly Six, not so much) - how these characters affect each other, and how their relationships develop and are expanded upon throughout the game. Arguably, this sort of character depth could have happened in a lighter game as well with little problem, so I think it exists independently of the story's sometimes-dark tone.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Dr. Mechano

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

In that case, at least, genocide is kind of a legitimately touchy subject; it's not something that fits too well with cartoon villainy, at least not stated plainly like that.

I'm not sure that's much of a defense when other cartoons actually have more subtle, yet viceral implications that make a clear indication of genocide happening in examples like Kung Fu Panda 2. Granted, they don't put it lightly, but it still shows a rift between Sonic and other works around its level of cartooniness as far as how people look at such cartoons.

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[SenEDDtor Missile]

Well, no, I suppose it doesn't.

 

Darkness and depth are definitely two distinct concepts. I think a story can be very deep and very complex while still be very lighthearted, and conversely, a story can be very dark and cynical yet lack much depth or substance. Darkness and depth certainly can go very well together, but I don't they always have to.

 

In Lost World's case, the darkness relates more to circumstance: "Our world might be utterly destroyed, and also I don't know if my friends are dead." The depth, inasmuch as Lost World has it, comes more from the character interactions (At least with Sonic, Tails, and Eggman; Deadly Six, not so much) - how these characters affect each other, and how their relationships develop and are expanded upon throughout the game. Arguably, this sort of character depth could have happened in a lighter game as well with little problem, so I think it exists independently of the story's sometimes-dark tone.

Still kinda sad that people are still capable of utterly dismissing the concept of having a darker, OR a deeper story simply because of past failed attempts, ESPECIALLY since it is clearly possible. For that matter, I am seriously curious as to how the hell people can totally compartmentalize their justification of hating the mere existence of anything dark or deep in Sonic, when they have no doubt encountered some other form of media that is equally cartoonish, yet can pull off something dark or deep just fine? It's one thing to not be fond of a dark or a deep story, since we all have personal preferences and such; it's another thing altogether to condemn it from EXISTING from a franchise altogether. It boggles my mind that this kind of double standard is just brushed aside because it's apparently the popular thing or some kind of bullshit like that. My head hurts just thinking about it.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Wonder ED

[E-122-Psi]

I think it largely comes from the fact that darkness in the Sonic franchise tends to be executed in a very pretentious manner, and usually trying to change the franchise into something of a completely different genre, which kinda obliterates the point of it being 'a dark version of Sonic'. We spent several games and medias watching Sonic being converted into a pink elephant in the room, placed into a dark realistic backdrop of cities with photo-esque humans and monsters that could have been ripped out of any sci fi horror movie. The stories if anything felt very detached from anything that represents Sonic most of the time and in a lot of cases actually led to the usual 'Sonic vs Eggman' rivalry taking a back seat. Next Gen is a key example of this, Sonic and Eggman are basically side characters until the last story, and the whole backdrop, cosmetics and story concepts feel more like something from a generic anime.

 

There is also an ridiculous amount of suspension of disbelief in Sonic plots, something that works okay in a wacky project that doesn't ask to be a tight storyline, but in one that asks the viewer to take it dead seriously just comes off as a pure wallbanger. We also get tons of cheap trick pathos and cliches that have little depth of the archetypes they try to copy, there is a somewhat gratuitous number of death scenes in the franchise for example, often for characters that are too paper thin to mourn for in the first place.

 

I also tend to find that light hearted works are better in displaying the distinctive quirks of the cast. Sonic for all intents is a wacky guy and we get to see the fuller potential of his charisma, in a lot of darker stories however, the 'childish' cartoony elements of the cast (and what makes a lot of their personality) is downplayed, and Sonic is often just a generic goody goody shonen hero who plays second fiddle to the darker co stars. Another case where dark doesn't necessarily mean depth, and in some cases can even mean less.

 

Dark works ONLY work if they are executed well, they are also much riskier and more ambitious than light hearted ones. Because most of Sonic's efforts have a very childish outlook of what dark is, most attempts end up a pretentious mess. I'd rather they work with light hearted if that's the method they can get more quality and life out of.

Edited November 12, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[Kuzu]

I think it largely comes from the fact that darkness in the Sonic franchise tends to be executed in a very pretentious manner, and usually trying to change the franchise into something of a completely different genre, which kinda obliterates the point of it being 'a dark version of Sonic'. We spent several games and medias watching Sonic being converted into a pink elephant in the room, placed into a dark realistic backdrop of cities with photo-esque humans and monsters that could have been ripped out of any sci fi horror movie. The stories if anything felt very detached from anything that represents Sonic most of the time and in a lot of cases actually led to the usual 'Sonic vs Eggman' rivalry taking a back seat. Next Gen is a key example of this, Sonic and Eggman are basically side characters until the last story, and the whole backdrop, cosmetics and story concepts feel more like something from a generic anime.

 

There is also an ridiculous amount of suspension of disbelief in Sonic plots, something that works okay in a wacky project that doesn't ask to be a tight storyline, but in one that asks the viewer to take it dead seriously just comes off as a pure wallbanger. We also get tons of cheap trick pathos and cliches that have little depth of the archetypes they try to copy, there is a somewhat gratuitous number of death scenes in the franchise for example, often for characters that are too paper thin to mourn for in the first place.

 

I also tend to find that light hearted works are better in displaying the distinctive quirks of the cast. Sonic for all intents is a wacky guy and we get to see the fuller potential of his charisma, in a lot of darker stories however, the 'childish' cartoony elements of the cast (and what makes a lot of their personality) is downplayed, and Sonic is often just a generic goody goody shonen hero who plays second fiddle to the darker co stars. Another case where dark doesn't necessarily mean depth, and in some cases can even mean less.

 

Dark works ONLY work if they are executed well, they are also much riskier and more ambitious than light hearted ones. Because most of Sonic's efforts have a very childish outlook of what dark is, most attempts end up a pretentious mess. I'd rather they work with light hearted if that's the method they can get more quality and life out of.

 

I don't get how Sonic is a series that whenever it tries to be more complex than "Eggman's doing bad things" or things get darker, it suddenly becomes "pretentious". Dark works are no more ambitious or dangerous than light works, because a lot of Lighthearted reboots have also been met with flack too(Hello Crash, Pac Man).

 

Freaking Toy Story 3, a movie about toys, calls the audience to take the movie seriously at various points, are you going to call it pretentious because the premise surrounds inanimate objects? In fact, I'd say Toy Story calls for a suspension of disbelief far more than Sonic does.

 

Yes, it all depends on the quality of the writing, but that's like saying the sky is blue, or water is wet. Anything related to literature can be good or bad depending on how its written, but if we're going to decry dark elements simply on the basis of being dark alone, then I honestly question if people have an understanding of the concept in the first place.