[DELETED]

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I didn't mind the Tornado stages in Unleashed at all. Once you got the keys down it was fairly straightforward. So I think you can have alternative modes of play without them DEVOURING the game.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Enigmanator

[Tani Coyote]

Doesn't change the fact they were relatively minor parts of the play, and so it doesn't harm the experience that much. Same as Eggmanland, despite being Hell on Mobius, not ruining the game either. You can have some displeasure without ruining the overall product, I think.

Contrast to a Tornado every other stage. Oh wait. We have something worse than that. We had the Werehog. The Werehog gimmick possibly could have been far less irritating if it hadn't been so prominent in play.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Doesn't change the fact they were relatively minor parts of the play, and so it doesn't harm the experience that much. Same as Eggmanland, despite being Hell on Mobius, not ruining the game either. You can have some displeasure without ruining the overall product, I think.

Contrast to a Tornado every other stage. Oh wait. We have something worse than that. We had the Werehog. The Werehog gimmick possibly could have been far less irritating if it hadn't been so prominent in play.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Enigmanator

[Tani Coyote]

Well frankly I didn't have that much of an issue with the Werehog. Yes I think it could have been a lot faster in the earlier stages, especially in the attacks/combo moves department and level design, but at least I found it entertaining.

[Diogenes]

I still feel like this is a cop-out retort in the vain of "Why are you complaining so much? Isn't fun enough?", and you and I both know the answer to that question is no.

No, really. I'm not saying I don't want any larger goals to drive the game, but I don't need every action I take to be justified by some bit of plot, either. A new path doesn't need to offer me something wildly new to interest me; it's a new chunk of level, a new challenge to overcome, a new choice for when I play again. If the game's actually designed to be played with and not just completed, that's going to keep my attention far longer than any plot justification (which is only motivation until I've done it once).

If you think a mech can only be something big, hulking, slow, and unwieldy to control, then of course it doesn't fit. But if a you can retrofit a mech with proper maneuverability and agility akin to what the series is known for, in spirit or otherwise, then why not? Why toss out the idea immediately without sitting down to think about it?

What exactly would this entail?

(This answer also falsely assumes I think genre roulette is something to be avoided at all times, and in a platformer of all genres. If I can get into a motorcycle race in a Crash Bandicoot game, or hop onto an on-rails mosquito in a Rayman game, or do, well, almost anything in a Mario game that isn't platforming, and no one cares, why in the world can't I ride a mech for a few moments in a Sonic game?)

I think Sonic does need to avoid genre-shifting gimmicks more than other platformers because his gameplay is a lot more focused around a certain concept. You look at Mario, or Crash, or Rayman, or whoever, the core gameplay can't really be defined as anything more specific than "platforming". They may have different ways of attacking, some different ways of getting around, but for the most part they fall into a pretty basic rhythm, an even-paced jog with plenty of time to explore and to try things out. This is, at least relatively, safe ground for trying new things. But Sonic's got a very different mindset. Sonic takes the whole concept of moving in a different direction. It wants you to run, it wants you to go fast and keep moving. It's a narrower definition, so it's harder to find things that fit.

Also, while I don't think genre-bending is always poison, I do think some games lean too heavily on it. Crash had some good games, but it seemed like there was a point where they dumped gimmick on top of gimmick and it seemed like they were losing track of the platformer where you jumped on boxes.

[Multikaris]

For me, Tornado was even worse than Werehog wass

[Semi-colon e]

For me, Tornado was even worse than Werehog wass

I think most of us would agree.

On the vehicle topic, I don't mind them as one or two off level specific gimmicks. I don't recall anyone complaining much about the hang-gliders in Altitude Limit, but in 06 they were in 3 levels, lasted less than a minute with loading screens both before and after, and were there just to add vehicles to make Shadow seem more badass. In Altitude Limit there's one per act and that's it. There are also things like the bumper car in Twinkle Park (my only issue with that is that it's too long) or even the karts in Seaside Hill. it's when it becomes a big part of the gameplay like in 06 where people consider it an actual issue. That and the fact that you were supposed to do precise things but they controlled like arse.

[Tani Coyote]

Tornado was fine once you got your finger's DDR skills down, I think... it was also only two stages.

Of course, minor parts of play can be annoying too. That QTE at the end of Perfect Dark Gaia... geez, seriously? 60 X buttons in 10 seconds... goodness. Your finger will get so tired out after one or two tries you need to take a break to regain your strength.

More reasonable QTEs, I don't see a problem with though. Eggmanland was sadistic fun because it had so many of them. But once more, with DDR fingers, you'll make it through mostly fine.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Ogilvie Maurice Hedgehog

[RK64]

I think most of us would agree.

On the vehicle topic, I don't mind them as one or two off level specific gimmicks. I don't recall anyone complaining much about the hang-gliders in Altitude Limit, but in 06 they were in 3 levels, lasted less than a minute with loading screens both before and after, and were there just to add vehicles to make Shadow seem more badass. In Altitude Limit there's one per act and that's it. There are also things like the bumper car in Twinkle Park (my only issue with that is that it's too long) or even the karts in Seaside Hill. it's when it becomes a big part of the gameplay like in 06 where people consider it an actual issue. That and the fact that you were supposed to do precise things but they controlled like arse.

To make matters worse, you don't even have to do anything in those sections of 06. You can latterly put the controller down and you will still pass those levels.....

[Dejablue]

Maybe tornado sections could just be really short starfox rip off segments. I wouldn't mind that.

Uh. I'm dipping into this topic late. what line of conversation is being purged?

Edited October 16, 2012 by Dejablue

[Cyalume]

Maybe tornado sections could just be really short starfox rip off segments. I wouldn't mind that.

Uh. I'm dipping into this topic late. what line of conversation is being purged?

It's gone already, don't worry. Nothing else is getting deleted.

But, I second your idea.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Cyalume

[Mikkiz]

Maybe tornado sections could just be really short starfox rip off segments. I wouldn't mind that.

Uh. I'm dipping into this topic late. what line of conversation is being purged?

Here let me explain things for you. I had a dream, that one day, a certain Silver hedgehog, would get, sold to, (I will get back to you later.) By the way I like your idea of Star Fox rip off tornado sections. We would use the boost to get through Eggman's fleet.

Maybe tornado sections could just be really short starfox rip off segments. I wouldn't mind that.

Uh. I'm dipping into this topic late. what line of conversation is being purged?

Ah screw it I can't say it. They're watching me, thousands of moderators waiting to attack me. I must keep quiet, for now. Edited October 16, 2012 by Mikkiz

[Sega DogTagz]

Weren't the Tornado sections in SA1 just re-painted StarFox clones?

I'd have no problem going back to that, but I'd kind of like to see them try a more open approach to those kinds of levels once or twice. That could be cool.

I'm still kinda bummed that Generations skipped over a Tornado minigame, but I guess Episode II covered that trope pretty thoroughly.

Edited October 16, 2012 by The Arcane Arceus

[Mikkiz]

Weren't the Tornado sections in SA1 just re-painted StarFox clones?

I'd have no problem going back to that, but I'd kind of like to see them try a more open approach to those kinds of levels once or twice. That could be cool.

I'm still kinda bummed that Generations skipped over a Tornado minigame, but I guess Episode II covered that trope pretty thoroughly.

Yes they were. Anyways I would also like to see them try a more open approach to the tornado kind of levels. It could be really fun when you think about it.

By the way, what happened to Sean's post? Did he delete it or something??

[KHCast]

The more I think about it, the more I think Silver could actually work and benefit to be in a 2d Sonic game. Modern graphics and stuff, so 2.5D/:/

[Crash]

Silver sucks. Not just because he was in a bad game, he's just REALLY bad!

[Kuzu]

As much as I agree with that, I don't think we're immune to coming up with something for the guy.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Silver sucks. Not just because he was in a bad game, he's just REALLY bad!

Then don't you think it would be doing him a favor by brainstorm how to make him not suck instead of just parroting "he sucks" for the hundredth time?

[Kuzu]

Times like this make me wonder would it have been better for the series to split off into different series; The classic series with 2D gameplay, and mostly focus on the classic cast with about as much emphasis on story as Sonic 3 & Knuckles had, and a the 3D series which would focus on the majority of the characters, kinda like something akin to "Batman: Brave and Bold" with Sonic(and probably Tails) teaming up with a different character in every game.

Of course Sonic Team have shown they can't really replicate Classic gameplay where it actually feels like a classic game, and the latter will probably only have people complaining that their favorite character(s) didn't make the cut.

[KHCast]

Silver sucks. Not just because he was in a bad game, he's just REALLY bad!

So wouldn't putting him in a game where he could work fine and maybe a story in which he does things that don't suck help him? Just because He sucks now doesn't mean he can't get better ever.

Anyway yeah, a 2d Sonic game hat has Silver playable in it. Considering his abilities, I t hink they would make more sense in that kind of a game then 3d.(not that they couldn't work there) Opens up a lot of creativity for wacky and fun level design. Perhaps creating your own routes? And of course, don't make him as sow as he was in 06.

[DarkDefeater]

The Sonic Rival games have Silver in them, and he wasn't bad. All the characters were identical in abilities except for their special moves. And in both games, Silver had the most powerful one.

So yep, if another 2d game is created with Silver, the developers should take some ideas from the Rivals games.

[Tornado]

I think most of us would agree.

Well, screw you guys too!

Hmph!

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

So, is this gonna be the only topic allowed for non-Sonic characters? No exceptions? Because, while that does get rid of the spammier posts, it also kills some interesting thread ideas.

[KHCast]

The Sonic Rival games have Silver in them, and he wasn't bad. All the characters were identical in abilities except for their special moves. And in both games, Silver had the most powerful one.

So yep, if another 2d game is created with Silver, the developers should take some ideas from the Rivals games.

Ehh. The rival games seemed a little bland for me. And Silver wasn't that interesting to play with. I would prefer they not take inspiration from that game and start anew.

[Kuzu]

I don't see why any idea can't be posted in this thread.