Light stories and why I believe they suck

[Phos]

The problem with Sonic stories nowadays is making the audience care and how broken up they are. Well, first I'm going to have to preface my explanation that everything is like this because the developers don't actually know what they're doing.

OK, the stories: They are frequently written assuming we care about things that the audience probably wouldn't, this ranges on a scale from things that no normal person could be expected to care about (Elise) to writing in things from previous games with the expectation that the audience will care about it from there. What, were you not spellbound by Vector's arc in ShtH? He started looking for the computer room, and he ended up in the computer room. Generations was kind of a funny case of this, they break the forth wall by celebrating Sonic's out of universe birthday in the game (he's still the same age), and yet they feel the need to cook up some ham handed plot about some monster screwing with time? Common, you picked these levels with a Facebook poll! What's funny is that as obvious as the concept of Generations is, not a lot of games actually do what they did (remake explicitly the same level in a new style). So the OoU reason for these things and characters to be here is that it's a sort of compilation/remake, but the in universe explanation is that they're here to celebrate Sonic's out of universe birthday only to be crashed by an in universe creature controlled by a Facebook poll. By the way, does anyone seriously doubt me when I say that they don't know what they're doing?

Anyway, they also get chopped up into little pieces by the constant drops back to some kind of hub or menu. No idea why they keep doing this.

[Kuzu]

The problem with Sonic stories nowadays is making the audience care and how broken up they are. Well, first I'm going to have to preface my explanation that everything is like this because the developers don't actually know what they're doing.

OK, the stories: They are frequently written assuming we care about things that the audience probably wouldn't, this ranges on a scale from things that no normal person could be expected to care about (Elise) to writing in things from previous games with the expectation that the audience will care about it from there. What, were you not spellbound by Vector's arc in ShtH? He started looking for the computer room, and he ended up in the computer room. Generations was kind of a funny case of this, they break the forth wall by celebrating Sonic's out of universe birthday in the game (he's still the same age), and yet they feel the need to cook up some ham handed plot about some monster screwing with time? Common, you picked these levels with a Facebook poll! What's funny is that as obvious as the concept of Generations is, not a lot of games actually do what they did (remake explicitly the same level in a new style). So the OoU reason for these things and characters to be here is that it's a sort of compilation/remake, but the in universe explanation is that they're here to celebrate Sonic's out of universe birthday only to be crashed by an in universe creature controlled by a Facebook poll. By the way, does anyone seriously doubt me when I say that they don't know what they're doing?

Anyway, they also get chopped up into little pieces by the constant drops back to some kind of hub or menu. No idea why they keep doing this.

Because the fanbase is schizo in knowing what it wants.....plus video game developers aren't the best writers.

[Mauro Fonseca]

I'll side myself with Mechano overall in the thread, while adding though that the games could do with a little more tension.

Let's compare Adventure's plot with Colours.

Adventure- Eggman attempts conquest of city, through various methods, from missiles to kidnapping Amy, while making an ancient water monster more and more powerful. At the end, a tsunami destroys downtown.

Colours- Eggman outright conquers and alters the orbit of various planets, pollutes them, and kidnaps and potentially murders numerous alien specimens in an attempt to brainwash the universe.

So what's the problem here?

Adventure makes you feel the danger. You get to see various consequences to Eggman's actions- Amy is kindapped. Knuckles' Island crashes. Tails crashes two planes. Eggman's ship goes around menacingly, shadowing the city, having entire armies and lasers, and even shapeshifting. One of Eggman's robots, a kind soul, is made to murder and do bad stuff it don't want to do, and instead starts attacking its brothers. You see, you feel, all the crap going on.

Colours? You're shown he's captured aliens and then... er, robots? Tails gets mind-controlled in one scene!... and it's solved as quickly, without even being playable. More robots! Wait, Yacker's gone? Didn't even notice. Oh no, the poor aliens! Everything explodes.

It could've been solved with them being a bit more clever with what they show. Perhaps showing Yacker being captured, showing the planets be actively destroyed more on the lines of the concept art and Generations, etc. Because there's a lot of material here, it just needed a bit more shifting of focus.

[Kuzu]

I'll side myself with Mechano overall in the thread, while adding though that the games could do with a little more tension.

Let's compare Adventure's plot with Colours.

Adventure- Eggman attempts conquest of city, through various methods, from missiles to kidnapping Amy, while making an ancient water monster more and more powerful. At the end, a tsunami destroys downtown.

Colours- Eggman outright conquers and alters the orbit of various planets, pollutes them, and kidnaps and potentially murders numerous alien specimens in an attempt to brainwash the universe.

So what's the problem here?

Adventure makes you feel the danger. You get to see various consequences to Eggman's actions- Amy is kindapped. Knuckles' Island crashes. Tails crashes two planes. Eggman's ship goes around menacingly, shadowing the city, having entire armies and lasers, and even shapeshifting. One of Eggman's robots, a kind soul, is made to murder and do bad stuff it don't want to do, and instead starts attacking its brothers. You see, you feel, all the crap going on.

Colours? You're shown he's captured aliens and then... er, robots? Tails gets mind-controlled in one scene!... and it's solved as quickly, without even being playable. More robots! Wait, Yacker's gone? Didn't even notice. Oh no, the poor aliens! Everything explodes.

It could've been solved with them being a bit more clever with what they show. Perhaps showing Yacker being captured, showing the planets be actively destroyed more on the lines of the concept art and Generations, etc. Because there's a lot of material here, it just needed a bit more shifting of focus.

While I do agree, I think most of the horror from Colors comes from if you think about it, rather than having it beat over your head or in your face...but that's just me.

That, and Colors was very clearly a parody of the series traditional plot what with how Sonic, Tails, and Eggman all lampoon all of the cliches the series is known for, this would be ok if it didn't have the aforementioned brainwashing and Yacker kidnapping scene, and didn't treat it with the same kind of seriousness in complete contrast with the game.

Basically those scenes had no real proper setup and as such feel out of place, and unneeded and makes the plot feel shallow.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Mauro Fonseca]

In a side-note, I also have thought for years there should be an option for an arcade mode. You start your game for the first time- "Do you wish to play the game with cutscenes and story, or just have fun with the levels? Choose an option.

>STORY MODE >ARCADE MODE"

And then Arcade Mode would have no cutscenes, no text, just level -> level -> level.

[Kuzu]

In a side-note, I also have thought for years there should be an option for an arcade mode. You start your game for the first time- "Do you wish to play the game with cutscenes and story, or just have fun with the levels? Choose an option.

>STORY MODE >ARCADE MODE"

And then Arcade Mode would have no cutscenes, no text, just level -> level -> level.

That actually sounds like a nice compromise, people who just want to play the game can just play.

[Vertekins]

...Or just locate the pause button to skip the cutscenes if stories offend them so much.

[Kuzu]

...Or just locate the pause button to skip the cutscenes if stories offend them so much.

I doubt people like pressing the start button through maybe 3-4 cutscenes. Stupid I know, but still plausible.

[Komodin]

...Or just locate the pause button to skip the cutscenes if stories offend them so much.

B-but... that's so hard, mang! I mean, pressing a button to skip something that I don't give two bits about? Too much effort...

[Mauro Fonseca]

...Or just locate the pause button to skip the cutscenes if stories offend them so much.

I dunno, my option would just be literally no cutscenes, no loading for cutscenes, no text during levels, just plug and play. You've got to admit there's some pleasure in that, just play the games through, like on Sonic Advance for an example.

[Vertekins]

I dunno, my option would just be literally no cutscenes, no loading for cutscenes, no text during levels, just plug and play. You've got to admit there's some pleasure in that, just play the games through, like on Sonic Advance for an example.

Didn't Colours already have that in the Time Attack mode? Sure you had to complete the game to get it (I think) but it allowed you to play through the stages one after the other without "hinderances"

[Mauro Fonseca]

Did it? Well in that case good, now just make it an option from the beginning and not an unlockable, and for extra pandering to "nuuu no story on my game!" have the game inform you of it when you start it, like Sonic Heroes "50 Hz or 60Hz" menu.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

While I do agree, I think most of the horror from Colors comes from if you think about it, rather than having it beat over your head or in your face...but that's just me.

It's kind of a "Show, don't tell" kind of thing. Granted, they did show what happen to the wisps, but it wasn't presented very dangerously as it would in the Adventures. Eggman takes the wisps, drains their power, and - if I remember correctly - warps them into Nega-wisps. Had it have had a more heavier weight to it, then it would've no doubt presented itself as horrifying as it would be thinking about it with the added bonus of it being seen rather than thought of as horrible.

[Vertekins]

It's kind of a "Show, don't tell" kind of thing. Granted, they did show what happen to the wisps, but it wasn't presented very dangerously as it would in the Adventures. Eggman takes the wisps, drains their power, and - if I remember correctly - warps them into Nega-wisps. Had it have had a more heavier weight to it, then it would've no doubt presented itself as horrifying as it would be thinking about it with the added bonus of it being seen rather than thought of as horrible.

[Kuzu]

They really should try to find middle ground.

Make the story too light, nobody is going care about what's going on(unless that's their intention, but then why hire new writers to begin with?)

Make it too dark, and you make the series seem pretentious and more important than it really is.

[Winston]

I like simple stories, I think they fit the Sonic series very well. Look at Colors and Generations, two of my favorite Sonic games, yet the story is short.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Winston

[Solid SOAP]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a rat's ass about the story? I have ever played a Sonic game bar SA2 and Shadow (The latter of which was terrible) in which I was actually excited to see where the story went. Challenge Mode in Sonic Colors was a god-send, because I was able to play through the whole game without having to deal with the ridiculous story. If SEGA could concoct a riveting tale that I don't actually cringe-through the whole thing, then sure, I'll gladly sit through it, but frankly I just don't trust them to be able to do that. I'd rather them just play it safe with silly, unpretentious stories as in Colors and Generations than churn out absolutely horrific garbage like Sonic '06, Shadow, Sonic Heroes, etc.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Solid SOAP

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a rat's ass about the story?

No, but why should that keep those who do from having one?

If SEGA could concoct a riveting tale that I don't actually cringe-through the whole thing, then sure, I'll gladly sit through it, but frankly I just don't trust them to be able to do that. I'd rather them just play it safe with silly, unpretentious stories as in Colors and Generations than churn out absolutely horrific garbage like Sonic '06, Shadow, Sonic Heroes, etc.

It's been 6 freaking years since that dark age and we've managed to progress to where Sonic is seen as more redeemable than he was back then. On top of that, they've hired completely new writers to handle story and with a pretty decent track record to boot, and yet they're still playing it too safe.

I think they can afford to do more than they did with Generations, because as good as that game was it had a lot of wasted potential in it.

[Kuzu]

I think they can afford to do more than they did with Generations, because as good as that game was it had a lot of wasted potential in it.

That, and its boring as fuck(This mainly story, mind you) literally nothing happens aside from the first cutscene and the reveal, other than that its just useless dialogue about nothing in particular, and the events are so poorly structured that you often have to ask yourself "Why am I doing this?" Nobody is asking for an oscar, lord of the rings esc story, but can we have something entertaining enough so we're not bored? I mean Sonic is a character right? What good is he if he doesn't have a story to go through, he's nothing more than just another platforming protagonist with fast gameplay.

Even if you love Generations, you can't deny its more than underwhelming, espcially for an anniversary game.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

They really should try to find middle ground.

Make the story too light, nobody is going care about what's going on(unless that's their intention, but then why hire new writers to begin with?)

Make it too dark, and you make the series seem pretentious and more important than it really is.

It's not really a light or dark issue than it is a quality issue.

Ratchet and Clank is among the most slapstick franchises out there, but their plots have good quality and are solid enough to be entertaining. Their darkest title was Dreadlocked, and even that still maintained some slapstick moments.

Jak and Daxter started off as rather lighthearted, before nosediving to the opposite in the spectrum in their sequels and they still maintain some decent humor among their dark elements.

The Paper Mario RPGs are very lighthearted (moreso than Sonic usually is), usually getting at their darkest near the end of the game, and yet they have a very engaging plot to them.

If anything, they just need more engaging content. While they can go either way on the spectrum, there's a limit as to how light or dark they can go.

Even if you love Generations, you can't deny its more than underwhelming, espcially for an anniversary game.

To add to that, it's primary saving grace is the sheer fanservice it has. I can understand them not being to risky with their anniversary title after the aftermath of their last anniversary game, but that was so safe it seemed oblivious to what more it could have been.

[Kuzu]

It's not really a light or dark issue than it is a quality issue.

Ratchet and Clank is among the most slapstick franchises out there, but their plots have good quality and are solid enough to be entertaining. Their darkest title was Dreadlocked, and even that still maintained some slapstick moments.

Jak and Daxter started off as rather lighthearted, before nosediving to the opposite in the spectrum in their sequels and they still maintain some decent humor among their dark elements.

The Paper Mario RPGs are very lighthearted (moreso than Sonic usually is), usually getting at their darkest near the end of the game, and yet they have a very engaging plot to them.

If anything, they just need more engaging content. While they can go either way on the spectrum, there's a limit as to how light or dark they can go.

That's what I'm talking about, those games knew when to take themselves seriously and actually treat the threat as genuine whereas in Colors & Generations the threat is there, but severely downplayed in favor of the gameplay, so the Final Battle doesn't really feel as climactic because of the lack of buildup.

Take Unleashed for example, we knew we were going to have to fight Dark Gaia at the end and the game spends the time to build it up(While still maintaining a light atmosphere) with Chip's memories, Eggmanland's presence, and Sonic's reaction to his newest transformation most of the cutscenes are devoted to those themes, so the final battle feels climactic and tense because of the buildup.

Like someone said, the plots need more structuring and actually know when to take itself seriously, and treat the threat as genine.

[The Weeb with No Name]

I'm trying to think of the word that describes what the OP is actually talking about, even though I understand exactly what he's explaining.