Is the tone of Colors really that bad?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

you guys are discussing the canonicity and DEEPNESS of a CARTOON BLUE HEDGEHOG

This is the most sorry ass excuse for dismissing depth in a cartoon series.

How about I pull out a few cards:

-Lion King

-Toy Story

-Cars

-Ratchet and Clank

-Up

-Finding Nemo

-A Bug's Life

-Antz

-Shrek

-Kung Fu Panda

-Sly Cooper

And my favorite example:

-MY LITTLE PONY: FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC

Let's see you say that about those things, and see what it gets you?

A cartoon anything is no excuse for why something can have depth and continuity.

Fine, you win.

Future reference: Telling me that "you win", is one of the few easy ways to piss me off as I'm the kind of person who doesn't do this for "winning".

Edited October 10, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Diogenes]

*sigh*, I know his role in the story, and again, I don't hate chip so please stop putting words into my mouth. Its just that before he regains his memory he does nothing but offer people chocolate, partake in silly jokes, and act like scrappy doo. Im just saying that the whole Dark Gaia thing could simply reworked to just a giant monster from the earths core that Eggman summons, and Super Sonic by himself destroies/subdues/seals him, and the the earths is restored. I honestly dont think its that much of a stretch.

This does nothing but make the story worse. You lose the duality of the gaias (and duality is basically the whole goddamn point of Unleashed), there's no twist to the story (no, a giant monster betraying Eggman is not a twist, hasn't been in years), most of the cutscenes don't amount to anything more than reminding you what you're doing (whereas with Chip, they're building the friendship that is pivotal to the end of the game)...the plot basically becomes filler.

derp

No one cares. Edited October 10, 2011 by Diogenes

[Jacky]

This is the most sorry ass excuse for dismissing depth in a cartoon series. How about I pull out a few cards:

-Lion King

-Toy Story 1,2,3

-Cars

-Ratchet and Clank

-Up

-Finding Nemo

And my favorite example:

-MY LITTLE PONY: FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC

Why don't you say that about those things, and see what it gets you?

A cartoon anything is no excuse for why something can have depth and continuity.

Future reference: Telling me that "you win", is one easy way to piss me off as I'm the kind of person who doesn't do this for "winning".

ahhh the "it's cartoony so it can't be deep reply" card

the difference is that sonic is not on the level of those, maybe if the series actually WAS, then it could apply, but as is the franchise is silly shit, not that's a bad thing

lolmlpisdeep

But maybe i'm wrong and it's just

TOO DEEP 4 ME

[Soniman]

This does nothing but make the story worse. You lose the duality of the gaias (and duality is basically the whole goddamn point of Unleashed), there's no twist to the story (no, a giant monster betraying Eggman is not a twist, hasn't been in years), most of the cutscenes don't amount to anything more than reminding you what you're doing (whereas with Chip, they're building the friendship that is pivotal to the end of the game)...the plot basically becomes filler.

Yeah, looking back on it, I realize this. Chip is pretty much a key character in the game, finding a way to to replace/get rid of him is pretty much futile.

Future reference: Telling me that "you win", is one easy way to piss me off as I'm the kind of person who doesn't do this for "winning".

Sorry, I just wanted to end an argument that was off topic. I agree with your argument and realize how full of holes mine was.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

ahhh the "it's cartoony so it can't be deep reply" card

the difference is that sonic is not on the level of those, maybe if the series actually WAS, then it could apply, but as is the franchise is silly shit, not that's a bad thing

That's absolutely no fucking excuse, because a number of those examples have far more "silly shit" than Sonic does. Ratchet and Clank is several leagues more silly and nonsensical than Sonic the Hedgehog has ever been, and yet it still has some deep characterization to it by comparison.

And then there are the examples I added when I edited my post. You mind telling me how Kung Fu Panda gets even deeper characterization when it's even sillier than Sonic? Or A Bugs Life?

lolmlpisdeep

Uh-oh...you shouldn't have said that.

Edited October 10, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Diogenes]

To be fair, while Sonic hasn't plumbed the depths of silly, it hasn't made that much effort towards depth either, outside a scant few examples. Some series ping-pong back and forth, others tend to stay roughly even. Sonic is the latter.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

To be fair, while Sonic hasn't plumbed the depths of silly, it hasn't made that much effort towards depth either, outside a scant few examples. Some series ping-pong back and forth, others tend to stay roughly even. Sonic is the latter.

Edited October 10, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Diogenes]

Honestly, the "blue cartoon hedgehog" thing does hold, to an extent. There's only so far you can take it before it starts breaking people's suspension of disbelief. The series is tied pretty tightly to the style of a cartoon for children, and eventually you reach a point where that "language" just isn't suited for certain kinds of stories. Though, there's still a pretty big gap between that upper limit and where the series usually resides.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Honestly, the "blue cartoon hedgehog" thing does hold, to an extent. There's only so far you can take it before it starts breaking people's suspension of disbelief. The series is tied pretty tightly to the style of a cartoon for children, and eventually you reach a point where that "language" just isn't suited for certain kinds of stories. Though, there's still a pretty big gap between that upper limit and where the series usually resides.

Edited October 10, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Diogenes]

Like I said, there is still room for Sonic to grow. But, we're not likely to see (for example) an in-depth look at the horrors of war in a game starring colorful cartoon animals (regardless of whether it's a speedy hedgehog or a fat panda). Unless you're intentionally looking for discord between the subject matter and the visuals, they just do not work together.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Unless you're intentionally looking for discord between the subject matter and the visuals, they just do not work together.

[Unknownlight]

Part of the problem of Colours is that Tails was given jokes.

Tails cannot tell a joke.

As terribly poorly written as the translator gags were, even those might have worked slightly better if RCS was spouting them.

[C.J]

I'd like to think so mainly the Jokes, sense of humor and the storyline fell flat and rushed out one of my main reasons why I didn't like Colo(u)rs but not only that reason many others such as the stiff gameplay and horrible controls but that's just my opinion I didn't like Colo(u)rs very much (The Wii Ver) I liked the DS Version better.

Edited October 10, 2011 by C.J

[Speederino]

I quite like it. As others have pointed out, it doesn't take itself seriously and, shocking as this will be to some, I liked most of the jokes. They weren't hysterical or anything, but they at least made me chuckle.

Besides, this is miles above stuff like Sonic Heroes (Horribly cheesy while showing no signs of remorse about it), Shadow the Hedgehog (Shouldn't need to explain that one), and Sonic 2006 (Takes itself waaaaaaaaaay too seriously).

[Aquaslash]

(Takes itself waaaaaaaaaay too seriously).

See, that was the problem with Sonic up until Colors. It was trying so hard to be all deep and "epic" that it lost the grasp of FUN. I think that Sonic works best when it's just fun. You can do big giant end of the world plots without being all melodramatic and looking like a bad anime. Sonic 3 and Knuckles did that much.

I'll admit, in the sole case of Eggman's antics, Unleashed was a step in the right direction. Colors was a big giant leap in that same direction, which was helped greatly by a well timed change and improvement in acting talent. Generations looks like it's going to be keeping pace in that direction, which I think will bode well for Sonic stories in the future. Imagine that, a Sonic story entertaining due to good writing, instead of the usual god awful production.

[back2s0ul]

I like the more lighthearted, playful tone of Sonic Colors. The complexity of the story should not make or break it. It's a video game, not a feature film.

[two tailed fox]

Sonic colors tone isn't all that bad it's just different. The tone is light heated and the jokes range from funny to... well a jokes more suited towards a younger audience.

Sonic games have never really been good at making stories that catch your attention, except for sonic adventure 1 and 2.

These games actually had decent stories, and it is sad that they dumped all that out a window. Eggman was evil, Tails was less useless, and all the various characters (besides big) had a purpose, and personality [well i guess big had somewhat of a personality] In sonic adventure 1 you had many themes such as friendship, light and dark, and a whole back story of the echidnas and the master emerald. In sonic adventure 2 you had shadows back story, eggman trying to destroy a city to gain control of earth, and good dialogue (especially between knuckles and rogue),

So to sum up, I am fine with the way sonic is handling their stories, but sega has seriously gotten lazy with their stories.

I mean sonic adventure 1 and 2 in a way made the whole other universe (the non Archie one), and no game since as really added to it. In fact half of sonic x ties directly with those games.

Edited October 12, 2011 by two tailed fox

[Gaming Misfit]

We are talking about a series that stars a cartoony blue hedgehog who runs at the speed of sound and loves chili dogs. I see no issue with some corny jokes.

[Kuzu]

We are talking about a series that stars a cartoony blue hedgehog who runs at the speed of sound and loves chili dogs. I see no issue with some corny jokes.

And you had to play the cartoon hedgehog card didn't ya?

[Gaming Misfit]

And you had to play the cartoon hedgehog card didn't ya?

Well, come on. Am I supposed to take a series like that seriously? Also, I've never really cared about Sonic's plots. It's all about gameplay, visuals and overall fun for me.

[Kuzu]

Well, come on. Am I supposed to take a series like that seriously? Also, I've never really cared about Sonic's plots. It's all about gameplay, visuals and overall fun for me.

Does that mean we should just say fuck all to all stories and not even try to make a good one anymore? Its not about Sonic being a cartoon hedgehog its about actually putting together a decent story that people can enjoy, if you don't care fine, just skip the cutscenes, but don't act like a story should just be forgotten altogether and in its place just pointless jokes and nothing else, because if that's the case you may as well not have cutscenes at all if that's all you're going to waste them on,

[Scar]

I will say this and this alone.

Just because Sonic is a Cartoony Blue supersonic Hedgehog, doesn't mean he is automatically exempt from any narrative development. Whether you would take it seriously or otherwise. There is always room for narrative development in any game with a story.

However, I will also say, that a series such as Sonic shouldn't be totally devoid of cartoony humour and corny jokes. Yeah, you might not like those corny jokes, but somebody else might.

The series is for everyone. I cannot stress enough how important this fact is. You want 100% serious business and 'deep' plots, look elsewhere. You want 100% jokes and shallow plots, then look elsewhere. There is a happy medium, whereby a cartoony narrative can have jokes and humour, but also have significant underlying plot development. The kids can enjoy the superficial humour and jokes, and the adults can enjoy the underlying plot elements, more advance character developments etc.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Scar

[Soniman]

The series is for everyone. I cannot stress how important this fact is. You want 100% serious business and 'deep' plots, look elsewhere. You want 100% jokes and shallow plots, then look elsewhere. There is a happy medium, whereby a cartoony narrative can have jokes and humour, but also have significant underlying plot development. The kids can enjoy the superficial humour and jokes, and the adults can enjoy the underlying plot elements, more advance character developments etc.

This is one thing im hoping Generations does well (by the way, did they ever confirm that the writers for Colors are also on board for Generations?)

Edited October 13, 2011 by Soniman032-

[jeremycarrier]

You can make your narratives for everyone without having facepalm-inducing corniness like BBBE and Baldy McNoseHair, and the condescending, silly music whenever its jokey time. Pixar movies can be enjoyed by everyone, from 4-year olds to 40-year olds, and work on multiple levels. You don't have to dumb down your story with fart jokes like a Shrek film.

Be more like Pixar, less like Dreamworks(pre-KFP, that is)

[sonfan1984]

Does that mean we should just say fuck all to all stories and not even try to make a good one anymore? Its not about Sonic being a cartoon hedgehog its about actually putting together a decent story that people can enjoy, if you don't care fine, just skip the cutscenes, but don't act like a story should just be forgotten altogether and in its place just pointless jokes and nothing else, because if that's the case you may as well not have cutscenes at all if that's all you're going to waste them on,

Edited October 14, 2011 by sonfan1984