Story in Sonic Games-How we want it

[Pawn]

Merlina sliced Caliburn in two and kept inflicting the most vicious and unrestrained beatdown on him so far seen in the series all because Sonic violently objected to her one-sided sadness and determination to make Camelot a hell on earth all for the sake of escaping her own sadness, completely irrespective of the suffering of the people that would result from such an action and the unnaturalness of it. This correlates with the extremely high standard in which Sonic holds personal freedoms and no matter how much Merlina battered him, he wasn't going to sit down and watch as she violated profound natural laws and other people's rights. That is him fighting for his views.

 

It was a physical struggle, yes, but it didn't faze him emotionally. He was never in doubt about his views.

[Spin Attaxx]

Like this, the testing part only works if it's believable, if you can convince the reader that there is a chance he could take the wrong path...or maybe that the path he's chosen is wrong, or something that shows he isn't perfect, that he's still growing and facing problems.

 

You mean like Luke in Return of the Jedi or something?

[Diogenes]

There was not one single moment in SatBK when Sonic played the part of some God Mode Sue.

Following this with examples of Sonic always being right doesn't entirely help your case...

[Kuzu]

I was going over this lately in my Literature course, but in order for the characters to truly come off as interesting we need to see them at their lowest points; A hero needs to lose before he ultimately wins, and by lose I mean the ramifications of his loss need to be addressed in order for it to be conveyed to the audience. Sonic doesn't really lose nowadays, not even a little; any loss he attains is treated more like an inconvenience than anything else and then he's quick to turn the whole thing around without any really struggle on his part.

 

 

Black Knight is fine and all by asserting Sonic's ideals and then have him have his ass handed to him, but then it's somewhat mitigated by the fact that he's saved by what's essentially a Dues Ex Machina, which kinda mitigates the awesome somewhat. A better scenario would have been to have this loss in the middle of the game; Sonic is beaten physically, and has lost his companion through the game(Caliburn) and loses hope as the kingdom crumbles around him, but gets new resolve when he's told there's a chance to win and save Caliburn which prompts Sonic, and the Knights to do their thing with the sword and finally confront Merlina.

 

 

In order for the stories(and by extension the characters) to be interesting, they need to play with the audiences emotions; have the heroes lose so we want them to win, test the limits of their character and see what you can build. 

[Burnt Ash]

In order for the stories(and by extension the characters) to be interesting, they need to play with the audiences emotions; have the heroes lose so we want them to win, test the limits of their character and see what you can build.

This, especially. I've also gone over this in my English class, but successful story (both in literature and video games, I guess) should successfully utilize rhetoric in order to connect to its audience and to help develop a cohesive, decent story. The audience should also, to an extent empathize with the characters; it gives it all the more meaning and interesting depth to it. If the games tried to implement this more, I think it would be to its benefit, really.

[DarkDefeater]

I was going over this lately in my Literature course, but in order for the characters to truly come off as interesting we need to see them at their lowest points; A hero needs to lose before he ultimately wins, and by lose I mean the ramifications of his loss need to be addressed in order for it to be conveyed to the audience. Sonic doesn't really lose nowadays, not even a little; any loss he attains is treated more like an inconvenience than anything else and then he's quick to turn the whole thing around without any really struggle on his part.

 

 

Black Knight is fine and all by asserting Sonic's ideals and then have him have his ass handed to him, but then it's somewhat mitigated by the fact that he's saved by what's essentially a Dues Ex Machina, which kinda mitigates the awesome somewhat. A better scenario would have been to have this loss in the middle of the game; Sonic is beaten physically, and has lost his companion through the game(Caliburn) and loses hope as the kingdom crumbles around him, but gets new resolve when he's told there's a chance to win and save Caliburn which prompts Sonic, and the Knights to do their thing with the sword and finally confront Merlina.

 

 

In order for the stories(and by extension the characters) to be interesting, they need to play with the audiences emotions; have the heroes lose so we want them to win, test the limits of their character and see what you can build. 

 

 

 

Agreed. However, I feel that Sonic Team still have the method of saving a great loss or plot twist until the end of the story. The 'last story.' If I'm remembering correctly, Almost all Sonic games since Sonic adventure have had a 'last story.' Personally, I feel that most of the last story segments were enjoyable, but I also agree that having a plot twist more towards the middle of the game could add a fresh twist to Sonic stories.

 

For example, Twilight Princess. Link and Midna found the fused shadows and traveled to the mirror of twilight, only to find that it was broken in pieces. This was a development that enhanced the story. If this development was done near the end of the game, the game writers would not have been able to do as much with it.

 

In short, Sonic Team may need to move away from 'last stories' and develop plots that are more evenly paced.

[Diogenes]

In short, Sonic Team may need to move away from 'last stories' and develop plots that are more evenly paced.

There's nothing really wrong with having a Last Story, I think. Pretty much any action story is going to have a big climactic endgame. It's true, though, that they need to fill in the middle more, instead of leaving it empty.

[Scar]

The "Last Story" is commonly referred to as "The Third Act" in cinema. There's nothing wrong with it per say, its just that it has become a bit too predictable these days. They need to mix things up a little bit.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Character development isn't just about changing; it's also about testing the strength of a characters ideals, and showing how far they're willing to go to stay true to themselves.

 

Actually, it is, in fact, all about change; how much a character has essentially grown. What was it about the character that helped them? What wasn't that didn't? What did they learn? What did they not learn? Have they become any better or worst for it? And a myriad of other questions you can think of about the change in their character.

 

It is very much about how a character has changed from the moment we experienced them to the moment we ended the book with them. If it wasn't all about change, it wouldn't be called Character Development; for something to develop, something has to change. Kinda like the development cycle which you could say it derives from.

 

No change = a static character = no development whatsoever.

 

EDIT: Kinda read the sentence wrong. My eyes chopped out a few words for some reason...

Edited March 7, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Diogenes]

When you develop a photo, you aren't really changing it, just revealing what was already there.

...I don't know if that's actually relevant tho'.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

When you develop a photo, you aren't really changing it, just revealing what was already there.

...I don't know if that's actually relevant tho'.

That's essentially changing it.

 

I remember something you said to me a long time ago, "If X wasn't the same as it was before, then it's changing it."

[Diogenes]

Then revealing a character in more detail is "change" and thus character development...?

[Burnt Ash]

Well, according to TVTropes, "Character development is, by definition, the change in characterization of a Dynamic Character, who changes over the course of a narrative. At its core, it shows a character changing. Most narrative fiction in any media will feature some display of this."

 

Judging from that, I'm assuming a great deal about it is due to change.

 

Now, I'm wondering, is there any major instance in which Sonic has actually developed as a character? I mean, he's presented to us as a cocky, short tempered hero (in addition to other traits given to him in instruction manuals), but in the stories, has he actually developed, or is his character and morals simply reinforced? Games like Black Knight show Sonic's tendency to never give up -- his persistence, but I'm not sure if that's so much character development so much as it is reinforcement of what we know of him already.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Burnt Ash

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Then revealing a character in more detail is "change" and thus character development...?

In a way, yes...

You (the audience) digging FURTHER into the character and knowing more about them than even they do, and if the narrative allows it they (the character) learning more about themselves that further influences them.

 

Although revealing more detail may just be considered Character Depth than Development...they might be related, in a way.

Edited March 7, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

Agreed. However, I feel that Sonic Team still have the method of saving a great loss or plot twist until the end of the story. The 'last story.' If I'm remembering correctly, Almost all Sonic games since Sonic adventure have had a 'last story.' Personally, I feel that most of the last story segments were enjoyable, but I also agree that having a plot twist more towards the middle of the game could add a fresh twist to Sonic stories.

 

For example, Twilight Princess. Link and Midna found the fused shadows and traveled to the mirror of twilight, only to find that it was broken in pieces. This was a development that enhanced the story. If this development was done near the end of the game, the game writers would not have been able to do as much with it.

 

In short, Sonic Team may need to move away from 'last stories' and develop plots that are more evenly paced.

 

 

Well any good story needs a decent climax,  it's just that the middle parts of the story tend to be the least exciting.

 

I mean let's compare the Adventure games with the storybook games.

 

Sonic Adventure

Prologue-Sonic returns to Station Square and engages Chaos and later learns the more emeralds it absorbs, the stronger it becomes setting up the quest to get the emeralds before Eggman does.

 

Second Act-Eggman steadily gets more emeralds for Chaos as more characters continue to get involved, cultivating in Chaos having six emeralds, just one away from achieving his perfect form and the heroes fight on board Eggman's flagship to prevent him from becoming perfect.

 

Third Act-After the Egg Carrier crashes, Chaos turns out to be alive and goes on a hunt for the emeralds and taking down everything in his path. Chaos achieves what you've been spending the entire game trying to avoid and destroys Station Square to set up how powerful he is. Sonic goes Super and engages the creature and ultimately defeats it. Resulting in an(Objectively speaking) Happy Ending.

 

Sonic Adventure 2

Prologue-Eggman breaks into Prison Island and unleashes Shadow. Sonic is framed for Shadow's actions and ultimately humiliated by him when they finally confront each other, leaving Sonic in jail and Eggman learning of the existence of the Eclipse Cannon and that it needs the emeralds to function, prompting another "get the emeralds before Eggman" does scenario.

 

Second Act- Tails, Amy(and later Knuckles) break Sonic out of prison and learn through Eggman's demonstration of the Eclipse cannon and it's power, and stage a plan to get aboard the ark and stop him as Eggman tries to hinder their efforts. This cultivates in Eggman seemingly killing Sonic, and subsequently obtaining the last emerald needed for the cannon. Sonic manages to save himself and has one final showdown with Shadow to stop Eggman's plan once and for all.

 

Third Act- Eggman manages to activate the cannon, but turns out it was a setup by his grandfather to get revenge, and that Shadow was in on the whole thing. This prompts the two opposing sides to team up to save both themselves and the planet itself. Sonic & Shadow go super, stop the collision, Shadow dies leaving a bittersweet ending.

 

 

See how both stories have a proper setup, an engaging middle portion, and then a climax to tie it all together magnificently? That's how a story works, it's supposed to be a roller-coaster of things happening. Now let's compare the storybooks games.

 

 

Secret Rings:

 

Prologue-Sonic gets told of the evil Erazor is causing and is recruited by Sonic to help stop him. Erazor confronts Sonic and gives him an ultimatum that he collects and delivers the world rings or he will die. So now Sonic is trying to save both the storybook world, and his own life.

 

Second Act- Sonic collects the World Rings...and that's it. He meets other versions of Tails, Knuckles, and Eggman tho....who don't do anything important to the plot. The game just kinda halts after we're told to collect the rings as nothing interesting happens. I mean Erazor summons the Ifrit...which didn't really have any consequence...so yeah.

 

Third Act- Erazor manages to get all of the World Rings, Shahra sacrifices herself to protect Sonic, and Erazor & Sonic duke it out for the fate of the storybook world. Sonic wins, Erazor is sealed. Handkerchiefs, whatever. Pretty nice ending, but there wasn't much in the middle.

 

Black Knight

 

Prologue- Sonic is once again called in to save a storybook and stop the Big Bad. Except...the Big Bad hasn't done anything, at all. Seriously, we're told "Arthur" is this evil tyrant who must be defeated, but does anyone even notice how he doesn't do anything at all antagonistic? Hell, why was he even chasing Merlina to begin with? Did he have any plan whatsoever? I mean the only thing he does is be a boss fight...and that's it. At least Erazor gave Sonic a reason to stop him.

 

Second Act- Ok, so we're told we have to stop Arthur...because the game said so, and that we need to obtain the sacred swords to do so. Sonic then proceeds to kick the ass of Not!Shadow, Not!Knuckles, and Not!Blaze and get their blades....and that's it. Once again, nothing happens in the middle part. Sonic meets the Knights, they exchange a few words and then we don't hear from them again till the endgame. Not very exciting if I'm honest. Sonic kills the bland Knight, blah blah. There is a nice bit with Sonic & a kid tho, I liked that, story needed more moments like that.

 

Third Act- So stuff finally begins to happen. Merlina betrays Sonic by revealing she was using him and plans on using the scabbard on tearing the kingdom apart. Wait, why did Merlina betray Sonic again? Didn't she call him to save this place? Yeah, I know what you're gonna say "Well she wanted to save the kingdom", except nothing leads up to her betrayal at all, it's literally right the fuck outta nowhere and seems to exist just for the sake of it. It's like the writers forgot they needed a proper climax and just threw one in. So yeah, swords, Merlina angsts about a Kingdom that we literally haven't been given anytime to care about. Seriously, did anyone give two shits about Camelot coming to an end? I mean why is it so bad? Why should we care beyond Merlina saying we should? Anyway, Merlina hands Sonic his ass and all hope seems lost......until another Dues Ex Machina conveniently save him. Anyway, yeah world is saved, Sonic is Arthur, the end.

 

 

See what I mean? There's literally nothing interesting of note in the second acts of the storybook games, it's just there to pad the game out till the climax, and it kinda makes it feel....shallow? I mean a climax isn't exactly interesting if there's no buildup to it, and the storybook games barely had any. This problem is even more obvious in the Modern games which somehow have made it even worse. So yeah, more exciting seconds acts plz.

 

 

....That cover of the storybook games looks a lot more harsher than I intended....oops =\

[Sega DogTagz]

....That cover of the storybook games looks a lot more harsher than I intended....oops =\

 

Boy howdy.

 

I tried to follow you logic, but I don't. Secret Rings essentially follows the same plot structure as SA1 and you severely sold the plot developments of BK short.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Ya in Black Knight it was kinda implied that it was arthur who locked up the prisoners in the dungeon, and that he might have been behind the goons all across the land, just a thought

[Kuzu]

 Secret Rings essentially follows the same plot structure as SA1 and you severely sold the plot developments of BK short.

 

Secret Rings follows the same basic plot structure, but the actual events are very different which is what I was pointing out. Adventure has things happening in the middle, Secret Rings doesn't. As for Black Knight, maybe I don't look as fondly when I was able to sort some things out, but what plot developments did I apparently out on.

[Sega DogTagz]

as for Black Knight, maybe I don't look as fondly when I was able to sort some things out, but what plot developments did I apparently out on.

 

Well for one thing..

except nothing leads up to her betrayal at all, it's literally right the fuck outta nowhere and seems to exist just for the sake of it. It's like the writers forgot they needed a proper climax and just threw one in.

 

 

Are you kidding? Speaking retroactively, we know that Merlina’s flower scene was a deliberate forshadowing of things to come.

 

Furthermore, her connection to Sharah leaves behind another clue. Sharah manifested a lot of credibility despite betraying the hedgehog in the first storybook game. Re-using her character model for the sequel was a move by the game developers to cash in on that credibility while at the same time attempting  to continue the trend set by her predecessor.

 

The betrayal was set in front of your face before you even booted up the game. Merlina shared a more than obvious resemblance to Sharah, a character who had just stabbed Sonic in the back. Her betrayal was hidden in plain sight both by the storytelling and by her character model.

 

Looking back, the clues were all there. The character model, the foreshadowing, the gap for misinformation that she ultimately took advantage of. It all sets the stage for a well timed and well planned coup of the storyline. If you think its literally out of nowhere, then your missing the forest for the trees.

 

If you want another plot element you skipped over, I’d label Sonic’s ascension into Knight-hood as a biggie. And his trials with Nimue were pretty important too. You have to include that in there. How you summed that up to “a nice bit with the kid” is beyond me. 

[Kuzu]

Well for one thing..

 

 

Are you kidding? Speaking retroactively, we know that Merlina’s flower scene was a deliberate forshadowing of things to come.

 

Furthermore, her connection to Sharah leaves behind another clue. Sharah manifested a lot of credibility despite betraying the hedgehog in the first storybook game. Re-using her character model for the sequel was a move by the game developers to cash in on that credibility while at the same time attempting  to continue the trend set by her predecessor.

 

The betrayal was set in front of your face before you even booted up the game. Merlina shared a more than obvious resemblance to Sharah, a character who had just stabbed Sonic in the back. Her betrayal was hidden in plain sight both by the storytelling and by her character model.

 

Looking back, the clues were all there. The character model, the foreshadowing, the gap for misinformation that she ultimately took advantage of. It all sets the stage for a well timed and well planned coup of the storyline. If you think its literally out of nowhere, then your missing the forest for the trees.

This only makes sense tho if you've played Secret Rings, and I shouldn't have to play one game to make sense out a plot point in another unless the two are directly connected. Secondly, what you said doesn't make much sense within the context of the game itself, which is what I'm referring to; Merlina's appearance has no bearing on her betrayal, the story doesn't even acknowledge her resemblance to Shahra in the slightest. Maybe I was a bit presumptuousness saying it came outta nowhere, but considering the only bit of foreshadowing you had was the flower scene and the fact that Merlina spent like 75% away, it just comes off that way.

 

 

If you want another plot element you skipped over, I’d label Sonic’s ascension into Knight-hood as a biggie. And his trials with Nimue were pretty important too. You have to include that in there. How you summed that up to “a nice bit with the kid” is beyond me. 

 

The "trials" you're referring to don't amount to much beyond going through levels and getting to the end, which is what you were already doing to begin with, so how is this important to the story at all?

[Salamander]

I think it's possible to overstate the importance of character development to the series.  What you have to remember is that we're dealing with a franchise that's intended to go on theoretically forever with the same character at the centre of it (and by extension, much the same supporting cast).  You cannot develop, i.e. "change," that character in every single game without them becoming an incredibly inconsistent character who believes or is forced to believe only what the story of that particular game forces him into.  That isn't a deep character - it's an incredibly shallow one and one which must eventually become totally unrecognisable as the original character.  You also have to bear in mind that, as a platformer series, unless Sonic gameplay fundamentally diverges from its roots (you might argue it already has, but that's by the by), a deep plotline is never going to be particularly suitable.  You don't want to interrupt the gameplay with cutscenes and dialogue that are especially long and convoluted.  It has to be expressed in a minimalistic way or introduced in another way (e.g. optional texts and dialogue in-level, or in-level dialogue handled like in Kid Icarus: Uprising where it rarely interrupts gameplay).

As such, I'd say that as far as character development goes in Sonic, there are two things to do.  One is that if characters aren't already in a state that exhibits the themes and messages that are important to the franchise, then you can spend a game or several on developing them to that point, and doing it subtly.  The other thing to do, when you have a character who because of the nature of their personality shouldn't change because it would contradict what the franchise is about (e.g. Sonic stopping being heroic, off the top of my head), then you spend the plot not in changing their character but in exhibiting their characteristics.  Remind us why Sonic is the hero, why Eggman is the villain.  That doesn't mean not challenging the character!  In fact, I would argue that forcing the character to actually exhibit the important facets of their personality is by definition a challenge to them, something that forces them to reveal their qualities rather than overcoming every obstacle easily.  But I think that suggesting that certain characters be filled with doubt about what they're doing could well be contrary to their identity as those characters - and worse yet would be proceeding to do that every single game.  Challenging every aspect of Sonic's identity and forcing him to confront failure every single game would be just as ludicrous and predictable as doing nothing with his character - perhaps even worse, in fact.

Unless you want to make another Sonic RPG - and I'd have no problem with that - then story and character in the games have to be underplayed, and not overwrought.  It's a platformer about a colourful cartoon hedgehog.  Know your limits and work within them.  Paint in broad strokes and leave the subtleties optional for those who want to discover them.

[Kuzu]

I think it's possible to overstate the importance of character development to the series.  What you have to remember is that we're dealing with a franchise that's intended to go on theoretically forever with the same character at the centre of it (and by extension, much the same supporting cast).  You cannot develop, i.e. "change," that character in every single game without them becoming an incredibly inconsistent character who believes or is forced to believe only what the story of that particular game forces him into.  That isn't a deep character - it's an incredibly shallow one and one which must eventually become totally unrecognisable as the original character.  You also have to bear in mind that, as a platformer series, unless Sonic gameplay fundamentally diverges from its roots (you might argue it already has, but that's by the by), a deep plotline is never going to be particularly suitable.  You don't want to interrupt the gameplay with cutscenes and dialogue that are especially long and convoluted.  It has to be expressed in a minimalistic way or introduced in another way (e.g. optional texts and dialogue in-level, or in-level dialogue handled like in Kid Icarus: Uprising where it rarely interrupts gameplay).

As such, I'd say that as far as character development goes in Sonic, there are two things to do.  One is that if characters aren't already in a state that exhibits the themes and messages that are important to the franchise, then you can spend a game or several on developing them to that point, and doing it subtly.  The other thing to do, when you have a character who because of the nature of their personality shouldn't change because it would contradict what the franchise is about (e.g. Sonic stopping being heroic, off the top of my head), then you spend the plot not in changing their character but in exhibiting their characteristics.  Remind us why Sonic is the hero, why Eggman is the villain.  That doesn't mean not challenging the character!  In fact, I would argue that forcing the character to actually exhibit the important facets of their personality is by definition a challenge to them, something that forces them to reveal their qualities rather than overcoming every obstacle easily.  But I think that suggesting that certain characters be filled with doubt about what they're doing could well be contrary to their identity as those characters - and worse yet would be proceeding to do that every single game.  Challenging every aspect of Sonic's identity and forcing him to confront failure every single game would be just as ludicrous and predictable as doing nothing with his character - perhaps even worse, in fact.

Unless you want to make another Sonic RPG - and I'd have no problem with that - then story and character in the games have to be underplayed, and not overwrought.  It's a platformer about a colourful cartoon hedgehog.  Know your limits and work within them.  Paint in broad strokes and leave the subtleties optional for those who want to discover them.

 

 

I can't say much due to class: But why do people keep associating "character development" with "Completely changing character forever?" I mean, for god's sake people, just because a character is fleshed out and can change somewhat doesn't mean their base character is suddenly gone forever. Hell, did Tails suddenly stop being Sonic's friend and sidekick after he learned to stand up on his own two feet, no he just became more confident with is abilities and him & Sonic started treated each other like equals, notice how none of that actually changed who Tails was, so I don't see how "Character Development" equates to "CHANGE CHARACTER FOREVER".

[Diogenes]

I think it's possible to overstate the importance of character development to the series.  What you have to remember is that we're dealing with a franchise that's intended to go on theoretically forever with the same character at the centre of it (and by extension, much the same supporting cast).  You cannot develop, i.e. "change," that character in every single game without them becoming an incredibly inconsistent character who believes or is forced to believe only what the story of that particular game forces him into.

Well if you take the "theoretically endless" perspective, we're pretty fucked either way, I think. But I also think you may be overstating the amount of change we're talking about. Obviously having a character radically shift every game isn't going to work, but if you don't have change and pressure and challenge, you get characters like Mario: fun and charming, yes, but you can't set any kind of story on him, in the best case (the RPGs) things just happen around him.

You also have to bear in mind that, as a platformer series, unless Sonic gameplay fundamentally diverges from its roots (you might argue it already has, but that's by the by), a deep plotline is never going to be particularly suitable.  You don't want to interrupt the gameplay with cutscenes and dialogue that are especially long and convoluted.  It has to be expressed in a minimalistic way or introduced in another way (e.g. optional texts and dialogue in-level, or in-level dialogue handled like in Kid Icarus: Uprising where it rarely interrupts gameplay).

I don't know about this. I don't think anyone wants MGS-length cutscenes, but I also don't think you need that to tell a good story. I think Sonic stories should always be fairly light, action-oriented entertainment; you don't need long, convoluted cutscenes because you're not trying to portray all the depth and nuance of human existence, you're telling an action story about colorful talking animals, and working a little bit harder to get some emotional resonance in there. I don't think they'd need to go too much further than the Adventure games did, as long as they used the cutscenes more efficiently.

But I think that suggesting that certain characters be filled with doubt about what they're doing could well be contrary to their identity as those characters - and worse yet would be proceeding to do that every single game.  Challenging every aspect of Sonic's identity and forcing him to confront failure every single game would be just as ludicrous and predictable as doing nothing with his character - perhaps even worse, in fact.

Yeah, see, I don't think anyone's suggesting they do this, though. Not every game needs to be a major life-altering, character-defining event to still challenge a character.

 

Like, how many major "arcs" has this series had? The games are self contained, and not counting every little spinoff or side game, you've got: 1, 2, 3&K, CD, SA, SA2, Heroes, '06, Unleashed, Colors, Generations. That's only ~11, in 20 years. Do you think that there's no shows or comics or whatever, that are well-written and have developing and growing characters that have gone on for that long? Do you think Sonic's character can't take on a dozen stories that challenge him and expand him without fundamentally changing what he is?

[Vertekins]

Secret Rings:

 

Prologue-Sonic gets told of the evil Erazor is causing and is recruited by Sonic to help stop him. Erazor confronts Sonic and gives him an ultimatum that he collects and delivers the world rings or he will die. So now Sonic is trying to save both the storybook world, and his own life.

 

 

This is correct.

 

 

Second Act- Sonic collects the World Rings...and that's it. He meets other versions of Tails, Knuckles, and Eggman tho....who don't do anything important to the plot. The game just kinda halts after we're told to collect the rings as nothing interesting happens. I mean Erazor summons the Ifrit...which didn't really have any consequence...so yeah.

 

Hoo boy. Lot's of important plot details that continue the plot, bulk it out and give sense to Sonic's and Shahra's moves missing here.

Let's see...

- Shahra advises Sonic to meet with King Shahryar as Erazor makes it is aim to "collect the life" of him in the same cutscene in which he curses Sonic with the flame arrow. This gives Sonic a reason to go through Sand Oasis and he consequently gets the first World Ring from the Sand Scorpion.

- Upon meeting King Shahryar, Erazor swoops down and kidnaps him on a Pterodactyl. Following said Pterodactyl leads the two through Dinosaur Jungle where they save the king and manage to attain the Green World Ring.

- The King tells Sonic and Shahra that Erazor is heading for Evil Foundry, compelling them to follow him.

- Sonic and Shahra find Erazor trying to summon the Ifrit from the lowest region of the Foundry, clearly his reason for having head there in the first place. Erazor's reasoning for summoning is elaborated-upon as he states that he summoned the Ifrit to expand on his dirty work by burning the rest of the pages. Because of the Ifrit's power and Sonic's elemental alignment shifting to fire, he cannot lay so much as a Homing Attack on it. Which compels him and Shahra to hurriedly find a method that can stop it or at least weaken it. Sonic weakens as the flame arrow reduces to half-size.

- Sonic saves Ali Baba who advises them on what they can do. Baba tells them that they ought to find Sinbad because he' wise and one of th world's adventurers. This compels them to go to Levitated Ruin on Shahra's magic carpet.

- Sonic and Shahra find Sinbad locked-up in Levitated Ruin, find the Blue World Ring, Shahra gives Sonic Erazor's disfigured lamp as a means of last resort (Sonic doesn't know what it is at this point) manage to break Sinbad free (He won't advise them until they do) and Sinbad tells them about the Water Blue Ring that was stolen by Pirates. This compels them to go to Pirate Storm to look for it.

- They get to Pirate Storm, beat the crap out of Bemoth and get the Water Blue Ring.

- Go back to the Ifrit and summon rain with the Ring which weakens it. He defeats it and gets a souvenir which he has to rush outside where it explodes and reveals the Red Ring. Sonic asks Shahra what their next route of action should be and she states that they should seek King Solomon as he was the person that stopped Erazor's prior attempt at domination.

- They go to Skeleton Dome, find Solomon turned into a skeleton and having had his bones scattered all over the place, go ahead and find the bones and deal with the 40 thieves which leads Sonic on to discover the White World Ring. They return to Solomon who advises them on how to deal with Erazor (Find his lamp) and where to find him as well as how to enter his stronghold with the White World Ring.

- They find Night Palace, Sonic opens the entry way and becomes even weaker as the curse has a noticeable effect on him. They find Erazor, Sonic beats him, he retreats to the throne room behind the door that can only be opened with the Rings.

- Then they attempt to find the final Purple Ring and succeed. When asked by Sonic, Shahra elaborates on Erazor's past and the way in which he views her. She is reluctant to reveal their connection and Sonic does not push her to reveal it.

 

 

Third Act- Erazor manages to get all of the World Rings, Shahra sacrifices herself to protect Sonic, and Erazor & Sonic duke it out for the fate of the storybook world. Sonic wins, Erazor is sealed. Handkerchiefs, whatever. Pretty nice ending, but there wasn't much in the middle.

 

 

There was a lot of stuff in the middle. All of the plot points fit together excellently. Sonic and Shahra have good reasons to go where they do and do what they do and their character interactions are genuine, realistic whether it be in cutscenes or speech in levels. Shahra's reluctance in leading Sonic on is clearly intentional as not only is it stated in certain cutscene selects in the Special Book that her expressions show that she's hiding something, it's even implied in the cutscenes themselves through her expressions. She's clearly ashamed of herself when she is about to hand the rings to Erazor;

 

 

Black Knight

Prologue- Sonic is once again called in to save a storybook and stop the Big Bad. Except...the Big Bad hasn't done anything, at all. Seriously, we're told "Arthur" is this evil tyrant who must be defeated, but does anyone even notice how he doesn't do anything at all antagonistic? Hell, why was he even chasing Merlina to begin with? Did he have any plan whatsoever? I mean the only thing he does is be a boss fight...and that's it. At least Erazor gave Sonic a reason to stop him.

 

Merlina is stated to be a wanted figure, hence why she remains in hiding when Sonic states that he's taking Caliburn to the Castle Town to be sharpened. It's not outside the realm of possibility that she was running because she was the only one who knew of his nature as that of an illusion or because he turned on his court. As stated in the ending, the knights of the round table are completely oblivious to Arthur's true nature as an illusion ("But to think...King Arthur..was but an illusion")

His summoning of Knights from the Underworld is what spreads his influence; They terrorise the populace, put them in the huge prisons and prison carriages seen in stages such as Crystal Cave and Great Megalith.

Arthur's story is stated by Merlina. Even though he was illusory, he was initially wise, kind and just. Nimue giving him the scabbard corrupted him. Even Nimue states that she feels it is her fault because she gave him the scabbard.

 

 

Second Act- Ok, so we're told we have to stop Arthur...because the game said so, and that we need to obtain the sacred swords to do so. Sonic then proceeds to kick the ass of Not!Shadow, Not!Knuckles, and Not!Blaze and get their blades....and that's it. Once again, nothing happens in the middle part. Sonic meets the Knights, they exchange a few words and then we don't hear from them again till the endgame. Not very exciting if I'm honest. Sonic kills the bland Knight, blah blah. There is a nice bit with Sonic & a kid tho, I liked that, story needed more moments like that.

 

Sonic's saving of the kids folks is an extremely important plot point. It furthers the story along by;

- Being instrumental to Sonic's development as a Knight as well as being a flawless portrayal of Sonic's attitude towards heroism, making Caliburn gradually warm to him and opening Nimue's eyes to Sonic's competence as a Knight and his just intentions.

and

- Motivates Nimue to reveal to him the method to blunt the power of Excalibur's scabbard and therefore stop Arthur from healing himself from the beatdown Sonic inflicts upon him, which would render the beatdown completely pointless as well as any attempts to even stop him. Which leads Sonic to find Percival and take her sword.

If Sonic didn't follow his feelings in helping the kid and therefore be advised by Nimue then he'd be up the creek without a paddle because he'd have had no direction. It was a fantastic secret test of character that intelligently lengthened the story, furthered Sonic's path to knighthood and gave him direction.

Sonic's prevention of Gawain killing himself and asking about there being more to a Knight than serving a king is again another very important plot point as it makes Gawain consider. Sonic's selfless rescue of Percival when she falls is again, another important plot point because it shows Caliburn Sonic's chivalry.

 

 

Third Act- So stuff finally begins to happen. Merlina betrays Sonic by revealing she was using him and plans on using the scabbard on tearing the kingdom apart.

 

"Tearing the kingdom apart"

No...not at all.

Merlina's intentions with the Scabbard were to benefit from it's immortality-bestowing properties to place the world in stasis so that it could not see it's eventual fall. Caliburn during the course of Knight's Passage states that her "High Ancient Magic" is what is causing this. The only thing Merlina destroys is the castle, remodelling it to her own preference.

 

 

Wait, why did Merlina betray Sonic again? Didn't she call him to save this place? Yeah, I know what you're gonna say "Well she wanted to save the kingdom", except nothing leads up to her betrayal at all, it's literally right the fuck outta nowhere and seems to exist just for the sake of it. It's like the writers forgot they needed a proper climax and just threw one in.

 

 

The ability to remain covert is of stupendous importance to someone who is manipulating someone else to play into their hands. Whilst Merlina's forlorn introspection with the flower when she wonders why Flowers bother to bloom when they are destined to wither is unassuming, by the end of the story, it enlightens Sonic to her views (He has a flashback to that scene just before the beatdown). It was subtle foreshadowing and proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the writer had it planned all along.

 

 

So yeah, swords, Merlina angsts about a Kingdom that we literally haven't been given anytime to care about. Seriously, did anyone give two shits about Camelot coming to an end? I mean why is it so bad? Why should we care beyond Merlina saying we should? Anyway, Merlina hands Sonic his ass and all hope seems lost......until another Dues Ex Machina conveniently save him. Anyway, yeah world is saved, Sonic is Arthur, the end.

 

 

Merlina adored her kingdom. She also clearly put her grandfather on the highest of pedestals and when he made his 'mistake' in creating the illusory Arthur, she wanted to succeed where he failed by doing something more than giving Camelot a ruler to ensure the realm's stability - She wanted to make it stable by making sure it will never change, never die. A kingdom that is riddled with knights of the underworld, without competent leadership and without the means to change would be hellish to the inhabitants. Sonic had an issue with it because it was in violation of natural laws and the right to be able to live life free and to the fullest despite inevitability of the end is, in his view, the only way to live. He took even more offense to it because it was the product of one-sided sadness, which he despises.

When Sonic transforms into Excalibur-Sonic, that came about believably. He had befriended the Knights and had won their swords. His determination rekindled Excalibur's long lost light. It's component swords were rejoined with it and because Sonic was the real king, he was the blade's true wielder. This is stated at one of the earliest points of the story in which Caliburn himself brands Sonic as "the chosen one" as he succeeded in pulling Caliburn free of the stone he was stuck in, which gave him legitimacy as the king.

 

There are only a couple of things that I can honestly fault about the Storybook's narratives. In SatSR, I personally found it a bit of a missed opportunity how the nature of the connection between Shahra and Erazor is never truly revealed, only hinted. It also also boggling how no mention is made of the flame arrow after Sonic reverts from Darkspine form. Surely the ending cutscene should've included a bit in which Sonic looks himself over for the arrow and finds that he no longer has it or at least give some reason for it's disappearance? i.e Darkspine form was the cure.

 

SatBK's ambiguity regarding Merlina mentioning about Gawain's and Lancelot's rift and Arthur being struck down by Mordred is not satisfactorily explained.

 

Edited March 7, 2013 by Vertekins

[Kuzu]

 

Hoo boy. Lot's of important plot details that continue the plot, bulk it out and give sense to Sonic's and Shahra's moves missing here.

Let's see...

- Shahra advises Sonic to meet with King Shahryar as Erazor makes it is aim to "collect the life" of him in the same cutscene in which he curses Sonic with the flame arrow. This gives Sonic a reason to go through Sand Oasis and he consequently gets the first World Ring from the Sand Scorpion.

- Upon meeting King Shahryar, Erazor swoops down and kidnaps him on a Pterodactyl. Following said Pterodactyl leads the two through Dinosaur Jungle where they save the king and manage to attain the Green World Ring.

- The King tells Sonic and Shahra that Erazor is heading for Evil Foundry, compelling them to follow him.

- Sonic and Shahra find Erazor trying to summon the Ifrit from the lowest region of the Foundry, clearly his reason for having head there in the first place. Erazor's reasoning for summoning is elaborated-upon as he states that he summoned the Ifrit to expand on his dirty work by burning the rest of the pages. Because of the Ifrit's power and Sonic's elemental alignment shifting to fire, he cannot lay so much as a Homing Attack on it. Which compels him and Shahra to hurriedly find a method that can stop it or at least weaken it. Sonic weakens as the flame arrow reduces to half-size.

- Sonic saves Ali Baba who advises them on what they can do. Baba tells them that they ought to find Sinbad because he' wise and one of th world's adventurers. This compels them to go to Levitated Ruin on Shahra's magic carpet.

- Sonic and Shahra find Sinbad locked-up in Levitated Ruin, find the Blue World Ring, Shahra gives Sonic Erazor's disfigured lamp as a means of last resort (Sonic doesn't know what it is at this point) manage to break Sinbad free (He won't advise them until they do) and Sinbad tells them about the Water Blue Ring that was stolen by Pirates. This compels them to go to Pirate Storm to look for it.

- They get to Pirate Storm, beat the crap out of Bemoth and get the Water Blue Ring.

- Go back to the Ifrit and summon rain with the Ring which weakens it. He defeats it and gets a souvenir which he has to rush outside where it explodes and reveals the Red Ring. Sonic asks Shahra what their next route of action should be and she states that they should seek King Solomon as he was the person that stopped Erazor's prior attempt at domination.

- They go to Skeleton Dome, find Solomon turned into a skeleton and having had his bones scattered all over the place, go ahead and find the bones and deal with the 40 thieves which leads Sonic on to discover the White World Ring. They return to Solomon who advises them on how to deal with Erazor (Find his lamp) and where to find him as well as how to enter his stronghold with the White World Ring.

- They find Night Palace, Sonic opens the entry way and becomes even weaker as the curse has a noticeable effect on him. They find Erazor, Sonic beats him, he retreats to the throne room behind the door that can only be opened with the Rings.

- Then they attempt to find the final Purple Ring and succeed. When asked by Sonic, Shahra elaborates on Erazor's past and the way in which he views her. She is reluctant to reveal their connection and Sonic does not push her to reveal it

 

Yes, but note how none of those events actually affect the plot beyond pointing Sonic in another direction on where to go, which you would have already been doing had the game not told you at all. There's no sense of urgency aside from when Sonic's flame begins to wither, which only starts becoming a problem right before they get to Night Palace, which by that point the game is already in it's climax.

 

What I'm referring to, there's no narrative obstacles Sonic has to overcome in the plot; The one obstacle here is, is the aforementioned, and before Night Palace, it's mostly mentioned in passing and doesn't really hinder Sonic at all beyond being a mild inconvenience.

 

 

 

 

There was a lot of stuff in the middle. All of the plot points fit together excellently. Sonic and Shahra have good reasons to go where they do and do what they do and their character interactions are genuine, realistic whether it be in cutscenes or speech in levels. Shahra's reluctance in leading Sonic on is clearly intentional as not only is it stated in certain cutscene selects in the Special Book that her expressions show that she's hiding something, it's even implied in the cutscenes themselves through her expressions. She's clearly ashamed of herself when she is about to hand the rings to Erazor;

 

This is where I think people get plot mixed up with characterization, the two can sometimes overlap, but they're also distinct from each other as well. What you're describing is characterization and how it affects the plot, and I'm not disagreeing with this, Secret RIngs had some pretty nice characterization but that's not the point I was making. My point is that the way Secret Rings handles it's plot(Read: how the story is presented, not characterization) is pretty boring from a narrative point of view because it lacks a proper buildup to it's climax. The setup is good enough and establishes the protagonists and antagonists well, but then entire plot before the climax just comes to a halt as nothing of much consequence happens and you're just going through obligatory levels.

 

 

 

Merlina is stated to be a wanted figure, hence why she remains in hiding when Sonic states that he's taking Caliburn to the Castle Town to be sharpened. It's not outside the realm of possibility that she was running because she was the only one who knew of his nature as that of an illusion or because he turned on his court. As stated in the ending, the knights of the round table are completely oblivious to Arthur's true nature as an illusion ("But to think...King Arthur..was but an illusion")

His summoning of Knights from the Underworld is what spreads his influence; They terrorise the populace, put them in the huge prisons and prison carriages seen in stages such as Crystal Cave and Great Megalith.

Arthur's story is stated by Merlina. Even though he was illusory, he was initially wise, kind and just. Nimue giving him the scabbard corrupted him. Even Nimue states that she feels it is her fault because she gave him the scabbard.

Yes, but how much of this was actually shown in the game, and not told via word of mouth? Yes, we're told most of the events you described took place but we, the audience, never actually see any of it unfold. We're never told why Merlina is wanted, we're never shown how Arthur's influence is ruining the kingdom(outside of obligatory levels anyway), and we're never shown Nimue giving Arthur the scabbard, or how it came to corrupt him in the first place.

 

 

Sonic's saving of the kids folks is an extremely important plot point. It furthers the story along by;

- Being instrumental to Sonic's development as a Knight as well as being a flawless portrayal of Sonic's attitude towards heroism, making Caliburn gradually warm to him and opening Nimue's eyes to Sonic's competence as a Knight and his just intentions.

and

- Motivates Nimue to reveal to him the method to blunt the power of Excalibur's scabbard and therefore stop Arthur from healing himself from the beatdown Sonic inflicts upon him, which would render the beatdown completely pointless as well as any attempts to even stop him. Which leads Sonic to find Percival and take her sword.

If Sonic didn't follow his feelings in helping the kid and therefore be advised by Nimue then he'd be up the creek without a paddle because he'd have had no direction. It was a fantastic secret test of character that intelligently lengthened the story, furthered Sonic's path to knighthood and gave him direction.

Sonic's prevention of Gawain killing himself and asking about there being more to a Knight than serving a king is again another very important plot point as it makes Gawain consider. Sonic's selfless rescue of Percival when she falls is again, another important plot point because it shows Caliburn Sonic's chivalry.

 

And I did say I liked that moment did I not, I just wish the plot had more moments like this as it probably would have fleshed it out more.

 

"Tearing the kingdom apart"

No...not at all.

Merlina's intentions with the Scabbard were to benefit from it's immortality-bestowing properties to place the world in stasis so that it could not see it's eventual fall. Caliburn during the course of Knight's Passage states that her "High Ancient Magic" is what is causing this. The only thing Merlina destroys is the castle, remodelling it to her own preference.

That's kinda beside the point, I was just stating actions are finally being taken.

 

The ability to remain covert is of stupendous importance to someone who is manipulating someone else to play into their hands. Whilst Merlina's forlorn introspection with the flower when she wonders why Flowers bother to bloom when they are destined to wither is unassuming, by the end of the story, it enlightens Sonic to her views (He has a flashback to that scene just before the beatdown). It was subtle foreshadowing and proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the writer had it planned all along.

 

They might have planned it, but I still believe they should have had Merlina be a bit more prominent to properly foreshadow her instead of just disappearing and then coming back to betray everyone with only one moment to go on for foreshadowing.

 

Merlina adored her kingdom. She also clearly put her grandfather on the highest of pedestals and when he made his 'mistake' in creating the illusory Arthur, she wanted to succeed where he failed by doing something more than giving Camelot a ruler to ensure the realm's stability - She wanted to make it stable by making sure it will never change, never die. A kingdom that is riddled with knights of the underworld, without competent leadership and without the means to change would be hellish to the inhabitants. Sonic had an issue with it because it was in violation of natural laws and the right to be able to live life free and to the fullest despite inevitability of the end is, in his view, the only way to live. He took even more offense to it because it was the product of one-sided sadness, which he despises.

When Sonic transforms into Excalibur-Sonic, that came about believably. He had befriended the Knights and had won their swords. His determination rekindled Excalibur's long lost light. It's component swords were rejoined with it and because Sonic was the real king, he was the blade's true wielder. This is stated at one of the earliest points of the story in which Caliburn himself brands Sonic as "the chosen one" as he succeeded in pulling Caliburn free of the stone he was stuck in, which gave him legitimacy as the king.

 

Like I said, it's more of a plot thing than a characterization thing.

 

There are only a couple of things that I can honestly fault about the Storybook's narratives. In SatSR, I personally found it a bit of a missed opportunity how the nature of the connection between Shahra and Erazor is never truly revealed, only hinted. It also also boggling how no mention is made of the flame arrow after Sonic reverts from Darkspine form. Surely the ending cutscene should've included a bit in which Sonic looks himself over for the arrow and finds that he no longer has it or at least give some reason for it's disappearance? i.e Darkspine form was the cure.

 

SatBK's ambiguity regarding Merlina mentioning about Gawain's and Lancelot's rift and Arthur being struck down by Mordred is not satisfactorily explained.

 

 

This is what I'm referring to, all of those are plot points that should have been fleshed out; it adds to the story and makes it a much more satisfactory experience. I'm not saying the storybook games are terrible stories because as I said, they have some wonderful characterization but that it's actual plotting is pretty poor from a narrative point of view.

 

 

I know the Adventure games get a lot of flak around here for various reasons, but for the most part they at least knew how to tell a story properly and flesh out it's plot even if the actual writing wasn't very good.