Story in Sonic Games-How we want it

[Kuzu]

I do wish the story for Generations is good, I really do its the 20th anniversary game so they have to at least try. I keep seeing all these PR's about how the story is light and it gets me worried that they aren't going to even try to make it decent, doing the same exact thing they did in Colors: Have Sonic tell some unfunny joke, with little to no narrative at all, boring.

[pppp]

I do wish the story for Generations is good, I really do its the 20th anniversary game so they have to at least try. I keep seeing all these PR's about how the story is light and it gets me worried that they aren't going to even try to make it decent, doing the same exact thing they did in Colors: Have Sonic tell some unfunny joke, with little to no narrative at all, boring.

Geez,aren't Sonic Stories allowed to be comedies? Besides saying there was no effort in Colors' story is unfair,At least the story didn't have plotholes that you could drive trucks through like 06 or ShtH

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Geez,aren't Sonic Stories allowed to be comedies?

Who said it wasn't? Because I know damn well that Shadic93 didn't imply that.

Besides saying there was no effort in Colors' story is unfair,At least the story didn't have plotholes that you could drive trucks through like 06 or ShtH

ShTH didn't have any plotholes at all, even despite how bad the plot was. It was way more thought out than Heroes and Sonic 06.

And Colors really didn't have any effort. That's not saying that it's bad, but that it could use with some more suspenseful and more intense elements to make it enjoyable as a story. It's plot has a point, so it should try to deliver it in ways that make you feel more engaged to play through it.

The way the did it in Colors was lacking. Enjoyable, but lacking.

Edited August 9, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

Geez,aren't Sonic Stories allowed to be comedies? Besides saying there was no effort in Colors' story is unfair,At least the story didn't have plotholes that you could drive trucks through like 06 or ShtH

It only counts as a comedy if its actually funny. The story did have plot holes, Yacker disappears half way through the game and no explanation is given for it, and then he shows up at the end without any explanation, I mean what the hell, did the writers forget he was apart of the story or something.

Its an Action-Adventure series, not a gag one. The plot shouldn't be nothing but bad puns and lame one liners, those are good occasionally when its appropriate but they shouldn't dominate the entire game.

[pppp]

It only counts as a comedy if its actually funny.

Just because you didn't find them funny doesn't mean no one else does,whether something is funny or not is subjective.I loved every single joke in Colors. And before you say that i laugh at any crappy joke let me tell you that my favorite comedy is Dr. Strangelove,the smartest comedy ever made. You want to know what's an immature joke? Watch Michael Bay movies

[Kuzu]

Just because you didn't find them funny doesn't mean no one else does,whether something is funny or not is subjective.I loved every single joke in Colors. And before you say that i laugh at any crappy joke let me tell you that my favorite comedy is Dr. Strangelove,the smartest comedy ever made. You want to know what's an immature joke? Watch Michael Bay movies

That's good for you, doesn't change the fact that Colors` story sucks.

[sonfan1984]

I do wish the story for Generations is good, I really do its the 20th anniversary game so they have to at least try. I keep seeing all these PR's about how the story is light and it gets me worried that they aren't going to even try to make it decent, doing the same exact thing they did in Colors: Have Sonic tell some unfunny joke, with little to no narrative at all, boring.

The story can be light but that doesn't mean it will be the same exact way like what they did with Colors. Generations looks like it will be a much bigger game both in content and story.

Edited August 9, 2011 by sonfan1984

[KHCast]

Just because you didn't find them funny doesn't mean no one else does,whether something is funny or not is subjective.I loved every single joke in Colors. And before you say that i laugh at any crappy joke let me tell you that my favorite comedy is Dr. Strangelove,the smartest comedy ever made. You want to know what's an immature joke? Watch Michael Bay movies

I kind of have to agree with Shadic. the game was aimed towards kids thus using pretty corny humor.(although there were a few that made me laugh) Plus I don't think he's trying to make it fact that no one finds it funny. by the way using the same thing you said to him not everyone has to think it's funny. It's a opinion whether or not you found it funny.

That's good for you, doesn't change the fact that Colors` story sucks.

At you Shadic you can think it sucks but to others it might be enjoyable. It comes of dickish when you say it like that. just sayin'. Although I found it's plot weak.

The story can be light but that doesn't mean it will be the same way like what they did with Colors. Generations looks like it will be much a bigger game both in content and story.

Yeah, again lets not forget that colors was aimed towards children giving them a "excuse" to give a lackluster story. This is being aimed towards there older fans AND newer fans so the plot could be a mix of the two plots(unleashed and colors). I think it will take a more serious epic tone.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Hedgehogs Boost

[Kuzu]

The story can be light but that doesn't mean it will be the same exact way like what they did with Colors. Generations looks like it will be a much bigger game both in content and story.

Yeah, but when they say light story that worries me that they're going to ignore important plot points for the sake of a gag, which is what I wanna avoid or downplay the plot for the sake of a corny joke. I'm a bit more skeptical than usual because its an anniversary game.

At you Shadic you can think it sucks but to others it might be enjoyable. It comes of dickish when you say it like that. just sayin'. Although I found it's plot weak.

It might be enjoyable but that doesn't mean it fills the requirements for a story. It has no progression when it comes to plot, none of the cutscenes are connected in anyway, plot points are either ignored or downplayed for the sake of humor.

And before someone misunderstands me, I enjoyed Colors, a lot , but that doesn't mean its plot was good.

[DC111]

Nobody said Sonic stories couldn't have comedy, but why the hell should having comedy mean they CAN'T have anything else?

[Tori Himemiya]

I would like Sega to write a plot, a conflict for the blue blur, and a good climax.

That's all.

[Kuzu]

I figured since there are probably a million story topics on this board already, I figured I may as well bump this one since it kinda comes the closest to what I wanna talk about.

 

 

Basically, this isn't so much a "What type of Story we want" question, but asking. What is everyone's opinion on the narrative of the series? And by narrative, I'm not talking about the characters or their actions, but how the plots are told, structured, and how interesting they are. Basically, what is the story of Sonic to you?

[Spin Attaxx]

For me, the core principal of a story in a Sonic game is Sonic and his friends fighting to stop Dr. Eggman from taking over the world and building Eggmanland.

 

So Sonic is the most important hero and Eggman is the most prominent villain.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

you I have wondered if perhaps that is a slight weakness of the series, in the main entries, when is the last time you have had a main villian against sonic? mario has had one nice thing is that they have mixed up the formula once or twice, whereas other than in spinoffs(Shadow the hedgehog, sonic chronicles) the main enemy has been eggman, only other exception is pehaps Sonic 06? wouldnt really know as I have never played through that

[Diogenes]

Basically, this isn't so much a "What type of Story we want" question, but asking. What is everyone's opinion on the narrative of the series? And by narrative, I'm not talking about the characters or their actions, but how the plots are told, structured, and how interesting they are. Basically, what is the story of Sonic to you?

What is it? At this point, not much. Sonic=Good, Eggman=Bad, Sonic fights Eggman, and there is A Complication (probably a monster of some sort), which Sonic solves (probably by going Super and beating it up).

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Where do I start...

 

Modern Era Stories it is!

 

1) Pacing. Modern stories have the same issue: Good beginning and ending, nothing of note in the middle/body. Any plot development, twists, character interaction that could have been in there are either one note, underused, or simply not there at all. Colors at least has something resembling a middle, but even then it's still pretty underdeveloped and frankly could have been done better. Unleashed is roughly in the same fix, and Generations doesn't have anything to speak of.

 

Overall: Colors > Unleashed > Generations.

 

2) Plot development either rushed or simply dropped off a cliff. New potential plot points are brought up, then not used at all. Colors is a particularly big example, with the possibilities involving interaction with the wisps, the potential tension between Tails and Sonic regarding Eggman's "change of heart" (even though it's blatantly obvious he didn't change at all), and the whole "Tails gets Mind Controlled and Sonic must fight him". What becomes of those possibilities? Absolutely NOTHING.

 

On the other stick, there is the plot developments feeling rushed or completed too quickly. This is the case with Unleashed, especially regarding the Werehog and Chip's Memories, and also ties into the previous point of there being no "middle" to speak of. You have great plot points established at the beginning, then nothing of note happens to build on said plot points for the majority of the game, and then a hasty resolution at the end that, while not bad by any means, ends up feeling like a lot more could have been done.

 

On that note, From best to worst: Unleashed = Colors > Generations.

 

3) Plot points drag on for too long. This example is PARTICULARLY BAD with Colors, especially with the whole "what is Eggman doing with those aliens?" shtick that ran on for almost 5 levels until Asteroid Coaster. Seriously, nearly every cutscene that didn't involve some kind of translator joke or Sonic trash talking one of the bosses, always involved the main characters asking in some form or fashion : "OMG WHAT IS EGGMAN DOING WITH THOSE ALIENS HURDYHURR?". Here's a thought: stop dragging out the question and just SHOW ME ALREADY. Unleashed had the same issue with the whole "What is Chip's real identity?" thing, but it was barely noticeable by comparison because there were very few cutscenes to pad out the question/plot point (or any story for that matter, but that's more to do with my second point, so yeah), and the cutscenes that did exist in the middle were mostly focused on what EGGMAN was doing to advance his end of the story (how well he did is up for grabs, but at least it was something).

 

Overall: Unleashed > Colors in this regard. Generations doesn't count because it has no plot point to drag out in the first place.

 

I'd go on further, but I'm having a mental block at the moment.

Edited March 3, 2013 by 743-E.D. Missile

[Emmett L. Brown]

I think even with the mundanity of "Sonic Fights Eggman To Save The World!" you can still have a nice B-plot. Take Sonic Rush, for example. The main story is that Eggman has teamed up with his other-dimensional counterpart to destroy the world and create a new world to rule as he sees fit. The secondary story is Blaze learning about trust, friendship, and teamwork. It's a completely unoriginal plot we've seen a million times, but for a handheld platformer aimed at the younger generation it works well.

 

Same deal with Sonic Unleashed. You've got your A Plot with Eggman unleashing Dark Gaia in a roundabout scheme to build Eggmanland (which totally works - go figure), and your B Plot about Sonic and Chip making friends and actually having some really nice character development moments (I personally enjoyed the revelation of why Sonic is mentally unaffected by Dark Gaia's influence).

 

I think one of the shortcomings of Sonic Generations is that it had little to no B Plot to speak of. Neither the Sonics nor the Tails really have any kind of character development, which they kinda ought to in light of meeting their past/future selves. Classic Sonic trying a homing dash doesn't really count.

[Chaos Incarnate]

Sonic unleashed is the sort of story I always expect to come out of a sonic story. Basically, a balanced blend of cartoony, light hearted fun, and a bit of darkness as well. I like encountering a threatening villain that raises the stakes to save the world. I wouldn't mind another adventure 2 story, but with close attention to removing plot holes, and maybe take itself a tad bit less seriously.

[Cambot]

If I were writing, I'd take what Unleashed did and throw it out the fucking window. I'm sorry, I'm gonna piss some people off, but I honestly think that Unleashed's storyline was almost as bad (and worse in some aspects!) as Sonic Next-Gen's. The only parts I liked were the intro and the scene with Sonic talking to Light Gaia on the dock.

 

First up, the Werehog. We've been complaining for years about how his gameplay wasn't fun, but the way he's pushed into the story kinda sucks too. Okay, so there's this energy sucking machine that drains Super Sonic's power...then Eggman fires a laser at the planet, and...somehow Sonic transforms into a werewolf? Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeak.

Second, Eggman's genius fluctuates throughout the story.
 

One cutscene: Creates device that can suck Super Sonic's power
Later on: While Sonic chases him in Mazuri, Eggman asks, "How did you get here so quickly?"

Third, my biggest complaint, the inconsistent tone. In what was supposed to be a serious story about the planet splitting into pieces, we have a flying dog that likes chocolate, a sassy robot (who I did admittedly like), and a professor whose character is defined by cucumber sandwiches. The tone seems to shift from serious to light-hearted to serious to light-hearted, et cetera. Even in the same cutscene it can happen! I have said before that I like light-hearted Sonic stories better, but if you're gonna add in some drama, at least don't go back and forth on whether we should feel urgency or humor. Say what you want about Sonic Colors, but at least that game's story was more consistent.

Fourth: Another Eggman-looking-for-magical-creature-to-take-over-world story. Seen it. Give Generations' Eggman (or Eggmen) some credit, at least they managed to TAME Time Eater.

Fifth, what was the point of the Tornado getting shot down at the end?! Sonic doesn't find out about it, Tails repairs the thing off-screen, so...POINTLESS! What do they call these moments? Oh, yeah...A BIG-LIPPED ALLIGATOR MOMENT!!!

Sixth, the ending. Sonic gets thrown back to the surface, Light Gaia fades into the earth again, gives Sonic a bracelet, Tails flies by in the Tornado, and he and Sonic race off into the sunset. To paraphrase Todd in the Shadows...Substance?! Originality?! What is this bullshit? That bullshit's for the birds, you vulture! We'd rather go with mushy, sappy prose instead! "Ooh, they're still the best of friends, even though they barely interacted in the game at all and Chip/Light Gaia stole much of Tails' screentime! I said feel happy, damn it!" No. Unlike many people, I do not fall for this kind of thing. I guess that's part of the reason that Wall-E is my least favorite movie of all time.

 

So there you go. I know, Colors' story wasn't perfect, but I'll take it over that piece of crap.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Cambot

[Diogenes]

I think one of the shortcomings of Sonic Generations is that it had little to no B Plot to speak of.

The game barely even had an A Plot.

First up, the Werehog. We've been complaining for years about how his gameplay wasn't fun, but the way he's pushed into the story kinda sucks too. Okay, so there's this energy sucking machine that drains Super Sonic's power...then Eggman fires a laser at the planet, and...somehow Sonic transforms into a werewolf? Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeak.

He was corrupted by dark energy, the strength of which ebbs and flows with day and night. What's the problem?

Second, Eggman's genius fluctuates throughout the story.

One cutscene: Creates device that can suck Super Sonic's power

Later on: While Sonic chases him in Mazuri, Eggman asks, "How did you get here so quickly?"

Yes, and?

Third, my biggest complaint, the inconsistent tone. In what was supposed to be a serious story about the planet splitting into pieces, we have a flying dog that likes chocolate, a sassy robot (who I did admittedly like), and a professor whose character is defined by cucumber sandwiches. The tone seems to shift from serious to light-hearted to serious to light-hearted, et cetera. Even in the same cutscene it can happen! I have said before that I like light-hearted Sonic stories better, but if you're gonna add in some drama, at least don't go back and forth on whether we should feel urgency or humor. Say what you want about Sonic Colors, but at least that game's story was more consistent.

Maybe the story wasn't as serious as you thought it was. And/or, maybe a story can handle having a range of tones.

and Chip/Light Gaia stole much of Tails' screentime!

Oh fuckin' cry about it. Anyone that seriously complains about this didn't understand what the game was doing.

[Nepenthe]

First up, the Werehog. We've been complaining for years about how his gameplay wasn't fun, but the way he's pushed into the story kinda sucks too. Okay, so there's this energy sucking machine that drains Super Sonic's power...then Eggman fires a laser at the planet, and...somehow Sonic transforms into a werewolf? Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeak.

 

There is no "somehow;" it's blatantly explained in the narrative and exposition.

 

Second, Eggman's genius fluctuates throughout the story.

 

You want to talk about ingenuity: Eggman wastes what little Hyper-Go On energy he inflicted Tails with monologuing instead of using Tails to bash Sonic's face in, because it was blatantly shown that Sonic would not go through his friend to get to him. Why did he let that moment go exactly? Or what about placing the containers of the stored energy being used for the park in an arena where a boss was located instead of out of the way, or at least not making sure they were significantly reinforced so they couldn't get punctured and explode, causing a park-destroying and potentially world-ending black hole? In fact, why did you leave the keys in the space elevator and allow Sonic and Tails to even get up there in the first place?

(Pro-tip: There isn't a single game where Eggman has not displayed some egregious error in common sense. It's a flaw necessitated by the way the games need to work.)

 

Third, my biggest complaint, the inconsistent tone. In what was supposed to be a serious story about the planet splitting into pieces, we have a flying dog that likes chocolate, a sassy robot (who I did admittedly like), and a professor whose character is defined by cucumber sandwiches. The tone seems to shift from serious to light-hearted to serious to light-hearted, et cetera. Even in the same cutscene it can happen! I have said before that I like light-hearted Sonic stories better, but if you're gonna add in some drama, at least don't go back and forth on whether we should feel urgency or humor. Say what you want about Sonic Colors, but at least that game's story was more consistent.

 

You'll be hard-pressed to find a beloved story that doesn't "fluctuate" in tone, mainly because most people generally agree the best stories out there juggle different high and low emotions for different story points. A work can both be sad and happy. As a result, "consistency" is not a virtue inherently worth beholding in storytelling, and having it doesn't mean your story is better than one that doesn't.

 

Fourth: Another Eggman-looking-for-magical-creature-to-take-over-world story. Seen it. Give Generations' Eggman (or Eggmen) some credit, at least they managed to TAME Time Eater.

 

And it amounts to nothing more than a narmy moment for the rest of the cast and an awful boss fight, which is exacerbated by the fact that Time Eater isn't really a character or concept worth expounding on on its own or within the world it resides in. At least Dark Gaia is inherently made more relevant through the way the universe functions around its presence, and the opposing qualities he has with one of the main characters of the game.

But at the end of the day, there's nothing unpredictable about any kind of final boss directly involving Eggman, because every final boss ultimately functions the same way: Extreme Big Bad that will be taken down by tiny hedgehog and friends.

 

Fifth, what was the point of the Tornado getting shot down at the end?! Sonic doesn't find out about it, Tails repairs the thing off-screen, so...POINTLESS! What do they call these moments? Oh, yeah...A BIG-LIPPED ALLIGATOR MOMENT!!!

 

What was the point of Yacker disappearing again?

 

Sixth, the ending. Sonic gets thrown back to the surface, Light Gaia fades into the earth again, gives Sonic a bracelet, Tails flies by in the Tornado, and he and Sonic race off into the sunset. To paraphrase Todd in the Shadows...Substance?! Originality?! What is this bullshit? That bullshit's for the birds, you vulture! We'd rather go with mushy, sappy prose instead! "Ooh, they're still the best of friends, even though they barely interacted in the game at all and Chip/Light Gaia stole much of Tails' screentime! I said feel happy, damn it!" No. Unlike many people, I do not fall for this kind of thing. I guess that's part of the reason that Wall-E is my least favorite movie of all time.

 

There is no Sonic game without a happy ending, and some are even more egregious in their implications, such as SA1 for example. And how can Chip steal the spotlight from a character when his role was impossible to fill by any existing cast member?

 

So there you go. I know, Colors' story wasn't perfect, but I'll take it over that piece of crap.

 

Colors story not being perfect is the understatement of the year because it barely has a narrative in the first place, and Generations is even worse in that department. As I said before, I don't understand how anyone can simultaneously care for the extended cast and lore of the universe and then actively cheer on stories where none of it is actually used to any degree worth applauding. It's irony of the highest order.

[Tani Coyote]

The core of the story is Eggman masterminds some new plot and Sonic (and a varying collection of friends) have to defeat him. This is the key point; Eggman's been at the forefront for so long you can't really hope to have him rotate out with other villains, as some franchises can do.

Eggman himself should remain comedically buffoonish at times, yet nonetheless threatening where possible. He shouldn't be a joke like AoStH Robotnik, nor always dark and creepy like SatAM Robotnik. Mike Pollock's voice also lends itself to using him as a comedic villain.

While I haven't liked the lack of meat to the recent stories, I am glad Eggman finally is no longer getting his plots hijacked by a random monster and remains in control all the way to the end. Also glad they're finally reducing the use of Super Sonic; it helps keep things a bit fresh.

As for an actual story I prefer a deeper one. I want to see the characters interact more and see their relationships without it being like an anvil being dropped on one's head. Colors had a good idea demonstrating Sonic's fierce loyalty to Tails, but unfortunately it wasn't expanded on much. I liked SA2's story very much because of the emotion it could bring out in me (Shadow dying still gets me even though I know the truth), whereas to me Sonic 06's story just became so confusing I couldn't really care for any of the characters or developments.

When in doubt, however, Sonic should generally remain the bright and optimistic sort. I kind of like the idea of a serious story with Sonic remaining playful and childish about it, which helps show his contrast to the more dark and serious Shadow.

I wouldn't mind Sonic showing anger or sadness provided it's brief and well-provoked. He is overall a positive person, and should keep this up for everyone else's sake.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[SenEDDtor Missile]

The core of the story is Eggman masterminds some new plot and Sonic (and a varying collection of friends) have to defeat him. This is the key point; Eggman's been at the forefront for so long you can't really hope to have him rotate out with other villains, as some franchises can do.

 

Pardon my language, but I think this is fucking bullshit. Yeah it's nice to make sure you always have a central villain and all, but I don't think it's an excuse to NEVER rotate villains every once in a while to keep things fresh. There is only so much Eggman can do in terms of villainy without somehow molding his character into something else entirely, so having more villains on hand to provide fresh and different types of villainy is very helpful.

[Tani Coyote]

Pardon my language, but I think this is fucking bullshit. Yeah it's nice to make sure you always have a central villain and all, but I don't think it's an excuse to NEVER rotate villains every once in a while to keep things fresh. There is only so much Eggman can do in terms of villainy without somehow molding his character into something else entirely, so having more villains on hand to provide fresh and different types of villainy is very helpful.

 

While I'm not opposed to such, at this point in the series it would seem well, a bit forced. He's more or less been the main villain (up until the end of the story) for going on 22 years. If they were going to go like James Bond and have various antagonists instead of one, they should've started earlier.

 

Granted I wouldn't mind a story where Sonic fights some other villain and then the plot is hijacked by Eggman Ganondorf-style. Would be an ironic twist on the fact he's so used to having that happen to him.

[Salamander]

As argued above, the plots need middles. Make what you're doing between the opening and final boss actually matter to the development of the plot rather than just having an excuse that's not related to the gameplay at all (in no level in Unleashed, Colours, or Generations do you approach or enter a Gaia Temple, approach or attack a transmitter thingy, or restore life and colour to a level). Preferably use multiple "middles" in which every level accomplishes something that subsequently directs you to the next level for a meaningful reason. This would be helped if what you do in levels actually meant something to the story rather than the cutscenes having nothing to do with why you're running about frantically.