Story in Sonic Games-How we want it

[Kuzu]

The storybooks games still didn't do much or hardly anything for Tails characterization, though.

Well Tails wasn't a main character in neither storybook game so you really can't say much on that...actually before Colors, Tails wasn't really doing much of anything, so Colors was like a godsend considering before he was no better than a minor character given his lack of focus.

[theadvisor1234]

Well Tails wasn't a main character in neither storybook game so you really can't say much on that...actually before Colors, Tails wasn't really doing much of anything, so Colors was like a godsend considering before he was no better than a minor character given his lack of focus.

Indeed, Colors made him somewhat useful again, though there is still lots of room for improvement. I could say that about a lot of the main characters.

[Kuzu]

Indeed, Colors made him somewhat useful again, though there is still lots of room for improvement. I could say that about a lot of the main characters.

They can start by actually making him playable again for starters. But I'm satisfied with him finally being relevant again, I just hope he along with most of the cast don't get moved aside for Classic Sonic, who seems to be filling the same role Chip/Caliburn/Shahra, I mean I liked how in Colors that despite Yacker being something of the focal point of the plot, Tails wasn't pushed aside in favor of him.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

The storybooks games still didn't do much or hardly anything for Tails characterization, though.

Tails has really just been cycling between being Sonic's chauffeur and being completely pointless for the past how many ever games. The last game I remember where he was of actual importance beyond being Mr. Fix-It was SA2. In Unleashed, for example, if Sonic could fly the Tornado then I think Tails would lose all relevance.

I hope one day Tails can really move beyond "Sonic's friend" and into a character all his own. But that day may be a long, long time coming.

[Kuzu]

Tails has really just been cycling between being Sonic's chauffeur and being completely pointless for the past how many ever games. The last game I remember where he was of actual importance beyond being Mr. Fix-It was SA2. In Unleashed, for example, if Sonic could fly the Tornado then I think Tails would lose all relevance.

I hope one day Tails can really move beyond "Sonic's friend" and into a character all his own. But that day may be a long, long time coming.

Tails is already his own character, that became fact after Sa1, the problem is he isn't given enough focus beyond being the smart one nowadays and this a plague that's ruining the characters.

[theadvisor1234]

For Tails, I say let him have his mechanical abilities, and let him be gifted in flying abilities, but also, keep him a kid. Give him those insecurities that boys his age would have. Maybe he feels like he will never make a difference like Sonic. Maybe he just doesn't want to be that kid that is stuck in his workshop. Just make him a kid.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Tails is already his own character, that became fact after Sa1, the problem is he isn't given enough focus beyond being the smart one nowadays and this a plague that's ruining the characters.

He quickly became flanderized following SA2, though, which was where my concern was. Thanks for catching that though, i wasn't sure if I was being clear enough. Gotta pick my words better.

Just make him a kid.

Precisely.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Soma

[Dark Qiviut]

I don't care how I want it. Lighthearted, serious, a mixture, darkly funny, I don't care. Give me a good, well-executed, well-planned story with great characterization and storytelling that feels like it belongs and not like a bare-boned afterthought. The plots of S3&K, Adventure, Adventure 2, Unleashed HD, Black Knight, and Colors Wii (Eggman's side only) were well-written, and their tones varied.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Dark Qiviut

[Kuzu]

He quickly became flanderized following SA2, though, which was where my concern was. Thanks for catching that though, i wasn't sure if I was being clear enough. Gotta pick my words better.

Flanderization seems to be a common aliment of this series, I mean it seems like its recovering aside from a couple of road bumps(Sonic Colors).

[DC111]

What bothers me is Sega's sudden determination to go light on story with the excuse of 'focusing more on gameplay.' They're two completely different things, and two different groups of people work on them. Going light on story is NOT a reflection of putting more focus into gameplay. It's not a valid reason.

Keep in mind that light is different from lighthearted. I could care less whether a story is lighthearted or serious business or somewhere in between, as long as it's done right and the characters are kept in character. But light? Sonic stories haven't been 'light' since Sonic games started telling a story. And if I remember correctly, Iizuka first joined Sonic Team because he wanted to tell a story.

Takashi Iizuka: From a young age as a child I really enjoyed drawing and I used to draw Manga and staple the pages together and create my own little Manga book. So I really enjoyed coming up with new stories and the whole process of creating a Manga. I actually moved away from this for a time and during University I thought to myself I want to be in a job where I’m creating something and a story. That’s why I joined the games industry.

I don't want Sonic stories to be light, and I have a hard time feeling sympathy for people who do... (Again, I'm not talking about lighthearted vs. serious, I'm talking light vs. involved)... because if you don't want Sonic games to have a story, you can skip cutscenes. But those of us who DO want a story can't un-skip a cutscene that doesn't exist.

The Sonic franchise takes a lot of turns based on what it thinks fans want. Quite frankly, I can't wait until this light-story, no-characters bullshit is over. Something as plot-involved even as Unleashed would please me, because they weren't FORCING a story to be light. I want them to do what they have to do to tie up plot elements, provide us with some character interaction, make me care about what's going on and about the characters. I want a plot that feels like an adventure, with humor and depth that work together to give the story a balanced feel. Given how much effort Sega is putting into everything lately, I don't think it's impossible for them to do the same with story, especially considering the new writers. Is it that much to ask?

Also, this:

I always looked at depth and comedy as elements rather than sides of a spectrum, and it'd be nice to have both instead of having one over the other.

and this:

I've discussed Sonic storylines a million times, and my take on them is tipically that I want a "good story", and it's not whether the plot is more geared towards light-heartedness or drama that makes a "good story", it's good writing and full-fledged characters that do.

But that paragraph made me realize that I also expect Sonic's unique "family friendly badassery" in the game plots (that's why, for example, the bare bones story of Colors does nothing for me).

I never stopped to consider how scarce the competition is in terms of E-rated epic tales, that really makes it a big defining feature for the Sonic series, all the more reason to emphasize storytelling as opposed to shrinking it to a minimum, which seems to be the direction Sega is currently taking the franchise in.

Edited August 8, 2011 by DC111

[Neon]

What bothers me is Sega's sudden determination to go light on story with the excuse of 'focusing more on gameplay.' They're two completely different things, and two different groups of people work on them. Going light on story is NOT a reflection of putting more focus into gameplay. It's not a valid reason.

Keep in mind that light is different from lighthearted. I could care less whether a story is lighthearted or serious business or somewhere in between, as long as it's done right and the characters are kept in character. But light? Sonic stories haven't been 'light' since Sonic games started telling a story. And if I remember correctly, Iizuka first joined Sonic Team because he wanted to tell a story.

I don't want Sonic stories to be light, and I have a hard time feeling sympathy for people who do. (Again, I'm not talking about lighthearted vs. serious, I'm talking light vs. involved.) If you don't want Sonic games to have a story, you can skip cutscenes or whatever. But those of us who DO want a story can't un-skip a cutscene that doesn't exist.

The Sonic franchise takes a lot of turns based on what it thinks fans want. Quite frankly, I can't wait until this light-story, no-characters bullshit is over. Something as plot-involved even as Unleashed would please me, because they weren't FORCING a story to be light. I want them to do what they have to do to tie up plot elements, provide us with some character interaction, make me care about what's going on and about the characters. I want a plot that feels like an adventure, with humor and depth that work together to give the story a balanced feel. Given how much effort Sega is putting into everything lately, I don't think it's impossible for them to do the same with story, especially considering the new writers. Is it that much to ask?

I don't think i could've put it any better. As far as tone goes, i don't mind wherether it's dark or light or inbetween. What i do want at least, is an engaging story. Unleashed did it fine although i believe to much of the focus was on Chip and not Sonic. The storybooks were great. They had perfect characterisation, dialogue and a balanced tone.

I'm going to say it for the billionth time. I'd happily swap in Colours' writers for Secret Rings and Black Knight's writers.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Neon

[Kuzu]

What bothers me is Sega's sudden determination to go light on story with the excuse of 'focusing more on gameplay.' They're two completely different things, and two different groups of people work on them. Going light on story is NOT a reflection of putting more focus into gameplay. It's not a valid reason.

Keep in mind that light is different from lighthearted. I could care less whether a story is lighthearted or serious business or somewhere in between, as long as it's done right and the characters are kept in character. But light? Sonic stories haven't been 'light' since Sonic games started telling a story. And if I remember correctly, Iizuka first joined Sonic Team because he wanted to tell a story.

I don't want Sonic stories to be light, and I have a hard time feeling sympathy for people who do. (Again, I'm not talking about lighthearted vs. serious, I'm talking light vs. involved.) If you don't want Sonic games to have a story, you can skip cutscenes or whatever. But those of us who DO want a story can't un-skip a cutscene that doesn't exist.

The Sonic franchise takes a lot of turns based on what it thinks fans want. Quite frankly, I can't wait until this light-story, no-characters bullshit is over. Something as plot-involved even as Unleashed would please me, because they weren't FORCING a story to be light. I want them to do what they have to do to tie up plot elements, provide us with some character interaction, make me care about what's going on and about the characters. I want a plot that feels like an adventure, with humor and depth that work together to give the story a balanced feel. Given how much effort Sega is putting into everything lately, I don't think it's impossible for them to do the same with story, especially considering the new writers. Is it that much to ask?

Also, this:

and this:

[DC111]

I'm going to say it for the billionth time. I'd happily swap in Colours' writers for Secret Rings and Black Knight's writers.

[Neon]

Just thought I'd point out that the script writers and the story writers are completely separate factions.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Neon

[pppp]

Oh look it's this topic again Fine here i go:

Naoto Oshima and Yuji Naka concieved the world and its characters as something light-hearted and comical without any kind of depth like the Sonic OVA which was produced by them clearly shows.

So that's why i want it to stay like that.It's the original vision of the creators and it should be respected.

[Unknown User]

I would like a good balance between light-hearted and serious.

[DC111]

Oh look it's this topic again Fine here i go:

Naoto Oshima and Yuji Naka concieved the world and its characters as something light-hearted and comical without any kind of depth like the Sonic OVA which was produced by them clearly shows.

So that's why i want it to stay like that.It's the original vision of the creators and it should be respected.

Yuji Naka also helped pen the characters and scenarios for Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2, which to me says that even Sonic's original creators wanted him to evolve. Just sayin'.

[Random Rhyme]

Nothing too corny.

Sonic able to keep his cool attitude and the story not being to serious where Sonic has to bend his normal attitude to it.

[Dark Qiviut]

Quite frankly, I can't wait until this light-story, no-characters bullshit is over. Something as plot-involved even as Unleashed would please me, because they weren't FORCING a story to be light. I want them to do what they have to do to tie up plot elements, provide us with some character interaction, make me care about what's going on and about the characters. I want a plot that feels like an adventure, with humor and depth that work together to give the story a balanced feel. Given how much effort Sega is putting into everything lately, I don't think it's impossible for them to do the same with story, especially considering the new writers. Is it that much to ask?

Couldn't have said it better about Unleashed's plot. That game's story did a lot of things right, but two key components were these: the lighthearted humor fit for not only the characters, but the circumstances, too; and the lack of shoehorning everyone in it.

The main problems for the stories of Heroes, Shadow, and Next-Gen's stories were not only the improper execution of the tones, but the fact that so many were inserted for little to the plot for no reason other than for them to be adjusted to the gameplay mechanics. Unleashed only used characters when they were necessary for them to do so, and the plotline was convincing for each characters' circumstances, conflicts, and resolves.

In a way, Unleashed and My Little Pony did one thing in common: the lighthearted tone felt natural. As the characters spoke, they felt realistic and plausible enough for me to understand and believe. Plus, the humor itself didn't feel forced or out of character. They flowed with the personalities and environments around them. When horseshit hit the fan (and in Unleashed, that didn't happen often), it was done reasonably and in a way that made sense.

Sonic Generations spoiler below!

And Generations seems to be returning to adding a more fleshed out story that was absent from Colors Wii due to its high cutscene count.

@Ishtar: Look up Sonic & the Black Knight's story and cutscenes on YouTube. It's light mostly, but it gets more and more serious as you approach the ending.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Dark Qiviut

[Eastwood]

The emphasis on story is one of the great qualities about sonic that separated it from mario and made

the games far more interesting.

As far as the tone goes I think sonic should have both light and dark stories and something in between.

It would make more sense to have different stories that appeal to everyone instead of having just one type of story.

[pppp]

Yuji Naka also helped pen the characters and scenarios for Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2, which to me says that even Sonic's original creators wanted him to evolve. Just sayin'.

Yeah but it was Iizuka that had the idea.

[DC111]

Couldn't have said it better about Unleashed's plot. That game's story did a lot of things right, but two key components were these: the lighthearted humor fit for not only the characters, but the circumstances, too; and the lack of shoehorning everyone in it.

The main problems for the stories of Heroes, Shadow, and Next-Gen's stories were not only the improper execution of the tones, but the fact that so many were inserted for little to the plot for no reason other than for them to be adjusted to the gameplay mechanics. Unleashed only used characters when they were necessary for them to do so, and the plotline was convincing for each characters' circumstances, conflicts, and resolves.

In a way, Unleashed and My Little Pony did one thing in common: the lighthearted tone felt natural. As the characters spoke, they felt realistic and plausible enough for me to understand and believe. Plus, the humor itself didn't feel forced or out of character. They flowed with the personalities and environments around them. When horseshit hit the fan (and in Unleashed, that didn't happen often), it was done reasonably and in a way that made sense.

Sonic Generations spoiler below!

And Generations seems to be returning to adding a more fleshed out story that was absent from Colors Wii due to its high cutscene count.

Couldn't have said it better? Actually, I think you just did. I have nothing to add to that.

I certainly hope so, though of course that depends on the content of said cutscenes.. I think I remember reading in a magazine scan that Generations was going to have a light story, which is why I'm concerned. But then again, Iizuka and others have said things before that don't always come to pass the way we think they will, so I could be wrong. Either way, Generations has too much potential and too many characters to forcibly crank down a story, so I hope they do it justice.

[Neon]

I always looked at depth and comedy as elements rather than sides of a spectrum, and it'd be nice to have both instead of having one over the other. Shadow and 06 where missing that comdey element whereas Unleashed and Colors where missing that depth element, arguably failing to get that element of comedy in there. By comedy, though, i don't necessarily mean that we're slapping our knees at a joke, and having depth means the earth is on fire during that joke. By comedy i mean it not being stiff and stale and relying too hard and epicness and the cool factor, moreso like comedy vs. tragedy than comedy as in a stand-up comedian. Sonic can take itself seriosuly, but it needs to take the fact that it's an anime world and you're a blue hedgehog that spins at the speed of light seriously, as in respecting that things still have to have rules and make sense with our insane hedgehog land.

This is really why i think the Storybooks got it spot-on. They have the perfect blend of both depth and comedy.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Neon

[Vertekins]

This is really why i think the Storybooks got it spot-on. They have the perfect blend of both depth and comedy.

So agreed. One thing about SatSR in particular was how it took one very minor plot element (The "Huge amount of Handkerchiefs" thing) and utilized it for both amusement (In the first cutscene) and for a touching bit (The ending). Again, it seemed to have been repeated in SatBK with the Amy date; Hinted in the manual (Some people have actually theorized that one of Sonic's Chili Dogs was in fact reserved for Amy and Sonic only ate hers or at least PLANNED to eat hers before it got blown away because he might've figured he wasn't getting out of that world anytime soon) and then brought up again after the true credits, giving a great bit of comedy with Amy acting scandalized and Sonic getting progressively more worried, resulting in another hammer chase XD.

It's tiny little story aspects like these that made the stories in the Storybook games even more endearing. It makes the Storybook games stand-out in a way. Their natures as side games gives the full potential for exploring the finer minutiae of the characters. But then I don't see why such potential for exposition can't be a factor of the main games storylines as well.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Verte

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

If I can't compare the series plots to that of Avatar: The Last Airbender in terms of enjoyment, it falls short. XP

Okay, but really. We've had good moments.

SA1 showed that we can have more story than what the Classic's offered, and can pull off a decent twist.

SA2 showed how they can take the series to a darker and edgier route without losing sight of who the characters were.

Heroes showed that they haven't exactly forgotten about characters from the past, and don't want to forget about characters that have too much potential as a one-shot.

Black Knight showed that they can still pull off a decent twist without you seeing it coming and still make it enjoyable.

Unleashed showed that they don't need every character to make a decent sized plot.

And Colors showed that they can still have Eggman break out some new tricks.

But they still fall short in their weaker areas. I'd like them to use those games to see what can be improved in order to make their plots more enjoyable.

Yeah but it was Iizuka that had the idea.

Well then apparently, the idea was good enough to have the series original creators go along with it, otherwise they wouldn't have bother since they had control of the series and Iizuka didn't. So that's not helping you're position regarding why it should stay how light it was when all three of them wanted to make it into something more.

The way I look at it, they wanted to take their idea and make it into a masterpiece by fleshing it out more. Nothing wrong with them for wanting that. The execution, however, is another thing.