General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Badnik Mechanic]

Oh fuck, I hadn't thought of that. I really hope they don't put stupid file size restrictions on downloadable content this time around.

They've got absolutely no choice.

If the default HD space is 8GB. Kiss goodbye to any full retail game downloads.

[Wraith]

Still a pretty big if, guys. Remember, this is a rumor.

[Conando]

They've got absolutely no choice.

If the default HD space is 8GB. Kiss goodbye to any full retail game downloads.

They already said the Wii U will have download versions of retail games. So that either means it has more than 8 GB internally, or they just do not give a fuck since SD cards and HDDs are so cheap.

[Tornado]

They already said the Wii U will have download versions of retail games.

Which only matters if publishers actually do it.

Which they probably won't.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Tornado

[Badnik Mechanic]

They already said the Wii U will have download versions of retail games. So that either means it has more than 8 GB internally, or they just do not give a fuck since SD cards and HDDs are so cheap.

Oh aye? And how long before the consumers get sick and tired of having to hook up a HD drive just to play their game?

What the SD/external HD drive solution mounts to is a glorified memory card, and I thought everybody had moved on from those by now when it came to consoles? You telling me, for a home console, people want to go back to memory cards instead of being able to just turn on their console and being able to play the game straight from the unit?

In fact how many people here have a full retail game on their 360/PS3? Would you really want to continually keep swapping SD cards of plugging in external HD devices just to play it? Or is it so much better and easier to simply click on the main menu and away you go?

And just think, the Wii-U is being called the first of the next gen consoles, yet surely this idea of needing External HD Drives and SD cards just so you have enough space for saves, patches, game data and downloads is actually one giant step backwards?

[Autosaver]

Wait, since when did people move on from memory cards? Many cameras, phones, and portable gaming systems still use flash memory cards.

I really don't get the complaining from using SD cards instead of an HDD. People keep bringing up that SD cards don't save that much, but since when? The technology is rapidly improving and 32GB cards cost as much as 2GB cards did when the Wii came out. Plus, I'm pretty sure flash memory might be faster so you might gain an extra performance boost when downloading games and patches. Also, flash storage devices take up a lot less space compared to HDDs, which allow for a smaller unit and more components to be placed inside the machine.

You might want to look on the bright side of SD cards too. You can now take your games to your friends house and play on the go (if it is implemented via account system or something) instead of having to redownload the game on a friends machine. With the increasing file size limits, this saves a lot of time and should make digital gaming a lot less tedious. No more disc scratching, no more losing discs, no more leaving discs at a friends house, just plug and play!

Seriously, SD cards are incredibly cheap and affordable. A 32GB SD card is ONLY $20, and it should be getting cheaper as the year moves on. I'm sure the Wii U will support even bigger file sizes (IIRC, the 3DS might support bigger) and SD cards will continue to dwindle down in price. I'm sure 64GB will drop down to a 32GB price in the next year or so. Very affordable and I'm sure that many families will prefer an SD Card set up instead of buying a 250GB built in harddrive and only using 1/10th of it.

Wait, why do we have to continue to swap SD cards to play? It'll take a while to fill up 32GB cards (and no, most games don't come with 1GB patches on launch or have a filesize bigger than 25GB) and I'm sure you will still buy physical games. This is also coupled with the fact that SD Cards will continue to get bigger, so you might end up having a 64GB Card instead of 32GB which will increase the longevity of your memory. I also don't get the problem with plugging in external HDDs? You plug it in once and you're done, it is really that simple. Sure there might be something sticking out next to the Wii U, but then you don't have to worry about needing an extra SD card. The funny thing is, you might actually be saving money by buying an SD Card/HDD yourself, since you can buy from any retailer and choose what size you want. Branded HDDs for 360 are usually marked up so this could be a big saving.

Overall, I really don't see the big problem with having an SD Card. You might have troubles if you go for the 2 dollar 8GB Card, but if you're going to be downloading a lot of games, why not spend 20 dollars for a big size? Or even buy an HDD that you plug in once and be done with? There are other issues to be worried about instead of this "memory card" problem. 8GB (Internal Memory) + 32GB = 40GB which should keep you for a while. Nintendo loves to have small file sizes for their games so I doubt something like NSMB will be more than 2GB. And again, you could always buy an HDD where you plug it in once and you're done. This shouldn't be a big problem for people that love to digital game as they're used to having a ton of HDDs/SDDs laying around.

And like I said, prices drop rapidly in the SD card department. 64GB will drop to half the price this year/next year. It would be perfect if Nintendo includes multiple SD card slots, because then you would be able to just plop down on two 32GBs/64GBs and be set. Then again, you could also buy an USB. You can easily get a 64GB for around 30 dollars.

Options:

Get a 32GB Card (LESS THAN 20 DOLLARS!!)

Get an External HDD and never bother again with memory swapping/running out

Get a 64GB USB (CHEAP!!! Can download many games/patches!)

Just use the SD Card Nintendo will probably supply - 8GB? Plus 8GB Flash Memory? 16GB might be good enough for the average casual gamer.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Autosaver

[Badnik Mechanic]

Wait, since when did people move on from memory cards? Many cameras, phones, and portable gaming systems still use flash memory cards.

Since consoles started coming with several hundred GB of memory as standard?

We are talking about a home console here. For the past seven years, unless you were a Wii only owner, you've probably only had to worry about storage space on your console once, and chances are thats if you owned an early model. When it comes to consoles, I think the majority of people have moved from memory cards. Portable devices are completely different, we're still in the mindset that there are likely to be limitations on them when it comes to memory so we expect to have to use some kind of extra storage, consoles however are another question.

And I bring you back to an earlier point that developers used to say about the Wii when it came to DLC. Theres no guarantee that the owner will have an SD card to use their products. Not unless nintendo slap one in the box at no extra cost.

Edit: Just thought of another one. Movie rentals, netflix and the others aren't gonna be scrambling to put money into a service for the Wii-U if theres not much chance of the end using having enough default memory to use it.

[Wraith]

This 8GB memory thing is sounding more and more ridiculous the more I think about it. I don't think Nintendo would do this.

[Autosaver]

Since consoles started coming with several hundred GB of memory as standard?

Not really, there were many models of the 360 with little to no storage. These were considered the low end "Cheap" versions.

We are talking about a home console here. For the past seven years, unless you were a Wii only owner, you've probably only had to worry about storage space on your console once, and chances are thats if you owned an early model. When it comes to consoles, I think the majority of people have moved from memory cards. Portable devices are completely different, we're still in the mindset that there are likely to be limitations on them when it comes to memory so we expect to have to use some kind of extra storage, consoles however are another question.

What exactly is wrong with a memory card? I know tons of people that uses USBs on their 360. With the term memory card, all I'm getting is some sort of "jab" at the Wii U by comparing it to say the PS2/GC cards. They're not even as obnoxious and SD cards will be virtually invisible once you plug it in.

Seriously, the reason why you're not getting an HDD is because of cost concerns. If we're getting a console for the rumored $299.99, I'm really not going to complain. You get a system, possible pack in game, and a tablet controller. Not everyone will want an HDD so I guess it could sport more sales compared to an unattractive $349.99 or $399.99 price. Hardcore gamers will most likely have an SD card, and it seems to be a success with the 3DS. Many games have been downloaded from the eShop even with the very limited SD card.

And I bring you back to an earlier point that developers used to say about the Wii when it came to DLC. Theres no guarantee that the owner will have an SD card to use their products. Not unless nintendo slap one in the box at no extra cost.

Nintendo is shipping 4GB SD Cards with every 3DS unit because of the limited internal memory. Does this sound familiar? Oh yeah! The Wii U has limited memory so we can easily assume that Nintendo will probably include an "expansion" SD Card. What did I say an 8GB card was? 2 dollars? Now mass produce this and how much money will they save?

8GB Internal + Possible 8GB pack in = 16GB Total Memory. This should be enough for patches, saves, small games (Arcade and many retail), and DLC. You could argue that DLC can range from 10MB to 3GB, but they're usually in the 500MB territory so I highly doubt you will encounter problems.

And again, the reason it does not include an HDD is the cost. I know some of you guys want to yell at Nintendo, but what do you expect from a cheap console? Things WILL be cut and you will have to spend your own money to get around them. 16GB not enough? Then buy a 32GB SD Card/250GB HDD and plug it in. Now you can store all those memory hogging files onto them.

One thing I didn't mention, what about cloud support? I remember rumors (Or maybe it is a fact?) that Nintendo will have 1GB worth of memory for cloud files. This can easily eliminate the need to save onto your memory if you can store them on the cloud instead. This will save room/clear up space on your internal memory or SD.

[Tornado]

I really don't get the complaining from using SD cards instead of an HDD.

Because Nintendo is already going to have to sell people on the concept of paying what will certainly be more money for hardware that will do less from a multimedia and online perspective than the other two systems. Now they are going to have to add on to that a console that will do less than what is expected of a modern game console in addition.

I really don't get the complaining from using SD cards instead of an HDD. People keep bringing up that SD cards don't save that much, but since when? The technology is rapidly improving and 32GB cards cost as much as 2GB cards did when the Wii came out. Plus, I'm pretty sure flash memory might be faster so you might gain an extra performance boost when downloading games and patches. Also, flash storage devices take up a lot less space compared to HDDs, which allow for a smaller unit and more components to be placed inside the machine.

You might want to look on the bright side of SD cards too. You can now take your games to your friends house and play on the go (if it is implemented via account system or something) instead of having to redownload the game on a friends machine. With the increasing file size limits, this saves a lot of time and should make digital gaming a lot less tedious. No more disc scratching, no more losing discs, no more leaving discs at a friends house, just plug and play!

Seriously, SD cards are incredibly cheap and affordable. A 32GB SD card is ONLY $20, and it should be getting cheaper as the year moves on. I'm sure the Wii U will support even bigger file sizes (IIRC, the 3DS might support bigger) and SD cards will continue to dwindle down in price. I'm sure 64GB will drop down to a 32GB price in the next year or so. Very affordable and I'm sure that many families will prefer an SD Card set up instead of buying a 250GB built in harddrive and only using 1/10th of it.

Wait, why do we have to continue to swap SD cards to play? It'll take a while to fill up 32GB cards (and no, most games don't come with 1GB patches on launch or have a filesize bigger than 25GB) and I'm sure you will still buy physical games. This is also coupled with the fact that SD Cards will continue to get bigger, so you might end up having a 64GB Card instead of 32GB which will increase the longevity of your memory. I also don't get the problem with plugging in external HDDs? You plug it in once and you're done, it is really that simple. Sure there might be something sticking out next to the Wii U, but then you don't have to worry about needing an extra SD card.

I think it speaks volumes for the validity of defending Nintendo over this when the entirety of your argument basically becomes "The shitty amount of space doesn't matter because you can buy stuff after the fact to get around it."

The funny thing is, you might actually be saving money by buying an SD Card/HDD yourself, since you can buy from any retailer and choose what size you want. Branded HDDs for 360 are usually marked up so this could be a big saving.

Don't confuse Microsoft's business practices with the norm.

Nintendo loves to have small file sizes for their games so I doubt something like NSMB will be more than 2GB.

While this is the same sort of typical Nintendo idiocy that drove third parties away in droves during the Gamecube and N64 eras, I don't think that was the intent behind you making this argument. This is a system that is going to be loaded with PS360 games as a matter of practicality, and those are a damn sight bigger than 2GB regardless of however little effort Nintendo puts into their lazy cash in titles this generation.

Not really, there were many models of the 360 with little to no storage. These were considered the low end "Cheap" versions.

Not many ≠ all, and all of those were intentionally built so hard drives could be installed into them if space did become a concern.

Seriously, the reason why you're not getting an HDD is because of cost concerns.

And again, the reason it does not include an HDD is the cost.

I'm going to be blunt about this: If you think mechanical storage costs more than flash memory, you have no idea what you are talking about. That 8GB of flash memory could have been an 80 GB HDD for about the same cost on Nintendo's part.

And no matter how many corners Nintendo cuts, there is no way that this is going to undercut the PS360, so that's a moot point anyway.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Tornado

[Conando]

Fact of the matter is that we're going to have to wait until tomorrow. It turns out VGleaks' "leak" is from a dev unit specs someone posted on NeoGAF forever ago.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Not really, there were many models of the 360 with little to no storage. These were considered the low end "Cheap" versions.

I like playing videogames, I want to buy games from the X-Box live arcade and take advantage of games that have DLC, what console should I get? The one that doesn't have any storage... or the one that has a lot?

16GB Total Memory. This should be enough for patches, saves, small games (Arcade and many retail), and DLC. You could argue that DLC can range from 10MB to 3GB, but they're usually in the 500MB territory so I highly doubt you will encounter problems.

No it won't at all. I have several games on my HD drive that take up nearly 70% of that 8GB space and thats before I even see if theres any patches/DLC. I've got another which goes over that 8GB limit and one on my to download list which goes over it by nearly double.

The same is likely for anyone who is currently a member of Playstation Plus... Why would anyone who has a console which has that storage capacity look at the Wii-U and go 'yes! That is an upgrade from my current system.' When it isn't. Nobody can honestly say that method of playing games is a better system when all we have to do with our current gen consoles is load up the machine, and it's there on the system. Not having to worry about storage issues for a long time because it was all included when we first purchased the unit. They want people to part from their 360's and PS3's they need to slap a lot more GB's on that memory, at least 150-200GB if they want to get anyones attention.

[Conando]

I don't honestly think anyone all that dedicated to PS3 would says it's a worthy upgrade regardless of how good it was, just saying. I always say Nintendo as a company that never actually stole customers from the other 2 of the big 3, though. They've been doing their own thing, and it generally gets them a significant market share that overlaps with gamers like that but, it also includes plenty of consumers that could not give less of a shit about Sony or Microsoft systems. For the Sony and Microsoft crew that do get a Wii U, they're getting it because they like Nintendo games, not because they care about whatever the fuck.

Edited September 13, 2012 by King Of Awesome

[Autosaver]

Because Nintendo is already going to have to sell people on the concept of paying what will certainly be more money for hardware that will do less from a multimedia and online perspective than the other two systems. Now they are going to have to add on to that a console that will do less than what is expected of a modern game console in addition.

Wait a minute, how is the Wii U going to do less multimedia and online perspective wise? What was shown looks leagues ahead of the PS3 online system and it looks decent for a free service. It isn't fair to compare the 360 to the Wii U because you're paying up to 60 dollars a year just to play online.

I think it speaks volumes for the validity of defending Nintendo over this when the entirety of your argument basically becomes "The shitty amount of space doesn't matter because you can buy stuff after the fact to get around it."

16GB will be enough for the typical gamer. I've barely used 20GB with my PS3 and I have several games installed along with patches. Yes, it is unfortunate that the system does not have an HDD but for people that do encounter problems may have to get around the issue by buying external products. Do I find it a big deal? Absolutely not. I just never saw the point in complaining when I can order my Wii U/SD Card at the same time or use an SD card at my house that I already have to jumpstart it. The Wii U may even come with an SD Card for a memory boost.

Don't confuses Microsoft's business practices with the norm.

I consider the norm to have consoles with and without HDDs. Yes, the Wii U doesn't have an HDD.

While this is the same sort of typical Nintendo idiocy that drove third parties away in droves during the Gamecube and N64 eras, I don't think that was the intent behind you making this argument. This is a system that is going to be loaded with PS360 games as a matter of practicality, and those are a damn sight bigger than 2GB.

The problem is that the GC and N64 used limited disc storage. The Wii U will still have full disc storage, the only problem will be with digital downloads. 360 games go up to 8GB, and PS3 is usually similar and sometimes more if it isn't compressed.

I'm going to be blunt about this: If you think mechanical storage costs more than flash memory, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm comparing Nintendo's small SD card addition vs a 250GB HardDrive (Typical Size - Big to store everything).

And no matter how many corners Nintendo cuts, there is no way that this is going to undercut the PS360, so that's a moot point anyway.

...What? It doesn't have to undercut the 360/PS3, it just has to be cheap and affordable. What looks more attractive to you? A brand new console that is launching with New Super Mario Bros U for $299.99 or the same thing for $349.99? As the price goes down, demand goes up.

Basically, I see the low size hurting games that are big in download size. But for the typical Patch/DLC, there shouldn't be that big of a problem, which is what I'm guessing Nintendo's goal. And as I said, many companies still put out games that ARE small in file size such as the typical arcade games or Mario. You'll have at least have a dozen games fit onto your memory before you run into problems if it comes with 16GB. Retail is still strong so I'm sure sales will still flock there if they don't have space on their console. Now FFXV? Yeah, probably going to be impossible to download.

There is a Nintendo Direct coming up so I'm going to guess it will be explained there. What if the system DOES come with an HDD? What then? Or what if it is releasing two models for people that want memory? Casuals will get what they want and gamers will get what THEY want. This is easily a Win-Win situation for Nintendo if it does happen.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Autosaver

[Vec]

Fact of the matter is that we're going to have to wait until tomorrow. It turns out VGleaks' "leak" is from a dev unit specs someone posted on NeoGAF forever ago.

So there goes the shit storm only to wait till tomorrow for the possibility of another one

[Sami]

Wait a minute, how is the Wii U going to do less multimedia and online perspective wise? What was shown looks leagues ahead of the PS3 online system and it looks decent for a free service. It isn't fair to compare the 360 to the Wii U because you're paying up to 60 dollars a year just to play online.

Uh

not really

I won't be impressed by Nintendo's online until I see for myself that they've gone past stupid friend-code bullshit. The Wii U demo didn't particularly impress me, either.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Dissident

[Tornado]

Wait a minute, how is the Wii U going to do less multimedia and online perspective wise?

...

Really? For you to ask that in regards to the former makes me think you've never looked at this thread before today. And in regards to the latter...

Yeah. I'll believe it when I see it, and what I've seen so far doesn't suggest anything but the same old from them.

The problem is that the GC and N64 used limited disc storage.

The problem with the GC and N64 was that they both directly competed with their contemporaries, except Nintendo saw fit to intentionally defy industry trends for shits and giggles and third party publishers refused to play ball.

360 games go up to 8GB, and PS3 is usually similar and sometimes more if it isn't compressed.

Both of those systems are nearing the end of their usable life, and their successors will be more digital distribution focused/enabled and the games for them will be bigger because the two won't need to work around the 360's limitations.

Which means Nintendo will be left holding the bag as soon as that happens.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm comparing Nintendo's small SD card addition vs a 250GB HardDrive (Typical Size - Big to store everything).

And I'm comparing Nintendo's small amount of flash memory with the exponentially larger amount of mechanical storage that would be able to be had for the same price, which in addition would allow the user to upgrade to something much larger down the line when it becomes necessary rather than the 32GB hard limit in place with SDHC.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Tornado

[Autosaver]

...

Really?

Do you not own a PS3? It is extremely limited and a lot of the social apps it has are retarded. I would take Miiverse over PSHome and the other garbage Sony puts out. Again, I agree with you on the 360 but that is a paid service. It is like comparing HBO to ABC.

The problem with the GC and Wii was that they both directly competed with their contemporaries, except Nintendo saw fit to intentionally defy industry trends for shits and giggles and third party publishers refused to play ball.

Unfortunately, the GC's limited disc space made porting impossible for the platform. The problem we have with the Wii U is that downloading big games is going to be impossible. Most people buy their games via retail on consoles, so I highly doubt that this is going to severely impact Nintendo. Sure it may be a negative, but who knows? A lot of information is left unexplained and may be explained later today. We have to wait and see what Nintendo will be deciding.

Um... The Next Xbox probably won't have games ported to the Wii U. Hate to say it, but I have a feeling we may have the Wii all over again.

And I'm comparing Nintendo's small amount of flash memory with the exponentially larger amount of mechanical storage that would be able to be had for the same price, which in addition would allow the user to upgrade to something much larger down the line.

Is this including form factor size? What if the Wii U is built to not have an HDD and putting one in would require modifications to the system? Again, we don't know and they can't just replace some flash memory with a brick.

[Nintendoga]

Man I'm still kinda mad/disappointed that the Wii-U can't play DVDs.

Estimated: $249.99 or $299.99 release date November 18th

Calling it.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Nintendoga

[Tornado]

Do you not own a PS3? It is extremely limited and a lot of the social apps it has are retarded. I would take Miiverse over PSHome and the other garbage Sony puts out.

And I would take the ability to play Blu Rays/DVDs and watch movies and look at pictures and listen to music with the hardware I know is capable of doing all of that over fucking around with Miis, which is a problem since we already know that Nintendo isn't going to include any of that since they told us months ago that they wouldn't.

Is this including form factor size? What if the Wii U is built to not have an HDD and putting one in would require modifications to the system? Again, we don't know and they can't just replace some flash memory with a brick.

You're acting as if Nintendo would be retrofitting a console that someone else made.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Tornado

[Dummy Bear]

Man I'm still kinda mad/disappointed that the Wii-U can't play DVDs.

But everyone already owns something that plays DVD/blu rays and that you should ONLY buy a game consoles to play games and nothing else. Nevermind the fact that Nintendo is trying to aim for the "hardcore" crowd that owns systems with these functionalities for what probably will probably be the same price.

And you have Netflix, nevermind the fact that it's not available everywhere.

[Wraith]

Eh. I rarely use my PS3 for DVDs anyway. it's Netflix that I mainly use for movies.

[The Kid]

I doubt we'd be stuck with only an 8gb memory card and the option to pay for more. Nintendo wouldn't be that stupid. This has to be some sort of faulty leak. I mean Nintendo is a little behind on some things like online capability and memory, but I don't think they'd do this what with their growing focus on downloadable retail titles.

Also, you can't complain about the Vita charging more money for memory and then turn around and say it isn't an issue when Nintendo does it (if they do it). Of course Vita's memory pricing is a little more than Nintendos's pricing, what with the focus on "Sony specific" memory.It's still an issue regardless.

I don't personally care about the lack of DVD compatibility. Pretty much everyone has multiple ways to watch DVD's nowadays. Heck I've only put a DVD in my Xbox once.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Mr. H/The Kid

[Marcello]

Also, you can't complain about the Vita charging more money for memory and then turn around and say it isn't an issue when Nintendo does it (if they do it). Of course Vita's memory pricing is a little more than Nintendos's pricing, what with the focus on "Sony specific" memory.It's still an issue regardless.

It's more than a little more. Unlike with the Vita, you can get any external harddrive for this.

Look at the differemce in pricing:

320gb External Harddrive: 65$/90$

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Passport-Portable-Drive/dp/B006Y5UV4A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347517951&sr=8-1&keywords=1tb+external+hard+drive

32gb Vita Memory Card: 80$

http://www.amazon.com/32GB-PlayStation-Vita-Memory-Card/dp/B006JKASCK/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347517974&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Vitat+32gb+memory+card

Nor do you need it to play games, whereas you need it to play 90% of the Vita games.

Anyway, like with the 3DS and DSi, I'm sure Nintendo will pack in some sort of extra storage unit.

[Blue Blood]

Anyway, like with the 3DS and DSi, I'm sure Nintendo will pack in some sort of extra storage unit.

And that's settled now. 8GB basic model, 32GB premium model. I'm okay with that. Sure I'd like more, and I kind of expect that further down the line there'll be new packages with more space. But not a big deal to me and lots of casual players.