Dr. Eggman or Dr. Robotnik?

[batson]

A villain is a threat based off his actions. Compare Genesis Eggman to his Post-Genesis self, and measure up who's the bigger threat between the two versions. Presentation is one thing, but it becomes fridge logic to claim that Eggman as of now is less evil when he has done more evil than he ever did in the past.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And i say presentation is everything.

Edited September 12, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[SchemingMinor]

I find it funny that Darkfox mentions that Eggman should have a " new voice actor because he doesn't sound threatening enough" and is completely oblivious about Mike Pollock's newer Eggman Nega.

[iDEATH]

Let's just call this whole debate off and switch to Dr. Badvibes

[MrROBOTO1988]

I like Eggman on most accounts these days, and I grew up with SatAM, Archie, and every other American incarnation of these characters. I will support that Robotnik is his real name or what not, but frankly, he goes by Eggman. He calls himself it, everybody calls him it, that's what he goes by. AND I think "Eggman" suits his demeanor a lot more than Robotnik. Because, outside of SatAM, Fleetway, and earlier Archie continuities, Eggman was always pretty goofy and ridiculous, but still wanted to take over the world.

On that note, I really like the direction Archie has taken the character. Ever since his "mental breakdown," he has not only been an evil schemer, but the craziness that they write into him gives him this completely creepy factor that he didn't have before, and it makes his goofiness creepy as well. We see an insane genius doing evil things and just grinning ear to ear while doing it. It's very Joker like, and I absolutely love it.

I do think Eggman in the games should have a BIT more evil-ness or craziness about him, just for that added level of "yes, I really am dealing with a dangerous villain here." But I doubt that will happen.

[crush40rocks]

Has Ivo ever actually been confirmed?

Yes, his first name is indeed Ivo. It was mostly referenced in the Genesis games' instruction manuals, which then leaked into heavy usage in the Archie Comics series and so on.

Also, I figured I would drop this here since it's relevant to the topic. Only the opening cutscene is relevant, as it shows Eggman calling himself Robotnik before he officially adopted the nickname (i.e. NOT birth name) Eggman.

[Dr. Mechano]

Also, I figured I would drop this here since it's relevant to the topic. Only the opening cutscene is relevant, as it shows Eggman calling himself Robotnik before he officially adopted the nickname (i.e. NOT birth name) Eggman.

In the dub only.

Watch the original scene in Japanese, and the Doctor introduces himself with a slightly different line: "I am the true form of genius, Lord Dr. Eggman!" He's clearly very proud of his moniker, and has never viewed it as an insult from Sonic. By affixing -sama to the end of his name, he's being especially arrogant. Clearly, Eggman thinks he (and his name) are grandiose and deserving of respect.

Due to the story-merger, I don't take SA1's dub as canon. It makes far more sense that Ivo Robotnik has been calling himself "Eggman" since the days of Sonic 1 (and possibly before), rather than deciding on a whim to adopt a somewhat weak insult that Sonic used only once, as the SA1 dub implied. Especially when you consider "EGGMAN" was proudly emblazoned on his Wing Fortress all the way back in Sonic the Hedgehog 2. What are we to take this as, some mischievous act of graffiti from a disgruntled Badnik in the western version? I think the answer is clear, on the contrary, that the doctor has always used and liked his nickname.

[midori]

Dr. Ivo sounds best.

[Kuzu]

In the dub only.

Watch the original scene in Japanese, and the Doctor introduces himself with a slightly different line: "I am the true form of genius, Lord Dr. Eggman!" He's clearly very proud of his moniker, and has never viewed it as an insult from Sonic. By affixing -sama to the end of his name, he's being especially arrogant. Clearly, Eggman thinks he (and his name) are grandiose and deserving of respect.

Due to the story-merger, I don't take SA1's dub as canon. It makes far more sense that Ivo Robotnik has been calling himself "Eggman" since the days of Sonic 1 (and possibly before), rather than deciding on a whim to adopt a somewhat weak insult that Sonic used only once, as the SA1 dub implied. Especially when you consider "EGGMAN" was proudly emblazoned on his Wing Fortress all the way back in Sonic the Hedgehog 2. What are we to take this as, some mischievous act of graffiti from a disgruntled Badnik in the western version? I think the answer is clear, on the contrary, that the doctor has always used and liked his nickname.

I really don't think its a big deal, and I think that Robotnik line was thrown into Sa1's dub just for the sake of consistency with the SoA storyline.

[batson]

Then explain to me how those very villains happen to be greatly disliked in their portrayal as well? You say Eggman's heroic acts and comedy are causing a decay in villain, and yet they've made people appreciate Eggman a lot more and criticize the ones who usurp him.

Throughout all this talk about how evil or how overly goofy Eggman has been, Eggman has always been the one people wanted to see more of as a villain.

But Eggman was very popular even before Sega started showing more likable aspects of him, and before they increased his usage as a comedic character. So i dont think that either one of these aspects is the main reason for why people like Eggman so much more than the other villains in the series. They probabaly help, no doubt, but the fact that he was popular even before SA2 came along (SA2 being as we all know the first time that we started seeing more sympathic traits in him, while his goofy behaviour gradually started being more emphasized in games after that) must mean that these aren't exactly necassery for the character to be well liked. In other words, the reason for why the other villains in the series are mostly disliked (i say mostly because at least Metal sonic is in fact a very popular billain, and so was of course also Shadow back during his brief original stint as a villain) cant very well be merely because they lack Eggmans comedic or sympathic aspects. And like i said, just look at Metal Sonic: nothing remotely nice or comedic about him and he still has legions of fans.

Now, concerning what exactly is the most fundamental appeal of Eggman, the thing that drew people to him since day one and still captivates people... well im note sure. Maybe it's the juxtaposition of his (and most of his creations) funny-looking exterior with his terrible deeds and the terrible things he represents. But i dont think Eggman really needs to occasionally side with the heroes nor say funny things in order to be compelling.

That's not to say that i want Sega to remove those to aspects of the character altogether. But for i while, they abused the hell out of that "siding with the heroes"-thing, which i believe made him seem like less of a loathsome bastard than he did before. Thankfully they seem to have stopped doing that though. But they still make him way to much of a comedy relief, now more than ever in fact.

All things considered, while the character always had goofy aspects i think that the 3D era has created a more lighthearted and sympathic aura around him than he had during his non-talking, non-helping the heroes, only-source-of-evil-in-the-series days.

Edited September 12, 2011 by batson

[Teeks]

I call him Dr. Eggman cause that's what he goes by now and always has gone by in Japan. Sure, I've been a fan of the series since 1994 and when I first heard him called "Eggman," I thought it was weird and wrong. But it's grown on me and now that's what I think of him as.

[Your Vest Friend]

I grew up with the Robotnik name, with both the Mega Drive manuals and AoStH. That said, as soon as I found out that the Robotnik name had been displaced in favour of Eggman, I instantly switched to using Eggman because I thought it was a better name. I know one person who doesn't agree with me though; no matter how many times I casually mention Eggman through either talking about my merch or about the games, they just have to correct me to Robotnik. Every. Single. Time.

SERIOUSLY MUM, STOP IT.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But Eggman was very popular even before Sega started showing more likable aspects of him, and before they increased his usage as a comedic character. So i dont think that either one of these aspects is the main reason for why people like Eggman so much more than the other villains in the series.

[Thrippa]

I fall in with the 'Eggman to refer to the game villain, Robotnik to refer to SatAM (etc.)' group. But then, I was twenty when Sonic came out (do NOT ask why I was watching SatAM at twenty years old!). The two characters clearly sprang from the same roots but were equally clearly different characters; I had noticed the Egg-everything and Eggman 'grafitti'; and I was under the impression that 'Robotnik' was supposed to imply evil by sounding Russian (which may have been wrong, but I grew up in the 70s, where being Russian was often shorthand for evil person, like being a stepmother in a fairy tale.) This automatically prejudiced me against the name, so I was delighted to encounter Dr. Eggman in Sonic Adventure, who in one swoop resolved the mystery of all the Egg references, gave a distinct name to the non-Julian Doctor, and eliminated the (perceived) racism of the Robotnik name. Robotnik as a surname I have no quibble with, since while Gerald did go mad, evil is the last thing anyone could accuse Maria of being.

And he was never particularly serious - serious villains don't POOF! into soot-face when the hero blows up one of their traps, and ride off shaking a fist. *Pictures soot-faced Voldemort shaking a fist at Harry, and Darth Vader jumping up and down on 'The End' at the close of Empire Strikes Back.*

That's my opinion, and I'm stickin' to it! (The above statements are not intended to represent the ideas or opinions of any person, dokan or small animal except Thrippa)

[BADavid]

I didn't get into Sonic (the games or any other part of the franchise) until Sonic Heroes was released, so for me it's always been Eggman. That said, I respect the Robotnik name (having since gone back and retrospectively become a huge fan of most of the earlier stuff). I've never really thought about it all that much, but for me, whenever I'm thinking about the games, Sonic X or the OVA, it's "Eggman", while I tend to instinctively think "Robotnik" for everything else. I guess there's a Japan/west divide there, but I've never thought about it consciously... I guess the character is portrayed pretty differently between the two territories so that probably contributes to it - in my mind, there's little crossover between, say, the Eggman of the games, and the Robotnik of SatAM.

[Random Rhyme]

I prefer Sonic and friends calling him Eggman in a mocking way to show their opposition of him and Dr. Robotnik preferring his real name Robotnik and referring to himself as Dr. Robotnik.

[Eastwood]

DR. ROBOGGAMAN!!

Lol I just wanna hear one of the characters call him this.

[crush40rocks]

Need I remind you, the Joker is comedy relief himself, and yet that doesn't stop him at all from being every bit as evil and twisted as he is.

[Billy]

I have no idea if it's been mentioned in this thread (I've barely read it). But Robotnik in Russian (Работник) is the word for worker, and also my preference.

[Nepenthe]

We must not be referring to the Dark Night Joker in the slightest. That just wouldn't be a very fair comparison at all, now would it? XD

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

We must not be referring to the Dark Night Joker in the slightest. That just wouldn't be a very fair comparison at all, now would it? XD

[crush40rocks]

What I'm referring to is the concept of sinister and psychotic on a level of degree. I can't imagine the Eggman of today doing anything as dark as the Joker does in either of these examples, particularly in the second example. Sega wouldn't allow it because it would scare all the little kiddies away. The hospital scenario however I can almost see, save for the fact that he is doing it with the intention of killing hundreds of injured and sick people in cold blood. I could imagine Eggman taking them prisoner at most, but even then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdp5DDaPDUU.

However if you wanted to compare him to, say, the cartoon Joker, then yes, I would say the similarity there is probably 90% or greater.

Anyway, Tomato, tomato (alternate pronunciation), this is merely a pointless nit-pick. Bottom line: No matter who we compare him to, he is what he is, and I love him as a character. Sure he's a bit sillier now than he used to be in, oh say, SA1 or 2, but He's pretty enjoyable in his quirkiness. The first time I heard him mock his robot minion's western drawl in Sonic Colors, I lost it. I knew right then that Sonic Colors was awesome, if not for that moment alone. True that this is a pretty ridiculous thing to judge an entire game on, but what can I say? I'm a huge Eggman fan. In fact, I would go as far as to say that he is my favorite Sonic character of all-time, with Sonic and Mighty tied for a close second.

Edited September 17, 2011 by crush40rocks

[Nepenthe]

My particular point was that even in TDK, the Joker still provides some comic relief despite being villainous, keeping his reign as the textbook example of the fact that the two qualities aren't mutually exclusive. I mean honestly, is there anyone on this forum who's seen that video who didn't understand the inherent humor of the hospital scene simply because it was a destructive act? If so, I wouldn't want to watch movies with them. :|

Edited September 17, 2011 by Nepenthe

[crush40rocks]

I mean honestly, is there anyone on this forum who's seen that video who didn't understand the inherent humor of the hospital scene simply because it was a destructive act? If so, I wouldn't want to watch movies with them. :|

Oh no, I still lose my shit when I see this scene. XD

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

What I'm referring to is the concept of sinister and psychotic on a level of degree. I can't imagine the Eggman of today doing anything as dark as the Joker does in either of these examples, particularly in the second example.

And yet, Eggman gets away with blowing up an island, and the moon with the intention of doing that to the earth, actually manages to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqHxGoFERZw, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNhSOOPZYe8...in three different locations. The Joker doesn't usually go anywhere outside of Gotham unless he's working with other villains from other superhero continuities and does far less damage in comparison.

Sega wouldn't allow it because it would scare all the little kiddies away.

Dude, that is a very lame excuse over why they wouldn't allow it, especially considering that the kiddies have already be expose to that kind of thing in various media. In fact, I'd bet a number of those kids weren't scared of the Joker in TDK when they saw him.

That's just over-sensitivity at it's worse. For example, how about the DragonBall Z series that kids happen to love so much, all while having villains kill civilians right in front of the kiddies watching the show? Cell of all character's stabs his huge stinger into his victims and sucks them up into his body, with nothing censoring the attack. Kiddies certainly weren't running away from something like that.

However if you wanted to compare him to, say, the cartoon Joker, then yes, I would say the similarity there is probably 90% or greater.

I was comparing him to DC's Joker, be it cartoon, live action, video game, or comic book incarnations.

Edited September 17, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic