Dr. Eggman or Dr. Robotnik?

[Legendary Emerald]

Does anyone call Eggman Nega, Robotnik Nega?

I just call him "My Nega".

[Dr. Mechano]

Robotnik's a cooler name then Eggman.

Of course over the years, he has become a lamer villain, so he deservers a lame name.

In my opinion Sega needs to drop the goofy crap, and make Robotnik a badass again.

Oh yes, 90s Eggman wasn't goofy at all. He only dressed like a clown, had armies of robots that looked like Fisher-Price toys, and a Death Star with his face on it.

Let's look at his decor in general. From the earliest games, Eggman's comical narcissism was constantly played up, culminating in giant golden statues, mechs, the aforementioned Death Egg, and more. Eggman's enthrallment with his own existence is hard to see in anything other than a comical light.

His vehicle of choice has always carried the sinister title of the Eggmobile. Surely that's up there with the greats of intimidating villain transport, like "Ganon's Little Pony" and "Giygas's Hella Sweet Space Ride." Oh wait, those don't exist because they're silly, and the villains who use them aren't silly at all. The Eggmobile- in both appearance and name- is a testament to Eggman's campy style.

And while I already mentioned it in passing, let's really talk about the Death Egg, which was only a major plot point of three of the original four Genesis games. As "serious" as some might claim the classic stories to be, they were about stopping Eggman's obnoxious Star Wars parody from taking over the world (and about it repeatedly crashing all the way). This would be about as serious as Ganondorf's scheme to conquer Hyrule prominently employing a blatant pop-culture reference to a famous fantasy villain with his big-nosed face on it instead. People would rightly call that out as "silly" at best, and it's equally silly when someone like Eggman does it.

I can't say too much about the Badniks. Truly the method he uses to power them (Using the local wildlife as living batteries, ostensibly) is obviously a jerk thing to do, it's difficult to take them seriously when the robots themselves are designed to look like shiny cutesy animals themselves. When you have minions as adorable as Eggman's robots, the only thing you strike into the hearts of your enemies is befuddled amusement, not fear.

And when you finally defeat this "monstrous dictator" and ruin his plans, does he mysteriously vanish leaving a vaguely threatening promise to return in his wake? No- He throws a tantrum like a small child, hopping up and down on the "END" text in a bit of rage-filled medium awareness.

It is my opinion that 90s Eggman was actually goofier than he is today. Modern Eggman may share many traits with his younger self (Thankfully; I'm glad the Doc's still a goofball), but he's also developed into a more complex character who can take things seriously and does more than giddily prance around like a heavily-armed Ceasar Romero. Eggman's changed since the 90s alright, but he's become more serious, not less. The number of times he's been the final boss really has no bearing on how his personality has shifted, which has definitely gotten darker and more complex, like everything else in the series.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Dr. Mechano

[PeanutButterDimond]

Robotnik's a cooler name then Eggman.

Of course over the years, he has become a lamer villain, so he deservers a lame name.

In my opinion Sega needs to drop the goofy crap, and make Robotnik a badass again.

Edited September 10, 2011 by PeanutButterDimond

[batson]

It is my opinion that 90s Eggman was actually goofier than he is today. Modern Eggman may share many traits with his younger self (Thankfully; I'm glad the Doc's still a goofball), but he's also developed into a more complex character who can take things seriously and does more than giddily prance around like a heavily-armed Ceasar Romero. Eggman's changed since the 90s alright, but he's become more serious, not less. The number of times he's been the final boss really has no bearing on how his personality has shifted, which has definitely gotten darker and more complex, like everything else in the series.

However, the classic games always made sure to give of an aura of genuine threat and menace to the doctor during the games final showdowns. After all, he was always the villain during the early years of the franchise, the source of danger and evil, as opposed to some secondary villain like he has so often been presented as in the individual games since. So when the big final boss of a game came around, Sonic Team of the 90's always used music and imagery meant to show that it was a serious life and death battle going on, and no matter how goofy the doctor might look, there was truly an atmosphere of absolute seriousness during those battles. One of the main reasons why people dont take Eggman as seriously as they did during the era of the classics is that in recent years, he has so often not been the final boss of the games and has instead been presented as the lesser of two evils. His "big bad" or "source of all evil in Sonics world" image that he had during the 90's has largely disapeared. Also, even if he looked goofy all along, it really isn't untill recent years that he has actually regulraly started to act goofy as well (of course, neither Eggman nor any other character did a whole lot of "acting" in the classics at all, but that is actually very much beside the point). Basically, it's no wonder that people see the modern Eggman as less of a serious villain than they did back in the day.

I will admit that Colors did a good thing by letting him be the final boss again though. However, the entire story of that game took itself so completely non-seriously that it is hard to truly get "into" the final showdown even if they do play really dramatic music and stuff, and the fact that we have seen Eggman act like a comic relief character throughout the entire game up to that point (admitatly along with pretty much every character in the game sans perhapes Tails) really doesn't help.

Edited September 10, 2011 by batson

[crush40rocks]

However, the classic games always made sure to give of an aura of genuine threat and menace

Being a fan of all eras, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to side with him in this. The level of seriousness wasn't distinguished by the elements themselves, but the tone in which they portrayed. Viscerally, these games had a way of hiding the comedy of the Death Egg and other gimmicks of the like beneath a veil of gritty visceral seriousness. Though I acknowledge that there is an element of comedy in the obvious Star Wars reference that it was, not once did I ever see the Death Egg as anything but a gigantic ball of threat. Every time you saw it on screen, it was always looking at you through the screen ominously. When the ship is zoomed in upon, like in Sky Sanctuary where you run up the collapsing pillar to board the ship, it is shown to be chock-full of gritty metalic detail. Inside the Death Egg, You are introduced to an enormous, spacious mechanical metropolis that could only be compared to the Independence Day mothership in size and population. I mean, my god... It just got more and more daunting. The music and the color palette used helped to further drive the tone that this was some serious shit. The mech bosses of the Death Egg and the Doomsday Zone were truly climaxes to remember. The Robotnik mechs were gritty and detailed beyond belief, and again, the music speaks for itself. Also, it's the only thing that Robotnik ever, EVER created that was SO much of a threat that it took THREE entire games to get rid of it. Considering how many times it's been shot down and revived, the Death Egg seems to have even one-upped the Death Star, at least in tenacity.

I can't even say that it's simply a case of the player projecting their own wishful seriousness onto the situations back then, because the music and artistic influences helped to solidify the tone, which is what made it so serious, not necessarily what the elements were period. It was all about the light it was shown in.

Let's see, there was the first boss of Lava Reef. The Death Egg was glaring at you through the screen yet again, then all of a sudden, the scene goes from rocks and diamonds to a fiery hell in a single death flash from its eyes. Then you are relentlessly fired upon by Robotnik until you are inevitably driven into his trap, the fiery pit in which you fight him. The boss itself was a good example of the comedy of Robotnik falling prey to his own actions, but again, it's comedy that can be found only by cutting through the veil of the hellish tone and serious music first.

I could go on, but I'm too lazy.

Edited September 11, 2011 by crush40rocks

[Gaming Misfit]

......Since when is "Robotnik" any more of a menacing name than "Eggman"...? It sounds like the name of a video game bo--Oh wait.

Anyways, they're the same person. So who cares?

[crush40rocks]

Anyways, they're the same person. So who cares?

[Gaming Misfit]

I don't mind Eggman, I use the name regularly now simply because that's what he's called now. I called him Robotnik in the previous post I made because that's what he was called back then. Actually, I have a black T-Shirt that I wear proudly in public that has a picture of Eggman thinking and it says, "Dr. Robotnik" beneath him. XD

[crush40rocks]

Of course, nothing wrong with either name IMO. I just don't see how the OP could actually think "Robotnik" sounds any more menacing than "Eggman". Not to mention he's incredibly vague, as Mechano said.

Edited September 11, 2011 by crush40rocks

[sayi50]

The moment I heard the word "Ro-butt-nik", the name Robotnik started to sound more funnier than Eggman.

I'd prefer Eggman hands down, because as some you might not now it, he is still a fucking threat even though he is named Eggman.

"What would happen if you saw Eggman in real life?"

You would be shocked at first, thinking "is that a cosplayer? Awesome!" and then when he makes his "cute" little robot army march, you'd cover in fear or run away. He IS still as threatening as if he's named Robotnik.

And as our fellow member Dr. Mechano said. The name was not changed into Eggman, it was changed BACK into Eggman.

[DavidTL]

His name is Dr. Eggman.

Earlier in this topic, someone explained some "research" they did into the name of Dr. Robotnik. That's all fine and dandy, but you have to realize that the man who actually came up with the name "Dr. Robotnik" had no idea about any of that. He wasn't some Russian scholar that wanted to create some intense allegory to the plight of the Soviet worker. The man who came up with the American name, Dean Sitton, was literally handed a picture of Eggman and said "Hey, come up with a name for this guy." He chose Robotnik because "lol he makes robots." Nothing more.

In fact, he came up with a few different names, including Dr. Badvibes. Fatty Lobotnik, Dr. X, and Dr. What. None of those scream "dark and sinister villain." They scream "1980's Generic American Cartoon Villain." Which is what Sega of America wanted to turn Eggman into.

Even the name "Ivo" was chosen because Dean Sitton thought it was pronounced "eevo." You know. Like the word "evil." Not because it was a Russian name or meant anything beyond that. Just because he thought it was pronounced completely different than how anyone else would say the name.

This is why I am unable to take Robotnik as a serious name. Yes, it is the one that I grew up with. Yes, I can accept that "lol its his canon name either way" if you want to get into Sonic Adventure 2. But Ohshima called him Eggman. Japan called him Eggman. In 1999, everyone called him Eggman. Robotnik should just, at this point, be a footnote in the history of Sonic the Hedgehog. Because the name Robotnik doesn't "strike fear into the hearts of man" if you know the reason why the name was chosen. And just as it has been said in this topic a million times over, Eggman was never meant to be a super serious, dark villain. Yes, trying to conquer the world is something that is evil and whatnot. Yes, the Death Egg's interior and some of his bosses can be scary. But every time Eggman shows up, even if he is surrounded by this dark and dreary landscape...he still has the goofy smile on his face, he still prances about and runs away in the most ridiculous fashion when Sonic beats him.

The name Robotnik simply represents an ideal that Eggman never was.

...also...um...Myst. I don't know if you're even reading this topic anymore, but the explanation you give as to why you prefer Robotnik over Eggman just seems to be a bit of a walking contradiction.

[Mangoaxe5]

His name is Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik. A lot of fans who like to call him Eggman seem to forget that Robotnik is his last name. And it's a good thing otherwise we'd have stupid names like Professor Gerald Eggman, and Maria Eggman.

Also I think that Robotnik should have a new voice actor. Someone who can make him sound more evil, and less goofy. Anyone else agree?

[Diogenes]

Has Ivo ever actually been confirmed? Eggman of course, Robotnik yes, but I don't remember Ivo ever actually being used.

Also I think that Robotnik should have a new voice actor. Someone who can make him sound more evil, and less goofy. Anyone else agree?

A lot of fans who call him Robotnik seem to forget that he's supposed to be goofy.

[Pawn]

He only dressed like a clown, had armies of robots that looked like Fisher-Price toys, and a Death Star with his face on it.

This and the rest of your post pretty much sums up why I love Eggman. Also, I always forget it's called the Eggmobile. I still think of it as the Egg-o-matic. XP

Also I think that Robotnik should have a new voice actor. Someone who can make him sound more evil, and less goofy. Anyone else agree?

I'm sure the voice actor could do serious if he wanted to. In fact, he gave the character a more serious tone of voice in '06. It has more to do with the voice direction. Besides I think he's perfect and am glad he's stayed on despite the rest of the 4kids cast having left.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Lungo

[Kuzu]

Also I think that Robotnik should have a new voice actor. Someone who can make him sound more evil, and less goofy. Anyone else agree?

Or, you accept that Eggman isn't SATAM Robotnik, and he never will be, and move on with yourself, you'll feel so much better.

Anyway, both names are being used, Eggman is just used a bit more than Robotnik is all, at least Sega have acknowledge that its his official family surname.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Shadic93

[Nepenthe]

If game Eggman has to be serious business all the time and get someone else to voice him instead of the kick-ass Mike Pollock, then Archie's gotta kill off Sally permanently. I see that as a fair trade; I don't understand trying to change certain aspects of canons people admittedly hate only to suit their selfish whims instead of merely enjoying the ones that already best cater to their interests. Seriously. =/

[Sean]

Not that the discussion is getting too out of hand, but I'd just like to reiterate that this topic is about a preference of either name and not which name is the right one. Or which name or version of Robotnik is the most seriously-taken.

[Dr. Mechano]

His name is Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik. A lot of fans who like to call him Eggman seem to forget that Robotnik is his last name. And it's a good thing otherwise we'd have stupid names like Professor Gerald Eggman, and Maria Eggman.

Who are these "lot of fans" you speak of? I acknowledge that Robotnik is his real family name, thanks to the story-merger retcon. I even happily accept it, since I think it adds a cool new dimension to his backstory.

See, let me use Batman as an example. For the caped crusader too has a bouncy eccentric fat man to contend with- The Penguin. However, his real name is Oswald Cobblepot, and this name isn't even a secret identity since it's out, open, and on the books. Everyone knows he's Cobblepot, but everyone (in and out of universe) calls him by his criminal moniker- The Penguin.

Eggman is exactly the same way. Sure, his real name is Ivo Robotnik, but he himself chooses to go by "Dr. Eggman" and unsurprisingly has a bit of an egg motif in his schemes- Something that's been true since the Genesis games. Eggmobiles, Death Eggs, Egg Robos, I could go on. Eggs are to Eggman what birds are to the Penguin; A bit of thematic flavor to go with his villainy and nothing more.

Thus, my argument is not against the name Robotnik, but for the name Eggman. Eggman proponents do not wish to see "Robotnik" eradicated; They merely acknowledge that Eggman is his chosen alias- A villainous "stage name" as it were.

Also I think that Robotnik should have a new voice actor. Someone who can make him sound more evil, and less goofy. Anyone else agree?

Mike Pollock is, bar none, the best actor of both the current and previous Sonic game voice cast. His acting skill is amazingly entertaining and surprisingly versatile, and I can assure you he's more than capable of sounding menacing and cruel. He just doesn't for Eggman because the writers and directors for these projects are the ones who decided on Eggman's goofy personality, not his voice actor.

Since you love SatAM Robotnik so much, is it any surprise that the (also amazingly talented) Jim Cummings is a man of many voices himself? He can be the sinister Julian, the bumbling Pete, or the cute and innocuous Winnie the Pooh depending on his role. But he didn't decide to make Julian sound like a heartless dictator- His writers and directors did, and you can bet that if he were written as a comedic character, ol' Cummings would give his funniest performance.

Mike Pollock is a true treat to listen to, as well as remarkably friendly and open with his fans. I consider him one of the gems of the Sonic franchise, as his roles- no matter how small- always entertain. While Deem Bristow is my absolute favorite voice for Eggman of all time, Pollock's an extremely close second, and his acting talent is difficult to deny.

But I'll admit that's subjective, so let me simply restate my main point: The actor doesn't decide that a character should sound goofy. Whether you prefer silly Eggman or not, you can't blame Pollock for the character going in that direction; The people in charge wanted silly, and he gave them his best performance to meet that goal. And in my opinion, the man succeeded with flying colors.

[Sonic the Hedgehog in 3D]

Has Ivo ever actually been confirmed? Eggman of course, Robotnik yes, but I don't remember Ivo ever actually being used.

He calls himself 'Dr. Ivo Robotnik, the greatest scientific genius in the world!' in Sonic Adventure

and I think it's used in the background on the annoucement of the moon blowing up in Sonic Adventure 2

[Dr. Mechano]

He calls himself 'Dr. Ivo Robotnik, the greatest scientific genius in the world!' in Sonic Adventure

and I think it's used in the background on the annoucement of the moon blowing up in Sonic Adventure 2

Afraid not. He says "Dr. Robotnik" several times in SA1, but not Ivo. SA2, same deal. The name "Robotnik" pops up from time to time (Including the background of his threats to the world), but not "Ivo."

I think the only bit of official game media to ever use the name Ivo was the original English manual to Sonic 1. It's never been used in anything since then aside from the cartoons and comics, which of course are their own separate canon. While "Robotnik" was obviously appropriated into the games as Eggman's real name, it's less clear if "Ivo" was as well. In my own personal fanon, it was- I like to think of Eggman having a first name, and "Ivo" is as good as any, after all.

[batson]

With this near-consensus among the members of this site that Eggman is supposed to be all goofy, i feel the urge to remind you all once again that, at least originally, he was also essentially the source of all evil in the Sonic series. By this i of course mean that he and his creations was the one and only threat we saw in the series. In the classic games, there was always a feeling that Sonic's word (the part of it that we actually got to see, anyway) would pretty much a beautiful paradise full of nothing but cute animals living together in harmony weren't it for the Doctor and his killing machines. And this is one of the things that made people take him more seriously back then, and something that is forever lost ever since Sega decided to start shoving it down our throats that Eggman really isn't so bad compared to the buttloads of other evil-doers that exist in the Sonic universe.

Also, the classic games always had the heavy symbolic overtones in the Sonic-Eggman conflict where Eggman represented mans destruction of nature (as ouright stated by Yuji Naka himself). This of course added some extra weight to Eggman as a villain and a threat to take seriously, and is also something that became largely been forgotten in modern games, as, among other things, Eggman stopped using animals to power his robots, other humans started showing up, and the games started to take place in modern rural areas more often (It was nice to see Eggmans exploitation and pollution of nature make a big comeback in Colors though).

Take the fact that Eggman used to be the series sole source of evil, along with what he symbolized back then, and combine this with the very dramatic and ominous music that he was represented with in the classic games, and i think you will all realize that there were reasons why people saw Eggman as a more serious villain back then, reasons that didn't have anything to do with SatAM.

[PeanutButterDimond]

With this near-consensus among the members of this site that Eggman is supposed to be all goofy,

You know, despite that pretty much everyone in this thread has said that Robotnik is supposed to be a mix of goofy and menacing. I've seen more people in this thread that think he's supposed to be all menacing than people who think he should be all goofy.

i feel the urge to remind you all once again that, at least originally, he was also essentially the source of all evil in the Sonic series. By this i of course mean that he and his creations was the one and only threat we saw in the series. In the classic games, there was always a feeling that Sonic's word (the part of it that we actually got to see, anyway) would pretty much a beautiful paradise full of nothing but cute animals living together in harmony weren't it for the Doctor and his killing machines. And this is one of the things that made people take him more seriously back then, and something that is forever lost ever since Sega decided to start shoving it down our throats that Eggman really isn't so bad compared to the buttloads of other evil-doers that exist in the Sonic universe.

Colours made him out to be a pretty evil son of a bitch. He took a whole peaceful race, sucked their energy, captured the little guys's planets and made them in to an amusement park. All for mind control. The PA announcement about their screaming in agony further cemented how evil and heartless he is.

Also, the classic games always had the heavy symbolic overtones in the Sonic-Eggman conflict where Eggman represented mans destruction of nature (as ouright stated by Yuji Naka himself). This of course added some extra weight to Eggman as a villain and a threat to take seriously, and is also something that became largely been forgotten in modern games, as, among other things, Eggman stopped using animals to power his robots, other humans started showing up, and the games started to take place in modern rural areas more often (It was nice to see Eggmans exploitation and pollution of nature make a big comeback in Colors though).

Take the fact that Eggman used to be the series sole source of evil, along with what he symbolized back then, and combine this with the very dramatic and ominous music that he was represented with in the classic games, and i think you will all realize that there were reasons why people saw Eggman as a more serious villain back then, reasons that didn't have anything to do with SatAM.

Like Eggman hasn't had dramatic music for three games now? Also while there are other enemies now, Robotnik still symbolizes what he used to. His pollution made a big comeback in Colours, as you said. In Colours, he's still ruining nature with wrongly used machinery while Sonic and Tails are trying to preserve it. Planet Wisp is a perfect example of this. Tails and Sonic even acknowledge it. In Colours he's doing what he did in Sonic 1, just with cute little aliens instead of cute little animals.

Sorry, I don't realize it. Not to say that people think Eggman was more of a threat just because of SATAM, but honestly, nothing you've said really holds much, in my opinion.

Oh and

Sonic 2 Eggman music:

Sonic 06/Unleashed/Colours Robotnik music:

I get threatening vibes from both.

Edited September 11, 2011 by PeanutButterDimond

[Dr. Mechano]

With this near-consensus among the members of this site that Eggman is supposed to be all goofy, i feel the urge to remind you all once again that, at least originally, he was also essentially the source of all evil in the Sonic series. By this i of course mean that he and his creations was the one and only threat we saw in the series.

I'm compelled to mention that being the only onscreen villain (usually anyway; There were still Fang, Witchcart, and Grand Battle Kukku to contend with) does not have much bearing on his personality. Bowser was Mario's most common antagonist as well (and still is), but was never really presented as a dark or foreboding figure. Being the only source of villainy (or close to it) doesn't automatically make your villainy more evil.

In the classic games, there was always a feeling that Sonic's word (the part of it that we actually got to see, anyway) would pretty much a beautiful paradise full of nothing but cute animals living together in harmony weren't it for the Doctor and his killing machines.

Please explain the modern cities then.

Sonic 1 gave us Spring Yard and Starlight, while Sonic 2 gave us the cities in the backgrounds of Chemical Plant and Casino Night (which has signs praising Sonic and Tails, so it can't be Eggman's city). I think the presence of non-malicious mankind was always implied, even in the classic games. There was always more than just "beautiful harmonious nature" to defend Eggman from; These cities (likely human-populated ones) were also under Eggman's siege.

And this is one of the things that made people take him more seriously back then, and something that is forever lost ever since Sega decided to start shoving it down our throats that Eggman really isn't so bad compared to the buttloads of other evil-doers that exist in the Sonic universe.

Because he isn't.

Conquering the world to establish your own egocentric empire is a jerkish thing to do, I'll readily admit. It's downright horrible.

But on the sliding scale of morality, I think most people would be more upset by their planet being destroyed than by being ruled by an unfair and potentially insane government. Eggman may want to rule the world, but there's no indication he'd wantonly kill off his subjects. And even in the classic games, his motivation was this: World conquest, not world destruction.

Also, the classic games always had the heavy symbolic overtones in the Sonic-Eggman conflict where Eggman represented mans destruction of nature (as ouright stated by Yuji Naka himself). This of course added some extra weight to Eggman as a villain and a threat to take seriously, and is also something that became largely been forgotten in modern games, as, among other things, Eggman stopped using animals to power his robots, other humans started showing up, and the games started to take place in modern rural areas more often (It was nice to see Eggmans exploitation and pollution of nature make a big comeback in Colors though).

Regardless of intentions, the message is kind of muddled when we see plenty of good technology, even in the classic days. Sonic owns a plane. His best friend is a technological genius. The locales he defends are often sprawling urban industrial areas that are just as threatened by Eggman as the forests and beaches are.

I think a compounding problem with this environmentalist message is that Eggman's committing a far bigger crime than pollution or animal abuse: He's trying to take over the planet with an army of robots. Full stop. Eggman could be the greenest villain in video game history, and he'd still be evil by virtue of his aspirations for world conquest. In the end, trying to take over the world kind of overshadows the collateral damage the doctor does to the ecosystem along the way. We know deforestation and animal mistreatment is bad, but these things are merely side-effects of something even worse. And really, that's not a very good analogy for environmental awareness anyway, since most real-world pollution happens as an unfortunate side-effect of (ostensibly) positive industry, which at least in and of itself isn't unabashedly evil (see lumber, mining, etc.). Eggman isn't merely a corporate executive with too little concern for the environmental damage in his otherwise-legit endeavors- He's a world-conquering madman, someone who would already be a bad guy with or without the environmental problems resulting from his schemes.

[batson]

I'm compelled to mention that being the only onscreen villain (usually anyway; There were still Fang, Witchcart, and Grand Battle Kukku to contend with) does not have much bearing on his personality.

But i wasn't really talking about character personality as much as audience perception. Being the sole pollutioner, destroyer and conqueror of an otherwise peaceful world does make a villain character come of as a lot more loathsome than if the villain is just one of many such bad guys. And whats even more destructive to a villains evil presence is when he ends up being on the same side as the good guys in order to stop some bigger bad.

I guess my main reply to both you and PeanutButterDimond is that Eggman was, im pretty sure, generally percieved as an a lot more loathsome baddie during the era of the classics than he generally is today, even if he did look and sometimes acted silly.

Like is said earlier, in the old days, the combination of being the only notable villain in the series, along with the very obvious symbolism attached to him (a symbolism that, granted, might get problematic if you care to stop and analyze the games in greater detail, but is very obvious on first sight) and the style in which he was presented (mostly through the music) combined to balance out his silly aspects and make him seem like a real threat.

And yes, he is thankfully still presented along with dramatic music. But some of the things that has made him lean further towards the not-to-be-taken-that-seriously side of things include that fact that he is no longer the only notable villain in the series, that he is nearly always prestend as the lesser of two evils when he shows up in a game which also features another villain, that he has fought on the same side as the heroes, he has (although rarely) shown signs of sympathy (such as when he told Shadow the truth about his past for at least seemingly no reason other than feeling it was the right thing to do) and that since around the time of Sonic Heroes he has often been used as a comic relief character. Also, his symbolic functions hasn't been anyhwere near as constantly obvious during the past years, sometimes almost being forgotten. But yes, his original symbolism does seem to have been making a return in the very most recent games such as Colors and Sonic 4, so let's hope Sega wont start to forget about it again.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

With this near-consensus among the members of this site that Eggman is supposed to be all goofy, i feel the urge to remind you all once again that, at least originally, he was also essentially the source of all evil in the Sonic series.

Explain to me how being goofy denies him from being evil? Do we need to go through a list of goofy villains who are not to be taken lightly? Because, honestly, the Joker is starting to become one of the most mentioned non-Sonic villains in the Sonic Discussion.

To say nothing of characters like Majin Buu from Dragonball Z. Or Dr. Nefarious from Ratchet and Clank and it's various other villains. Or...

Honestly, what does being goofy have to do with how evil a character is? If the Joker is anything to go by, you can be goofy and at the same time be THE most deadly villain within a series continuity.

By this i of course mean that he and his creations was the one and only threat we saw in the series. In the classic games, there was always a feeling that Sonic's word (the part of it that we actually got to see, anyway) would pretty much a beautiful paradise full of nothing but cute animals living together in harmony weren't it for the Doctor and his killing machines.

Killing machines that look like children's toys. Then again, using the Joker once more, children toys can make pretty deadly weapons when you actually weaponize them.

And this is one of the things that made people take him more seriously back then, and something that is forever lost ever since Sega decided to start shoving it down our throats that Eggman really isn't so bad compared to the buttloads of other evil-doers that exist in the Sonic universe.

Or something for you to completely overrate the past portrayal and greatly devalue the current one.

Exactly how the hell is Eggman "not so bad" now when the guy was more than willing to blow up the earth using his grandfather's Kill Sat in SA2? Or when he actually did that with his own Kill Sat that split the earth into several pieces in Unleashed? Or in that very same game, he did the impossible that absolutely NONE of these ancient monsters and greater evils were capable of doing and KNOCK THE "SUPER" OUT OF SUPER SONIC?!

A villain is a threat based off his actions. Compare Genesis Eggman to his Post-Genesis self, and measure up who's the bigger threat between the two versions. Presentation is one thing, but it becomes fridge logic to claim that Eggman as of now is less evil when he has done more evil than he ever did in the past.