Dr. Eggman or Dr. Robotnik?

[Tobbii]

What's funny is, I find myself saying Eggman while talking in Swedish, even though it's Swedish in which I've learned to call him Robotnik. Then when I talk English or writing in either language, it's always Robotnik.

Screw it, I'll call him Dr. Robotonic as in Sonic The Fighters.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Tobbii

[ProfessorZolo]

For me, it's Eggman if I'm talking about the modern version, and Robotnik if I'm talking about the old version. Simple enough, no?

[MobileChikane]

His real name is Dr. Robotnik, obviously. But he goes by the name of Dr. Eggman. Why's this so hard to understand? He's gone under the name 'Eggman' longer than 'Robotnik'

I was swearing under my breath in IGN's Colours review.

"Sonic Colours takes place in a bizarre, interstellar amusmant park made by Dr. Robot...I mean Eggman" That really made me disregard whatever he said about other 3D Sonic games since he obviously hasn't played them. (Going off by that)

Anyway, going off track. Yeah Eggman. It's got a much better ring to it.

Edited May 8, 2011 by MobileChikane

[Sonowske]

What it should be? Probably Eggman, since that was the name Japan always gave him.

My opinion? Doesn't really matter. Probably have his enemies call him Eggman and then his subordinates can call him Robotnik.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

What it should be?

It should be Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik. That has a hella good ring to it.

[Octarine]

It should be Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik. That has a hella good ring to it.

Self-obsessed and fond of dramatic flair as he is, I'm surprised that we haven't seen Eggman use his full title more often. Or, uh, ever. I guess he just hasn't needed to introduce himself to very many people lately, but it seems like the kind of thing he'd love to do.

[Flyboy Fox]

His real name is Dr. Robotnik, obviously. But he goes by the name of Dr. Eggman. Why's this so hard to understand?

I don't think anyone has trouble understanding that. But he has called himself by both names at different times, and some people like one more than the other.

He's gone under the name 'Eggman' longer than 'Robotnik'

That's a moot point, unless you grew up in Japan. Anyone familiar with only the western translations of the game will have grown up with him as Robotnik first and foremost, gradually transitioning over to 'Eggman' over the years.

I was swearing under my breath in IGN's Colours review.

"Sonic Colours takes place in a bizarre, interstellar amusmant park made by Dr. Robot...I mean Eggman" That really made me disregard whatever he said about other 3D Sonic games since he obviously hasn't played them. (Going off by that)

I don't think you can judge whether someone is familiar with the modern games judging by whether they hold a preference for his Robotnik title or not. It seems a little facetious to include in the review, admittedly, but not worth disregarding everything on, alone. I often find myself typing Robotnik out of habit even when talking about modern Eggman.

Anyway, going off track. Yeah Eggman. It's got a much better ring to it.

It's less of a mouthful, admittedly, and lends itself more easily to naming other things of his. It's probably more functionally useful as a handle. But I still prefer Robotnik overall, even though I accept he goes by Eggman these days and that's fine. (As an odd little aside, although I match the man up with the name Robotnik, I always associate his little grinning head 'brand logo' with the name Eggman.)

[Tobbii]

Self-obsessed and fond of dramatic flair as he is, I'm surprised that we haven't seen Eggman use his full title more often. Or, uh, ever. I guess he just hasn't needed to introduce himself to very many people lately, but it seems like the kind of thing he'd love to do.

That was my main issue with Robotnik's scenes in certain games. Like him talking to the president in Sonic Adventure 2 or Princess Elise in Sonic 2006, when he simply goes "I'm Dr. Eggman.", I would have gone all "Greeting my good man/lady, do you know who I am? I am Doctor Ivo Robotnik, call me Doctor Eggman if you so wish." or something like that, that would have been awesome.

[Kuzu]

That was my main issue with Robotnik's scenes in certain games. Like him talking to the president in Sonic Adventure 2 or Princess Elise in Sonic 2006, when he simply goes "I'm Dr. Eggman.", I would have gone all "Greeting my good man/lady, do you know who I am? I am Doctor Ivo Robotnik, call me Doctor Eggman if you so wish." or something like that, that would have been awesome.

I just miss it back in Sa1 where Sonic called him Eggman as an insult while every NPC, and Eggman himself referred to him as Robotnik. Though it could be kind of the same case with Tails, I mean how many people even call him Miles? Though Tails is more of a nickname rather than an insult but I think it still applies.

[Dr. Mechano]

I just miss it back in Sa1 where Sonic called him Eggman as an insult while every NPC, and Eggman himself referred to him as Robotnik. Though it could be kind of the same case with Tails, I mean how many people even call him Miles? Though Tails is more of a nickname rather than an insult but I think it still applies.

Was only an insult in the horridly inaccurate dubbed version. I wish that scripting alteration had never been made, as to this day people continue to think that somehow the "insult" explanation is canon, when it obviously isn't.

That's a moot point, unless you grew up in Japan.

I kinda disagree that it's a moot point. There's a lot of overlap between the Sonic fandom and the general anime/manga fandom, where accuracy of translation tends to be held in very high regard. A lot of fans who grew up in countries where the western story was prevalent would still hold to the position that those changes shouldn't have been made, and that the series would have benefited from a more accurate localization. In turn, this would've prevented all the culture shock in the Adventure era, since there'd be nothing to change except for the designs.

Ergo, when I say I'm a classic fan, and prefer the doctor's first and original name, I of course refer to Eggman since it came first. Generally, when people say that Robotnik was "changed" to Eggman, it frustrates me because it would be more accurate to say he was "changed back" to Eggman.

Self-obsessed and fond of dramatic flair as he is, I'm surprised that we haven't seen Eggman use his full title more often. Or, uh, ever. I guess he just hasn't needed to introduce himself to very many people lately, but it seems like the kind of thing he'd love to do.

To me, this wouldn't really fit, and here's why:

"Eggman" is Ivo Robotnik's supervillain name. Much like Oswald Cobblepot goes by "The Penguin," or Leonard Snart goes by "Captain Cold," Ivo Robotnik's public appearances have him exclusively go by "Dr. Eggman." It's part of his villainous gimmick, and using his real name would sort of ruin the "egg" theme he's going for.

I'm not saying Eggman is an alias in the true sense; Everyone in the world knows who he is, and that he's Professor Gerald's grandson, so "Eggman" is not a means to hide his identity like some villainous names would be. But it is his "stage name" in a sense, out when he's launching evil schemes and trying to conquer the world.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Dr. Mechano

[Kuzu]

Was only an insult in the horridly inaccurate dubbed version. I wish that scripting alteration had never been made, as to this day people continue to think that somehow the "insult" explanation is canon, when it obviously isn't.

Horrid? I thought the Dubbed version actually had a pretty decent script. It was a nice comprimise: Rather than call him either Eggman or Robotnik they took the third option and just used both, I thought it worked pretty damn well, and if they kept it up to this day, I bet we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

[Flyboy Fox]

Was only an insult in the horridly inaccurate dubbed version. I wish that scripting alteration had never been made, as to this day people continue to think that somehow the "insult" explanation is canon, when it obviously isn't.

I'm not sure that I subscribe to the idea that altered translations are less canon. In the case of our eggy friend, I tend to think of the original Japanese canon and the westernised canon as simply being two slightly different (but equally valid) canons which eventually got drawn together into what now is pretty much a conglomerate of the two (Robotnik as his official name, Eggman as his daily moniker).

[Dr. Mechano]

I'm not sure that I subscribe to the idea that altered translations are less canon. In the case of our eggy friend, I tend to think of the original Japanese canon and the westernised canon as simply being two slightly different (but equally valid) canons which eventually got drawn together into what now is pretty much a conglomerate of the two (Robotnik as his official name, Eggman as his daily moniker).

Perhaps, but the fact that in every subsequent appearance Eggman has exclusively referred to himself as "Eggman" without any hint of perceiving it as insulting is rather telling in regards to how relevant the SA1 English dub is to the storyline in any language today. Even Sonic Team themselves don't acknowledge the dub changes they made anymore.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Dr. Mechano

[Flyboy Fox]

The "insult" thing feels to me less like an error in translation and more like a method of introducing the name, so the change wouldn't be as abrupt as suddenly out of nowhere Robotnik starts calling himself Eggman. Obviously they wanted to bring the two canons in line, but I don't think that necessarily retcons any of what happened in the western-translated canon. Eggman took that insult and OWNED it XD Take that, hedgehog!

[MizukiMoon]

AoStH Robotnik, hands down. To me, I much prefer Robotnik to be comical and a laugh, and AoStH Robotnik is just that- he's hilarious! I've also got a soft spot for SatAM's Robotnik due to his pure evilness =D And the whole roboticization thing he created is spot on.

To me, I've never really been able to judge classic-era games Robotnik as it never gave him much personality.. And modern in-game Robotnik? Ugh, I can't stand him. His design's hideous, voice acting horrible, and most of all, I can't bare his personality.. For an evil genious, he's as much evil as I am lol Seriously, Robotnik needs a personality change- badly! The series could do with SatAM Robotnik to spice things up a bit =P

Oh and yes, Eggman will always be known as Robotnik to me! It was what I was brought up with and how it always will be

Edited May 8, 2011 by S o n i c

[Dr. Mechano]

The "insult" thing feels to me less like an error in translation and more like a method of introducing the name, so the change wouldn't be as abrupt as suddenly out of nowhere Robotnik starts calling himself Eggman. Obviously they wanted to bring the two canons in line, but I don't think that necessarily retcons any of what happened in the western-translated canon. Eggman took that insult and OWNED it XD Take that, hedgehog!

However, not to nitpick, but even in the western canon, one can't ignore the huge "EGGMAN" on Wing Fortress Zone. Are we to assume mohawked SoA Sonic was insulting eyeless SoA Robotnik with "Eggman" prior to Sonic 2? I suppose it's not impossible, if we're entertaining the theory that an SoA canon even still exists.

This opens up some issues though. If Eggman was calling himself Eggman even in the Genesis days, then why would he suddenly be upset about it again by the time of Adventure? Even in the English version of Sonic Drift 2, he was called Eggman, several years prior to Sonic Adventure. So this also means that even in the SoA canon, our SoA Robotnik had already taken to calling himself Eggman, along with the Wing Fortress evidence.

This was actually the first western manual to use the Eggman name. Though most people haven't played Sonic Drift 2 and assume Adventure is what introduced the name to English-speaking fans.

(Similarly is the fact that "Princess Peach" was first used in English in Yoshi's Safari, but only got wide recognition in Super Mario 64)

To me, I've never really been able to judge classic-era games Robotnik as it never gave him much personality.. And modern in-game Robotnik? Ugh, I can't stand him. His design's hideous, voice acting horrible, and most of all, I can't bare his personality.. For an evil genious, he's as much evil as I am lol Seriously, Robotnik needs a personality change- badly! The series could do with SatAM Robotnik to spice things up a bit =P

But drastically changing his personality would change who he is. SatAM Robotnik was based on Eggman, not the other way around. To make him become the derivative adaptation based on him would completely undo all the character development he's had over the years. Eggman has always been his own entity, and has never remotely resembled his cartoon counterpart.

Your post seems inconsistent too. You say that Eggman should be comical (like AoStH Robotnik), but then you shift gears and say that Eggman needs to be replaced by grimdark Julian, who's probably AoStH Robotnik's polar opposite. It isn't really clear what you want, is all I'm saying.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Dr. Mechano

[Flyboy Fox]

However, not to nitpick, but even in the western canon, one can't ignore the huge "EGGMAN" on Wing Fortress Zone. Or the fact that even in the English version of Sonic Drift 2, he was called Eggman, several years prior to Sonic Adventure.

This was actually the first western manual to use the Eggman name. Though most people haven't played Sonic Drift 2 and assume Adventure is what introduced the name to English-speaking fans.

(Similarly is the fact that "Princess Peach" was first used in English in Yoshi's Safari, but only got wide recognition in Super Mario 64)

Mm, this is true. It's inconsistent, to say the least, and a poor integration at best. All I'm really saying is that the western media for the most part deliberately referred to him as Robotnik until a decision was made to integrate the two into one basic canon. That doesn't change the fact that they kind of glossed over the hints at the Japanese canon that were inevitably still apparent in the games. But their original attempt to use Robotnik as his mainstream name was less a mistranslation and more a deliberate attempt at localisation that in the end didn't pan out. And the 'insult' thing was a (poorly executed, admittedly) way to try to solve the problem without retconning completely. At least that's how i see it.

In the end I suppose the individual fan can decide which version they want to accept as canon.

[Chooch]

If you show me a picture of the character and ask me "Who is this?" I'm going to say "Eggman."

"Eggman" is Ivo Robotnik's supervillain name. Much like Oswald Cobblepot goes by "The Penguin," or Leonard Snart goes by "Captain Cold," Ivo Robotnik's public appearances have him exclusively go by "Dr. Eggman." It's part of his villainous gimmick, and using his real name would sort of ruin the "egg" theme he's going for.

I'm not saying Eggman is an alias in the true sense; Everyone in the world knows who he is, and that he's Professor Gerald's grandson, so "Eggman" is not a means to hide his identity like some villainous names would be. But it is his "stage name" in a sense, out when he's launching evil schemes and trying to conquer the world.

This is essentially how I feel about the entire Eggman vs. Robotnik debacle. Calling him Eggman isn't 'wrong,' calling him Robotnik isn't 'wrong' either. They are perfectly acceptable either way. It just irks me when people feel the need to make a huge fuss about it or imply that either incorrect. The worst is when people say they 'changed his name' from Robotnik to Eggman and that it should be 'changed back'.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Chooch

[Dr. Mechano]

Mm, this is true. It's inconsistent, to say the least, and a poor integration at best. All I'm really saying is that the western media for the most part deliberately referred to him as Robotnik until a decision was made to integrate the two into one basic canon. That doesn't change the fact that they kind of glossed over the hints at the Japanese canon that were inevitably still apparent in the games. But their original attempt to use Robotnik as his mainstream name was less a mistranslation and more a deliberate attempt at localisation that in the end didn't pan out. And the 'insult' thing was a (poorly executed, admittedly) way to try to solve the problem without retconning completely. At least that's how i see it.

In the end I suppose the individual fan can decide which version they want to accept as canon.

Ah, let me clarify- I don't consider it a mistake or error of carelessness. I consider it deliberate, as you do. So no, it isn't a "mistranslation" in the sense that someone accidentally turned Eggman into an insult. I understand that just fine. I just consider it terribly inaccurate to the source material, and a clumsy attempt to bridge two incompatible continuities. Considering that, aside from the "Robotnik" surname, Sonic Team has pretty much disavowed the SoA storyline and accepts SoJ's plot as canon for all territories now, it makes this odd move stand out even more.

The individual can decide, I suppose. But individual interpretation doesn't really change the fact that SA1's naming explanations have never been acknowledged again, and that Eggman is acting as though that's always been his title (Which, in the original storyline, it was). SoA changed the boxart designs for Eggman too, but his in-game sprites were blatant evidence of what he really looked like, to use another example. The overwhelming in-game evidence often trumps clumsy attempts at localization changes.

I want to clarify this- Even though I disliked the western changes, I'm okay with Ivo Robotnik being his real name in all continuities now. I actually think it's kind of cool to know Eggman's real name! So I'm all for this expansion on his character. But the reason I almost never refer to him as "Robotnik" is that it has certain connotations- People tend to think I'm referring to one of the cartoon versions, or his darker and edgier SoA counterpart, even though the Robotnik name can equally describe SoJ Eggman nowadays. In a sense, using Eggman is a sort of shorthand to indicate which canon version of the doctor I'm talking about. (To most fans, "90s Robotnik" brings to mind images of a scary scowling man with serious eye problems, whilst "90s Eggman" almost exclusively brings the bouncy man in the clown suit and cool shades to mind, even though Robotnik could equally describe the latter as well)

[Chaosmaster8753]

This opens up some issues though. If Eggman was calling himself Eggman even in the Genesis days, then why would he suddenly be upset about it again by the time of Adventure? Even in the English version of Sonic Drift 2, he was called Eggman, several years prior to Sonic Adventure. So this also means that even in the SoA canon, our SoA Robotnik had already taken to calling himself Eggman, along with the Wing Fortress evidence.

This was actually the first western manual to use the Eggman name. Though most people haven't played Sonic Drift 2 and assume Adventure is what introduced the name to English-speaking fans.

(Similarly is the fact that "Princess Peach" was first used in English in Yoshi's Safari, but only got wide recognition in Super Mario 64)

Huh, I did not know that.

Your post seems inconsistent too. You say that Eggman should be comical (like AoStH Robotnik), but then you shift gears and say that Eggman needs to be replaced by grimdark Julian, who's probably AoStH Robotnik's polar opposite. It isn't really clear what you want, is all I'm saying.

Of course AoStH Robotnik and Julian are complete opposites.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Chaosmaster8753

[Flyboy Fox]

Ah, let me clarify- I don't consider it a mistake or error of carelessness. I consider it deliberate, as you do. So no, it isn't a "mistranslation" in the sense that someone accidentally turned Eggman into an insult. I understand that just fine. I just consider it terribly inaccurate to the source material, and a clumsy attempt to bridge two incompatible continuities. Considering that, aside from the "Robotnik" surname, Sonic Team has pretty much disavowed the SoA storyline and accepts SoJ's plot as canon for all territories now, it makes this odd move stand out even more.

The individual can decide, I suppose. But individual interpretation doesn't really change the fact that SA1's naming explanations have never been acknowledged again, and that Eggman is acting as though that's always been his title (Which, in the original storyline, it was). SoA changed the boxart designs for Eggman too, but his in-game sprites were blatant evidence of what he really looked like, to use another example. The overwhelming in-game evidence often trumps clumsy attempts at localization changes.

I want to clarify this- Even though I disliked the western changes, I'm okay with Ivo Robotnik being his real name in all continuities now. I actually think it's kind of cool to know Eggman's real name! So I'm all for this expansion on his character. But the reason I almost never refer to him as "Robotnik" is that it has certain connotations- People tend to think I'm referring to one of the cartoon versions, or his darker and edgier SoA counterpart, even though the Robotnik name can equally describe SoJ Eggman nowadays. In a sense, using Eggman is a sort of shorthand to indicate which canon version of the doctor I'm talking about. (To most fans, "90s Robotnik" brings to mind images of a scary scowling man with serious eye problems, whilst "90s Eggman" almost exclusively brings the bouncy man in the clown suit and cool shades to mind, even though Robotnik could equally describe the latter as well)

Well that's fair enough. I think we're even sort of almost on the same page about it, albeit just with individual preferences. Given that I'm most partial to his western spin-off incarnations, and I'm mostly a classic gamer, that lends me to a bias in which I feel like he's always been, and still is, 'Robotnik'. Whereas I guess that your partiality to the way it was laid out pre-westernisation and your appreciation of his modern incarnation would bias you towards feeling he's always been, and still is, 'Eggman'.

But I also agree that these days 'Robotnik' is almost a codeword for cartoon/early SoA game villain and Eggman is synonymous with his Japanese or current incarnation. Eggman is many different things to many different people XD A true master of disguise and deceiving appearances.

[Dr. Mechano]

Whereas I guess that your partiality to the way it was laid out pre-westernisation and your appreciation of his modern incarnation would bias you towards feeling he's always been, and still is, 'Eggman'.

I actually prefer his classic design. I think the little cape and shoepants made Eggman a lot cutesier than his current look. (Which presents an interesting dichotomy: To a western fan, "modern" Eggman got more cartoonish, and to a Japanese fan, modern Eggman got less cartoonish)

I'm okay with his modern look, but I can't help but reminisce over the old SA concept art where Eggman would've kept his classic look.

What might have been, eh?

[Flyboy Fox]

Haha, I kinda like that look myself, actually. He looks a bit more menacing (the head almost sunk right into the body leaving just the eyes, nose and epic 'tache peering out a bit unsettlingly), but still undeniably goofy (the ridiculously spherical body and scrawny chicken legs). I think I would have been happy with that, too ):

[Rusty Spy]

The design is only a little bit different from the final design, just stretch his abdomen a couple inches up and you've got the modern Eggman.

[crush40rocks]

Though I lean very much towards Robotnik because I respect the character (and he's probably my favorite Sonic character), I can live with both, because I know (or at least assume) that the reason he stuck with the name is because that's what people started calling him, so he adopted the name and started referring to himself by that name just to spite them. Heck, SA1 is where it all began. The Egg Hornet boss is really the point where this whole thing started, when Robotnik introduced himself as "Doctor Ivo Robotnik" and Sonic retorted by calling him "Eggman" (with emphasis), then the name stuck from there on out.

The name itself aside, why the hell did his ambition go from being called the Eggman Empire to Eggmanland?! I mean, come on, that even further retards the intimidation factor.

Sonic Unleashed:

"At long last, Eggmanland will finally come to be!"

Me:

*Facepalm*