Thoughts On The Sonic Fanbase...

[DarkLight]

Oh be quiet and stop instigating, it ain't that serious, he came at me in a way i didn't like, so he ate one big deal, as if you people don't do the same, psh.

*Sigh*

I don't see how you can tell me what to do when you already got some flak not too long ago.

I'm not going through this again.

Edited February 8, 2011 by DragonSoul

[HeroMystic]

Did i say it was beacuse of sonic adventure?

Reading your original post it's very easy to interpret you blame it on the new wave of fans that came during the Sonic Adventure era.

[Too cool for school]

well if you see a pattern then it is what it is. But no, i wasn't saying that, i simply said it started around that era.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Too cool for school

[Shade Vortex]

I honestly think the majority of the fanbase is pretty terrible, due to being so divided. It seems in addition to that, many people disrespect opinions and start up shit over nothing frequently.

However, the fanbase isn't all bad. There are good apples here and there, people who can respect opinions and get along with most of the other people in the fanbase and even find similarities between them in order to level with them on the same level in a discussion. Maybe someday the rest of the fans will follow suit.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

well if you see a pattern then it is what it is. But no, i wasn't saying that, i simply said it started around that era.

It actually started much later than that. There were fractures during the Adventure era, that much can't be denied, but things were still fine in that period that people still enjoyed the games.

The fanbase got fully shattered during Heroes-ShTH. Trust me, both Marco and I have been around during that exact time long enough to know. The only person I fully know who's been around longer other than the admins would be Tornado.

Edited February 9, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Chooch]

You have your smart ones, you have your dumb ones, you have your asses, you have your smart asses, you have your dumb asses..

Hmm.. Sounds like every other fandom in the universe to me.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Chooch

[Tornado]

well if you see a pattern then it is what it is. But no, i wasn't saying that, i simply said it started around that era.

It really didn't. It started years later. All the way up through Heroes, the Sonic fanbase was almost entirely sunshine and rainbows. And Sonic, while on something of a decline critically, was still a highly respected series inside and outside of the fanbase (for as much indifference that the game gets today, Heroes was an insanely popular and well-received game when it came out, and it got tons of media attention while it was in development). I can even distinctly remember how ecstatic this board was on the first day that Sonic X aired, for example. There were grumbles, of course, but the greatest extent that the fanbase was seriously divided at the time was whether Sonic X was better than SatAM (seriously), or about how Shadow should have stayed dead in Adventure 2 or not (this one had grave implications, as well). Hell, things were so positive that I didn't even loathe Sonic Advance 3!

I can even tell you exactly when (almost literally to the specific day, even) the fanbase imploded with anger (at each other and at Sega). And it had essentially nothing to do with the Adventure games. Perhaps it was building up over the years (and the Shadow hatred certainly had been), but it was ultimately Sega who piledrived the series into what it is today, and them pissing on the broken remains with STH '06 didn't make anything better.

Stepping away from that:

Oh be quiet and stop instigating, it ain't that serious, he came at me in a way i didn't like, so he ate one big deal, as if you people don't do the same, psh.

No, actually. When I see a post that I disagree with, I generally refrain from telling the person who wrote it to "shut the fuck up."

Mario, Luigi and Yoshi trek across ice and snow to stop the shelled ones' schemes. But Bowser's slick; in one last trick, he takes the dearest thing of all. Now Tornado is Missing!!

Edited February 9, 2011 by Tornado

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Told ya. Tornado is pretty much the only person other than the mods to be more knowledgable about where the fanbase split than I am.

I came in several months before I inevitably became a part of the fandumb that started tearing at each other when ShTH came around the corner; it's even more significant that I actually praised the game's idea at the time, but I was a really young teenager who didn't really know better.

[Ferno]

It's times like this when I really feel like a young whipper-snapper since I didn't get into the fanbase until around late '06. I came in when things were already a war zone, and have no memory of a time when things were at peace. :<

[Nova]

Just going to take this time to say, Too cool for school is summing up everything that I feel is wrong with the community as it stands. Kneejerk reactions, ad hominem attacks and excessively defensive behaviour. Seriously man, chill, people aren't out to make you look an ass, but you're doing a perfectly good job of that yourself. Telling people to 'be quiet' and to 'shut the fuck up' (that cheeky edit won't hide anything) is considered bad form by the majority, so it would be wise not to accuse people of acting in a similar fashion.

Also, I've been around in the community since late 2002 and ChaosSupremeSonic speaks truly about when some really major splits happened, though I wouldn't say they were all in relation to those games. The splits that occurred in the earlier days of Sonic CulT spring to mind, specifically the Sonic CulT vs. SSRG incident. The fanbase is generally a lot more unified now and this is partly due to inter-site bickering being reduced to nothing more than background noise. I'm actually happy with where we're at now, as people have different enough opinions to allow good discussions to form but not so wildly varying that major drama happens anywhere near as frequently as it used to.

[HeroMystic]

It's times like this when I really feel like a young whipper-snapper since I didn't get into the fanbase until around late '06. I came in when things were already a war zone, and have no memory of a time when things were at peace. :<

I've been on forums ever since 2000, but never been to a Sonic-dedicated site(in other words, here) until 2005. I can confidently say things were relatively positive to the majority until ShadowTH debuted, but I don't know if it was during it's development or right when the game came out and everyone wanted to kill it with a stick. The SEGA of America forums (the closest Sonic-dedicated forum I've been to before here) was pretty hectic when I first joined in 2005 right after ShadowTH came out. Your words had to be used carefully, especially if you were a Shadow fan. I'm a Shadow fan, but everyone liked me there because I was an even bigger Knuckles fan and I played the classics, which made me an outlier.

Obviously the Sonic Stadium were much more civilized (with much more active moderators), but that only made arguments much more impacting here. What lasts for only five pages in Sega of America forums it can last for 20+ pages here.

The way how it is now is closer to what it is before ShTH, but it isn't anywhere near to the "sunshine and rainbows".

[Tornado]

It started when the game was announced. It just got considerably worse when the game came out. Anti-Shadow sentiment had been stewing and building up more and more after Heroes came out (to the extent that it probably would have blown up eventually anyways), due to a combination of dislike of the series apparent focus on him and because of the frequent assertion that Sonic Heroes "ruined Adventure 2's story." When ShtH was announced it basically exploded outwards.

And Shadow himself was only the start. Many, many people wrote off the game simply because of the concept, which led to fighting (this is also something that got considerably worse when the game came out). It was the first game that was viewed as being shit outside the fanbase, which led to fighting. This also marks the point where Sega randomly tossed out the entire voice cast for the 4Kids cast (without actually telling them), which led to fighting (as a bonus, this led to people hating Sonic X by association, which led to fighting). Also, while the fanbase had fought in the past, it generally was due to fansite rivalry. It wasn't until ShtH came out that the fanbase started fighting over and tearing apart the games specifically (this is also why so many fans hate Iizuka so much), and ShtH basically kicked down the whole tower.

Mario, Luigi and Yoshi trek across ice and snow to stop the shelled ones' schemes. But Bowser's slick; in one last trick, he takes the dearest thing of all. Now Tornado is Missing!!

Edited February 9, 2011 by Tornado

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Your words had to be used carefully, especially if you were a Shadow fan. I'm a Shadow fan, but everyone liked me there because I was an even bigger Knuckles fan and I played the classics, which made me an outlier.

...

Ya know, I'm trying to remember exactly why I was liked here. I played the Classics and loved them, but I defended the hell out of modern releases before I became more objective as time went by.

I definitely know it wasn't my heavy defending of Shadow, that was actually one of the reasons I was feared/avoided/targeted depending on the person.

My open-mindedness maybe?

Obviously the Sonic Stadium were much more civilized (with much more active moderators), but that only made arguments much more impacting here. What lasts for only five pages in Sega of America forums it can last for 20+ pages here.

I'd say it's because a good number of us are much more critical and objective than those on the Sega of America forums.

There's a lot more thought that goes into what could possibly be considered within Sonic games in the future as opposed to being too conservative against some new ideas or jumping off the cliff with whatever goes in your head. In addition to that (and partially because of me ), people here are a bit more careful with talking about having only Classic characters such as Knuckles because if you use your words the wrong way people can jump on you almost as hard as they would on characters such as Shadow.

That and we tend to be very allergic to bullshit.

[Scarred Sun]

The idea of a unified fanbase that didn't have issues and arguments at one point in time and having rose-tinted glasses about some idyllic time in the past is absolutely laughable.

It's been this way more or less since day one, like every other fanbase on the planet.

There will always be a few annoying voices, but for some reason everyone would like to make those few voices represent Sonic fans as a bloc. The more things change, the more they stay the exact same.

[ArtFenix]

so kick back and shut the hell up.

our fanbase is an embarrasment, unfortunatley.

..and i can clearly see why.

The other words i was going to say, you guys have already said. Thanks for support.^^

[HeroMystic]

It's been this way more or less since day one, like every other fanbase on the planet.

Not really. The Sonic fanbase was a pretty knit group before Shadow the Hedgehog came out. After that the fractures became pretty deep and started to go beyond just differences in opinions (VA death threats anyone?). The only other fanbase that came close to that level is the Smash Brothers fanbase, but that one is more isolated and less vocal.

My open-mindedness maybe?

It's pretty much for the same reason as said afterwards, this forum is more objective than any other fansite, so being vocal in your opinion didn't thrash one as hard (though there was still thrashing), and despite being a Shadow fan, you were able to admit faults about the character. Above all else though intelligence often trumps any type of stereotype.

Of course though we were homebois back then so I'm biased.

[Tornado]

the gaminig community as a whole is completely right about not only this fanbase but also this site, its got loser ass nintendo fans in it

I loled!

The idea of a unified fanbase that didn't have issues and arguments at one point in time and having rose-tinted glasses about some idyllic time in the past is absolutely laughable.

It sounds corny and stupid, but that is absolutely the way it was. The stuff that happens now? The "every positive topic is countered by two negative topics" stuff that happens whenever something is announced? The 40 page mega threads talking about why Sonic game X wasn't as good/bad as everyone said it was? The complaining about people complaining about people complaining about people complaining? The tendency for any topic remotely related to Iizuka to end up having a dozen posts calling for his head? None of that stuff happened. It simply did not.

Shadow the Hedgehog (the character, the game, and the stuff that happened at Sega while it was in development) basically blew apart the entire fanbase. When ShtH came out, everyone got a whole lot more serious and outspoken with their views; and most of the stereotypes that the fanbase is labeled with (as well as most of the lines that divide the fanbase) were directly planted by that game.

Mario, Luigi and Yoshi trek across ice and snow to stop the shelled ones' schemes. But Bowser's slick; in one last trick, he takes the dearest thing of all. Now Tornado is Missing!!

Edited February 9, 2011 by Tornado

[SonikkuJeneshisu89]

The Sonic fan base.....is unbelievably divided and nobody can be happy with anything. You have your Sonic comic geeks, some are so hardcore they refuse to play any of the Sonic games and refuse to call the games cannon. You have furies and people who dig bestiality, you have fans dressing up as Sonic and pretending to be him. Fans who love making inappropriate sexual artwork on DeviantArt lol, you have whiners and crybaby's making a fuss about little changes such as eye color and long legs.

You have Retro Sonic fans who refuse to play any of the new Sonic games and automatically consider them garbage, while also having New Gen Sonic fans who refuse to play the Retro Sonic games and consider them garbage. You will have many heated debates over Retro Vs New Gen games for hours. Fans who go out of their way to find something to complain about, you will have very passionate fans who just love Sonic and don't complain while you will have fans who won't be reasonable and are always miserable.

There's some really creepy people who are Sonic fans while there are normal people. Young and old fans, emo cut themselves fanatic fan girls obsessing over Shadow and wanting his babies. You can have your intellectual Sonic fans while also encountering very immature not so intellectual fans. Everyone is miserable and everyone complains about every little thing whether its Sonic's eyes and legs, fur color, game music, whether the game is 2D perspective or 3D perspective there is always something for someone to find to complain about.

Then theres the Sonic Vs Mario fan wars and Sonic fan girls drawing Sonic yaoi all day. There are also creepy RPGer's out there that love role playing as Sonic characters and getting heavily into it. You have Archie Comic's Vs Fleetway Comic's fan wars also. Theres so much division and so much going on, so many different types of people and fans out there. At least the Sonic fan base will always be the most diverse and interesting one. I wasn't active in Sonic Communities until fairly recently and these are some of the reasons why. I'm the kind of fan that just loves Sonic plain and simple, New Gen or Retro I don't care lol. I'm probably the easiest Sonic fan to please.

[Nova]

Okay, I'm finally going to speak up about the idea that Shadow The Hedgehog massively split the fanbase now. No. It didn't. It created some drama where a lot of people on a lot of forums were having a lot of arguments. There were no massive, sweeping changes bought about by the game at all. Purists got angry, Shadow fans defended the game to the hilt, everyone else just went 'derp'.

The scene was a far, far more volatile place further back. Fansite wars did far more damage to this community than you give them credit for. In a way, what happened back then shaped the sites we have today. Many people made a name for themselves on being assholes and that happens far less frequently these days then it did way before Shadow The Hedgehog was even a glint in Sega's eye. Read up on some of the older community haunts like Sonic 2 Beta, Sonic CulT, SSRG and Area 51. Hacking was rife, webmasters were at each other's throats and they weren't afraid to drag their entire communities with them.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Nova

[Tornado]

Tight-knit probably isn't the correct word to describe it (because there was a lot of loyalty to specific fan sites at the time, and I know what happened when that shit was going on), but his basic point is accurate. The way the fanbase is now is almost nothing like it was before ShtH came out.

It created some drama where a lot of people on a lot of forums were having a lot of arguments. There were no massive, sweeping changes bought about by the game at all. Purists got angry, Shadow fans defended the game to the hilt, everyone else just went 'derp'.

Here's the thing, though: Those arguments never stopped happening. It wasn't some small speedbump that came and went. Those debates raged for years, evolving and changing (some more than others) to the exact things that the fanbase fights about today.

Fansite wars did far more damage to this community than you give them credit for.

I know exactly what was going on. Before joining SSMB in September of '03, I had been lurking Sonic sites for a year or so getting a feel of things. But that is an altogether different thing than what we have today, and is completely detached from what the casual observer (or dickhead journalist) thinks when he hears the word "Sonic Fanbase." Those were a battle of egos more than they were a battle over opinions.

In a way, what happened back then shaped the sites we have today. Many people made a name for themselves on being assholes and that happens far less frequently these days then it did way before Shadow The Hedgehog was even a glint in Sega's eye.

An awful lot of those guys burnt out in the process, though. For example, I think Andy dropped off the face of the Earth at the end of the internal war at SSRG.

Read up on some of the older community haunts like Sonic 2 Beta, Sonic CulT, SSRG and Area 51. Hacking was rife, webmasters were at each other's throats and they weren't afraid to drag their entire communities with them.

I'm aware of all of this as well. I have to say, though, that I think you are lending too much credence to the impact that those turn-of-the-decade wars actually had. Sure, the sites that are around today are largely the ones that survived those 3-to-4-way bloodbaths, but after 2002/2003 it was largely just the same people going at it (the only exception to this would probably be that mess that happened at Sonic 2 Beta in 2007).

A bit like saying that the American Revolution was a cause of the War in Iraq, for example. It may have technically put the required pieces in place, but it didn't put in the catalyst that made those pieces spark.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying those things didn't happen. But that stuff (or at least the most vicious of it) basically stopped happening by 2003. And after that stuff stopped happening, there was a period of time where the fanbase was fairly unified. And, in regards to how the fanbase is today, it was ShtH that changed all that.

Mario, Luigi and Yoshi trek across ice and snow to stop the shelled ones' schemes. But Bowser's slick; in one last trick, he takes the dearest thing of all. Now Tornado is Missing!!

Edited February 9, 2011 by Tornado

[Ferno]

Whoa man. To me, I'm like a kid in history class right now learning about WWII. I wasn't there, but I'm hearing about it from the few old-timers that are left from the period, which is pretty cool to say the least.

This is my last post on this site

*Noted*

Edited February 9, 2011 by Inferno

[Slingerland]

This thread is stupid. None of you goons have been around long enough to know what the past was like and your opinions on the fanbase are all painted by the outsiders looking in who get on their blogs, yelling "hurr durr Sonic community."

Get on the Internet with any other group of people. You're going to encounter the same issues. Large group of people -> many opinions -> disagreement. Go check it out. It's pretty cool, bro. The issues are just magnified with stupidity in the Sonic community because most of you guys are, like, in your teens and the games aren't performing very well.

This thread should have ended here:

The idea of a unified fanbase that didn't have issues and arguments at one point in time and having rose-tinted glasses about some idyllic time in the past is absolutely laughable.

It's been this way more or less since day one, like every other fanbase on the planet.

There will always be a few annoying voices, but for some reason everyone would like to make those few voices represent Sonic fans as a bloc. The more things change, the more they stay the exact same.

Sonic is the Toronto Maple Leafs of video games, I swear.

[Scarred Sun]

Not really. The Sonic fanbase was a pretty knit group before Shadow the Hedgehog came out. After that the fractures became pretty deep and started to go beyond just differences in opinions (VA death threats anyone?). The only other fanbase that came close to that level is the Smash Brothers fanbase, but that one is more isolated and less vocal.

This is adorably ignorant. I see you have...a 09 registration date? Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've been around since Shadow the Hedgehog was discussed?

Well, see, I remember when everyone whined over Ryan Drummond's voice acting in Sonic Adventure and how ~horrible~ Sonic Adventure 2 was.

And if we want to get REALLY old-school, I'd be happy to bring up the Usenet posts raging over Sonic 3.

Slingerland's absolutely right--you are only parroting what a few people think the ways of the Internet are. Hint: They're making fun of you guys. Disregard them. It's time to close the thread. If you would, moderators?

[Tornado]

This is adorably ignorant. I see you have...a 09 registration date?

You do realize that everyone has an '09 registration date, correct?

Mario, Luigi and Yoshi trek across ice and snow to stop the shelled ones' schemes. But Bowser's slick; in one last trick, he takes the dearest thing of all. Now Tornado is Missing!!

Edited February 10, 2011 by Tornado

[Ferno]

You do realize that everyone has an '09 registration date, correct?

I lol'd. It's so ironic too, as you've actually had have been here long enough to know why that is, which says something.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Inferno