Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[SonicComicFanboy]

15 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

The trouble  is that I think the brand cohesion of Sonic is judged by Sonic Team in a different way to how Mickey Mouse is judged by Disney or Hello Kitty is judged by Sanrio. Sonic is more similar to the Super Mario series, and even that's been parred down to one or two consistent brand images at the ire of a portion of fans despite said branches being far more popular than the Archie Sonic series (The sports games since Power Tennis onwards, Paper Mario since Sticker Star onwards, Mario and Luigi may have succumb to it with Paper Jam). 

 Well Nintendo is arguably still trying with the Sports games, we do have the Sports Mix or whatever its called for 3DS coming up, heck its even getting its own series of Amiibo cards!  But yea I do agree it sucks how Paper Mario has been getting a raw deal for years (they should totally put him in the next Smash Bros. game!)  As for Mario & Luigi, i'm still cautiously optimistic.

 

 But yea, SEGA & Sonic Team may view brand cohesion in a different way, but if they truly want Sonic to stay popular or even gain popularity again, they need to have a more lax approach like they did in the 90's.   In terms of games if they want to limit gamplay style to a handful of main types, sure that's fine, but for the brand as a whole, they would be better off letting it take as many shapes as possible to maintain public awareness IMO.

 

 

[Your Vest Friend]

With the sports games, I was referring to how they got rid of the campaign mode for human players in lieu of just making it tennis matches with Mario characters. If you go back and play Mario Tennis (especially GBC), I think you'd be shocked at how little Mario is in it.

And that's part of the problem the 90's attitude had; you had all these products, but the way they defined Sonic varied so wildly from the source that they ended up not at all reflecting anything of the games, and that did not help (and SoJ/Sonic Team didn't like parts of it either). There were plenty of game fans who watched the show and bought the comic because "OMG Sonic!", but I've found that it doesn't go both ways; those just fans of the show or the comic didn't really pick up the games because they were so different, so you ended up with parts of a franchise with cult fanbases that couldn't be catered to by the mainline stuff (pre-reboot Archie and SatAM are the worst offenders for that). What they're doing now with Boom and Post-reboot is a compromise on the old attitude, and one that's not been super successful so far. 

[Borvoc]

12 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Or maybe they don't care? Just because people are more upset doesn't mean they are entitled... maybe they are just upset. And if they were deriving and enjoyment of a thing, and that thing is gone, being upset is normal. I'm not for implying that anyone having any type of desire is " entitled" that doesn't do much for any type of welcome discussion. 

I merely mean that outrage and anger imply being wronged, where as Sega and Archie haven't wronged us as long as they give us what we pay for, stop charging us if and when they stop providing what we're paying for, and refund us for anything we pay for that they can't or don't provide.

Since good Sonic comics are something I want but am not in any way owed or entitled to (again, beyond what I pay for and am not refunded for), it's more appropriate for me to be sad or disappointed about a possible cancellation and to remain appropriately respectful to both Sega and Archie in either case (why burn bridges either way?).

I suppose the more disappointed, as opposed to outraged, response from fans regarding the possible cancellation could be less maturity and more apathy related to the reasons you stated. I just wanted to point out the possibility. Sonic comics are the only comics I currently read, and I enjoy them. I'd be sad if they're cancelled anytime soon, but I'm not going to lash out at Archie or Sega either, because I don't feel that's appropriate.

12 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Maybe people just didn't really are about the sonic comic that much anymore, sales had gone down and I know a lot of people who had jumped off long before the reboot.

12 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

And given the last few years have seen sales go down by thousands less people are showing up.

I'm sure there are people who have dropped off for one reason or another, but I thought Ian said that sales were as strong as ever. Supposedly, not even the Mega Man comic was cancelled due to low sales, right?

1 hour ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

But yea, SEGA & Sonic Team may view brand cohesion in a different way, but if they truly want Sonic to stay popular or even gain popularity again, they need to have a more lax approach like they did in the 90's.   In terms of games if they want to limit gamplay style to a handful of main types, sure that's fine, but for the brand as a whole, they would be better off letting it take as many shapes as possible to maintain public awareness IMO.

This becomes even more the case when a licensee is presenting the license in a more internally-cohesive way than the licensor, Sega, has been doing so itself recently. I like how Sega keeps Archie in check to some extent, but I also think Sega could learn something about how Archie represents the characters and tells their stories.

1 minute ago, VEDJ-F said:

With the sports games, I was referring to how they got rid of the campaign mode for human players in lieu of just making it tennis matches with Mario characters. If you go back and play Mario Tennis (especially GBC), I think you'd be shocked at how little Mario is in it.

Yeah. I personal prefer a balance where exploration is allowed and even encouraged when it works but where creativity isn't allowed to take things too far off the rails either. It could be argued that Nintendo has reigned things in too far with not allowing Paper Mario to be an RPG anymore or to invent new characters as well as taking a lot of the personality and extra stuff out of the Mario Tennis games.

It would also seem that exploratory choices made by licensees would be entail less risk on a part of a licensor, so it would make more sense to me if Sega were to encourage an amount of exploration on the part of the Archie comics (to an extent) in order to see what works and steal certain aspects that work for their own games.

[Graystripe2000]

All Sonic comic shipments delayed till April. 

http://soahcity.com/2017/01/30/sonic-comics-delayed-until-april-2017/

[Your Vest Friend]

That article is basically assuming things based on very few scraps of info. It's not correct. 

[SonicComicFanboy]

4 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

That article is basically assuming things based on very few scraps of info. It's not correct. 

  Yea, basically more over reacting & conclusion jumping by the fanbase

[Your Vest Friend]

My ire with it is more that it's getting the delay info wrong (StH#291 is still set for March 1st, whether it comes out on that date is yet to be see), and while we don't know the cause just yet, Penders' legal case was settled years ago so it won't be that (even the Fulop case would be a more likely cause, and that's only because it's more recent). 

[Graystripe2000]

Another source says the same thing. TSSZ is trying to independently confirm this.

https://www.flayrah.com/6827/archie-sonic-hedgehog-comic-licencing-woes-caused-cancellation-fears

[Tracker_TD]

That's not another source; SoaH just took that post and re-worded it without sourcing it.

Furthermore after following the links, it's clear the "Cease and Desist" line comes from interpreting VEDJ-F's mention of the Cease and Desist rumour as fact. Which while I do think the chance of a C&D is likely, isn't fact as SoaH and Flayrah claim. 

[NikoS]

8 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Edit to be short: Give me numbers, I want this book to do well. I have story lines to complete give me numbers. I love Ian as much as the next guy but that's not a number and as a financial interest in both companies involved. Give me numbers. If its doing well, I'll say its doing well. But I need numbers, do you have them, I would like them

I do agree with you here, i'd like real subscriptions numbers as well, i just said that because i saw no reason for him to bring this info if it wasn't accurate, but i do see your point.

[Your Vest Friend]

2 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

That's not another source; SoaH just took that post and re-worded it without sourcing it.

Furthermore after following the links, it's clear the "Cease and Desist" line comes from interpreting VEDJ-F's mention of the Cease and Desist rumour as fact. Which while I do think the chance of a C&D is likely, isn't fact as SoaH and Flayrah claim. 

Which is weird considering that same rumour specified a cause, and it wasn't a licence renewal problem. 

[ContinuityFlubs]

The release dates were changes on Previews World.

SU #95: https://www.previewsworld.com/Catalog/DEC161283

StH #291: https://previewsworld.com/Catalog/NOV161172

Edit: Only SU #95's release date was changed.

[YamiMario]

Well, if the release date keeps changing, that should be a good thing, right? Means that they're actively figuring out an actual date these will come out on?

[SonicComicFanboy]

27 minutes ago, YamiMario said:

Well, if the release date keeps changing, that should be a good thing, right? Means that they're actively figuring out an actual date these will come out on?

 Good as in they will actually come out.  But bad as in we have to wait longer then we should.  So it's a mixed bag.

[YamiMario]

At this point, I'd say a delay is great if that's what they need to fix out whatever issue is going on.

[Your Vest Friend]

Dates changing constantly was what happened to the graphic novels of the pre-reboot that never came out, so it's not a sign that's inherently good or bad. 

Edit: PS Speaking of updates on changing things, you can still find Sonic comics in the comic section and all the comics and graphic novels by searching, but the actual Sonic and Mega Man section in the Graphic Novels index appears to have disappeared. Maybe related to the sale if they don't want it in that, or maybe I'm just not seeing it. 

[RingtailedFox]

Heya, eveyone... RingtailedFox here from FlayrahNews... I wrote the article about the comic's recent publication issues, though i did sit on the story for about a week before publishing, because I was worried about jumping the gun or not having my story straight.  So..... I'm reaching out to the community here to let me know if there are any inaccuracies, to please let em know so I can correct them.  I don't want to spread false data or get anyone in hot water.

[Tylinos]

8 minutes ago, RingtailedFox said:

Heya, eveyone... RingtailedFox here from FlayrahNews... I wrote the article about the comic's recent publication issues, though i did sit on the story for about a week before publishing, because I was worried about jumping the gun or not having my story straight.  So..... I'm reaching out to the community here to let me know if there are any inaccuracies, to please let em know so I can correct them.  I don't want to spread false data or get anyone in hot water.

The main thing that stood out to me was the line about the "fire sale".  Like I said earlier in the thread, that was misinformation that started because Ken Penders took a quick glance at Archie's store and made an assumption, and the phrase spread like wildfire from there.  In reality, the same sale is being held on both Sonic books and Archie's own books.

[RingtailedFox]

2 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

The main thing that stood out to me was the line about the "fire sale".  Like I said earlier in the thread, that was misinformation that started because Ken Penders took a quick glance at Archie's store and made an assumption.  In reality, the same sale is being held on both Sonic books and Archie's own books.

i've clarified the article to explain that it was a site-wide sale on both Sonic and Archie's original offerings as well... I expect to do more clarifications and updates, so keep 'em coming! Misinformation is my enemy and I intend to slay it. 

[Your Vest Friend]

Okay, so a basic timeline of what's happened so far;

• December 28th - I posted the rumour of Archie cancelling Sonic due to SoJ strong-arming the franchise. As of yet, whether that's related to the events going on has yet to be seen, so shouldn't be counted as evidence of anything. 
• January 15th - A user notices that subscriptions for Sonic are not available on the website.
• January 17th - Another user phones Archie customer service about it, and the rep says that absence of the subs could possibly mean cancellation, and that Sonic #290 would be the last issue out for the main comic.
• January 17th - Later callers are told instead that the subs are just temporarily offline (they're still down 14 days later for reference). 
• After January 17th - A 70% sale on Sonic and Mega Man happens, but the rest of the Archie catalogue are also in the fire sale so it being a sign of anything is dubious. 
• After January 17th - The upcoming comics are given pushed back dates, so StH#291 does not release when scheduled (which was January 25th).
• After January 17th - The Sonic FCBD issue and Sonic Super Digest #18 are both killed off, a Riverdale FCBD replacing the former. With Riverdale being Archie's big thing currently and SSD#18 being in turmoil for months, it's unknown if this is related. 
• January 23rd - Solicits for Archie are posted and include Sonic amongst them.

Archie have not commented on any of this at all, and haven't talked about or promoted Sonic on their Twitter since January 11th, when SU#94 came out. 

Currently I'd say it's inconclusive until further notice. 

[RingtailedFox]

1 minute ago, VEDJ-F said:

Okay, so a basic timeline of what's happened so far;

• December 28th - I posted the rumour of Archie cancelling Sonic due to SoJ strong-arming the franchise. As of yet, whether that's related to the events going on has yet to be seen, so shouldn't be counted as evidence of anything. 
• January 15th - A user notices that subscriptions for Sonic are not available on the website.
• January 17th - Another user phones Archie customer service about it, and the rep says that absence of the subs could possibly mean cancellation, and that Sonic #290 would be the last issue out for the main comic.
• January 17th - Later callers are told instead that the subs are just temporarily offline (they're still down 14 days later for reference). 
• After January 17th - A 70% sale on Sonic and Mega Man happens, but the rest of the Archie catalogue are also in the fire sale so it being a sign of anything is dubious. 
• After January 17th - The Sonic FCBD issue and Sonic Super Digest #18 are both killed off, a Riverdale FCBD replacing the former. With Riverdale being Archie's big thing currently and SSD#18 being in turmoil for months, it's unknown if this is related. 
• January 23rd - Solicits for Archie are posted and include Sonic amongst them.
• January 30th - The graphic novel section for Sonic and Mega Man has seemingly disappeared off the official site, although the graphic novels can still be found on the site. 

Archie have not commented on any of this at all, and haven't talked about or promoted Sonic on their Twitter since January 11th, when SU#94 came out. 

Currently I'd say it's inconclusive until further notice. 

The editor and I tried to maintain a neutral "currently inconclusive until otherwise proven" position on this.  Would you allow me permission to copy that timeline to a story update at the bottom of the article?

[Tylinos]

3 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

• January 30th - The graphic novel section for Sonic and Mega Man has seemingly disappeared off the official site, although the graphic novels can still be found on the site. 

Wait, do you mean the Archie main website, or the Archie store?  Because the Sonic and Mega Man Graphic Novel section of the store is still in the same place it's been this whole time.

[Your Vest Friend]

 

1 minute ago, Tylinos said:

Wait, do you mean the Archie main website, or the Archie store?  Because the Sonic and Mega Man Graphic Novel section of the store is still in the same place it's been this whole time.

I'm looking in the store, and it's not showing up on the Graphic Novel index for me, which is why I asked others to check earlier. 

[NikoS]

10 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

January 30th - The graphic novel section for Sonic and Mega Man has seemingly disappeared off the official site, although the graphic novels can still be found on the site.

sorry, but i just checked and the GN section is there,

 

Edit - saw your post now, took a while to refresh on my browser

[Tylinos]

Just now, VEDJ-F said:

I'm looking in the store, and it's not showing up on the Graphic Novel index for me, which is why I asked others to check earlier. 

It's in the Sonic and Mega Man section of the store, which is where it's been since the whole store overhaul happened.  They haven't been in the main Graphic Novels section.