The Fallen Cast...

[Eh Luigi]

This is where we disagree then. Shadow relied heavily on his past as a character. Because of his the serious nature of his story in a kids game, it needs to be handled carefully or it turns into a bad sci-fi flick. If Knuckles had some tragic element added to his past I'd feel the same way.

I disagree, Shadow past is one of the aspects of his characters intrigue. The main appeal to Shadow is his contrast to Sonic and his more violent and competitive perspective to situations. Shadow doens't need to focus on the past to build his characters purpose. He's got Super Speed, Chaos Powers and a power lusting arrogance to fall back on.

[Nepenthe]

The developers shouldn't have tried to go off of Halo. 'Tis all I'm sayin'.

I've always wondered how he got amnesia if Eggman's robot had saved him, it would've made more sense if he had hit the ground. Sonic hit the ground head first once before, although ironically he didn't get amnesia. Both of them would've hit the ground at the same speed, so...you know what, I'm not even going to get into the science of all that.

I'd say if it weren't for the Black Arms, Shadow would've been a more ambiguous character in terms of who's side he would've been on. After their invasion, it almost cemented Shadow as being more of a hero than any anti-hero, although hopefully at some point he could still be an anti-hero.

You think it was Halo-ish? Beyond aliens and guns, that's really it for me.

But on the subject of the fall, remember that Sonic was never kidnapped by Eggman and experimented on afterwards. Considering the clones have this identity complex, I wouldn't be surprised if Eggman tampered with Shadow's neurological functions, but ultimately who knows what happened to Shadow after it was all said and done?

As for his moral standing, it never really was that ambiguous anyways. Shadow has the capacity to do some pretty bad things, but twice in a row he ultimately helped the other heroes save the day. His game wasn't really treading any new ground in that department. Considering Earth can't canonically implode as a rule, it ensures that Shadow will always have the capacity to put his vendettas aside for the greater good.

[Rusty Spy]

I've always wondered how he got amnesia if Eggman's robot had saved him, it would've made more sense if he had hit the ground. Sonic hit the ground head first once before, although ironically he didn't get amnesia. Both of them would've hit the ground at the same speed, so...you know what, I'm not even going to get into the science of all that.

We never know if he hit the ground or not, but more evidence points towards the former being more likely. Eggman left for Earth several minutes after Shadow's fall, not to mention he probably had no clue that Shadow would still be alive somewhere on the surface, it's more likely that he happened upon him, or better yet, counted on Shadow surviving and went on a search party for his body.

The stress from using up all his energy and re-entering the atmosphere sounds like reasonable enough trauma to cause some damage.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You think it was Halo-ish? Beyond aliens and guns, that's really it for me.

Guns, Aliens, Vehicles, Orbital Bombardment, etc. It's more than enough for me to think of it that way, not that I actually care too much. It's just fun to make that statement.

As for his moral standing, it never really was that ambiguous anyways. Shadow has the capacity to do some pretty bad things, but twice in a row he ultimately helped the other heroes save the day. His game wasn't really treading any new ground in that department. Considering Earth can't canonically implode as a rule, it ensures that Shadow will always have the capacity to put his vendettas aside for the greater good.

I'm not against Shadow putting his vendettas aside for the greater good, but it's just interesting to see Shadow play both roles as a villain/obstacle and a hero.

Him being the general anti-hero of the series opens up so many doors for him to go through. He could be an ally at one point and raise hell on the field in order to help you progress furthur or he could be the fight of your life if he's against you. I know your the last person for me to say that there's so much for him that he'll never get stale...but I'll say it anyway, there's so much for him that he'll never get stale.

It's kind of ironic when I say that, as I see him like Silver; his involvement serves as an omen in gauging how serious the forces at play are. Not that it limits his appearance only in really serious situations, but that him appearing too often may lessen the impact as a form of omnious sign in the series...provided it is never handled like ShTH, although after the reception that game got I doubt that will happen again. Of course, that's just typical me here.

But really, I want to see him play some villianious roles alongside his heroic ones more often.

[Phos]

A North Korea film being played by CGI animals is now the same as one character of six having a tragic backdrop to serve as his motivation? SA2 is significantly comparable to Tom Clancy? These are quite the overt false equivalences, and one reason why I don't align myself with most people who say most of anything of Shadow's is too much for the series to properly support. It's just as over-the-top as they accuse Shadow of being.

Most Tom Clancy stories involve someone stealing nukes or something to threaten the world with (And there's maybe some kind of political conspiracy). That's basically what went on in SA 2. The hypothetical "way too real Bug's Life" also has a great deal in common with the actual Bug's Life, they are both a group of people who could overthrow their tyrannical leader if they were to work together for such a cause. The real one just uses a colony of ants as an allegory for such a thing. The problem with GUN and their relation to Shadow's backstory is that they're presented in way that is meant to be believable in a world meant to be consistent with our own, but it doesn't work because Shadow himself isn't consistent with our own world. The way they present him threatening the world

And it's probably merely personal-- I don't see the series as generally being so ridiculously bereft of maturity as to be unable to handle SA2's narrative, considering since it was and still is appreciated by most people; I'd like to give it a bit more credit than that, especially since (going back to your NK example) I'm not a person who is apt at dismissing a character's ability to invoke drama and emotion based on their species or design. I've cried at the impending death of a group of toys; Feeling for an anthropomorphic hedgehog is not a stretch for me.

I never said that Sonic can't stir up emotions, I'm just saying that they're going about it the wrong way.

That's far from the truth. In most of SA2 he was on par with Sonic's general arrogance and cockiness but with his own flavor to it.

I didn't like Sonic's characterization in that game either. I didn't like anyone else's either, really.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I didn't like Sonic's characterization in that game either. I didn't like anyone else's either, really.

It doesn't matter who's characterization you or even I like in this case, that's not what I was calling you out on. The point is that it's not melodrama when Shadow was showing a lot of other emotions that are far from it.

I didn't like Shadow's characterization in his own game, but it certainly wasn't melodramatic. That would be exaggerating his portrayal in a one-sided way.

Edited July 15, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Phos]

The definition of Melodrama I'm using is poorly handled emotions. In fact, I should probably just be saying narm because that's what I'm getting at. Every time he shows an emotion it falls flat, whether it was due to SA 2's creepy mouths and poorly told story, ShtH's cheesy writing and acting, or Sonic 06's ridiculous plot and writing and animation.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The definition of Melodrama I'm using is poorly handled emotions. In fact, I should probably just be saying narm because that's what I'm getting at. Every time he shows an emotion it falls flat, whether it was due to SA 2's creepy mouths and poorly told story, ShtH's cheesy writing and acting, or Sonic 06's ridiculous plot and writing and animation.

Narm sounds a lot more appropiate in describing ShTH and Sonic 06's plots.

As for SA2...well we disagree as far as that portayal was handled. No way can I say that that was poorly told.

Edited July 15, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Eh Luigi]

Since where critizing Shadow's faults and flaws as a character, what about his good points and how beneficial he adds to the games.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Well I'll go for the rather counter-intuitive option that Shadow shouldn't have abandoned his angsty, Maria-driven past.

Like Badnikz said several pages ago, Shadow's problem at the moment is that he's just sorta hanging there. His plot lines have been concluded (they were concluded in SA2, but then they brought him back and concluded them AGAIN in ShtH) and his mysteries revealed, so now he's just floating around in a hazily-defined "I work for GUN" place, which serves as a rather cheap means of providing his motivation to get involved in '06.

Every other character in the series basicly still has the same motivation and personality they did when they were first introduced. Sonic still stops Robotnik for its own sake; Tails still just tries to help Sonic; Knuckles is still (at least in theory (and in Chronicles)) concerned chiefly about the Master Emerald; Amy is still a stalker... but not Shadow. This is sort of the point I was getting at ~12 pages ago when I said that long-range character development is bad in the Sonic Series. If you fundamentally change who characters are and how they act, you end up with... well, someone who rings false to their previous incarnations, which is exactly what's happened to Shadow in my eyes. Deprived of his original motivations, he's just kind of a boring husk now. Something that looks like the cool Shadow everyone thought was awesome in SA2, but isn't actually him.

I don't want him sulking in angsty emo self-pity all the while, but would it really be so bad for him to remember Maria once in a while? I like the way Archie seems to have done Shadow; he hasn't surgically cut his past away from him like he has in the games, and still imagines Maria's face in the clouds every once in a while (or, when he goes batshit insane as King Shadow, invokes her desire for peace as an excuse for drowning the world and starting again, Old Testament God style, which is freakin' awesome). He just doesn't go on and on and on about it.

So I guess my main gripe with Shadow is that his current portrayal feels like a lie (a shallow, uninteresting lie) compared to the motivated Angel of Vengeance he was in SA2. Wandering around serving GUN - with no reason ever given for why - is bland and nonsensical. Give him some motivations conistent with what he actually is. There's umpteen ways to do this even without explicitly invoking "OMG MARIA", should you be so violently opposed to that option. How about:

• 
  
  
• As in Sonic Battle, and Archie, have him take an interest in the development of other living weapons, because he sees himself in them and wants to help.
  
• Have him turn up whenever one of Prof Gerald's other 50-year-old inventions gets unearthed, 'cos he's "safeguarding the legacy of his creator".
  
• Are there any Shadow Androids left? He could do a Gamma-esque crusade to shut them all down as he feels responsibility as their 'template'.
  
• Have him generally getting into scrapes against GUN because he just doesn't like GUN. Yeah, he's not human-omnicidal any more, but asking him to bear not even a vague grudge against them for the murder of Gerald and Maria is absurd. Shadow working for GUN, as he does now, implies a kind of zen saint-like capacity for forgiveness that is completly at odds with his generally wrathful nature.
  
• Have him working as Robotnik's right-hand-man again every once in a while. They're clearly on friendly terms - or as friendly as either of them can get - in Rivals, and Shadow does explicitly follow his orders through Metal Sonic in Rivals 2. You could justify this either in that Shadow's allying himself with the last remaining branch of Maria's family tree, or just that Shadow likes Robotnik's style. Either way, I'd like to see a Shad/Botnik team-up that brings the Black Blur directly back into antagonism vs. the Blue Blur, as opposed to the passive, incidental opposition it caused in Rivals 2.
  

There, a bunch of motives that allow Shadow to keep his backstory without sliding into perma-angst. Each one of them exactly a hundred times better than "Lol imma GUN agent for no reason", and ten times better than Chronicles' rather dubious "I'm gay mechanosexual for Omega" justification for Shad's involvement.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Frozen Nitrogen

[Rusty Spy]

If you fundamentally change who characters are and how they act, you end up with... well, someone who rings false to their previous incarnations, which is exactly what's happened to Shadow in my eyes. Deprived of his original motivations, he's just kind of a boring husk now. Something that looks like the cool Shadow everyone thought was awesome in SA2, but isn't actually him.

Well if all he's missing, as you already explained below, is an occasional reference to Maria then there really isn't anything fundamentally missing from Shadow, is there?

Wandering around serving GUN - with no reason ever given for why - is bland and nonsensical.

Perhaps to be that Angel of Vengeance(or should I say Justice?) you just said above?

That's feels kinda shallow and feels oddly specific.

Are there any Shadow Androids left? He could do a Gamma-esque crusade to shut them all down as he feels responsibility as their 'template'.

I honestly don't understand the fascination in those things. They appeared for like, two levels in ShTH and a passing reference in Heroes, then fell off the face of the Earth. There's nothing interesting about them and Sega have done us the favor of never mentioning them again.

Also, Fun Fact: I believe there was a rumor that the story for ShTH was gonna involve Shadow going out to destroy all the androids.

Have him generally getting into scrapes against GUN because he just doesn't like GUN. Yeah, he's not human-omnicidal any more, but asking him to bear not even a vague grudge against them for the murder of Gerald and Maria is absurd. Shadow working for GUN, as he does now, implies a kind of zen saint-like capacity for forgiveness that is completly at odds with his generally wrathful nature.

Honestly it's not that far fetched at all that Shadow has forgiven GUN for the incident. All the people who were involved are most likely either retired/dead now, and the only person who still held any sort of grudge as of recently was the Commander, who had already done a heel face turn, and we can believe is on better terms with him. (He even invited Shadow to his niece's birthday or something, if the Expert Mode is to be taken as canon).

Have him working as Robotnik's right-hand-man again every once in a while. They're clearly on friendly terms - or as friendly as either of them can get - in Rivals, and Shadow does explicitly follow his orders through Metal Sonic in Rivals 2. You could justify this either in that Shadow's allying himself with the last remaining branch of Maria's family tree, or just that Shadow likes Robotnik's style. Either way, I'd like to see a Shad/Botnik team-up that brings the Black Blur directly back into antagonism vs. the Blue Blur, as opposed to the passive, incidental opposition it caused in Rivals 2.

Kinda goes against that "Make everyone happy" thing he holds so dear to him, dont'cha think?

and ten times better than Chronicles' rather dubious "I'm gay mechanosexual for Omega"

You don't give that enough credit; Chronicles was the first time Shadow's ever shown that kind of concern for another being since Maria, and showed us a deeper look into Shadow's softer, more caring side. That bit of character exploration is what made him more relatable, and ya know, a more dimensional character rather than a walking cardboard cutout pre-teen emo with a bag of fur taped too it.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Black Spy

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Well if all he's missing, as you already explained below, is an occasional reference to Maria then there really isn't anything fundamentally missing from Shadow, is there?

In 06 he's missing everything that happeed to him before 06, having explicitly stated at the end of ShtH that he's saying goodbye to his former self. The occasional reference to Maria would simply be the indication that he hasn't actually divested himself of everything that made him what he is.

That's feels kinda shallow and feels oddly specific.

Shallower than "I'm a GUN agent for no reason"?

Honestly it's not that far fetched at all that Shadow has forgiven GUN for the incident. All the people who were involved are most likely either retired/dead now, and the only person who still held any sort of grudge as of recently was the Commander, who had already done a heel face turn, and we can believe is on better terms with him. (He even invited Shadow to his niece's birthday or something, if the Expert Mode is to be taken as canon).

Yes. Yes it is.

Shadow working for GUN is like Sonic working for Robotnik. They are the longstanding archnemeses of each other; GUN hated and feared Shadow since Biolizard's first inception on the ARK, and they manufactured a top-secret kill-everyone-on-the-space-station-and-classify-it-for-50-years conspiracy to try and strangle him in the cradle. Shadow hated GUN for killing Maria and Gerald. As Nepenthe suggested, a degree of continuing bitterness and regret over this is not "OMG EMO WHINING". It's what you would expect.

You seem to be mistaking Shadow for Jesus, a being with infinite capacity for forgiveness, rather than his actual nature as probably the least forgiving, most wrath-filled vengeance-loving character in the franchise even in his mellow '06 incarnation. It continues to baffle me how anyone can take Shadow's happily working for GUN as anything but massive, massive character derailment.

Intellectually, sure, Shadow probably accepts that GUN is an organization composed of different people to those who murdered their way through the ARK... in the same way that intellectually, Shadow accepts that he and Sonic are usually on the same side. But that doesn't stop Shadow from itching to pound some humility into the Blue Blur's smug face every time they meet by besting him in a 'friendly' race or fight.

By the same token, it would be much more in keeping with Shadow's actual history and personality for him to take great pleasure in glomping GUN mech pilots in the head whenever he gets half an excuse, a'la SA2's B-3X HOT SHOT.

Now Sonic DOES work for (with) Robotnik every once in a while, when averting a colony drop or Gemerl super-spazz or Nocturnus invasion, but these occur after you've had a full game of build-up and justification. Similarly, yeah, Shadow could be convinced to work with GUN on occasion, but it certainly shouldn't be his default position.

Kinda goes against that "Make everyone happy" thing he holds so dear to him, dont'cha think?

These were things he could do without invoking his Maria-angst-promise as motivation. But hey, what the hell - pointing this out could be Sonic's way of attempting to induce a face heel turn in a Robotnik-allied Shadow. Bonus points if it doesn't work ("Don't you dare lecture me about what Maria wanted, FAKER! You never even knew her!").

You don't give that enough credit; Chronicles was the first time Shadow's ever shown that kind of concern for another being since Maria, and showed us a deeper look into Shadow's softer, more caring side. That bit of character exploration is what made him more relatable, and ya know, a more dimensional character rather than a walking cardboard cutout pre-teen emo with a bag of fur taped too it.

Shadow's dubious heart-to-heart with Sonic about his feelings for Omega was perhaps the one piece of Chronicles characterisation I didn't like. Sure, maybe Shadow really does think of Omega as a true friend who he'd go and save just because of that, but I question whether he'd admit that to himself, let alone SONIC of all people.

That being said, the rest of Shadow's characterisation in Chronicles was GOLD.

Fight on the Zoah Colony

Sonic: "Can anyone see a way out of this?"

Shadow: "I can see a lot of ways out. For me. None for you."

[Diogenes]

This is sort of the point I was getting at ~12 pages ago when I said that long-range character development is bad in the Sonic Series.

Now I would say everything else in your post proves this wrong, as you've listed several ways to give Shadow proper character development without abandoning his original character and in a way that makes him more viable for future stories. It's only bad if it's done bad.

[Rusty Spy]

In 06 he's missing everything that happeed to him before 06, having explicitly stated at the end of ShtH that he's saying goodbye to his former self. The occasional reference to Maria would simply be the indication that he hasn't actually divested himself of everything that made him what he is.

You don't just give everyone a blatant footnote for Shadow's motives that's one step below plastering a giant neon sign on the screen saying "THESE ARE SHADOW'S MOTIVES! REMEMBER?! HUH?!"

His motivations don't need to be hammered into our skulls at every chance he can get.

Shallower than "I'm a GUN agent for no reason"?

Yes when you bother to look into the deeper, underlying motives for Shadow's recruitment.

Shadow could be convinced to work with GUN on occasion, but it certainly shouldn't be his default position.

Well obviously, I wasn't saying he SHOULD, what I was getting at is that it would at least make sense for him to work for them given his (at the least) neutrality with them.

These were things he could do without invoking his Maria-angst-promise as motivation.

Again, I wasn't saying he SHOULD. It would be very hypocritical for Shadow to assist in the total domination of the human race while using "Maria would've wanted it" as his reasons.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Black Spy

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Now I would say everything else in your post proves this wrong, as you've listed several ways to give Shadow proper character development without abandoning his original character and in a way that makes him more viable for future stories. It's only bad if it's done bad.

My suggestions are suggestions for adventures, not suggestions for personality changes.

He already has all these motives. He just needs to do them.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Frozen Nitrogen

[JaidynReiman]

Frozen, honestly, I don't quite understand the point here... "Putting the past behind" doesn't mean "I'm going to forget entirely about everything that happened!" All it means is "I'm not going to rely so heavily on the past anymore." It doesn't mean he's abandoned everything, and it doesn't mean he's ignoring Maria all-together. In fact, I'd have to say that's a large motivation FOR him joining GUN; to fulfill Maria's wish and keep the people of Earth safe.

He didn't really join GUN for no reason. Especially considering the fact that his new best friend (not that he's forgotten about Maria, but Maria's dead and he's breaking out of his shell a little bit and FINDING a new friend) is a GUN agent herself.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Frozen, honestly, I don't quite understand the point here... "Putting the past behind" doesn't mean "I'm going to forget entirely about everything that happened!" All it means is "I'm not going to rely so heavily on the past anymore." It doesn't mean he's abandoned everything, and it doesn't mean he's ignoring Maria all-together.

The fact that Shadow's not mentioned Maria's name or made any reference to anything that happened over SA2-Heroes-ShtH even once after ShtH's end tends to disagree with you.

In fact, I'd have to say that's a large motivation FOR him joining GUN; to fulfill Maria's wish and keep the people of Earth safe.

Well, if there'd ever been any indication at all in the games that this is the case, fine.

But there hasn't.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Frozen Nitrogen

[Rusty Spy]

Well, if there'd ever been any indication at all in the games that this is the case, fine.

But there hasn't.

There's never been any indication of any other reason, either.

The fact that he's not mentioned Maria's name or made any reference to anything that happened over SA2-Heroes-ShtH even once tends to disagree with you.

That's because the writers have actually avoided Shadow constantly holding up a neon sign that blatantly shoves those aspects down our throats. This is a GOOD thing.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Black Spy

[Frozen Nitrogen]

There's never been any indication of any other reason, either.

There's never been any explanation of any of it, which is the egregious part. One does not just start working for their family's killers arbitrarily.

If they said "Yeah, Shadow's doing it because he wants to make the world a better place as per his promise", then... well, then I'd still complain because there's umpteen ways for Shadow to do good without siding with GUN. But I wouldn't complain as much. It's the fact that we're somehow expected to accept this brazen swerve in Shadow's attitude towards GUN without needing an explanation; that's what doesn't make any sense.

That's because the writers have actually avoided Shadow constantly holding up a neon sign that blatantly shoves those aspects down our throats. This is a GOOD thing.

'Not constantly' =/= 'Never'

If they'd throw Maria a bone even once, then I might agree with you. But the complete absence of any even tangential reference to her seems to me like they made a conscious decision after ShtH to give Maria a dose of Chuck Cunningham Syndrome, at least as far as Shadow's motives go.

[Rusty Spy]

It's the fact that we're somehow expected to accept this brazen swerve in Shadow's attitude towards GUN without needing an explanation; that's what doesn't make any sense.

It was by no means brazen. No one in that organization can be blamed for the incident because they weren't a part of it to begin with. This scene in ShTH pretty much shows Shadow and GUN realizing that they are both sympathetic victims of circumstance; that both of them loved Maria, and were both unjustifiably blamed for her death.

But the complete absence of any even tangential reference to her seems to me like they made a conscious decision after ShtH to give Maria a dose of Chuck Cunningham Syndrome, at least as far as Shadow's motives go.

That's because almost every instance in 06 where Shadow could make reference to Maria would feel forced.

Frankly, I'd rather it make no mention to Maria than make each instance of her mentioning come off as narm.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Black Spy

[JaidynReiman]

If there's a reason for him to bring up Maria, fine. But as Black Spy said, it doesn't need to be a forced incident. Maria wasn't named straight out by Shadow in Chronicles, but she was mentioned. In '06 and the Rivals games, there really was no need to bring it up. Shadow hasn't even had a plot-appearance other than those titles.

Shadow's not just going to forget about Maria, but one major complaint of Shadow is how he used to scream Maria's name all the time. Now he doesn't and you're complaining? There isn't a reason for him to scream out her name all the time, but that doesn't mean he's forgotten about her entirely.

Sheesh.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Shadow's not just going to forget about Maria, but one major complaint of Shadow is how he used to scream Maria's name all the time. Now he doesn't and you're complaining? There isn't a reason for him to scream out her name all the time, but that doesn't mean he's forgotten about her entirely.

Sheesh.

Leaving aside the fact that "Old Shadow tAlkEd aBoWt Maria EveRy 2nD wUrd he suXXXX!!1!2!" is a bizarre overstatement... I don't necessarily expect him to ramble about Maria every second, but going 3 games without mentioning her is just wierd. It's like Knuckles going 3 games without mentioning the Master Emerald, and everyone gets pissy about that.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Frozen Nitrogen

[Nepenthe]

The Master Emerald is not something that Knuckles can reasonably shed from his life, though, for reasons of duty and safety, hence why people complain.

A closer equivalence would be Knuckles' rivalry with Sonic, something that is a popular facet to his character, but something I suggest should also be gone like Shadow lamenting about his past for the sheer sake of the fact that Knuckles would be stupid to keep trying to seriously beat the sunshine out of Sonic like he was doing in the the S3&K days. Knuckles doesn't need to be tied down by his supposed rivalry anymore than Shadow needs to be tied down by his past. Let these characters find some new motivations.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

The Master Emerald is not something that Knuckles can reasonably shed from his life, though, for reasons of duty and safety, hence why people complain.

I'd argue that this is exactly the same. Shadow has a self-imposed duty to Maria to honour her memory and sacrifice, just like Knuckles has his ancestral obligations to the Guardianship.

Sure, no-one's gonna take over the world using a green rock if Shadow shirks his duty and stops remembering her, but that's hardly the point, is it?

[Nepenthe]

Shadow has a self-imposed duty to Maria to honour her memory and sacrifice,

Which is exactly what he's doing by willingly saving the world. And as far as I know, Maria didn't ask him to promise her to make the people happy with the catch of, "You have to mention me in some form forever so that the audience is spoon-fed the fact that the promise you made to me to save the world is indeed your motivation." It's silly.

Sure, no-one's gonna take over the world using a green rock if Shadow shirks his duty and stops remembering her, but that's hardly the point, is it?

That wasn't my point, either. Simply put, you're equating Shadow's tragedies with Knuckles' duties of guardianship as if Shadow isn't allowed to move on like Knuckles wouldn't be allowed to leave The Master Emerald alone forever, which in turn suggests that getting over the wrongdoing that happened to you actually has similar tangible consequences of leaving an extremely powerful object behind for anyone to steal. It's a false equivalence of the highest order.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Nepenthe