What's Peak Sonic for You?/What Do You Want the Most Out of This Franchise?

[The DOMinator]

As I finish up my daily homework for the night and get ready to close down the fort, I figured I'd post an idea/thought that came to my mind before I forgot about it. There have been many interpretations of the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise over the years across several forms of media. From the likes of the Archie comics and the SatAM cartoon telling ongoing, more serious stories, to something as wacky as the Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon, or as humorous and meta as the Sonic Boom subseries. Of course, even though the different deviations of Sonic can be categorized, long running series themselves have had a habit of being thematically different depending on the writers, management, etc. The games themselves can be used as an example of this. In the span of over a year, we went from something like Sonic and the Black Knight, with its more genuine telling of a story that has a grasp on its characters and even tries to deliver a moral, to something like Sonic Colors, a more simple, straightforward story, that's more "colorful" and "happy," and sometimes has a tendency to not take things seriously. The aforementioned Archie comics can also be cited as an example of this. The series started out with more humorous/goofy/wacky one off stories, to a more serious over arching plot, that soon be injected with politics, romance, and all sorts of drama, including high stakes like permanent death. And from there, the comics' tone would continue to change throughout the 2000's, until landing on a somewhat consistent tone that involved a better balance of light heartedness and more tension filled moments. Because of these differing changes to how things like the plot and characters are handled, many have their own opinions and views as to how said characters and plots, should be handled. Even pushing stories and characterization aside, when you come down to the core aspect of the franchise, the games, even then, the game play of the game will constantly shift between differing playstyles and the like. You'll go from a game that's more fast paced platformer, to one that requires more input and thinking. They'll go from a more exploration based playstyle, to a more linear one. With all of that said, my question to you is, what do you consider "peak" Sonic? Or rather, what do you want the most out of this franchise? You may choose to respond to any and as many of the things that I have listed as you want. If you want to tell me about how characters should be treated, go for it. If you want to tell me what your preferred idea of Sonic game play is, you can say that to. Any of this can be in regards to the comics, shows, whatever. Heck, you can think touch up on stuff that I haven't mentioned, as although I tried to incorporate as many things as I can think of (whether your more of a story guy, or if you care more about the games in particular), there's still more that can be discussed. Maybe you'd like to touch upon what music you'd like to hear from the games, movies, etc Talk about whatever comes to mind. Is this a bit disorganized and unfocused? Perhaps, but like I said, it was just a thought that came to mind and wanted to get out before I forgot it, so I could hear everyone's say/input/whatever.

[TitansCreed]

It's hard to define peak. The answer will change from person to person. Especially if you are a Classic or Modern fan, and again that changes based on what media you grew up with.

Fan of the comics? Well, if you were a Sonic fan in the US growing up in the 90's you had Archie. UK? Fleetway. Both tackled the freedom fighter aesthetic and adjacent universe wildly differently. Sonic fan growing up in the last decade and reading comics? Doesn't matter where you are, you have IDW filling that niche.

If you were to put me on the spot right now, I would say the peak of story telling would be somewhere between the offering of Forces and Frontiers.

Now, if you would indulge me for five minutes, I shall explain the mad ramblings...

Storytelling.

Forces gave us the hero LOSING, Eggman taking over the world and then having a Freedom Fighters motif to rescue our hero to then defeat the badguys(tm). The problem with Forces storytelling is that it falls of a cliff, rather quickly. In terms of how Infinite falls off, and several VR based enemies not reappearing (Chaos 0 being the MASSIVE example).

Frontiers, on the continuation of storytelling, gave us someone we knew how to write in universe well. With several nods to various IDW mainstays and large standing moments from the Blue Hedgehog's past. Now, don't get me wrong, I think Frontier writing overall was very good. But that last boss was massively contrived. 

Gameplay.

This will change massively depending on who you ask. This really is the Classic vs Modern debate. There are people ride or die for both. I personally, in a post Mania world, am more a fan of the Modern playstyle. BUT... I think Frontiers did not do open world zone well. I think the collectathon was a little too much, and I also think the DLC story should of been the more canon one, but that's me.

I will once again say that I enjoy Forces' sub 5 minute levels, it allows faster storytelling and scene swapping with a variety of locations. Mania levels being more than 5 minutes drove me to the brink of madness and latter Superstars levels are just... well, bleh. I personally enjoy shorter more concise level structure, hell even Frontiers' cyberspace stages were decent, but needed more image variety. Maybe my brain is just more accepting of it in my coming old age.

Conclusion.

Give me a large Forces esque game with a decent story throughout the game that doesn't fall off so quickly. 

*ahem* That's my peak.

[The DOMinator]

On 5/7/2024 at 2:48 PM, TitansCreed said:

It's hard to define peak. The answer will change from person to person. Especially if you are a Classic or Modern fan, and again that changes based on what media you grew up with.

Fan of the comics? Well, if you were a Sonic fan in the US growing up in the 90's you had Archie. UK? Fleetway. Both tackled the freedom fighter aesthetic and adjacent universe wildly differently. Sonic fan growing up in the last decade and reading comics? Doesn't matter where you are, you have IDW filling that niche.

If you were to put me on the spot right now, I would say the peak of story telling would be somewhere between the offering of Forces and Frontiers.

Now, if you would indulge me for five minutes, I shall explain the mad ramblings...

Storytelling.

Forces gave us the hero LOSING, Eggman taking over the world and then having a Freedom Fighters motif to rescue our hero to then defeat the badguys(tm). The problem with Forces storytelling is that it falls of a cliff, rather quickly. In terms of how Infinite falls off, and several VR based enemies not reappearing (Chaos 0 being the MASSIVE example).

Frontiers, on the continuation of storytelling, gave us someone we knew how to write in universe well. With several nods to various IDW mainstays and large standing moments from the Blue Hedgehog's past. Now, don't get me wrong, I think Frontier writing overall was very good. But that last boss was massively contrived. 

Gameplay.

This will change massively depending on who you ask. This really is the Classic vs Modern debate. There are people ride or die for both. I personally, in a post Mania world, am more a fan of the Modern playstyle. BUT... I think Frontiers did not do open world zone well. I think the collectathon was a little too much, and I also think the DLC story should of been the more canon one, but that's me.

I will once again say that I enjoy Forces' sub 5 minute levels, it allows faster storytelling and scene swapping with a variety of locations. Mania levels being more than 5 minutes drove me to the brink of madness and latter Superstars levels are just... well, bleh. I personally enjoy shorter more concise level structure, hell even Frontiers' cyberspace stages were decent, but needed more image variety. Maybe my brain is just more accepting of it in my coming old age.

Conclusion.

Give me a large Forces esque game with a decent story throughout the game that doesn't fall off so quickly. 

*ahem* That's my peak.

Honestly a really good idea. Forces had a good story concept/basis, and the short levels worked hand in hand with the faster paced storytelling and the constant swapping between various locales. I mean, Sonic was kind of built on the concept of going from point A to point B as fast as possible, so having long, drawn out, several minute levels kind of goes against this philosophy. Maybe to remedy this issue, instead of having long levels, have bigger levels with several paths to the same endpoint, as seen in some other Sonic games. Regardless, it strikes a good balance between standard Sonic gameplay done competently, and decent storytelling without said story slogging things down. In my opinion, probably one of the biggest cases of missed potential in Sonic games.

While on the topic of Forces though (get ready for a ramble of my own), despite the game having a lot of good concepts going for it (the synopsis, Infinite ' potential, the Avatar), the game felt as though it was also trying to shove everything it could into the game to appeal and pander to every type of fan. The whole Eggman taking over the world plot, Sonic getting defeated, and there being a resistance harken back to both fans of the Archie comics, SatAM, etc, and some people's wishes of Sonic returning to more dark and serious plotlines in general. There's the so called "comedy" and light heartedness found in some of the dialogue for those that liked the writing of the fan dubbed "Meta Era." You had boost levels for those who liked the style, and the Classic Sonic levels for older fans, fans of the 2D games, etc. Classic Sonic as a whole, as well as the return of Green Hill and Chemical Plant, could also be considered nostalgia pandering. You had the Avatar, for those who created Sonic OC's, and its/they're part in the story for those who wished to be buddies with Sonic and save the day. Etc, etc. Not that a combination of all the above couldn't theoretically work together, but it would need to be written and meshed together in such a way, and handled with such care that Forces simply didn't get enough of. It needed balance. Actually, this "celebration" of things kind makes sense regarding that this was one of Sonic' 25th anniversary games, but the fact that it was an anniversary game released in this state, and additionally being one of the first mainline entries in a while after a brief hiatus, as well as being released after the well received, fan made Sonic mania, kind of sealed its fate. If this was released in the same state under different circumstances, as in a standard yearly release, it probably wouldn't have been so negatively received, but it built up hype and expectations, and just bluntly dropped the ball.

TL;DR, Sonic Forces was both cool, if a bit of a mess in concept, but could've been perfectly salvageable if balanced and handled with care. But because it was handled poorly/derailed so quickly, as it stands, it's just okay/average. You're "peak" essentially remedies all issues with base Forces. Again, it had a good foundation, but then it was poorly constructed and executed, and was therefore executed by fans.

[Maple Syrup]

I like focusing on the speed! Abilities help too. And it will be the chef's kiss if you connect it to the story and execute it well! That is peak Sonic.

[Cyb3rkn1ght]

10 minutes ago, Maple Syrup said:

I like focusing on the speed! Abilities help too. And it will be the chef's kiss if you connect it to the story and execute it well! That is peak Sonic.

if that's so, my project is gonna be Pretty nifty (hint hint)

[Maple Syrup]

6 minutes ago, Cyb3rkn1ght said:

if that's so, my project is gonna be Pretty nifty (hint hint)

Yup, it think it will do VERY well in pleasing me...(wink wink)

[Nanotek]

I enjoy both classic Sonic and modern Sonic or even one of those mixgames like Sonic Colors where its like both 2D and 3D levels.

Now story wise i like it more when the Sonic Franchise gets a bit more serious aka games like Sonic 06, Shadow the Hedgehog and partially the Adventure titles. Its fine if the games have humor in them but i like Dr. Eggman more if he is an actual serious villain as in Sonic 06 and the story getting a bit more dark like in Shadow the Hedgehog. It adds a level of mistery to the franchise and i get more invested.

When i went from Sonic 06 to Unleashed i was actually disappointed that the style of game went a more funny way and they made Eggman more of a comic relief again. And now i am at Sonic Colors and it got worse. I definitely prefer a more serious tone, with the occasional funny scene put inbetween.

[Rabbitearsblog]

For me, it really depends on what you are looking for in the franchise.  So for me personally, in terms of the Sonic game that hit its peak in the classic era, I would say Sonic 3 and Knuckles was the peak for the classic Sonic games.  It not only had the best gameplay style in all of the classic games, but it also had a pretty impressive story for the time and introduced the audience to Knuckles the Echidna.  In terms of storytelling, I would say Sonic Adventure 2 was the peak in terms of storytelling.  It had a very emotional story about Shadow's tragic backstory and it was the game where both Dr. Eggman and Tails were at their best in terms of characterizations.

[Scritch the Cat]

On 5/6/2024 at 8:44 PM, The DOMinator said:

As I finish up my daily homework for the night and get ready to close down the fort, I figured I'd post an idea/thought that came to my mind before I forgot about it. There have been many interpretations of the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise over the years across several forms of media. From the likes of the Archie comics and the SatAM cartoon telling ongoing, more serious stories, to something as wacky as the Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon, or as humorous and meta as the Sonic Boom subseries. Of course, even though the different deviations of Sonic can be categorized, long running series themselves have had a habit of being thematically different depending on the writers, management, etc. The games themselves can be used as an example of this. In the span of over a year, we went from something like Sonic and the Black Knight, with its more genuine telling of a story that has a grasp on its characters and even tries to deliver a moral, to something like Sonic Colors, a more simple, straightforward story, that's more "colorful" and "happy," and sometimes has a tendency to not take things seriously. The aforementioned Archie comics can also be cited as an example of this. The series started out with more humorous/goofy/wacky one off stories, to a more serious over arching plot, that soon be injected with politics, romance, and all sorts of drama, including high stakes like permanent death. And from there, the comics' tone would continue to change throughout the 2000's, until landing on a somewhat consistent tone that involved a better balance of light heartedness and more tension filled moments. Because of these differing changes to how things like the plot and characters are handled, many have their own opinions and views as to how said characters and plots, should be handled. Even pushing stories and characterization aside, when you come down to the core aspect of the franchise, the games, even then, the game play of the game will constantly shift between differing playstyles and the like. You'll go from a game that's more fast paced platformer, to one that requires more input and thinking. They'll go from a more exploration based playstyle, to a more linear one. With all of that said, my question to you is, what do you consider "peak" Sonic? Or rather, what do you want the most out of this franchise? You may choose to respond to any and as many of the things that I have listed as you want. If you want to tell me about how characters should be treated, go for it. If you want to tell me what your preferred idea of Sonic game play is, you can say that to. Any of this can be in regards to the comics, shows, whatever. Heck, you can think touch up on stuff that I haven't mentioned, as although I tried to incorporate as many things as I can think of (whether your more of a story guy, or if you care more about the games in particular), there's still more that can be discussed. Maybe you'd like to touch upon what music you'd like to hear from the games, movies, etc Talk about whatever comes to mind. Is this a bit disorganized and unfocused? Perhaps, but like I said, it was just a thought that came to mind and wanted to get out before I forgot it, so I could hear everyone's say/input/whatever.

Please learn to use the enter key.

To answer your question, though, for me "Peak Sonic" is playing Sonic--and some other characters who play fairly like Sonic--with Classic Sonic physics but in 3D open worlds (or zones, whatever Iizuka) that have pretty minimal pits but loads of details and loads of vertical geography to exploit.  I mentioned in another thread that I consider the more popular 3D Sonic fangames and Sonic Frontiers to be kind of like the proverbial blind men feeling an elephant; none of them in themselves are ideal Sonic games, but together they contain all the pieces of an ideal Sonic game.  Combine many different objectives and things to find, a world you don't get disoriented in due to a map and/or recognizable landmarks, the ability to fling Sonic into the air and over and to places, and art direction that fits Sonic, and I think you've got a winner provided you can avoid making any of those glitchy.

Edited Wednesday at 04:54 PM by Scritch the Cat

[FlameStream]

From a scenario/story/tone perspective, it would be Sonic embracing the shounen style, rules and values. The closest actualization of that is Sonic Adventure 2 so far. However, the ideal one would be something closer to things like Demon Slayer and the likes, where everyone and their mom (and even grandma) can legitimately find something of value and be invested.

Gameplay-wise, I value the uniqueness of expression of the characters more than the standardization aimed so they play similarly. I recognize that it doesn't lead to a coherent gameplay style when you have an extreme character like Sonic. With that said, I as odd as it is to say it, peak "Sonic" would be a world where Sega can afford making varied games tailored to their other characters like Nintendo can do with theirs.

Edited May 11 by FlameStream

[The DOMinator]

After being MIA over the weekend, it's time to check on those responses!

On 5/10/2024 at 7:37 PM, Nanotek said:

I enjoy both classic Sonic and modern Sonic or even one of those mixgames like Sonic Colors where its like both 2D and 3D levels.

Now story wise i like it more when the Sonic Franchise gets a bit more serious aka games like Sonic 06, Shadow the Hedgehog and partially the Adventure titles. Its fine if the games have humor in them but i like Dr. Eggman more if he is an actual serious villain as in Sonic 06 and the story getting a bit more dark like in Shadow the Hedgehog. It adds a level of mistery to the franchise and i get more invested.

When i went from Sonic 06 to Unleashed i was actually disappointed that the style of game went a more funny way and they made Eggman more of a comic relief again. And now i am at Sonic Colors and it got worse. I definitely prefer a more serious tone, with the occasional funny scene put inbetween.

I'll take it you're an anti-Baldy McNosehair? 

On a more serious note, it's a bit better when there's at least a balance of seriousness and humor/lightheartedness in the games' story. I can tolerate either or, but it's definitely more investing when they're telling a story without any sort of tongue in cheekness. Also, I take it that you're playing through the "main" games in order? In that case, I suggest you buckle up, as it stays that way pretty much until Frontiers, with Forces being a sort of "weirdo" title in that regard. That's one of the things that work against Forces rather than in it's favor. As I stated earlier, Forces is kind of a hodgepodge of different things that the fan base likes, all duct taped together, with one of those things being that, despite it trying to tell a serious story (Eggman taking over the world, the implication of characters dieing), it falls flat due to still incorporating the "humor" from the so called "Meta Era."

On 5/10/2024 at 9:37 PM, Rabbitearsblog said:

For me, it really depends on what you are looking for in the franchise.  So for me personally, in terms of the Sonic game that hit its peak in the classic era, I would say Sonic 3 and Knuckles was the peak for the classic Sonic games.  It not only had the best gameplay style in all of the classic games, but it also had a pretty impressive story for the time and introduced the audience to Knuckles the Echidna.

I 100% agree with you! In the former's case, for me personally, I can't see why some people choose 2 and CD as the best of the classic games, with the only title that may one up 3 & Knuckles (again in my opinion) being Mania. Not that 2 and CD are even close to bad, as they're some of the best games this series has to offer. It's just that 3 & Knuckles not only polishes up what 2 and CD did, but it also expands upon said games. The fact that the game competently tells a story, as well as having introduced a franchise main stay (Knuckles), is just the cherry on top. It's also cool that each character's playthrough is somewhat different from each other, while also not deviating too much, through their different abilities, subtle changes in the level layouts (thanks to differing paths), and some unique boss fights (Doomsday Zone for Sonic, Super Mecha Sonic for Knuckles).

On 5/10/2024 at 9:37 PM, Rabbitearsblog said:

In terms of storytelling, I would say Sonic Adventure 2 was the peak in terms of storytelling.  It had a very emotional story about Shadow's tragic backstory and it was the game where both Dr. Eggman and Tails were at their best in terms of characterizations.

Again, agreeable. Shadow's turn from evil to good, as well his sacrifice, Tails standing on his own ground (a great continuation of his character arc from the first Adventure game), and Eggman being morally complex (mainly regarding the end, where he reflects with Tails on the game's events). Honestly, it felt like a fitting end to the Sonic series, with it being the last Sega console game, and Sonic and Sega's (as a whole) fate being somewhat unknown/in limbo, with Sega's announcement of leaving the console business.

On 5/10/2024 at 10:28 PM, Scritch the Cat said:

Please learn to use the enter key.

 

Noted. I was kind of just trying to get this out before my class period ended, but yeah, without the spacing, it's definitely a bit of an eye sore.

On 5/10/2024 at 10:28 PM, Scritch the Cat said:

To answer your question, though, for me "Peak Sonic" is playing Sonic--and some other characters who play fairly like Sonic--with Classic Sonic physics but in 3D open worlds (or zones, whatever Iizuka) that have pretty minimal pits but loads of details and loads of vertical geography to exploit.  I mentioned in another thread that I consider the more popular 3D Sonic fangames and Sonic Frontiers to be kind of like the proverbial blind men feeling an elephant; none of them in themselves are ideal Sonic games, but together they contain all the pieces of an ideal Sonic game.  Combine many different objectives and things to find, a world you don't get disoriented in due to a map and/or recognizable landmarks, the ability to fling Sonic into the hair and over and to places, and art direction that fits Sonic, and I think you've got a winner provided you can avoid making any of those glitchy.

The ideal concept for a 3D Sonic game, given if Sega and Sonic Team can competently put one out. At the very least, they're not completely giving up on the idea just yet, unlike what happened with the transition from Lost World (brand new play style) to Forces (back to boost game play), so there is the possibility of one day reaching such a game.

On a similar note, for a while now, I've kind of envisioned and wanted a similar styled game. Said game would allow you to explore a lot of the different islands and locations from throughout the series, such as the ever omnipotent South Island (looking at you Green Hill), or the more obscure Cocoa Island. For example, in the former's case, you could traverse through the likes of Marble Zone and Jungle Zone. All of the locations would be interconnected with each other, and the traveling from island to island would involve riding the tornado, and perhaps some other means of travel. Alas, such a game will probably never exist.

On 5/11/2024 at 1:35 AM, FlameStream said:

From a scenario/story/tone perspective, it would be Sonic embracing the shounen style, rules and values. The closest actualization of that is Sonic Adventure 2 so far. However, the ideal one would be something closer to things like Demon Slayer and the likes, where everyone and their mom (and even grandma) can legitimately find something of value and be invested.

This is brought up once again in the topic. Essentially verbatim for how I responded to @Nanotekand @Rabbitearsblog. Also, the Demon Slayer comparison is completely understandable. My little sister is the one who introduced my dad and I to its anime adaption, and now, we watch the series whenever new episodes come out. But back to the topic at hand...

On 5/11/2024 at 1:35 AM, FlameStream said:

Gameplay-wise, I value the uniqueness of expression of the characters more than the standardization aimed so they play similarly. I recognize that it doesn't lead to a coherent gameplay style when you have an extreme character like Sonic. With that said, I as odd as it is to say it, peak "Sonic" would be a world where Sega can afford making varied games tailored to their other characters like Nintendo can do with theirs.

Again, I've already responded to similar comments on this topic. It's partially why I like the Adventure games, even if the game play styles aren't one to one and kind of out there (Big fishing anyone?). And having quality Sonic character spin offs (in regards to the likes of the Luigi's Mansion games, the Wario games, etc) would also be ideal, although such an idea is a pipe dream as of now. Firstly, Sega and Sonic Team have got to get the main Sonic games together before moving on to something like this.

[Nanotek]

On 5/13/2024 at 2:32 PM, The DOMinator said:

I'll take it you're an anti-Baldy McNosehair? 

On a more serious note, it's a bit better when there's at least a balance of seriousness and humor/lightheartedness in the games' story. I can tolerate either or, but it's definitely more investing when they're telling a story without any sort of tongue in cheekness. Also, I take it that you're playing through the "main" games in order? In that case, I suggest you buckle up, as it stays that way pretty much until Frontiers, with Forces being a sort of "weirdo" title in that regard. That's one of the things that work against Forces rather than in it's favor. As I stated earlier, Forces is kind of a hodgepodge of different things that the fan base likes, all duct taped together, with one of those things being that, despite it trying to tell a serious story (Eggman taking over the world, the implication of characters dieing), it falls flat due to still incorporating the "humor" from the so called "Meta Era."

Well, i play ALL Sonic Games in order, including Spinoffs.

You say i should buckle up but actually im currently at Sonic Generations and i must say i like the game quite a lot. A like the references to past things, i love that their are both new 2D and 3D Levels that all play really well and once i heard the " Super Sonic Racing " cover it really lightend up my heart.

If i now think about Peak Sonic i probably think about Sonic Generations in terms of gameplay. Since i am not done with the game yet i cant say if i like the story or not, but so far the journey is quite fun.

Sonic Forces is still one of the games i am most looking forward to play, together with Frontiers. Maybe Forces is just the right kind of weird so that i will still enjoy it, its not the first time i enjoy a game with bad critic, i have a few of those.

[The DOMinator]

1 hour ago, Nanotek said:

You say i should buckle up but actually im currently at Sonic Generations and i must say i like the game quite a lot. A like the references to past things, i love that their are both new 2D and 3D Levels that all play really well and once i heard the " Super Sonic Racing " cover it really lightend up my heart.

If i now think about Peak Sonic i probably think about Sonic Generations in terms of gameplay. Since i am not done with the game yet i cant say if i like the story or not, but so far the journey is quite fun.

I was mainly referring to the story, as judging by what you said you preferred, I assumed you wouldn't be into the more light-heartedness of something like Generations' story, or the lack thereof a story, as I've seen some dislike. I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying yourself though. Generations is a personal favorite of mine! In fact, after first having first played the game through the PS4's PSNow service, I chose it as one of my Christmas gifts that year, and because I didn't have a PS Plus subscription at the time, I had to remake my progress up, which I didn't mind. Within a year or two, I 100% completed it, with it granting my first ever Platinum Trophy! I too like all of the references and throwbacks spread throughout, with one my favorite things being all of the unlockable music tracks from throughout Sonic's history, which you can they play in any level or mission. This is probably the best boost game in my opinion, as Modern Sonic is almost at his fastest feeling out of the boost games (first being Unleashed), while still feeling great to control, he has all of his moves from said games (ex: drifting), except the double jump, which isn't really needed, and overall, he feels really polished. Classic Sonic is also really fun to play as. I've seen some complain how he isn't one to one with the classics, which, yeah, he isn't, but there's still nothing wrong with how he controls. At the very least, compare and contrast with say, his play style in Forces for example. Not to mention, the game looks great, I like the ability to equip different moves and abilities, etc, etc. Again, one of my favorites from the series.

1 hour ago, Nanotek said:

Sonic Forces is still one of the games i am most looking forward to play, together with Frontiers. Maybe Forces is just the right kind of weird so that i will still enjoy it, its not the first time i enjoy a game with bad critic, i have a few of those.

Yeah, critics aren't exactly the best to listen to when thinking about what game (or really any type of media, like movies) you want to play, as everyone has their own opinion. There's been many times where I've read/heard/seen bad reviews on games/movies/etc, but ended up enjoying them. And likewise with the inversion ("good" movie/game/whatever = not good to me). As long as you go in with an open mind, your fine. I'll think you'll enjoy both Forces and Frontiers when you get to them, and I wish you the best.

[Iko]

Peak Sonic... it's hard to tell, because the franchise has been very inconsistent and changed style and tone pretty often.

Overall, I think that the early 2000's were the peak of the franchise... not in terms of quality, but in terms of the best moment for being a Sonic fan. Even though they call it the "dark age" of Sonic, it was still a great time. In those years you could experience the classics in the Mega Collection, the ports of the Adventure games, the Advance and the Rush series, have a Sonic animated series that adapted the stories of some of those games, and from the fanbase there were tons of sprite animations, fangames and other creations.

Storytelling, I agree with whoever says that Adventure 2 was the peak. The story of that game is great, and despite being darker than most other Sonic games, is stays faithful with the tone and vibes that the series is known for.

Gameplay-wise, it's a mess. Sonic 3 & Knuckles (especially the 3 side) is the best of the classics, but it's not much replayable due to the continuous interruptions in gameplay (bonus and special stages, mid-level cutscenes), so sometimes I enjoy the simplicity of Sonic 1 more. Sonic Advance 2 has in my opinion the best gameplay for 2D (I'm not talking of level design or collectables here, only about the core gameplay: input and movements) even though it's still not perfect (some jank, some unbalanced and/or flow-breaking moves, the acceleration sometimes is too low); the gameplay of this game is a good template that with some improvements and a little redesign of the more problematic aspects, can potentially be expanded infinitely to include many other characters, with unique moves each.

Regarding 3D, a game that I would call "peak" still doesn't exist, but the closest IMO was Adventure 2 (the versions without the double input glitches); Adventure 1 had a more old school approach to level design, but it was also more inconsistent, with loadings between sections of a level, while Adventure 2 optimized the level design and removed the loadings.

There are games that maybe I would not consider peak, but introduced some gameplay elements that I think are good; one example is Sonic Lost World with the Parkour, along with the unique way of how it implemented the double jump as a sort of upward air dash (with animation and uncurling). In fact, there's not a real "peak" in Sonic's gameplay, because the good ideas are all separated into different games.