Would you like to see extra levels (in post game) in Sonic games?

[Shiny Gems]

What I am talking about is this: In the Wii U version of Sonic Lost World, upon beating the game, there was an extra level/world that was unlocked that was simply called "Hidden World", with the last level of said world having a giant Pac-Man like monster you had to avoid while traversing on bubbles. Also, while it was nothing truly new, there was Green Hill in Sonic Adventure 2, which was unlocked by collecting all the emblems in that game.

Either way, here are a few questions: Would you all like to see post game extra levels in future Sonic games, or even post-game hub worlds for that matter? (Like Eggmanland's hub world in Sonic Unleashed)? How would you like them to be unlocked? (Like having them unlocked after being the game, getting 100 percent in the game, or maybe both or some other way) What would you want from such levels or hub worlds? Finally, would you want them to be worth playing after unlocking them after the game or meeting other requirements?

For the record, I am not talking about DLC levels like in Sonic Unleashed, I am talking about after beating the base game.

[MGA_Gamer]

I'm all for it, Particularly if it's a relatively short game, like Dream Team was.

However, that does not mean Sonic Team should be cheap, and just have you play the same levels again, but with a different objectives, like Forces challenge missions.

[Sega DogTagz]

Frontiers aside, most Sonic games are content starved as it is, and very few have post game activities to encourage continued replays beyond speedrunning leader-boards. 

 

Without something like a Chao Garden, to incentivize players to stick with the game after the credits roll, then there is no real point to blocking off content like that. Its a nice bonus in concept, but without a reason to keep playing the game its kind of a hallow reward.

[JezMM]

It's kind of weird to me that Sonic, generally, so adamantly refuses to do the Mario thing of having a "special world" of higher difficulty levels for after the game's ending.  I mean, the answer is probably simple - Sonic levels are long and hard to make and Sonic has less budget than Mario.  Mario can afford to make 8 worlds and then a 9th bonus one, while if say, Sonic Generations wanted to have 2 bonus zones for after the 9 mandatory ones, the only way that would happen is by having it so now there are 7 mandatory ones, etc.  They can only afford to make so much game so they decide to make it all part of the core experience instead of risking some players never seeing it.

On top of that, the example given, Lost World, the one time they did it... said zone was just kind of completely bizarre.  Four weird gimmicky levels rather than anything that felt like an extra challenge for those who wanted a bit more after clearing the game, only one of them played sort of normally.

Game Land in Colours would've been another opportunity to do this, but again they opted for just "strange" level design over challenging.  The levels are kind of weirdly simplistic and full of odd little pointless things to just sort of mess around with along the way, which suggests to me that they were designed more with the 2-player mode in mind than as extra levels for a single player to take on.

 

Anyway yeah, in short, I would like this, but I appreciate it might just not be feasible for Sonic's budget without having to sacrifice a chunk of the not-post-game stuff to make it.

 

[ChaosCTRL]

29 minutes ago, JezMM said:

 

Anyway yeah, in short, I would like this, but I appreciate it might just not be feasible for Sonic's budget without having to sacrifice a chunk of the not-post-game stuff to make it.

 

I agree. Developers should focus on using their budget and time on improving the main game first, and only develop post game content if they can do so without taking away from the rest of the game.

[Shiny Gems]

31 minutes ago, JezMM said:

It's kind of weird to me that Sonic, generally, so adamantly refuses to do the Mario thing of having a "special world" of higher difficulty levels for after the game's ending.  I mean, the answer is probably simple - Sonic levels are long and hard to make and Sonic has less budget than Mario.  Mario can afford to make 8 worlds and then a 9th bonus one, while if say, Sonic Generations wanted to have 2 bonus zones for after the 9 mandatory ones, the only way that would happen is by having it so now there are 7 mandatory ones, etc.  They can only afford to make so much game so they decide to make it all part of the core experience instead of risking some players never seeing it.

On top of that, the example given, Lost World, the one time they did it... said zone was just kind of completely bizarre.  Four weird gimmicky levels rather than anything that felt like an extra challenge for those who wanted a bit more after clearing the game, only one of them played sort of normally.

Game Land in Colours would've been another opportunity to do this, but again they opted for just "strange" level design over challenging.  The levels are kind of weirdly simplistic and full of odd little pointless things to just sort of mess around with along the way, which suggests to me that they were designed more with the 2-player mode in mind than as extra levels for a single player to take on.

 

Anyway yeah, in short, I would like this, but I appreciate it might just not be feasible for Sonic's budget without having to sacrifice a chunk of the not-post-game stuff to make it.

 

Well, obviously...actually, it is not so obvious, but from my understanding, if I understand how the planning in game development goes, the development teams decide what to include in the game and how it should be before actually making the game. With that said...

I am not saying your point of view, all of it or anything else, is wrong, but I think Sonic Team, in particular, don't usually plan for an extra level in Sonic games, budget or not. I think most of the time, they do not plan on having an extra post-game level in Sonic games, given how many Sonic games do not have such a thing. which is sad, because Sonic games could use that kind of replay value.

That all said, that is just one possible reason, so I don't think your budget idea is far fetched at all. It makes perfect sense. Me, though? I just have a feeling that whether they have a budget or not, Sonic Team just don't plan for post-game extra levels.

P.S. I liked the way Sonic: Lost World's Hidden World looked, but that is it. Not much made me feel negative about the world, but it was kind of strange. I think it did not help that the structure of the levels, the gimmicks in such levels and many other things did not really seem to fit with the colorful environment of the Hidden World, but that is just me speaking.

[Palas]

4 hours ago, JezMM said:

It's kind of weird to me that Sonic, generally, so adamantly refuses to do the Mario thing of having a "special world" of higher difficulty levels for after the game's ending.  I mean, the answer is probably simple - Sonic levels are long and hard to make and Sonic has less budget than Mario.  Mario can afford to make 8 worlds and then a 9th bonus one, while if say, Sonic Generations wanted to have 2 bonus zones for after the 9 mandatory ones, the only way that would happen is by having it so now there are 7 mandatory ones, etc.  They can only afford to make so much game so they decide to make it all part of the core experience instead of risking some players never seeing it.

 

Well Trip's story is sort of that... and then they tied it into the main progression. I guess they really don't like the idea of people not experiencing all the content.

We take them as a given, but Time Attack modes kind of serve this purpose, retooling stages to give you a different and usually harder kind of challenge. But only kind of-- since there's no completion objectives in them, and they aren't new zones, we don't feel it really scratches this itch. That's why Sonic CD was very clever to hide extras behind it associated with your performance, and I'd be all for that to come back.

That said, I'd also love a special/hidden post-game stage or set of stages. Just more post-game content in general. Unlocking with 100% progression is far too much to me, though, and I really don't like how SA2 handles it. Maybe a more flexible method to unlock it would be nice! Buying access with rings on a store, having to defeat bosses without getting hit... there are many things they could try, I guess.

[JezMM]

Trip's story and time attack are post-game content certainly, but I don't consider them to be the equivalent to a Mario Special World - entire, original levels that play just like normal levels but are just harder than what is demanded of the player to reach and defeat the final boss and end the story.

It's all arbitrary when you really pick apart game design - the developers can put the final boss and the narrative "ending" wherever they like, ultimately the gameplay is just gameplay and the levels are levels whether they're before or after the credits.  It's just a shame that Sonic never really gets harder than what the developers think are reasonable demands of the player to finish the game - or when it does it's always in the form of just dumping extra enemies and hazards into the existing levels rather than exploring new gimmicks.

Like, in Mario 3D World, one of the most memorable post-game levels for me was the wooden blocks themed one where you have to navigate an obstacle course on a constantly rotating cylinder that moves depending on your weight/where you stand on it.  Of course, you cannot stay still when it rotates or you'll fall off the sides, and rotating it is the only way to progress, so you must constantly readjust yourself WHILE factoring in the geometry and enemies that you're passing by. This is a completely unique gameplay idea that IS very tricky to get to grips with for novice players and is certainly better suited as a post-game "only do it if you want to" type challenge.

Sonic games tend to show their whole hand in terms of creative ideas on the main playthrough - all they have to offer expert players is "do it again but instead of two enemies, there's FOUR enemies in the way this time".  It'd be nice to see a whole bonus zone or two with unique elements and gimmicks that are just that bit more complicated than is reasonable to expect every player to master to reach the end of the story and thus are better framed as extra bonus stages.

Sonic Forces kind of ALMOST did this with the optional stages all featuring gimmicks that don't show up in the main stages, but they weren't exactly creative either since all these gimmicks were lifted from Colours/Generations.

Edited January 8 by JezMM

[IHaveACaseOfSonicMania]

I'd love post game extra levels, I'd love to at least have some kind of short story. Something like an epilogue, maybe in Sonic Forces you get to go through extra levels with difficult obstacles, new enemies and more exciting level design. But I would really adore a plot to them, the example above could have the restoration cleaning up after the war is over, but now there's a new threat, maybe an Eggrobo, the real Metal Sonic or Eggman making his return, though this may interfere with the IDW Canon, so maybe not. But overall, yes, I'd love to see more post game levels, I just want some kind of plot to them, a quick epilogue to the main story.