Do you like the concept of the Restoration?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 minutes ago, Mauro Fonseca said:

With an upcoming Zelda movie in production, should Nintendo bear in consideration fans of the 80s Zelda cartoon?

They don’t have to pander to them.

[Mauro Fonseca]

But should they at least bear them in consideration? Would this be an ideal scenario?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

3 minutes ago, Mauro Fonseca said:

But should they at least bear them in consideration? Would this be an ideal scenario?

Again, they don’t have to pander to them.

Hell, you could do the reverse and consider them say the same thing towards those against it.

Edited February 12 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[LongcrierCat]

Okay, interesting response but the Super Mario Bros Movie literally did have callbacks to the old DiC Shows so...

What is your point?

[Mauro Fonseca]

I'm just asking, since apparently everything is equal. Should the new Zelda movie be made to the considerations of fans of the 80s cartoon? Should they be taken into the same amount of consideration as fans of Breath of the Wild? Should either be taken to the same amount of consideration as non-fan mainstream audiences?

 

You can keep repeating no one has to be pandered to, of course. In which case, well, nice to see you I guess. Can't imagine what else you have to post about here.

Edited February 12 by Mauro Fonseca

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Just now, Mauro Fonseca said:

I'm just asking, since apparently everything is equal. Should the new Zelda movie be made to the considerations of fans of the 80s cartoon? Should they be taken into the same amount of consideration as fans of Breath of the Wild? Should either be taken to the same amount of consideration as non-fan mainstream audiences?

They don’t have to pander to fans of the 90s cartoon.

They don’t have to pander to fans of Breath of the Wild.

They don’t have to pander to y’all.

[Wraith]

19 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

My point still stands that if that’s going to be the case—that if “they don’t have to pander to y’all”—then nobody should really be complaining or even critiquing about the stuff they don’t like, because you could just as easily make that sentiment towards anything.

I already explained why this is wrong though. There are people that have to pander to, 'satam fans' are just not a big enough group to be that. You could argue that restoration haters are the same and considering the book has gone on as is for 5 years without much movement in that department I'd probably agree. They clearly aren't listening to me and I've clearly stopped paying all that much attention to the book. Despite it introducing one of my favorite sonic characters ever it could not hold onto the momentum from that to save it's life. I used to buy digital copies of the issues but now I haven't thrown a cent it's way in over a year aside from the Scrapnik Island trade. It happens.

But I don't think that completely devalues the idea of critique. Even if Sonic Team never heard the ramblings I and like minded people have made over the years about their decaying game design, someone else might have.

But that's getting too deep into the woods of it. The point of my initial post was never to prod at the idea of critique anyway. Just Longcrier's original point that Sega was somehow missing out by not digging up older continuities. They very clearly aren't. Not all of these things have equal value. If you want this shit back just because you think it's dope then fine but the lack of a Sonic Expanded Universe isn't some sort of mistake.

Edited February 12 by Wraith

[Mauro Fonseca]

2 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

They don’t have to pander to fans of the 90s cartoon.

They don’t have to pander to fans of Breath of the Wild.

They don’t have to pander to y’all.

You will not pander to a house, you will not pander to a mouse, you will not pander here or there, you will not pander anywhere- you do not like green eggs and ham, you do not like them, Sam-I-Am?

2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

But I don't think that completely devalues the idea of critique. Even if Sonic Team never heard the ramblings I and like minded people have made over the years about their decaying game design, someone else might have.

(unrelated side note but to underline this point with the link, will recommend everyone check the demo for Rollin Rascal, lots of fun)

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

23 minutes ago, Mauro Fonseca said:

You will not pander to a house, you will not pander to a mouse, you will not pander here or there, you will not pander anywhere- you do not like green eggs and ham, you do not like them, Sam-I-Am?

Yes. Silly, isn’t it? Leads to a slippery slope.

24 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I already explained why this is wrong though. There are people that have to pander to, 'satam fans' are just not a big enough group to be that.
 

Yeah, neither were the fans of the Chaotix, Mighty, and Ray big enough either until they were brought back in Heroes and Mania respectively.

Which is why this whole idea of being pandered to is a lot more multifaceted than how big their respective fandoms are.

24 minutes ago, Wraith said:

But that's getting too deep into the woods of it. The point of my initial post was never to prod at the idea of critique anyway. Just Longcrier's original point that Sega was somehow missing out by not digging up older continuities. They very clearly aren't. Not all of these things have equal value. If you want this shit back just because you think it's dope then fine.

Your right. They don’t have equal value. But I don’t think that invalidates Longcrier’s point that they’re missing out on something’s that were around during Sonic’s golden age given the fact that it hasn’t actually stopped them from bringing other old concepts and characters back. Hell, they’re bringing back more infamous “Dark Age” characters and ideas like Black Doom in the upcoming Sonic x Shadow Generations rather than letting it stay buried in its infamy and making a whole new game instead, so clearly their idea of what is of value isn’t always in line with what we think is more valuable.

But if you say “they don’t have to pander to y’all”, then be prepared for that statement to be thrown right back in your face if you find yourself on the other end. That shit can lead to a slippery slope that you’re not going to like.

Edited February 12 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[GentlemanX]

19 hours ago, Mauro Fonseca said:

With an upcoming Zelda movie in production, should Nintendo bear in consideration fans of the 80s Zelda cartoon?

You say this as though including the line "Well excuse me, Princess" somewhere isn't a real possibility.

 

Personally, I find the whole current line of discussion kinda odd, as we were previously talking about the Restoration feeling like off brand Freedom Fighters and what the focus on them over the games cast was doing to the game cast's established dynamics. Sega!Sonic shouldn't be situated in one regular location too often, but he just can't seem to get away from Restoration HQ for too long (I nearly wrote Freedom HQ - man). I'd love for a story in IDW that really feels like a game adventure, but I can't really point to one that managed to really replicate that feel, at least not outside of the Classic stories.

As for the discussion about pandering/not pandering to the SatAM/Archie crowd, aren't they already doing that but just in a way that target demo doesn't actually like? Sega literally called Tangle and Whisper Freedom Fighters when they added them to Speed Battle. The comparisons to Scourge and Surge both in design and narrative hook are obvious. Characters like Amy and Lanolin have been critiqued as absorbing elements of Sally's character since IDW started and the latter was given a proper introduction. The only real difference is that IDW keeps introducing facsimiles of previous concepts rather than the originals, and we know that Sega has not allowed to them to use the Freedom Fighters since the question was first asked back in Year One - back when IDW made a point of ignoring every single inquiry about them by fans, to the point it was highlighted that the team would address them at their first convention appearance (only to not mention them and have to be flagged down immediately afterward to say "Oh, well we just meant we had an answer if we were asked, we can't control what people don't ask us").

It's also hard to take the "the audience for SatAM is too small" line too seriously when IDW has featured Witchcart and her minions or Gemerl and the Deadly Six over characters like Sally. You can follow the internal corporate logic about being parts of the brand earmarked as okay to reference versus not, but not from a popularity stand point. SatAM is not equivalent to DIC Zelda because Archie Sonic ran for over 20 years. Regardless of whether that content is acceptable to reference by Sega, you can't ignore that product's audience - it ensured that Sally and the other SatAM concepts remained a recognizable part of the brand to the target demo as recently as eight years ago, and again they were only removed because of internal decisions at Sega, not their own marketability given Archie was prepared to focus on them in the next Universe arc. I'm not saying that Sega needs SatAM fans on board to ensure sales, but I also think throwing that audience a real bone is likely to result in a net positive for them too.

(I'd love for this topic to be more about IDW's concepts' own strengths and weaknesses rather than just talking SatAM/Archie's concepts though)

[Slashy]

Flynn admitted the Restoration is overused.

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxOLJgkjyqyD-hbI_H5SYLm5Fz9ZeS801I?si=zXVG-1cGbOvHNhUG

Edited February 15 by Slashy

[Kuzu]

1 hour ago, Slashy said:

Flynn admitted the Restoration is overused.

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxOLJgkjyqyD-hbI_H5SYLm5Fz9ZeS801I?si=zXVG-1cGbOvHNhUG

Can you please not try to push your stupid Anti-IDW agenda and actually post the full context of the clip?

He said he didn't originally intend for it to be used as much but is fine with what Evan has in store with them. He literally even asked to NOT misinterpret his words to incite in-fighting,  ffs.