Do you like the concept of the Restoration?

[Slashy]

On 1/6/2024 at 7:10 AM, knuckles20 said:

I have no complaints regarding the Restoration in the comics.

Honestly after the events of Forces and Metal Virus saga, it makes way too much sense to have The Restoration around. Having an organization to combat threats such as Eggman and the Deadly Six and aid support to Sonic and Co. is beneficial in the long run.

There is no way anyone will say "Oh look, GUN's here, we can disband the Restoration now" if the comic introduces GUN alongside human society. It would be the dumbest thing anyone has ever done in the franchise to actively disarm themselves with several existing and possible future threats lurking around.

Sonic and friends were already capable of dealing with that, and the games are likely going to take that route given that they seem to have treated Forces as just another Eggman plot.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, Slashy said:

Sonic and friends were already capable of dealing with that, and the games are likely going to take that route given that they seem to have treated Forces as just another Eggman plot.

Mmkay, but what if there's an offchance that they're not capable and could have used the Restoration's help? A reminder that Forces (bad writing aside) made a point to have Sonic captured to establish the (poorly executed) high stakes involved and established the Resistance to begin with. (And seriously, let's not dwell on how bad Forces' writing is, because I'll spend a whole month ripping it shreds)

What your saying is the exact same argument people in nearly the past two decades used to justify Sonic not even needing his friends because "Sonic was already capable of dealing with Eggman by himself", so might as well get rid of his shitty friends. Not that it needs to be shown all the time, but there's a benefit to having extra help with dealing with potential problems/threats, which I can see the point behind having the Freedom Fighters Restoration.

Edited January 10 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Diogenes]

7 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Mmkay, but what if there's an offchance that they're not capable and could have used the Restoration's help?

Simply do not write that story.

[Slashy]

8 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Mmkay, but what if there's an offchance that they're not capable and could have used the Restoration's help? A reminder that Forces (bad writing aside) made a point to have Sonic captured to establish the (poorly executed) high stakes involved and established the Resistance to begin with. (And seriously, let's not dwell on how bad Forces' writing is, because I'll spend a whole month ripping it shreds)

What your saying is the exact same argument people in nearly the past two decades used to justify Sonic not even needing his friends because "Sonic was already capable of dealing with Eggman by himself", so might as well get rid of his shitty friends. Not that it needs to be shown all the time, but there's a benefit to having extra help with dealing with potential problems/threats, which I can see the point behind having the Freedom Fighters Restoration.

Sonic and close friends still do the bulk of the work of dealing with threats in the comic already. The Restoration is just there for logistics and dealing with fallout something that the games/Japanese side of the franchise never really had the heroes deal with.

The fact that Sonic and his friends are not part of the Restoration and have no interest in joining it shows why it is a bad idea to make a big deal.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Simply do not write that story.

Or we can stop ignoring hypotheticals.

3 hours ago, Slashy said:

Sonic and close friends still do the bulk of the work of dealing with threats in the comic already. The Restoration is just there for logistics and dealing with fallout something that the games/Japanese side of the franchise never really had the heroes deal with.

The fact that Sonic and his friends are not part of the Restoration and have no interest in joining it shows why it is a bad idea to make a big deal.

Not really? Just because they’re not interested in joining it doesn’t make it a bad idea to make it a big deal.

If you want to shift focus away from it it and more towards making other stories, that’s one thing. But that doesn’t make the organization itself pointless to have around, or even a bad thing to expand upon it to make it more worthwhile.

Again, you’re running into the exact same argument people used against Sonic’s friends. Might as well do away with them if Sonic could already handle threats by himself.

Edited January 10 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Slashy]

2 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Or we can stop ignoring hypotheticals.

This is fiction, you can ignore hypotheticals.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

5 minutes ago, Slashy said:

This is fiction, you can ignore hypotheticals.

No, that’s a cop out to dodge the question being asked.

I don’t know about you, but I actually prefer having an honest discussion on these topics.

Edited January 10 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Slashy]

3 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

No, that’s a cop out to dodge the question being asked.

I don’t know about you, but I actually prefer having an honest discussion on these topics.

It is not a copout, it is a misunderstanding of how storytelling works.

I am reminded of this video I watched recently which highlights the problem you have.

 

https://youtu.be/icr18BGpWpc

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 minutes ago, Slashy said:

It is not a copout, it is a misunderstanding of how storytelling works.

Fam, I write stories myself for fun. You can miss me with misunderstanding how storytelling works, because storytelling is all about exploring hypotheticals to begin with.

Edited January 10 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Slashy]

6 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Fam, I write stories myself for fun. You can miss me with misunderstanding how storytelling works, because storytelling is all about exploring hypotheticals to begin with.

And some hypotheticals don't work if you are writing for an official product that is trying to fit in canon.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

6 minutes ago, Slashy said:

And some hypotheticals don't work if you are writing for an official product that is trying to fit in canon.

You mean the canon that was already established that led to you making this entire topic questioning the existence of something within its canon—the concept of the Restoration?

Enlighten me. Because the hypothetical is already there anyway. Example: the Metal Virus arc and Urban Warfare, cases where Sonic and his friends weren’t able to handle everything on their own.

Edited January 10 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Slashy]

4 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

You mean the canon that was already established that led to you making this entire topic questioning the existence of something within its canon—the concept of the Restoration?

Enlighten me. Because the hypothetical is already there anyway.

The problem is that it has to be molded and forced to work within canon unlike say Archie which existed in its own variant of the Sonic universe that worked with this concept.

Urban Warfare required all of Sonic's friends and to be frank, felt like a horrible justification as Sonic has dealt with far more in the past. You could easily rewrite the story in a way that makes sense where you do not need all of that help.

You could also rewrite stories to justify Sonic's friends needing to show up.

Edited January 10 by Slashy

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

On 1/10/2024 at 3:32 PM, Slashy said:

The problem is that it has to be molded and forced to work within canon unlike say Archie which existed in its own variant of the Sonic universe that worked with this concept.

That’s what is commonly called as “storytelling.”

Every story you can think of takes a concept or idea and molds it into something to work with in its story.

Quote

 

Urban Warfare required all of Sonic's friends and to be frank, felt like a horrible justification as Sonic has dealt with far more in the past. You could easily rewrite the story in a way that makes sense where you do not need all of that help.

You could also rewrite stories to justify Sonic's friends needing to show up.

 

So, basically running into the same argument people used against having Sonic’s friends around. So why not do away with them entirely?

Not to mention the last sentence contradicts if not negates the previous one. If you can rewrite a story justifying Sonic’s friends needing to show up, then you could just as easily rewrite stories justifying the need of the Restoration’s assistance. You see how that gets into a false dilemma?

Edited January 18 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Slashy]

1 minute ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

That’s what is commonly called as “storytelling.”

There flat out should be some stories that should not be told depending on the limitations that you are working within.

The Restoration is not providing anything beyond a simple justification about how the world gets rebuilt. Every other story involving it is a fairly forced justification.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 minutes ago, Slashy said:

There flat out should be some stories that should not be told depending on the limitations that you are working within.

The Restoration is not providing anything beyond a simple justification about how the world gets rebuilt. Every other story involving it is a fairly forced justification.

What limitations? Explain.

Because the Restoration being used to explain how the world gets rebuilt isn’t its only purpose. It also works as a backup force assisting Sonic dealing with other threats if he and his friends unable to do so on their own or are unaware of.

That’s a good enough justification for them to be present.

Edited January 10 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Slashy]

Just now, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

What limitations? Explain.

Because the Restoration being used to explain how the world gets rebuilt isn’t its only purpose. It also works as a backup force assisting Sonic dealing with other threats if he and his friends unable to do so on their own.

That a good enough justification for them to be present.

The limitations of being tied to the same universe as the games, but also being beholden to them while the games are not beholden to the comics.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 minutes ago, Slashy said:

The limitations of being tied to the same universe as the games, but also being beholden to them while the games are not beholden to the comics.

They’re both canon to each other. They tell separate stories at different points in time and likely at different locations around the world. And the stories are approved by Sega themselves.

That’s not really a limitation.

Edited January 10 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Slashy]

10 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

They’re both canon to each other. They tell separate stories at different points in time and likely at different locations around the world. And the stories are approved by Sega themselves.

That’s not really a limitation.

It is limited since the games are made independently from the comics and are designed to not require the comics he read.

So the events of the comic can never have major lasting consequences.

Sonic could not join the organization even if he wanted to because the games are not gonna be built around the Restoration.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

25 minutes ago, Slashy said:

It is limited since the games are made independently from the comics and are designed to not require the comics he read.

So the events of the comic can never have major lasting consequences.

Sonic could not join the organization even if he wanted to because the games are not gonna be built around the Restoration.

The games themselves do the exact same thing to each other even without the comics. You are not required to play Heroes to know the events of Unleashed; you are not required to play Lost World to know the events of Forces as the events that occur in the former don’t carry any consequences to the latter; and you are especially not required to play Forces to know the events of Frontiers. 

That’s not any different with the comics despite occupying the same canon setting.

And the fact that Sonic isn’t an official member of the Restoration means he’s free to explore places outside their involvement (although being part of it wouldn't stop him from doing that anyway, so that's actually a moot point). That doesn’t equate to building anything around the organization in the games—It’s a background organization occupying the setting much like GUN did in the past that we see operating within the comics. That the comics choose to focus on it while the games focus on something else isn’t a limitation of any sort—it a matter of the two mediums of the same canon focusing on separate aspects of the canon’s setting. You could just as easily call them side-stories to the overall canon.

Edited January 10 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Slashy]

16 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

The games themselves do the exact same thing to each other even without the comics. You are not required to play Heroes to know the events of Unleashed; you are not required to play Lost World to know the events of Forces as the events that occur in the former don’t carry any consequences to the latter; and you are especially not required to play Forces to know the events of Frontiers. 

That’s not any different with the comics despite occupying the same canon setting.

And the fact that Sonic isn’t an official member of the Restoration means he’s free to explore places outside their involvement (although being part of it wouldn't stop him from doing that anyway, so that's actually a moot point). That doesn’t equate to building anything around the organization in the games—It’s a background organization occupying the setting much like GUN did in the past that we see operating within the comics. That the comics choose to focus on it while the games focus on something else isn’t a limitation of any sort—it a matter of the two mediums of the same canon focusing on separate aspects of the canon’s setting. You could just as easily call them side-stories to the overall canon.

The Restoration is built to avoid that kind of storytelling. The games never introduced some kind of homebase or organization or dealt with consequences because there were not meant to be lasting consequences.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

11 minutes ago, Slashy said:

The Restoration is built to avoid that kind of storytelling. The games never introduced some kind of homebase or organization or dealt with consequences because there were not meant to be lasting consequences.

The games introduced the Resistance in Forces, which then became the Restoration in the comics. What are you talking about the games never introduced a base or organization? It was already there before IDW even started making comics for it.

Edited January 10 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Sonictrainer]

Honestly, the idea of a large scale clarity organization that works on helping clean up after Eggman's (or whoever the villain is) messes or evil plans fail is cool.

Especially now that GUN is gone.

Edited January 10 by Sonictrainer

[Slashy]

42 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

Honestly, the idea of a large scale clarity organization that works on helping clean up after Eggman's (or whoever the villain is) messes or evil plans fail is cool.

Especially now that GUN is gone.

That is not the issue, the issue is that it has become a massive story focus.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

10 minutes ago, Slashy said:

That is not the issue, the issue is that it has become a massive story focus.

Then make a different story without their involvement?

This really isn't that big an issue. Right now they have a lot of focus, but once this current arc ends (and provided they continue making comics after their break), they can just as easily make a whole different story where they're not in reach of helping the heroes involved.

Edited January 10 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Slashy]

6 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Then make a different story without their involvement?

This really isn't that big an issue. Right now they have a lot of focus, but once this current arc ends (and provided they continue making comics after their break), they can just as easily make a whole different story where they're not in reach of helping the heroes involved.

They could also just stop referencing it and focus on stories that work with the game cast.