SONIC FRONTIERS Story Trailer

[Cayenne]

4 hours ago, Starnik said:

Sonic doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Sonic Team have always taken inspiration from multiple sources for Sonic. Also green hill is like the most iconic stage in the entire franchise. My guess is Sonic Team continues to use that particular stage in order for casuals to recognize the game as Sonic. Without the cyberspace stages, people would say the game doesn’t look like Sonic, even though Sonic hasn’t only been bright and colorful. But whatever. 

I think you are misinterpreting my comment. I didn't say anything about Sonic being 100% original or not taking inspiration from other sources, my main concern is seeing the games, once again, using the concept of revisiting old levels from the past(not just GHZ)instead of having something totally new. I don't want every game to be Sonic Generations with a new hat.

There's better ways to make the game appealing for casuals that are more than "Hey guys, remember this level from Sonic's past? Pretty cool, huh?".

[TSS Classic Comment Bot]

Posted By: Shard the Angel

So the “leaked” release date was slightly off, still a good indication of future DLC tho

[VO.SUPER]

Ill be picking this on Switch. I'm sure it'll have hiccups, but this time, I think Switch is being used as the base version versus what happened to SCU and Sonic Team just enhanced from there. 

Judging by how people look at the visuals as mediocre even in the non-Switch version, I wouldnt be surprised if that was the case.  

[Scar]

6 hours ago, Diogenes said:

If they want people to recognize it as a Sonic game then maybe they should make the whole thing look like a Sonic game, and not just reuse old themes for the linear levels.

I get your point, but something that "looks like a Sonic game" is basically a meaningless sentence. Especially to the mainstream market.

[Sonicka]

7 hours ago, The Deleter said:

Incredible

This has got to be the Smartest retooling yet. Amazing

Cyberspace, is supposed to be Sonic’s mixed up or lost memories or something to that effect right? So repackaging older level designs in such a way is kinda weirdly inspired (if slightly half arsed). I’m actually impressed. 

But I mean - these levels aren’t really the main focus of this game anyway from what I understand. When the cyberspace stuff was rumoured then revealed, I pondered if this would be treated in a “special/bonus stage” kind of design …which appears to be the case (heck the entrances are basically giant starposts).

But ok, if Sonic Team can’t hire decent level designers to make better linear boost stages, then just steal from the past. Sure. 

[Scar]

Smart? Its fucking laziness.

[Jango]

7 hours ago, The Deleter said:

Incredible

LMAO ! I would actually be happier if it WAS Apotos, because that sure was one really important memory in Sonic's life, he's just lost a battle against Eggman and got turned into a werewolf. 

...

But they fucking dressed Apotos in Green Hill clothes, holy shit balls. I'm serious, this got to be some syndrome, Sonic's imagining every place he's been through as Green Hill. It's Green-Hill-Sleep-Paralysis. The poor guy.

...

No, but they're obviously cutting corners here with that, there's no denying that. 

60 bucks, man.

[Cosmos Rogue]

Needing to reuse art assets and level design are more likely to be the start of Frontiers' creative process than deciding they had a killer story that just needed Green Windmill Hill Isle Zone to work.

[Razule]

It'd probably be $70 at least if they actually did make whole new level designs for 40+ optional 1 min. long stages.

Man.. I don't know. If this was a normal Sonic game, I'd be extremely concerned, but it isn't. This isn't the whole game or main part of the game. This is a weird case where the gimmick of the game is the main attraction and the typical Sonic part is a side thing. And also the gimmick is supposed to be Sonic from now on.

We're mainly focusing on this right now because there's barely more open-zone clips. 

[ZinogreVolt]

For the tutorial level in particular, I don't really see any benefit to making a brand new tutorial stage outright other than saying "hey, we made a new one!" so in this case I don't really mind. If anything, I encourage them reusing that kind of stuff since tutorials are such a minute part of the experience in long term. 

Whether this reuse of stage design/geometry will be a benefit or detriment to me will have to remain to be seen. If it makes up only a percentage of the cyberspace levels (say 10-20%) then sure, cool. Otherwise, I'll have issue with it, but there is already a massive chunk of game here that's completely original. So I'm not gonna be upset at how it turns out either or, even if I do end up sorta begrudgingly accepting that.

[FlameStream]

Going back to the original topic. I just looked at the JP trailer, and interestingly (but probably not too surprising), the script is very different, giving it very different feel.

Quote

Escape scene:

せージ 「ソニック・ザ・ヘッジホッグ…音速のハリネズミ。」
Sage: Sonic the Hedgehog... Sound-speed hedgehog.
---
Sage: Submit... Your reckless actions endanger the world.

 

This is a very interesting line from my perspective. I don't think he was ever addressed this way in-game before. The expression 音速のハリネズミ was always a description of him but I can't recall hearing that before the first movie marketing (and a little more recently, the JP gaming streams played by Ed, Onsoku Gamers.) As a side note, this can also be translated as "Sonic Hedgehog, heh.

In any case, assuming it's the first encounter, this scene portrays Sonic trying to avoid any kind of (continued) contact, rather than unwilling to listen to her.

Quote

Reunion scene

ソニック「エミー！ここのいたのか」
Sonic: Amy! This is where you were.
---
Sonic: Amy, is that you?

 

Nothing too special about this one. But the implication here is that he may have been looking for her.

Quote

Showdown Scene

せージ「何をしても結果は変わらない。あなたを排除する。」
Sage: The outcome will be the same no matter what you do. I shall eliminate you.
---
Sage: You cannot run forever. Leave, immediately.

 

Admittedly, I can't quite clearly hear what is said on the second part, but this seems to fit the sounds. This is somewhat probably the most equivalent of the 3 scenes. Except here, we're hearing that she's now on the offensive.

[expansivelovestories]

Yes   ^___^  <<^O^>>

I think it is logical that the english trailer is to help fans of OG modern Sonic to know it is possible to play the game like that.

And then this totally different one seems to be showing that it is maybe going to be one of the most interesting soft reboot games of all time!!

the environments are huge and interactive and the physics are flexible, and, the story seems mysterious and creative. 

[Shiny Gems]

About the geometry or level layout, I did see that there was quite some reused stuff. However, I do find this complaining, pointing out or whatever you want to call what we are doing about the level design to make me bring up something else. Now, before I go any further, I do acknowledge that there are differences as I will point out, and this game I am going to bring up was built from the ground up if I recall correctly. Nonetheless, I do want to bring up that the game, Sonic Mania (which was a new Sonic game when it came out) had reused old zones, but that is not all. Some of the reused level design from what I recall; like Green Hill Zone, did use some of the level design from their original counterparts for much of the first acts (I could be wrong, though). I kinda don't see the problem with Sonic Team reusing level layouts in Frontiers.

Now, I am well aware about the rest of the game (Sonic Mania), and even the reused zones had plenty of original content in them. I think the same can happen for Sonic Frontiers' Cyberspace levels, too. Still, I know how original Mania was, and if they do continue using old level designs from past games in the later levels of Sonic Frontiers, well, I must admit, I won't be happy and I will see nothing in that to defend it about. What I am trying to say comparing Mania to Frontiers can only go so far, in fact, I don't think it goes that far to begin with.

But if I recall correctly, I do think some reused stuff was used in Mania in terms of level design. Now I am honestly not calling out anyone for hypocrisy or anything like that. Know that I am a guy who likes to learn about situations like these. The real question I must ask is...

Why exactly are we not so thrilled about Frontiers using the same level designs form past games again? I can see it can be lazy, especially compared to Mania perhaps, but what does make Frontiers' case any worse?

Remember, I do not plan to defend the level design in Frontiers if this keeps up, and I am not really defending it now. I just want to get a clear understanding of things if that is okay.

[Razule]

50 minutes ago, MightyGems said:

Why exactly are we not so thrilled about Frontiers using the same level designs form past games again? I can see it can be lazy, especially compared to Mania perhaps, but what does make Frontiers' case any worse?

Remember, I do not plan to defend the level design in Frontiers if this keeps up, and I am not really defending it now. I just want to get a clear understanding of things if that is okay.

Mania gets some criticism for reusing old levels, but not close to the same extent because it's explicitly a Classic Sonic game made to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the franchise. Sonic Frontiers is latest game releasing 5 years after the last one, and people expect new experiences out of Modern Sonic games. 

Likewise, no one's upset that Sonic Generations had remade stages, because it was the 20th anniversary game. 

[Shiny Gems]

2 minutes ago, Razule said:

Mania gets some criticism for reusing old levels, but not close to the same extent because it's explicitly a Classic Sonic game made to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the franchise. Sonic Frontiers is latest game releasing 5 years after the last one, and people expect new experiences out of Modern Sonic games. 

Likewise, no one's upset that Sonic Generations had remade stages, because it was the 20th anniversary game. 

HENCE the reason I noted there were significant differences between Mania and Frontiers. I did forget about Generations for some reason though.

I am pretty sure something like a Sonic Mania 2 is wanted, but since it would be the second time around, in the case of classic games, I am guessing there would be any criticism for a potential Mania 2 reusing old zones rather than doing something new altogether?

[Sega DogTagz]

40 minutes ago, MightyGems said:

Why exactly are we not so thrilled about Frontiers using the same level designs form past games again? I can see it can be lazy, especially compared to Mania perhaps, but what does make Frontiers' case any worse?

Mania is a poor contrast for this situation because of what it was as a product and because it wore that heritage on its sleeve. It was apparent from the day that it was revealed that Mania would feature reconstructions of old content alongside new stuff. It wasn't some hush-hush secret. Furthermore, Mania was a celebration of the old as much as it was something new. Some people even saw it as the devils cut, considering it was an outside studio that got the blessing to allow for the game to exist at all.

 

Frontiers is supposed to be something new. Its one thing to re-use assets, but to straight up rip level geometry from other games is downright insulting - particularly so since the 2 levels we've seen in depth so far both are heavily reused from Unleashed's first two boost levels, leading doubt as to if there is much originality to be had here at all. There is no understanding upfront to expect to play through levels we've been through before with a new coat of paint, nor is this a generations angle where the level geometry was all new, just bringing back level themes.

 

This is just Unleashed levels in a Gens coat of paint. They'd have been better off releasing Unleashed on PC rather than trying to pass this off. Nobody wants to look forward to something we already had 12 years ago. We are supposed to be pushing Sonic forward not circling back around to the start of the boost era.

[Shiny Gems]

I don't know, I am pretty sure I have seen some reused level assets in other games. I saw someone say Resident Evil had some situations where there were reused geometries.

I do know that it seems common to reuse assets and even geometries in games. If I were to fully defend Sonic Frontiers' design, I know that since we have not seen too much, it can only go so far. Still, there were new games of any franchise that reused old stuff. Why is Sonic an exceptional offender in this case? Just because this game is new does not mean it is going to be, or has to be all new.

[Razule]

14 minutes ago, MightyGems said:

I am pretty sure something like a Sonic Mania 2 is wanted, but since it would be the second time around, in the case of classic games, I am guessing there would be any criticism for a potential Mania 2 reusing old zones rather than doing something new altogether?

Yeah, after all this time, if they unveil a Mania 2 and the first thing people see is Green Hill and Chemical Plant again, there'll be backlash.

[KHCast]

I really do gotta ask the hyped crowd, if there’s anything that wouldn’t get them defending the game if they see it getting criticized, cause I’m sorry I find it weird we’re at a point in sonic games with wanting basic average quality at the very least, that it results in people making defenses for the game straight up Re-using level design. 

[Shiny Gems]

Come to think of it though, Sonic Team has been reusing ideas lately in anniversary games. Like Classic Sonic in Forces and the reused assets for Sonic Frontiers. I do have nothing against it personally, but Frontiers being an anniversary title does only so much. I do wonder how this could bite Sonic Team in the back if this goes on in later games, especially anniversary ones. Those kinds of games won't keep the excuse of reusing things strong forever, right?

[D.H]

39 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I really do gotta ask the hyped crowd, if there’s anything that wouldn’t get them defending the game if they see it getting criticized, cause I’m sorry I find it weird we’re at a point in sonic games with wanting basic average quality at the very least, that it results in people making defenses for the game straight up Re-using level design. 

People that are hyped for the game have been more than willing to point out parts of what was shown that they didn't like, or had concerns about. There is no need to ask if there's "anything that wouldn't get them defending the game" when we already know the answer is no.

Just because some don't take umbrage with an optional, ultimately side part of the game re-using layouts & assets doesn't mean they're gonna stan every decision SEGA makes with this game, lmao

[KHCast]

8 minutes ago, D.H said:

People that are hyped for the game have been more than willing to point out parts of what was shown that they didn't like, or had concerns about. There is no need to ask if there's "anything that wouldn't get them defending the game" when we already know the answer is no.

Just because some don't take umbrage with an optional, ultimately side part of the game re-using layouts & assets doesn't mean they're gonna stan every decision SEGA makes with this game, lmao

Literally looking on Twitter whenever frontiers gets criticized, all I ever see is people dogpile on those people and say whatever it is they’re pointing out “doesn’t matter” (or in the case of the cyberspace levels being old levels, something called out well in advance, saying those people are crazy/delusional and that they’re making it up based on “inconclusive” video evidence)

[ZinogreVolt]

52 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I really do gotta ask the hyped crowd, if there’s anything that wouldn’t get them defending the game if they see it getting criticized, cause I’m sorry I find it weird we’re at a point in sonic games with wanting basic average quality at the very least, that it results in people making defenses for the game straight up Re-using level design. 

Plenty of stuff. I dislike re-used stage theming more than I do re-used stage design, and them reusing stuff from Generations is especially tiresome since Green Hill and Chemical Plant have effectively become a constant across nearly every game in the past 10 years. I dislike quite a bit of the animation work (even if it has noticeably improved over some builds) and think its notably below games like Unleashed or Generations. I also don't like the way that obstacles and hazards in the environment aren't naturally built into the world, regardless of explanation or context it just looks all kinds of off. I say that as someone who actually loves the game's overall art direction too.

That said, elements such as control, combat, story, tone, enemy/character design, art direction, etc. are things I would actually go up to bat for. Even despite my grievances, it's the Sonic game I've more or less wanted since I first played Adventure 1.

[D.H]

9 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Literally looking on Twitter whenever frontiers gets criticized, all I ever see is people dogpile on those people and say whatever it is they’re pointing out “doesn’t matter” (or in the case of the cyberspace levels being old levels, something called out well in advance, saying those people are crazy/delusional and that they’re making it up based on “inconclusive” video evidence)

Are the same people defending the cyberspace levels the same ones who defended the initial IGN trailer, or whatever? Because there was plenty of people that were/are interested in Frontiers that were bothered by different things because they had different priorities.

Also, Twitter is a hostile cesspool where people fling shit & dogpile on each other all the time, it's not indicative of people refusing to criticize the game, when there's plenty examples of people doing just that on this very forum. Hell, someone on twitter got doxxed for being excited for Frontiers IIRC. None of that behavior is okay, but it shouldn't be used as a point of reference for the fans who are hyped for the game

[Sega DogTagz]

I think its worth clarifying that reusing assets, reusing themes and reusing level designs are three different things and are varied degree's of problems.

 

Reusing assets is a common tool to save development time. We've seen the Egg Dragoon a handful of times as a Boss character now. Re-used asset. While some people might feel it overstayed its welcome, each of the three boss fights is unique and new, despite the old enemy.

 

Reused themes are usually just here for nostalgia pandering. Think GHZ. Again, in moderation, its fine. We've been beat upside the head with the same small handful of levels by this point, so people make a fuss, but its not out of the ordinary. Honestly, there are so many great tropes in Sonic that most of that griping is just longing to get some of the other old levels some shine.

 

Reusing level layouts is the bummer here. With no signs of original content to show at the moment, Frontiers is just wrapping up last years Christmas presents and trying to slide them back under the tree. Santa ain't that slick yo. Sonic games have been content starved for decade, but nobody wants to see reruns on their shiny new game. It be different if this was a supplement (like a small percentage of Cyspace levels or somehting) but its like 100% of what we've seen so far. Thats scary.