Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[DabigRG]

6 minutes ago, In All The World said:

Oi. Wanna share something here...

Anyone feel like Forces just screams "cut content" out loud?

All of that just screams that cut content aloud... Really strange.

 

Yes, yes it does. There was a lot of emphasis on the key aspects that came with viral promotion pre-release, such as Infinite having a vocal theme song made for him. This made it clear that this game was indeed gonna be a huge deal and the leaked product feels like there was a severe cutoff later in development that led to the story being rushed/underdeveloped and the level design feeling relatively minimal.

Just now, Diogenes said:

Maybe they heard everyone moaning about how he came off like an omnipotent science wizard in Lost World and they decided to tone him down a bit.

 

Pretty much this, from what I got out of it.

[In All The World]

Just now, DabigRG said:

Yes, yes it does. There was a lot of emphasis on the key aspects that came with viral promotion pre-release, such as Infinite having a vocal theme song made for him. This made it clear that this game was indeed gonna be a huge deal and the leaked product feels like there was a severe cutoff later in development that led to the story being rushed/underdeveloped and the level design feeling relatively minimal.

Yeah, pretty much. To think that they actually could have been able to make Forces the best Sonic game, but thanks to the repetitive problem with cutoffs they seem to have... they didn't. I did think they knew better to delay the game, but considering how this was supposed to be coupled with Mania as an anniversary title, it could have been that as well.

I think this entire fiasco is going to be one of ST's biggest mistakes, but luckily not one they'll regret. It's nowhere near as bad as RoL, 06, or Lost World, and it definitely has many saving merits. But I'm just really saddened over all of this.

 

[Dr. Egguman]

7 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Maybe they heard everyone moaning about how he came off like an omnipotent science wizard in Lost World and they decided to tone him down a bit.

Or maybe Infinite's in Omega's brain and he needs a kiss from his true love Shadow to wake up.

e: and yeah I wouldn't doubt one bit that the game got hacked up a lot from what they originally planned. But it is what it is.

I agree, but they could do this in other way, like the way they did tails don't understanding the codes on his miles eletric on first cutscene, or... a super computer who he don't understand how to operate cuz his code is a mess... I don't know, but this is part of his personality: Tails is smart enough to make and fix robots. Also, who was the one who build those wisp gadgets? glad Knuckles is leader of resistence but he is not the kind who can do robot things.

[Almar]

No one has pointed out the obvious case to sideline Tails: Making Buddy more important.

[Dr. Egguman]

29 minutes ago, In All The World said:

Oi. Wanna share something here...

Anyone feel like Forces just screams "cut content" out loud? I remember Iizuka said something about feeling that Forces wasn't ready to be released some time ago, so I guess even that man has standards.

When he said isn't ready to release it? Also, yeah, screams cut content out loud. I always asked myself why SEGA won't change his policies of "release date", EVERY. SONIC. GAME. Is developed fast. REALLY. They really need to take a look at Nintendo, they delayed Zelda like 3 times? Look how beautiful is this game now. I really don't mind wait for a Sonic game 5 years or 7, we know it's hard to do and even developers need a break time from this stress. I just want to play a good Sonic game, not a rushed one. 

[dbzfan7]

1 minute ago, Almar said:

No one has pointed out the obvious case to sideline Tails: Making Buddy more important.

Fanfiction 101. FC character replaces Tails and pretty much becomes Sonic's best friend/partner. Tails either is barely important, missing, kidnapped, or dead. It's pretty much more or less forces.

[DabigRG]

7 minutes ago, Almar said:

No one has pointed out the obvious case to sideline Tails: Making Buddy more important.

I think you mean cause. And I partially disagree.

Tails, for better or worse, remain one of the most prevalent characters in the game even if his technical know how wasn't that emphasized and he didn't get as many scenes to interact with the real Sonic. In fact, he gets more screentime and focus than Classic(though, if we're being honest hear, he really didn't need to be here anyway). While this may be because he generally piggybacked off of Classic and Buddy, he is still the one to figure out the deal with the Phantom Rubies powers, gets a personal jab in with Eggman, and is even the one who has the vaguely sentimental goodbye with Classic in the end.

Honestly, while I suppose Buddy had some minor hand in that, I was always of the mindset that it was Knuckles who was really directly downplaying him.

[In All The World]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Egguman said:

When he said isn't ready to release it? Also, yeah, screams cut content out loud. I always asked myself why SEGA won't change his policies of "release date", EVERY. SONIC. GAME. Is developed fast. REALLY. They really need to take a look at Nintendo, they delayed Zelda like 3 times? Look how beautiful is this game now. I really don't mind wait for a Sonic game 5 years or 7, we know it's hard to do and even developers need a break time from this stress. I just want to play a good Sonic game, not a rushed one. 

Looking for the article rn. I could easily be wrong though.

 

It took them until Fire and Ice to delay a game, and now they didn't even do it. If it had that extra half year or even a full year it'd be phenomenal.

[Dr. Egguman]

4 minutes ago, In All The World said:

It took them until Fire and Ice to delay a game, and now they didn't even do it. If it had that extra half year or even a full year it'd be phenomenal.

I remember this delay, but I think the reason for this is those spoilers of season 2 of Sonic Boom by the time. I see no changes in the game after release. It's better than the first boom of 3DS, for sure, but not something that made me want to play.

[Clewis]

1 hour ago, Dr. Egguman said:

When he said isn't ready to release it? Also, yeah, screams cut content out loud. I always asked myself why SEGA won't change his policies of "release date", EVERY. SONIC. GAME. Is developed fast. REALLY. They really need to take a look at Nintendo, they delayed Zelda like 3 times? Look how beautiful is this game now. I really don't mind wait for a Sonic game 5 years or 7, we know it's hard to do and even developers need a break time from this stress. I just want to play a good Sonic game, not a rushed one. 

Just because Sega never openly delayed the game like they did with Mania, doesn't mean the project's intended release date wasn't pushed back during development.

And honestly, they've been sitting on this project (or some iteration of it) for four years now. I know the current version of Forces was probably thrown together during the last year and a half or so, but I don't think Sega could actually afford to delay this game any further. They probably felt like they had to put something out there in an attempt to make up for the other 2.5 years they funded that ultimately resulted in nothing.

It really does feel like they're just burning money with the Sonic franchise at times.

[Dr. Egguman]

1 minute ago, Clewis said:

Just because Sega never openly delayed the game like they did with Mania, doesn't mean the project's intended release date wasn't pushed back during development.

And honestly, they've been sitting on this project (or some iteration of it) for four years. Four. I know the current version of Forces was probably thrown together during the last year and a half or so, but I don't think Sega could actually afford to delay this game any further. They probably felt like they had to put something out there in an attempt to make up for the other 2.5 years they funded that ultimately resulted in nothing.

It really does feel like they're just burning money with the Sonic franchise at times.

It's just... I look at Sonic Forces and don't believe it was 4 years of dev. But I get your point and agreen.

[Meta77]

9 hours ago, Super Mechanio said:

Ruthless and funny aren't opposites. They can coexist. You can be both simultaneously.

It doesn't make sense for Eggman's empire to be a boring drab sand-filled trash heap without any of the bright colorful aesthetics that are usually associated with him. Eggman should be changing the world. The act of conquering the world shouldn't change Eggman.

Not everything in his name is colorful. Flying fortress is far from it and destroying a ocean aka oil ocean. He's not changed but eggman far from goofy. Sega just doesn't seem to know how to use him. From being down a entire island forest in S3  to having a run away roller coaster ride in unleashed

[Dr. Mechano]

32 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Not everything in his name is colorful. Flying fortress is far from it and destroying a ocean aka oil ocean. He's not changed but eggman far from goofy. Sega just doesn't seem to know how to use him. From being down a entire island forest in S3  to having a run away roller coaster ride in unleashed

Oil Ocean was not literally an entire ocean. "Ocean" was figurative. The zone took place on Westside Island, which certainly didn't contain an entire ocean's worth of water.

Also, his flying fortresses are very colorful. The Egg Fleet are shaped like cute little fishies! Fish that'll blow you to bits, granted, but fish nonetheless. And let's not forget that his grand space station is just a giant mustachioed Star Wars parody. And yet the Death Egg is still treated as a serious weapon in the series, because it is. It can be goofy and threatening at the same time, much like Eggman himself.

My issue with Forces is that he replaced all his Badniks with boring generic "militarized" models. His world isn't full of bright flashy shows of his ego at all. It's as if Sonic Team sucked out most of Eggman's pizzazz in this game and turned him into more of a generic conqueror without his visual flair and personality. He just comes across as kind of hollow in this game, which sucks, because a game all about Eggman conquering the world should have Eggman at his absolute best.

[StaticMania]

Eggman is good at taking something that can be seen as goofy and make it out to be somewhat of a legitimate "threat" sometimes...definitely.

[Razule]

1 hour ago, Meta77 said:

Not everything in his name is colorful. Flying fortress is far from it and destroying a ocean aka oil ocean. He's not changed but eggman far from goofy. Sega just doesn't seem to know how to use him. From being down a entire island forest in S3  to having a run away roller coaster ride in unleashed

Yah, but.. you practically have to cherry pick to find examples of him that aren't colorful and lively. The first robot of his we ever see is a ladybug with a wheel

 

Just look at his temper tantrum if you got all the Emeralds in Sonic 1, he's always been a goofy manchild.

Does this look like a totally serious villain? He's adorable! No wonder Knuckles was tricked. Of course it's in contrast to him, in fact, being the bad guy, but he's still a crazy genius clown.

I'm honestly surprised so many people like Forces Eggman. He's so.. muted. He's basically 06 Eggman back from the dead. I liked Unleashed to Lost World Eggman. Like, maybe the issue isn't his personality, but how people react to him. The characters can treat him as a threat, but he can still be goofy at the same time. Because either way he loses every game, the characters being meta about it or not doesn't change that.

[Dannymax440]

Because he's not used or upstaged to show how powerful the new villain is. Because he doesn't get constantly mocked about his incompetence by his minions. Because he displays planning ahead and competence despite his plans failing.

Also, the story in '06 was basically a watered-down version of a basic Mario plot.

[TargetWatch]

2 hours ago, Razule said:

Yah, but.. you practically have to cherry pick to find examples of him that aren't colorful and lively. The first robot of his we ever see is a ladybug with a wheel

 

Just look at his temper tantrum if you got all the Emeralds in Sonic 1, he's always been a goofy manchild.

Does this look like a totally serious villain? He's adorable! No wonder Knuckles was tricked. Of course it's in contrast to him, in fact, being the bad guy, but he's still a crazy genius clown.

I'm honestly surprised so many people like Forces Eggman. He's so.. muted. He's basically 06 Eggman back from the dead. I liked Unleashed to Lost World Eggman. Like, maybe the issue isn't his personality, but how people react to him. The characters can treat him as a threat, but he can still be goofy at the same time. Because either way he loses every game, the characters being meta about it or not doesn't change that.

I

Whilst it's true Egg Man can be humorous when it comes to his over bloated ego getting the best of him, he can be an intimidating villain who'll stop at nothing to get what he wants. Egg Man is usually most interesting when he's at his most desperate I find. Whether it be fire-bombing an island or stealing ancient relics of mass destruction or doing deals with powerful beings who then later on betray him. It's these moments I find potentially separate Egg Man from other villains. His appearance is especially ominous when his mouth or expression is hidden under his mustache.   

 

[RLS Legacy]

Friendly reminder that LEGO Dimensions, a game based on a Danish construction toy, has a more engaging and multi-layered Chaos boss fight than the new official Sonic the Hedgehog title.

In that it actually HAS one.

[Ayliffe]

16 minutes ago, RLS Legacy said:

Friendly reminder that LEGO Dimensions, a game based on a Danish construction toy, has a more engaging and multi-layered Chaos boss fight than the new official Sonic the Hedgehog title.

In that it actually HAS one.

Also friendly reminder that LEGO Dimensions, a game by a studio that hasn't changed up their core gameplay formula in 12 years, also decided to change up their core gameplay, rework the open-world camera and add actual momentum physics... literally just for a single character in one £30 add-on pack. 

If SEGA could licence out the rights for Sonic to TT (or any other studio passionate about the franchise, for that matter) so they can produce new games instead of ST, that'd be properly great thanks.

[RLS Legacy]

2 minutes ago, Ayliffe said:

Also friendly reminder that LEGO Dimensions, a game by a studio that hasn't changed up their core gameplay formula in 12 years, also decided to change up their core gameplay, rework the open-world camera and add actual momentum physics... literally just for a single character in one £30 add-on pack. 

If SEGA could licence out the rights for Sonic to TT (or any other studio passionate about the franchise, for that matter) so they can produce new games instead of ST, that'd be properly great thanks.

Man, this is reminding me what a blast just running around the Sonic world in Dimensions was. The physics felt great, as did the homing attack.

You see this, Sonic Team? Do this. Don't be outmatched by LEGO. For God's sake.

[Gabz Girl]

9 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Yes, yes it does. There was a lot of emphasis on the key aspects that came with viral promotion pre-release, such as Infinite having a vocal theme song made for him. This made it clear that this game was indeed gonna be a huge deal and the leaked product feels like there was a severe cutoff later in development that led to the story being rushed/underdeveloped and the level design feeling relatively minimal.

Not only was there a lot of hype/promotion for Infinite and his mysterious origins, but there was also not one but TWO special Infinite logos that appeared in the trailers. These logos...never appeared in the final game. What was even the POINT of those logos then? False marketing?

Oh Sonic Forces...it may not be as disastrous as Sonic 06 but it isn’t a great showing for the hedgehog either, especially for a supposedly 25th Anniversary game. 

Yeah about that, how is it a 25th Anniversary game? Has Sega ever officially stated it as being one? It doesn’t have the Anniversary sticker on the box so...

[RLS Legacy]

9 minutes ago, Gabz Girl said:

Not only was there a lot of hype/promotion for Infinite and his mysterious origins, but there was also not one but TWO special Infinite logos that appeared in the trailers. These logos...never appeared in the final game. What was even the POINT of those logos then? False marketing?

They're actually on the soles of his shoes.

Which is completely stupid.

Getting back onto the topic of Forces: 

I sincerely hope they were aware of the implications of this line because... Christ, Amy. Keep your lewd fantasies to yourself.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

Man what a dissapointment.
A game about Dr. Eggman in charge. So do we get scared citizens worshipping Eggman statues, giant Tv screens of Eggman demanding citizens to do silly things in his honor, an even more extreme version of Mania's Robotnik Tv show? Do we get Robotnik themed circusses, opera's, themeparks? Nope, nope nope.

People on this thread keep comparing it to SATAM Robotnik but even that's way overshooting it, at least SATam Robotnik sits on an epic throne, feels like the center and beating heart of a terrifying empire, sending out giant armies or robots and battleships out to destroy entire forests.
What does Forces Eggman even do? Hang around with Cubot and Orbot in Green Hill zone immediatly getting his ass kicked by Classic Sonic hopping by. Great.
That's the culimination of the concept of Eggman being in control of the world, him being the same dumbass he is in the light hearted filler adventures.
Except here it feels horribly out of place.
It's not light hearted silly Sonic, but neither is it Dark Serious Sonic. It's nothing. It's in a meaningless purgatory in the middle.
Even in Sonic Colors Eggman had more of an evil presence with the Themepark anouncements. This game has the coolest premise ever, why is it so booooooooring??

I rushed off this crummy Flash movie in 5 days after I was amused with Webber's statement that Big's having vacation during the Forces events. I figured I wouldn't even touch the surface of the actual crazy things Robotnik would be doing as master of the world, but nope, even with rushing everything and having to delete half my jokes I got more out of the concept then Forces ever did. Boo.

And the story keeps focusing on stupid Mc Guffin nonsense. The writers are practically patting themselves on the back how proud they are that they came up with the great plot twist of "Eggman had 2 power sources" like that's some kind of crazy twist. Yawn. Sonic Adventure Eggman had about 4 or 5 back up plans and never made a big deal about it. Even in Colors, Eggman had 6 or 7 generators, but now him having one back up is supposed to be the great twist? Buzz off.
Isn't that the type of mundane stuff you should get out of the way with the in-level banter? Sure let Knuckles prattle on about back up generators and other Mc Guffin stuff during the level missions. But keep the cutscenes for cool stuff happening.

Just like Sonic Lost world there's no flow in the writing. We don't get a transition between Dumb Knuckles/ Guardian Knuckles into him taking the role of Rebellion leader. He just magically is. All we get is the comic and even that one was a "Oh, I suddenly decided to become a leader of a rebellion" out of thin air.
I hate complaining about this because I'm so happy Knuckles is finally useful in some way. But it's exactly this type of careless "Oh, now just assume THIS is how the characters are supposed to be" quality of wiring that creates my intense distrust and lack of respect in the writing and why the Sonic series is just a pile of brainless meta fanservice these days.

We don't get to see the world being peaceful and natural before the time skip, so there's no contrast after Eggman took over. It's already broken and corrupted before Eggman's victory, with no advancements afterward. We don't see a heroic tough looking Tails suddenly realizing he's way over his head and break down, he's cowardly right from the start.
Sonic isn't affected by his "torture". It's just empty meanignless dark banter just like Lost world with it's "Eggman will strangle the Zeti" stuff that never went anywhere. All this "dark dialogue" just feels like troll bait. Get sensetive Sonic fans rioting over nothing.

And speaking of Zeti, now I still don't know if these guys are still alive, if Zavok has any opinion about him being cloned.
And there's nothing to say about Infinite. He's just there. Half his screentime is going "Hmpf, you're not worth fighting" and the other half is him getting his ass kicked.

And Iizuka's statement that he wanted people to think about "Why" Shadow was evil becomes a giant facepalm. Of course everyone's crazy theories end up being a million times better then reality, even the sarcastic and cynical ones.
I assume we get to see more of Shadow's thoughts in the DLC because the only insight in Shadow's opinions on the matter we get is "Hmpfh." Even Sonic Boom Shadow is a more complex character then Forces Shadow and my mind boggles what an insane statement that is.

All this talk about that 3d Sonic and Dark Serious Sonic Doesn't work will drive me nuts the coming weeks, this game is neither. It's dull.
Dull Sonic doesn't work. And yeah, well duh.

That said, I don't hate the game too much.
It feels okay to play, like Sonic Boom Fire and Ice. Mostly harmless. Love the music. Level themes are interesting.
The levels have brief moments of fun gameplay.
Far as I'm concerned, it isn't a bad game. It doesn't do anything I hate.
But man, the missed oppurtunities, the wasted potential. That's a giant elephant in the room suffociating this tiny little game that has no chance of even coming close to the impact it should have had.
If we got this game with the story scope of Sonic Colors 2, I'd be praising this game as a fun little but unimpressive side game. But alas, it just had to take the coolest and most epic premise possible and steal that away from other more worthy games to try and pursue. And man, is it pathetic to see it try to aim for the stars when it can't even hop over a pebble.

And are you kidding me that the very first Modern Sonic stage we saw of him in the city is actually from the second half of the game? A level resembling a tutorial stage? Seriously?

[Meta77]

22 minutes ago, Gabz Girl said:

Not only was there a lot of hype/promotion for Infinite and his mysterious origins, but there was also not one but TWO special Infinite logos that appeared in the trailers. These logos...never appeared in the final game. What was even the POINT of those logos then? False marketing?

Oh Sonic Forces...it may not be as disastrous as Sonic 06 but it isn’t a great showing for the hedgehog either, especially for a supposedly 25th Anniversary game. 

Yeah about that, how is it a 25th Anniversary game? Has Sega ever officially stated it as being one? It doesn’t have the Anniversary sticker on the box so...

Wasn't the 25th last year technically

[Meta77]

7 hours ago, Super Mechanio said:

Oil Ocean was not literally an entire ocean. "Ocean" was figurative. The zone took place on Westside Island, which certainly didn't contain an entire ocean's worth of water.

Also, his flying fortresses are very colorful. The Egg Fleet are shaped like cute little fishies! Fish that'll blow you to bits, granted, but fish nonetheless. And let's not forget that his grand space station is just a giant mustachioed Star Wars parody. And yet the Death Egg is still treated as a serious weapon in the series, because it is. It can be goofy and threatening at the same time, much like Eggman himself.

My issue with Forces is that he replaced all his Badniks with boring generic "militarized" models. His world isn't full of bright flashy shows of his ego at all. It's as if Sonic Team sucked out most of Eggman's pizzazz in this game and turned him into more of a generic conqueror without his visual flair and personality. He just comes across as kind of hollow in this game, which sucks, because a game all about Eggman conquering the world should have Eggman at his absolute best.

I meant the fortress from sonic 2 and sonic unleashed both sported military designs no sonic heroes fish. Not everything he builds is cute and if I'm control of the world and want citizens to remain under my thumb a military like ladybug will cause me more fear than a bright red with cute dots ladybug to scare me.  the same eggman that tried to nuke a city and held any at gunpoint