Will you continue to support Modern Sonic if Forces is poorly recieved?

[DoubleXXCross]

So at this point, we're sure, right?

It's no longer if, it's when.

[SuperAj3]

In answer to the question in the OP, I won't stop supporting it, I'll just wait until I see enough gameplay to make my decision.

(I'm probably gonna renege this next game because I always end up buying Sonic games Day 1 LMAO)

[A sonic fan]

we've been through worse.

[DoubleXXCross]

2 hours ago, A sonic fan said:

we've been through worse.

We shouldn't have had to go through worse in the first place and it shouldn't have been resembling worse at any point again.

[Muscles Maximum]

This game has made me really unhappy. As a huge fan of the Adventure games, I get a huge kick out of the grittier, more serious grimdark stories this series has to offer. We haven't had anything like that in such a long time. During the initial teaser trailer I was extremely excited to know the next mainline sonic game we've waited 4 long years for was going to be more like that.

I couldn't even put into words how excited I was. The part when the trailer said "even heroes need help" I swear I thought Tails or Shadow or something was gonna show up and I was ready to freak out, but it was classic Sonic once again. From that moment I knew at best I'll like this game about as much as I did generations, only caring for the boost stages and really only playing through the classic ones for completions sake. Still my hopes were high and I was really happy with the way the tone was seemingly set for the game.

Fast forward the custom avatar character was rumored, I disregarded it and did not for a second believe it was true. That's too ridiculous, even Sonic Team would never stoop so low. They stooped so low.

I'm still really upset because some story bits sound so cool to me. Like Sonic being beaten and needing to be rescued. It'd be a perfect opportunity to play as Knuckles or Shadow or Espio, instead we get to play as some ugly no name "rookie" who doesn't fit in, looks horribly unfun and downright broken at times to play. Plus a neutered classic Sonic who just feels dead wrong to the point of reaching uncanny valley. Let's kidnap Sonic and have a creature and another sonic rescue him. What a great tale. Though maybe it's a blessing in disguise characters I actually like aren't playable because they'd end up a broken mess too.

Modern Sonic looks like he's taken a huge step back. Normally he'd be the icing on the cake for me. Here though the hallways and stiff looking controls are really becoming unbearable. The level design (for every character) is inexcusable. It's awful. 

 I don't care what anyone says about the boost gameplay, whether it's shallow or uninteresting or brainless or whatever, to me (and surely many others) fast paced twitch response gameplay is thrilling. I loved it the moment I first played unleashed, and I probably always will. I'd always go back and try to improve times, I'd even make little challenges like getting as many rings as possible, defeating all enemies, even getting every ring in all the hub levels as fast as I can in unleashed. It's the best. The level design and game feel is really what's killing this game. No backtracking, invisible walls that look like they'll put sonic colors to shame, no drifting, no jumping out of a slide attack, terrible unnatural whiplash acceleration, double jump worse than colors and lost world. There's no fun to be had here.

Still, as bad as it looks I'm still extremely happy there's a mini Shadow story, and he's playable in all of Sonic's levels for no good reason other than it's a neat little extra they threw in (something which should've been standard from the start).

I'm definitely one of the more versatile fans in terms of what I can stomach. I tend to be able to pull at least a little enjoyment out of most games this series puts out, so I'll probably continue supporting in some ways for as long as I can manage. But this game has really brought me down more than any other sonic game ever has before. Sonic team will probably never try and tell a more serious story again after this. I know they'll just go back to sonic laughing at how lame baldy nosehair is. I'll never get exactly what I want. It's just a fantasy. Sonic team isn't capable of telling a story I want anymore. They are trying with this one and it's embarrassing. Down to Infinite's character, the music, the avatar. Just ugh. Maybe I'm just grown up now. Maybe that's the worst part of all. 

In short, I probably will support this game. Really if only for the modding that will inevitably happen down the road. Bringing in some new levels that are maybe less claustrophobic, maybe they'll find a way to import levels from generations or colors or something. That'd be really neat. 

[Eternal EX]

Can we get rid of the current Sonic Team minus the music department and build from scratch?

[Tarnish]

20 hours ago, Strong Guy said:

In short, I probably will support this game. Really if only for the modding that will inevitably happen down the road. Bringing in some new levels that are maybe less claustrophobic, maybe they'll find a way to import levels from generations or colors or something. That'd be really neat.

Not to be rude, but then what was the point of the whole 'rant' if you're gonna support it no matter how much you dislike it?

[Muscles Maximum]

It's one of those things where I'm so invested in the franchise I tend to play the main series games out of this "obligation" I have. Kind of like why I follow dragon ball super.

Also, I think having a Shadow side story and having him playable again finally was a big step for sonic team. Part of me hopes that if I show support now they'll put their colorful cast of characters to good use and have them playable again. Somehow someway. 

There's no way we can control what sonic team does or doesn't do, so the best I can do is show some support when I can, cross my fingers and hope eventually they hand pick certain aspects of games I'd enjoy. I'm just a loser with a soft spot for sonic. Regardless of how I feel about the games, I still get excited to sit down and play a new main series sonic game. 

[DoubleXXCross]

1 hour ago, Strong Guy said:

It's one of those things where I'm so invested in the franchise I tend to play the main series games out of this "obligation" I have. Kind of like why I follow dragon ball super.

That's not scary in the slightest.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

@Strong Guy

If you're this let down, don't you think it's kind of hurting the franchise by rewarding SEGA for putting out a game that disappoints you so much? Aren't you betraying yourself if they didn't make a game you like but then you encourage them to make more like it?

I'll support either Modern or Classic Sonic as long as a different development group can have the opportunity to handle the games after Forces. Regardless of what the current Sonic Team is allowed to do, I'm not interested in their games anymore. Everyone should know by now that they simply don't "get it". Keep them on, fire them, I really don't care. Iizuka and company have squandered the brilliant Sonic IP and run it into the ground.

Just allow an independent group like Whitehead/Thomley and others to have a shot a truly revitalizing the Sonic franchise, in both 2D and 3D. That's what really matters. Find a way to seriously rekindle what made Sonic great, like Mania, and reboot this thing in both 2D and 3D. Mania could be the start of a resurrection if SEGA would just make the common sense move and fully commit to a true revival of the traditional Sonic.

 

[Muscles Maximum]

I mean, I don't just buy every sonic game that pops out. I didn't buy lost world and I have never gotten any of the boom games. I throw lots more support over the games I love and want to see more of. I bought mania on pc and my switch just came in the mail yesterday and I'm gonna buy it again on that. I bought all of the mobile sonic remasters several times, even have gotten a friend or two to get at least one, I bought sonic adventure like 3 or 4 different times for different systems. If (when, I won't kid myself) I get this game, I'll wait for it to go on a steam sale or something. It's definitely not something I plan to pay full price for.

There are things this game's doing that I like. Multiple characters playing a seemingly active role in the story, Shadow playable, uhh that might be it. But that along with getting the game legitimately and I'm looking forward to all the modding that will happen. I can also say with some confidence that I'll probably like this game more than lost world. Yeah, I'm totally okay shelling out a few dollars for this despite my problems with it.

[Eurisko]

I wish people would stop caring about how the media perceives a game or how other people like or don't like it. Make up your own mind and your own opinion on it.

[Rocky And Yipper]

People Think Forces Is BAD,mostly without playing it,but they are like "AUHFHFJDHH MODEM THONIC THUCKTH"

[Badnik Mechanic]

7 hours ago, Rocky And Yipper said:

People Think Forces Is BAD,mostly without playing it,but they are like "AUHFHFJDHH MODEM THONIC THUCKTH"

I've played it.

It sucks.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

Yes. Lost World showed a bit of spark and so did Forces. Sadly, because the game was so unfinished, I don't consider Forces to be a good one. Below average.

Mania just came out a while ago my friends. I won't turn on Spnic that quickly.

[Tornado]

4 hours ago, Mayor D said:

I've played it.

AUHFHFJDHH MODEM THONIC THUCKTH

Fixed that for you there.

[Celestia]

On 10/27/2017 at 3:10 PM, Eternal EX said:

Can we get rid of the current Sonic Team minus the music department and build from scratch?

Hey, that's not fair.

Keep the art / modelling / whatever department too, they generally do fantastic work with the environments.

[DoubleXXCross]

3 hours ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

Yes. Lost World showed a bit of spark and so did Forces. Sadly, because the game was so unfinished, I don't consider Forces to be a good one. Below average.

Mania just came out a while ago my friends. I won't turn on Sonic that quickly.

Mania's a special case of an entirely different company working on a project that's at direct odds with SEGA's current internal design efforts. We have no idea if something similar to it, let alone Mania 2, is ever going to happen again.

[Dr. Mechano]

On 10/27/2017 at 5:06 AM, A sonic fan said:

we've been through worse.

Just because the series has survived worse games doesn't mean it'll be okay forever.

Sonic's sales have dwindled a lot over the past few years. The fanbase is shrinking, and the general gaming public isn't nearly as interested in the franchise as they used to be. Forces failing may not kill the franchise all by itself, but if they keep making failed game after failed game, then eventually the series won't have a financial leg to stand on.

This is a 4-year game with an undoubtedly big budget. Sonic Team is almost certainly going to lose money on this; The question is how much. 

[Osmium]

"We've been through worse" 

Fuck this excuse so much. I guess we should make unremarkable pigshit forever because "we've been through worse". People who say that have given up. 

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

25 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

Just because the series has survived worse games doesn't mean it'll be okay forever.

Sonic's sales have dwindled a lot over the past few years. The fanbase is shrinking, and the general gaming public isn't nearly as interested in the franchise as they used to be. Forces failing may not kill the franchise all by itself, but if they keep making failed game after failed game, then eventually the series won't have a financial leg to stand on.

This is a 4-year game with an undoubtedly big budget. Sonic Team is almost certainly going to lose money on this; The question is how much. 

Isn't Sonic runners a downloadable mobile game that has a price? If so it seems to sell like hot cakes.

I think people are overreacting(per usual I suppose). This won't be close to killing the franchise and I see a ton of positive reception to the gameplay in all fronts. At worst, the game might get 6. But the mainstream is seemingly on board with this game and normally this isn't even close to the case. Because of the Avatar, I feel this gimmick will make Forces loved a whole lot more.

 

Forces seems to have a big budget but with the amount of reused assets, levels, models etc I'm not sure how much money went into it. 

 

[Dr. Mechano]

6 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

But the mainstream is seemingly on board with this game and normally this isn't even close to the case. Because of the Avatar, I feel this gimmick will make Forces loved a whole lot more.

The "mainstream" doesn't really care that a new Sonic game is coming out. It's barely a blip on their radar.

The trailers getting likes and upvotes on Youtube and social media sites from Sonic fans means very little.

I am fairly confident that, like Lost World, this game won't sell a million units.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

Just now, Super Mechanio said:

The "mainstream" doesn't really care that a new Sonic game is coming out. It's barely a blip on their radar.

The trailers getting likes and upvotes on Youtube and social media sites from Sonic fans means very little.

I am fairly confident that, like Lost World, this game won't sell a million units.

I'm predicting it will sell just about 1 million. Honestly, I have this odd faith this game will do well(not that I like it AT ALL).

[Mad Convoy]

4 hours ago, ShroomZed said:

"We've been through worse" 

Fuck this excuse so much. I guess we should make unremarkable pigshit forever because "we've been through worse". People who say that have given up. 

You misunderstand what that argument means and I dislike how snide you come off here (even if that was not your intent).

For one, it is absolutely not saying that things cannot be better. We know the issues with Forces. We would like to see the next Sonic game improve on them. We don't mandate you to like Forces. However, despite the flaws, we either find things to like about the game or we're able to get some perspective on how big of a deal it really is long-term.

Or let me elaborate on the matter. Its more that we've looked at what the game is doing and such and taking some perspective on how much its really going to affect Sonic long term. To do that, we look at what past Sonic games have done and how their screw-ups were received and affected the series. This includes past games such as Sonic 06 and Rise of Lyric, both of which got effectively got similar remarks about how they would end Sonic or there'd be bad games forever. I mean, remember when everybody thought Sonic Boom was a reboot and so going to take away all we love? Didn't pan out at all and neither did Sonic die. The conclusion we came to is that the franchise can and has survived worse, and so Forces does not seem like the game that will end the franchise especially in light of how its been doing positively in the mainstream media in a way people pushing the "everybody hates Forces" narrative aren't acknowledging (Evidence).

I know you are better than that because you have been better than that. Furthermore, I am one of those people that doesn't think Forces will end the franchise. Without even saying my name, you've basically said that I think that we should make unremarkable pigshit forever and that I have given up. You've also said that about any of my friends who also do not believe Forces will end the franchise. And it is extremely hurtful, as well as difficult not to take as a personal attack, because none of those things are true. I praise and criticize parts of Forces because I have faith in the franchise, the Boost formula, Parkour, Sonic's friends, etc. and believe in Sonic's future, because I know that even if it makes me a pariah here I cannot be anything but honest about who I am and what I like and don't like. Because I want Sonic to get better. And so do my friends. We have more in common than you would think, really.

You probably did not intend your post to be hurtful in such a way. After all, you might perceive such statements as "the franchise has survived worse" as dismissive of your concerns, which you have every right to. Rest assured I apologize to you if you have reason to believe I have acted dismissively towards you, and I will make an effort to not be dismissive in the future. However, I do ask that you think it through before you make such broad statements, because they can be hurtful in ways you never considered.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Mad Convoy
EDIT: Got waaaaayyyyy too personal. Sorry guys. :(

[Osmium]

6 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

You misunderstand what that argument means and I dislike how snide you come off here (even if that was not your intent).

For one, it is absolutely not saying that things cannot be better. We know the issues with Forces. We would like to see the next Sonic game improve on them. We don't mandate you to like Forces. However, despite the flaws, we either find things to like about the game or we're able to get some perspective on how big of a deal it really is long-term.

Or let me elaborate on the matter. Its more that we've looked at what the game is doing and such and taking some perspective on how much its really going to affect Sonic long term. To do that, we look at what past Sonic games have done and how their screw-ups were received and affected the series. This includes past games such as Sonic 06 and Rise of Lyric, both of which got effectively got similar remarks about how they would end Sonic or there'd be bad games forever. I mean, remember when everybody thought Sonic Boom was a reboot and so going to take away all we love? Didn't pan out at all and neither did Sonic die. The conclusion we came to is that the franchise can and has survived worse, and so Forces does not seem like the game that will end the franchise especially in light of how its been doing positively in the mainstream media in a way people pushing the "everybody hates Forces" narrative aren't acknowledging (Evidence).

This is a touchy topic for me, I know. My douchebag ex-friend cyberbullied me for having any kind of faith in Boom. He rejected any and all positivity about Boom as blind fanboyism, or naivete, or not up to his standards (can't even count how many times he moved the goalposts for how much views Boom TV should have to be considered successful), or even just wrong and impossible because Rise of Lyric exists. He only briefly let up on it because he apparently actually likes Sonic Boom Dash 2 and so he concluded that it was okay to like Boom if he was the one doing it. Once he forgot about it, he went right back to hating Boom and seemingly having a personal vendetta against Boom fans. Boom was bad because I didn't present enough evidence (even though I did when asked and even unprompted), Boom was bad because I said too much in its defense therefore I had to be desperate. He said all kinds of weak mockeries towards fans, implying that they're dumb and blind and pretty much saying that they are not allowed to call themselves Sonic fans for as long as they like Boom. The scary part was that this was, up until the very end, done subtly-- he'd speak calmly to you as he told you off, present anything he said that went haywire as just innocent jokes or parody or satire, and make it seem like his more overt moments were just occasional flukes and the result of his emotions or mistakes that he'd reassure me he felt bad for. I have emails recording the old comments he made on Facebook that I can PM you to prove all of this. So I hope that I do not come off as too touchy and emotional here.

However, you are coming off exactly as he did when he reached the more overt stage of his controlling and demeaning attitude. I know you are better than that because you have been better than that. Furthermore, I am one of those people that doesn't think Forces will end the franchise. Without even saying my name, you've basically said is that I think that we should make unremarkable pigshit forever and that I have given up. You've also said that about any of my friends who also do not believe Forces will end the franchise. And it is extremely hurtful, as well as difficult not to take as a personal attack, because none of those things are true. I praise and criticize parts of Forces because I have faith in the franchise, the Boost formula, Parkour, Sonic's friends, etc. and believe in Sonic's future, because I know that even if it makes me a pariah here I cannot be anything but honest about who I am and what I like and don't like. Because I want Sonic to get better. And so do my friends. We have more in common than you would think, really.

You probably did not intend your post to be hurtful in such a way. After all, you might perceive such statements as "the franchise has survived worse" as dismissive of your concerns, which you have every right to. Rest assured I apologize to you if you have reason to believe I have acted dismissively towards you, and I will make an effort to not be dismissive in the future. However, I do ask that you think it through before you make such broad statements, because they can be hurtful in ways you never considered.

Nearly every time I've heard "we've been through worse" or "it's not the worst thing ever", it's always by people who have no real argument of why they like it so they go straight to that in vein. And I'm sick and bloody tired of hearing the "it's not the worst thing ever" shit, it honestly seems like a pretty hopeless thing to say every time I hear it, and it's terrible. Maybe I don't want to play games that "aren't the worst thing ever". That's why I say it's something that people that have given up said since it seems that's all they have. 

And I never said Forces would end the franchise so I don't know where that's coming from. I just think it's a shit argument that comes from desperation. If you take me saying it's a shit argument (because it IS) as a personal attack on you and your friends then that's on you. Like whatever you want, do you think I honestly care very much if you like Boom or Forces or not? I just get pissed when I see these phrases thrown around basically as an excuse to fix nothing because "lel could be worse". Maybe not everyone means it like that but that's how I most often see it.