Forces story: what would you like to see.

[knuckles20]

3 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

When people say they want good games, they want games that don't have to rely on nonsensical gimmicks to sell them, and for the game to be consistent in what it sets out to do. This isn't rocket science. 

In that case Forces shouldn't have Classic Sonic at all since Mania exists for the Classic fix and if they wanted other characters playable, why include the create your own crap and a 2nd Sonic when there are a good amount of characters that haven't been used in a decade?

[Indigo Rush]

13 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

In that case Forces shouldn't have Classic Sonic at all since Mania exists for the Classic fix

I have yet to meet an earnest Classic Sonic fan who would dispute this. Almost  no one's happy about Classic Sonic being in Forces.

Classic fans don't want to see the gameplay get butchered, Modern fans don't want attention drawn away from Modern Sonic and their fursona. 

Putting Classic Sonic in Forces was an all around bad move.

We're not happy about it, either. Stop blaming us.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

All I want to see are actual stakes that are communicated as such to the player. It's sad that that's my standard, but the last few games haven't lived up to it. 

[Cornelius Fudge]

4 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

In terms of what I'd want from the story, I'd like something on the scale of Unleashed. Unleashed was the last Sonic story where I actively was engaged and was playing because I wanted to see what would keep happening. It had the right balance of tone. It was still light and fun but had elements of threatening plans, and danger. You had to explore around the entirety of the world and interact with people from different places and it's a level of world-building that hasn't been replicated since Unleashed. It made me actively care about the world. There was an active threat that was treated seriously. I'd like the same kind of thing from Forces. It doesn't need to be all darkness, and gloom and doom, but I actively want some serious balance so I care about the world and characters and actively want to take part in the story.

 I mostly definitely agree. Since Eggman is forcing people into a world that is completely unknown and scary to them, we should most certainly see Sonic and others interact with people across the world and see the emotional turmoil and problems that have emerged for each person/group/race as a result of Eggman's reign of terror. I realize that Sonic is silly in concept, but we have seen works of fiction that are silly in concept yet tell a very convincing story. Zelda, Majora's Mask specifically, is absurdly silly in concept and very far-fetched yet it managed to catch our attention and convey a very compelling world because of your interactions with characters that convey how the ongoing events that the protagonist is trying to stop negatively effect them. It didn't matter if it was a mere dwarf wearing the mask, it was the witnessing the impact of Majora's Mask first-hand on Termina's citizens that engrossed us and Sonic the Hedgehog should certainly do the same in Forces given that Sonic and co. are revisiting areas that they've seen previously. Unleashed was definitely the strongest in terms of story because of this and Forces can potentially be very strong as well if they do develop the characters and the world that we're visiting in Forces.

[knuckles20]

23 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

I have yet to meet an earnest Classic Sonic fan who would dispute this. Almost  no one's happy about Classic Sonic being in Forces.

Classic fans don't want to see the gameplay get butchered, Modern fans don't want attention drawn away from Modern Sonic and their fursona. 

Putting Classic Sonic in Forces was an all around bad move.

I know it's a bad move. I know what Classic Sonic's inclusion really is a desparation move to get approval for majority of critics who only love the Genesis era.

With what I'm seeing with Forces I'm really concerned about future of "3D Sonic games":

I'm afraid that 3D games will no longer be truly 3D games and only gain good ratings because the over reliance of the crutch that is 2D (Unleashed was the last true 3D game to me).

I'm afraid that the extended cast that I grew to love will be forever on the sidelines and the only playable options are Sonic and the OC character.

No offense to people excited for the OC creator. I don't wanna resort to making my own knock off Knuckles or Blaze, I wanna play as actual characters.

I'm worried that Sonic games will be forever stuck in this "Safe, classic baiting, Sonic-only" rut since Colors and I can see this happening if Forces is a success or not.

Because after Generations everything I liked about Sonic was pretty much gone and I don't wanna throw money at Generations 2.

The only thing I can hope for Forces is that the characters: Knuckles, Amy, etc. actually have meaningful roles in the story and not just stand around like helpless children like they did in Generations and Lost World.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I haven't been keeping up enough to know if the story regarding this is known already and to what extent, but I want them to establish (or at least fail to dis-establish) that Sonic's experiences in the classic games are still a part of the past of the "modern" version of Sonic. Even if this particular "Classic Sonic" is from another dimension, I still want "Modern" to have "Classic" in his past. If "Modern" and "Classic" (I REALLY hate referring to them as separate individuals at all, I thought it was stupid even when it was just a fan idea) are truly two entirely separate people from different dimensions and that's it, with any version of "Classic" entirely extricated from "Modern," I don't think I can bring myself to care about future Modern Sonic games. It's just so stupid and such an perversion or even inversion of what I want Sonic's future to be (learning from and incorporating the past) that I can't deal. Having games entirely in the classic style such as Mania is great, but you don't have to do...this.

I know this is one stupidly specific thing, and of course I have other desires for Forces' story...but I'm not invested enough atm to care to think about them.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

2 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

I haven't been keeping up enough to know if the story regarding this is known already and to what extent, but I want them to establish (or at least fail to dis-establish) that Sonic's experiences in the classic games are still a part of the past of the "modern" version of Sonic. Even if this particular "Classic Sonic" is from another dimension, I still want "Modern" to have "Classic" in his past. If "Modern" and "Classic" (I REALLY hate referring to them as separate individuals at all, I thought it was stupid even when it was just a fan idea) are truly two entirely separate people from different dimensions and that's it, with any version of "Classic" entirely extricated from "Modern," I don't think I can bring myself to care about future Modern Sonic games. It's just so stupid and such an perversion or even inversion of what I want Sonic's future to be (learning from and incorporating the past) that I can't deal. Having games entirely in the classic style such as Mania is great, but you don't have to do...this.

I know this is one stupidly specific thing, and of course I have other desires for Forces' story...but I'm not invested enough atm to care to think about them.

I prefer the idea of a retcon. It's just needlessly confusing that there's two Classic Sonics that inhabited levels that somehow looked exactly the same despite being in different dimensions. Imagine trying to explain that to someone who's new to the series. 

This would also allow Classic Sonic to seem more grown-up and unique. 

[Red Hot Jack]

11 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

 

Or maybe, just maybe. People actually like good games. And additionally, and, don't be alarmed...maybe Forces isn't a good game and that could be a reason people don't like it and NOT simply because it's "not Classic Sonic". It's a crazy theory I know, but I think I might be on to something.

The fact that they complain about every non classic non Taxman game pretty much means they whine... a lot. Mania is not the only good game around.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Anyway, back to the actual TOPIC...

I think Classic Sonic being different from Mania Sonic just needs to be made obvious. Just an exchange like

"So he's young me?"

"Yes."

"But a different young me than the other young me."

"Yes."

Might do it. I mean, really the best separation would be having Mania Sonic talk or whatever, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

[Salamander]

I don't think there's really much chance of only Mania Sonic being from an alternative timeline, rather than Classic Sonic in general; that's far too specific and arbitrary to comfortably explain in-game or to the casual consumer.  It's all or nothing; either they've retconned Sonic's classic history away, or they haven't.

Time is another dimension.  That's the point I'm going to keep in mind so I can overlook the sheer vandalism of destroying Sonic's past and future.

[JingleBoy]

7 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

I haven't been keeping up enough to know if the story regarding this is known already and to what extent, but I want them to establish (or at least fail to dis-establish) that Sonic's experiences in the classic games are still a part of the past of the "modern" version of Sonic. Even if this particular "Classic Sonic" is from another dimension, I still want "Modern" to have "Classic" in his past. If "Modern" and "Classic" (I REALLY hate referring to them as separate individuals at all, I thought it was stupid even when it was just a fan idea) are truly two entirely separate people from different dimensions and that's it, with any version of "Classic" entirely extricated from "Modern," I don't think I can bring myself to care about future Modern Sonic games. It's just so stupid and such an perversion or even inversion of what I want Sonic's future to be (learning from and incorporating the past) that I can't deal. Having games entirely in the classic style such as Mania is great, but you don't have to do...this.

I know this is one stupidly specific thing, and of course I have other desires for Forces' story...but I'm not invested enough atm to care to think about them.

ikr

Like, I guess it makes sense...? But it's such a dangerously stupid idea that just brings up even more inconsistencies:

How did modern Sonic meet modern Knuckles? In Adventure, Amy has flashbacks to CD; did that just not happen anymore?

It's like Nintendo making classic Kirby from an alternate dimension than modern Kirby. They wouldn't do that, because they're smart enough not to overcomplicate their franchise.

[Kuzu]

7 hours ago, Chameleon of the Spoilers said:

The fact that they complain about every non classic non Taxman game pretty much means they whine... a lot. Mania is not the only good game around.

If you honestly truly believe this then I don't really know what to say.

Are you 13? Did the past 19 or so years just not happen? 

Name one game in that time span that got anywhere ''near'' the praise and acclaim Mania has gotten :\

[Red Hot Jack]

8 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

If you honestly truly believe this then I don't really know what to say.

Are you 13? Did the past 19 or so years just not happen? 

Name one game in that time span that got anywhere ''near'' the praise and acclaim Mania has gotten :\

Mania's praise means it's the only good game in the series?

[Kuzu]

2 minutes ago, Chameleon of the Spoilers said:

Mania's praise means it's the only good game in the series?

No, it just means that people don't whine as much as you think they do, otherwise we'd be complaining about Mania as well. And yet...

[Roxas]

I'm just excited that we're getting an interesting story concept that originally (???) was only in the comics! I'm a "casual" fan so what I enjoy the most is the story and characters. I don't really care for Classic Sonic gameplay as I never really got into the older Sonic games as a kid. (My first venture had been the Adventure series after all). But I do like Modern Sonic gameplay and am super curious about the Avatar gameplay!

I'm actually worried that the final boss will follow the whole "Defeat Giant World Boss as SSJ Sonic" for the nth time. ( = 3 = ) Can we just have a one on one fight with Hedgehog sized Infinite and kick his glitchy behind old school style? Cause after the last couple modern games - the whole "Eldritch Abomination/Nightmare Fuel/Sephiroth " fight has gotten realllllly old by now. /rant

[Dee Dude]

Why would anyone complain about Mania?

[Kuzu]

1 minute ago, Dee Dude said:

Why would anyone complain about Mania?

That's the point :V

[Red Hot Jack]

6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

No, it just means that people don't whine as much as you think they do, otherwise we'd be complaining about Mania as well. And yet...

I'm gonna tell you something, the reaction to Forces is actually positive, people are genuinely excited about it, critics made good previews, videos on YouTube get high views and lots of likes and nice comments, the general audience likes it, maybe classic fans are not that audience. With this I'm not saying Forces can compete with Mania, obviously not because Mania is so perfect and stuff.

[Mark1]

Story wise what do I want? Something which is good and well written.

Not expecting that from this game sadly (unless they really surprise me with future announcements).

Also, why does every thread about Forces here always turn into a discussion about classic Sonic's appearance in this game?

[Roxas]

I honestly feel that Sonic Forces is less catered towards Classic/Modern fans and more catered to the current demographic + some older fandom desires fulfilled. I mean, at the end of the day no matter what generation a game franchise is made in it always caters towards its core audience - aka the current generation of children. I know I shouldn't make comparisons but, Pokemon is a good example. It's geared towards the current gen just like older fans were once the "current generation". Tho SEGA seems to be balancing the "old fans" and "new fans" a bit better than pokemon is, haha!

[Josef]

Man, there's so much negativity in this thread. I'm not an expert in Sonic lol, I've only played Adventure and Adventure 2, but dudes, don't you find this kind of bitter passion unhealthy? Like, if you don't like how Forces is coming along then why do you spend so much of your life following it and getting more and more angry about it. I don't want to tell you how to live your life, but it just seems unhealthy to me. Why not just contribute yout time to enjoying and supporting Mania if you like the 2D side of things. That'll encourage Sonic Team to make more games like that, since there will be such huge fan support :).

I mean, I'm really looking forward to Forces as just a casual fan who's got back into Sonic and I'm a bit scared to post here lol.

But I will say that I really like the look of this game. The 3D sections look really fast and the 2D sections look nice and simple, not too hard for a noob like me to understand lol. And the Custom Character is cute, making your own custom Sonic.

I just wish I could play as Shadow, that guy was the fucking man in Sonic Adventure 2! I know he's going to be an enemy though, which is pretty cool. And let's not forget the return of Chaos!

[Kuzu]

1 minute ago, Chameleon of the Spoilers said:

I'm gonna tell you something, the reaction to Forces is actually positive, people are genuinely excited about it, critics made good previews, videos on YouTube get high views and lots of likes and nice comments, the general audience likes it, maybe classic fans are not that audience. With this I'm not saying Forces can compete with Mania, obviously not because Mania is so perfect and stuff.

I never said the game was bad, but the reaction is more lukewarm than anything else. It's pretty much the standard reaction to a modern Sonic game, where's really just "It's another Sonic game....yea"  And not every preview has been great.

So I don't really get how Forces is any different from every other 3D Sonic game.

6 minutes ago, Roxas said:

I honestly feel that Sonic Forces is less catered towards Classic/Modern fans and more catered to the current demographic + some older fandom desires fulfilled. I mean, at the end of the day no matter what generation a game franchise is made in it always caters towards its core audience - aka the current generation of children. I know I shouldn't make comparisons but, Pokemon is a good example. It's geared towards the current gen just like older fans were once the "current generation". Tho SEGA seems to be balancing the "old fans" and "new fans" a bit better than pokemon is, haha!

Oh I already know that lol, it's pretty apparent that Modern Sonic games are more geared towards pleasing everyone and anyone than catering to any specific fan. It's just that mindset hasn't exactly helped them and has contributed to the rather hilarious reputation the series as accumulated.

[Roxas]

I agree @Josef ! There's a biiiig difference between being passionate and being downright obsessive. I know people hate hearing this but, if you're so critical and negative about something - then why do you continue reading/watching about it? The thing fandoms need to realize is that they're NOT "entitled" to anything these companies produce. Sega will do what they've done for years, sure maybe they'll listen more to their older fanbase but at the end of the day they don't CARE about how a few people perceive their games. Unless it was something as bad as 06 of course xD

 

Anyway I'm losing track of what I'm trying to say before this rant! 

 

What I'm curious about lore-wise is that, is SILVER CANON?! I thought he initially appeared in Sonic 06 which basically wrote itself outta existence at the end??? So does Silver exist canonly? Or is this more of a "hey, people liked this guy around Blaze, let's throw him in here too!"?

[Red Hot Jack]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I never said the game was bad, but the reaction is more lukewarm than anything else. It's pretty much the standard reaction to a modern Sonic game, where's really just "It's another Sonic game....yea"  And not every preview has been great.

So I don't really get how Forces is any different from every other 3D Sonic game.

And there is nothing wrong with being a normal 3D game, Colors and Generations were successful, so Forces can achieve that if it follows its steps. I remember one critic that said Forces was good but in comparison to Mania it was garbage, probably right but I found that complaint very unfair.

[Kuzu]

7 minutes ago, Josef said:

Man, there's so much negativity in this thread. I'm not an expert in Sonic lol, I've only played Adventure and Adventure 2, but dudes, don't you find this kind of bitter passion unhealthy? Like, if you don't like how Forces is coming along then why do you spend so much of your life following it and getting more and more angry about it. I don't want to tell you how to live your life, but it just seems unhealthy to me. Why not just contribute yout time to enjoying and supporting Mania if you like the 2D side of things. That'll encourage Sonic Team to make more games like that, since there will be such huge fan support :).

I mean, I'm really looking forward to Forces as just a casual fan who's got back into Sonic and I'm a bit scared to post here lol.

But I will say that I really like the look of this game. The 3D sections look really fast and the 2D sections look nice and simple, not too hard for a noob like me to understand lol. And the Custom Character is cute, making your own custom Sonic.

I just wish I could play as Shadow, that guy was the fucking man in Sonic Adventure 2! I know he's going to be an enemy though, which is pretty cool. And let's not forget the return of Chaos!

See, it's easy to say this because like you said, you've been out of the series for a few years. Now imagine being other fans, including myself until recently, who probably didn't care for these types of games but just kept continously holding out hope that Sonic Team would one day "get it" and actually make a game that satisfies them. And then it never came. So bitterness just piles up.