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Forces story: what would you like to see.


Red Hot Jack

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On 8/18/2017 at 0:21 PM, Chameleon of the Spoilers said:

...even though this game makes a lot of choices that pissed off strict classic fans?

 

3 hours ago, knuckles20 said:

They can't be satisfied with Mania? That game isn't good enough for them? Is it too much to ask for a game that isn't blatantly full of classic nostalgia bait. Or for the 3D games to actually be in 3D?

 

3 hours ago, Chameleon of the Spoilers said:

This is kinda what I dislike about classic fans, they get all the attention with nostalgia yet they whine more than other fans. 3D fans should get a better treatment than Forces but it's something.

Or maybe, just maybe. People actually like good games. And additionally, and, don't be alarmed...maybe Forces isn't a good game and that could be a reason people don't like it and NOT simply because it's "not Classic Sonic". It's a crazy theory I know, but I think I might be on to something.

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In terms of what I'd want from the story, I'd like something on the scale of Unleashed. Unleashed was the last Sonic story where I actively was engaged and was playing because I wanted to see what would keep happening. It had the right balance of tone. It was still light and fun but had elements of threatening plans, and danger. You had to explore around the entirety of the world and interact with people from different places and it's a level of world-building that hasn't been replicated since Unleashed. It made me actively care about the world. There was an active threat that was treated seriously. I'd like the same kind of thing from Forces. It doesn't need to be all darkness, and gloom and doom, but I actively want some serious balance so I care about the world and characters and actively want to take part in the story.

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Or maybe people should stop stating they want "good/great" games with no description and actually tell what they want.

Btw, I'm no way in hell defending the Classic argument.

I'm just sick of people saying they want a good Sonic game without explaining specifically what makes a good game to them.

If you just say you want a good Sonic game, then Forces may apply to that.

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15 minutes ago, Dee Dude said:

Or maybe people should stop stating they want "good/great" games with no description and actually tell what they want.

Btw, I'm no way in hell defending the Classic argument.

I'm just sick of people saying they want a good Sonic game without explaining specifically what makes a good game to them.

If you just say you want a good Sonic game, then Forces may apply to that.

I'd just prefer if we could simply wait til the game has released and you know we've actually played it so we can determine actual quality as opposed to claiming that it's objectively good or bad when it hasn't even released yet. 

Like I keep hearing these arguments that "the games beforehand is enough to already call this bad", and yeah, fair enough, I see where people come from. SEGA need to win back their trust and faith, but at this point, it's like saying before release that Mania was going to be an awful game because Sonic 4 and Generations wasn't exactly what we wanted from a Classic game, and yet Mania comes out to be possibly the best Classic game to date. I just want the game to actually come fucking out before these arguments come out because surprisingly, until we play the game, everything apart from the few things we've already seen from trailers is unproven. The part that really frustrates me to no end is that Colours and Generations weren't that bad. And if you dislike the boost formula, alright, that's cool. There's issues with it and it's your subjective opinion. But out and out calling it a objectively bad game because of your own bias against the gameplay style is unfair in my opinion, especially when it's unreleased.

Anyway, back to the actual point, I do want to mention I want Sonic's friends to have an active part here too. Unlike a lot of the fanbase, I like a lot of Sonic's friends and it's saddened me that they were either pushed back entirely or were forced to just praise Sonic while being sidelined. Imagine the roles you could have for these characters in a resistance? Team Chaotix acting as the role of gathering intel on Eggman, Cream perhaps helping with first aid, etc etc. There's a lot of potential in my opinion of placing these characters into a situation they can't just walk out of, and forcing them to work together in order to get somewhere. It reminds me of a fully-SEGA cast Freedom Fighters from Archie Sonic and that always sounded like an awesome idea to me. 

It'd be even cooler if we had like the cast jump into levels at points to help Sonic. Like for example, Sonic comes up to a wall he can't go through so Tails flies Amy in on the tornado so she can directly smash it down. Sonic reaches a ledge he can't reach so Knuckles jumps in and throws him up to it. Sonic finds himself trapped by destroyed buildings, so Silver comes in to lift them up etc etc. Just because they aren't playable doesn't mean they can't have an active role in the story beyond mission control.

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23 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

it's like saying before release that Mania was going to be an awful game because Sonic 4 and Generations wasn't exactly what we wanted from a Classic game, and yet Mania comes out to be possibly the best Classic game to date

I mean, that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense considering Mania had a brand new team of people behind its development who had already proven themselves to some extent, at least enough to gain several fan requests regarding having them handle a potential classic-focused game.

Forces, on the other hand, has the guys behind Lost World and 06 in charge of its development (and it already shows), so I feel like the general lack of confidence is a bit more understandable.

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6 minutes ago, Clewis said:

I mean, that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense considering Mania had a brand new team of people behind its development who had already proven themselves to some extent, at least enough to gain several fan requests regarding having them handle a potential classic-focused game.

Forces, on the other hand, has the guys behind Lost World and 06 in charge of its development (and it already shows), so I feel like the general lack of confidence is a bit more understandable.

Considering the same team that made the original Crash series and Jak series, and went on to become big name developers started out making bland, generic, and shitty games, I'd still like to wait. As I said, I understand lack of confidence, that's fine. But acting like a game that's yet to be released is definitely horrible is where I draw the line. Not to mention Lost World's issues wasn't nearly as bad as 06. If anything, Lost World's issues was the fact it tried far too much to experiment and ended up failing a lot of it. That's likely not going to be as big an issue when it's going back to a previous gameplay style people enjoyed.

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1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Considering the same team that made the original Crash series and Jak series, and went on to become big name developers started out making bland, generic, and shitty games, I'd still like to wait. As I said, I understand lack of confidence, that's fine. But acting like a game that's yet to be released is definitely horrible is where I draw the line. Not to mention Lost World's issues wasn't nearly as bad as 06. If anything, Lost World's issues was the fact it tried far too much to experiment and ended up failing a lot of it. That's likely not going to be as big an issue when it's going back to a previous gameplay style people enjoyed.

Ya know, people do make judgements on games before they come out on whether they want them or not. That's kind of point of previews, it's the same as watching a trailer of a movie and deciding if you're gonna see it or not.

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Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Ya know, people do make judgements on games before they come out on whether they want them or not. That's kind of point of previews, it's the same as watching a trailer of a movie and deciding if you're gonna see it or not.

The point of previews is for you to determine personally what you feel about the game as they try to sell it to you. I said objectively calling it bad, not subjectively.

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Then say what you want then, don't just say you want good Sonic games cause that'll imply you'll like anything as long as its good.

And for crying out loud, cut Forces' gameplay some slack already, atleast they aren't completely different genres like the Adventures where they had shooting, hunting, fishing etc.

Modern, Classic, and Avatar are all speed and platforming aren't they? I don't see where you're getting "gimmicks" aside from the gadgets which are minor gameplay features.

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2 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

The point of previews is for you to determine personally what you feel about the game as they try to sell it to you. I said objectively calling it bad, not subjectively.

It's an opinion, opinions can't be objective :V

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1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Ya know, people do make judgements on games before they come out on whether they want them or not. That's kind of point of previews, it's the same as watching a trailer of a movie and deciding if you're gonna see it or not.

Thank you. People defending Forces based on its lacluster showing are so missing the point in this. People are completely justified in writing off Forces if they choose to based on the trailer. Trailers are made to demonstrate a sample of the game and set expectations. This is true across the industry. We've seen multiple trailers including game play so far. That's more than enough to know what to expect from this game.

 

Mind you, I'm one who actually thinks forces will be 'okay' and not terrible. But given the precedent set by Mania and what Sonic can be capable of, 'okay' is rather an embarrassing standard.

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Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

It's an opinion, opinions can't be objective :V

And yet people are using their own personal opinions to say it will objectively be a bad game. People keep saying "I want a good Sonic game". As if it's an objectively bad game and needs to be catered to what they want.

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2 minutes ago, Dee Dude said:

Then say what you want then, don't just say you want good Sonic games cause that'll imply you'll like anything as long as its good.

I'm kind of tired of laying out my wants of this series, and people on this site have seen enough of my rants to know what I want. So...I don't feel like wasting my time, sorry.

2 minutes ago, Dee Dude said:

And for crying out loud, cut Forces' gameplay some slack already, atleast they aren't completely different genres like the Adventures where they had shooting, hunting, fishing etc.

I'm not going to give a game credit for a game not being a broken mess. Would you expect a pat on the back because you took out the garbage? Those are things you're supposed to do.

2 minutes ago, Dee Dude said:

Modern, Classic, and Avatar are all speed and platforming aren't they? I don't see where you're getting "gimmicks" aside from the gadgets which are minor gameplay features.

Classic is a gimmick too. When I say gimmicks, I mean things that are clearly put into the game to attract a customer. But in this case, these gimmicks take up 2/3rds of the whole game rather than being something that simply enhances the main experience.

Imagine playing a game and then one section involves a mini-game. It detracts from the main game, but you don't mind because it takes up a small portion of the overall game before you're back to what you bought it for. Now imagine having to play that same mini-game for 50% of your time. That's what most Modern Sonic games feel like.

 

 

But this getting off topic, I'm not going to turn this into a Classic vs. Modern debate (again) so, either PM me your reply or open another topic, I don't wanna crowd this topic any further.

6 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

And yet people are using their own personal opinions to say it will objectively be a bad game. People keep saying "I want a good Sonic game". As if it's an objectively bad game and needs to be catered to what they want.

This is my last reply I swear...BUT...

If you've been following a series for as long a time as I assume most fans have on this site, you KIND of want your money's worth and therefore content that pleases you. Otherwise, what is the point of following a series that actively denies you what you want?

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3 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

This is my last reply I swear...BUT...

If you've been following a series for as long a time as I assume most fans have on this site, you KIND of want your money's worth and therefore content that pleases you. Otherwise, what is the point of following a series that actively denies you what you want?

Yeah, and a lot of fans want Boost-Gameplay, as do Adventure fans wanting Adventure gameplay. All of them long-time fans of the series. What exactly pushes your wishes above all of the other wishes? Using your own personal bias (Which as I'll say again, I understand where the bias come from) is fine to state why you don't like a game. It is not however a reason to state that the game is objectively good or bad as many have been doing.

And frankly, if you're going to insist on this argument, then you're insisting that others point out the fact that Mania is literally built for long-time Sonic fans who wanted to return to the good ol' days.

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2 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Yeah, and a lot of fans want Boost-Gameplay, as do Adventure fans wanting Adventure gameplay. All of them long-time fans of the series. What exactly pushes your wishes above all of the other wishes? Using your own personal bias (Which as I'll say again, I understand where the bias come from) is fine to state why you don't like a game. It is not however a reason to state that the game is objectively good or bad as many have been doing.

And frankly, if you're going to insist on this argument, then you're insisting that others point out the fact that Mania is literally built for long-time Sonic fans who wanted to return to the good ol' days.

Perhaps those people are only speaking for themselves and not the whole fanbase? The fanbase isn't a hivemind of like-minded individuals, so I have no idea why you're assuming one person's opinion on a game counts for other. Just because I think a game like Forces isn't great doesn't mean other people agree with me, and just because I think Mania is an amazing game doesn't mean other people agree with me either. 

So if somebody voices their opinion on a game, you should understand that it's that person's opinon and not everyone's.

 

 

OK for real, let's cut this out. I'd rather another topic not get locked. 

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>What I want from Forces` story.

Some fun character interactions and an escalating conflict against Eggman cultivating in a satisfying, well-earned conclusion.

 

>What I'm probably going to get from Forces` story.

Plot points that probably go nowhere, nobody but the Avatar and two Sonic's really doing anything of note beyond giving generic exposition, some nonsensical backstory with Infinite and the Avatar, and Eggman being unceremoniously thrown under the bus for Infinite. And a conflict that will pretend like it matters, but lack any of the buildup needed to make it work. 

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I haven't played a Sonic game since the legendary Sonic Adventure days since I just drifted out the series.

I for one am loving Forces. I wasn't really interested in Mania since it's a 2D game and I don't really care for 2D, but I've always liked 3D Sonic back when I had Dreamcast. But even better, this looks to be the first real throwback to Adventure in a long time. Cool theme songs again, a darker story and finally, the glorious return of Chaos! I love Chaos so much (I bet you can tell from my profile pic lol.

I'm just so excited for Forces. All aboard the hype train, Mania was great and now Forces is also going to be epic :D .Especially since it's basically Generations 2 and everyone says Generations was great. I haven't played it myself but I looked it up on Youtube and it looks SWEET.

2017 is the year of greatness for our favourite blue hedgehog!

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Its equally annoying to me that many people pretend that we cannot have objective evaluation standards in gaming. 

Many stylistic elements can only be evaluated subjectively but there are also objective production standards to which we can compare to things like Forces. 

For example: if one happens to not like 2D side scrolling gameplay, they can do so without concluding that the game is bad because they don't like it------if the game is constructed well. Meaning the basic game mechanics are consistent throughout and work as smoothly as intended, the sound and graphical quality is tested and works, etc. These are objective measures.

 

We can evaluate Forces, and even Modern Sonic as a whole by these standards and say when things are bad based on criteria like these, and it be perfectly astute. 

Pretending that every game element is good because someone likes it, is very bad evaluation. This is a farce perpetuated to defend bad games because of personal attachments. The state of being happy as a result of enjoying some game element can be a good thing but that element itself may still be objectively bad game production and design.

 

 

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This is supposed to be simple topic about what you would like to see in the story... LOOK WHERE WE ARE lol

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1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Not to mention Lost World's issues wasn't nearly as bad as 06. If anything, Lost World's issues was the fact it tried far too much to experiment and ended up failing a lot of it. That's likely not going to be as big an issue when it's going back to a previous gameplay style people enjoyed.

My reference to Lost World was more so regarding its sub-par level design, especially during its sidescrolling segments. And now with what has been shown off for Forces, not only do I see a return to this style of bland, unimaginative level design, but there's also more over-reliance on 2D segments (a la Colors, another game by Forces' director), and some of the worst enemy placement I've seen in a Sonic game so far. If Forces' director had shown any improvement in this area of game design since Colors, I wouldn't have much of a reason to call him out, but he hasn't, and so I see no reason why the same mistakes won't be made again in this game, even with not having seen much of it at this point.

-------------------------------------

Regarding Forces' plot, I'd really like to see a climax that doesn't involve Sonic predictably going Super so he can ram his head into Eggman/Infinite a few times in order to win. Maybe turn the tables and have Eggman/Infinite successfully harness the emerald's power instead, forcing Sonic and co. to have to figure out a way to take down an enemy that has already entered a Super-state of sorts.

Not an incredibly creative idea, but I have grown to really dislike Super Sonic-related finales at this point. They're boring. Do something interesting with the concept for once.

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Yeah seriously do we really have to go through the fucking semantics game every time we have a topic like this? Jesus Christ. 

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14 hours ago, FFWF said:

I believe this is roughly how it worked for Colours and Generations, yes (with Lost World Pontaff supposedly had more freedom... and a shorter deadline).  Over in Japan, they write a story outline that says something like, "Scene 1, this is what should happen; Scene 2, this is what should happen."  That then gets translated into English and sent to Pontac and Graff in America.  Pontaff then write the scenes, maybe just the dialogue but probably to some extent the action as well, according to the directions in the outline.  That then gets translated back into Japanese and sent back to Sonic Team.  Probably there's a certain amount of back-and-forth and refinement done at that point, too.  For a game with an actual plot told from three perspectives and bags of in-level dialogue, little wonder if it takes ages, as opposed to the old days of "everything gets made in Japan, then localised for the west when it's done."

You might be right, but Nakamura's wording hints at some of the dialogue having been written in Japan. He says, "this time," implying it's being done differently than before. He also says "dialogue is rewritten in English," referring to Pontaff's job. 

Maybe it's a mix of both methods, like an early WWE script. 

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Personally I prefer the edge.

 

But seriously, I'd like to see a plot That involves sonic and company to travel to the four corners of the earth to activate these Angel statues that will release a powerful wind to blow eggman, infinite, and the four horsemen of the apocalypse away for good.

 

...okay really though, I'd like a mostly serious take on the story with a little humor, sonic and company traveling to places on the planet to break eggman's rule on them. Have super sonic take on the final boss but..

With a twist. The final boss defeats supersonic and you have to finish it off as normal Sonic. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.......in the rain..

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