What YOU Think of Sonic Forces

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Sonikko said:

I agree 100% with you. They need to fix the pacing, Colours f*cked that up badly. If they keep 2.5D sections, they should take some notes from the Rush games instead of going the Colours way.

Or... Mania...

Mania is pretty good, it's a more modern example to go by.

[Speedi]

3 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Or... Mania...

Mania is pretty good, it's a more modern example to go by.

We're talking about how to make the boost gameplay as fun and well designed as possible. Mania is obviously going to be a really good Sonic game, but it's designed nothing like a boost game. 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Speedi said:

We're talking about how to make the boost gameplay as fun and well designed as possible. Mania is obviously going to be a really good Sonic game, but it's designed nothing like a boost game. 

It would still be a good example, you'd just need to essentially "stretch" the stages to cater to boosting and of course add a few more places to run.

Some excellent blueprints are still there if reworked.

I personally always felt that boost belonged only in 2D the way the Rush games had it and was never meant for 3D at all.

We had something going with the games from Adventure-06 but they made missteps along the way then canned the whole style altogether.

[JosepHenry]

6 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I'm basically going by the clashing atmospheres of Green Hill and the city locations as well as the scripts we've heard so far, such as between Tails and Eggman, not to mention the, as I've mentioned, "Here comes the clown" music that plays during the Eggman fight calling back to Sonic 4.

It kind of feels like having two canons facing one another and firing at the same time over and over.

So far those are minor things. We need the full game to know that really well. Eggman could get as serious as ever in the game. We don't know! You're really gonna say that Eggman will be just a clown the entire game just because of two lines of him being narcisstic (Which HE is)? He is evil and goofy at the same time! It works! What you expect, out of nowhere he starts getting full serious and bloodthirsty? Eggman is not like that. 

You know what clashes cutsey characters, humor and dark stuff really well too? Mother 3. And that game is really freaking dark.

If you don't think that humor and serious stuff CAN'T work together, I'm sorry for being blunt, but you are totally wrong. 

[Speedi]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

It would still be a good example, you'd just need to essentially "stretch" the stages to cater to boosting and of course add a few more places to run.

Some excellent blueprints are still there if reworked.

I personally always felt that boost belonged only in 2D the way the Rush games had it and was never meant for 3D at all.

We had something going with the games from Adventure-06 but they made missteps along the way then canned the whole style altogether.

Fair points. I actually think there are blueprints for well designed boost levels within the trilogy already. Modern Seaside Hill and Sky Sanctuary are really good steps in the right direction. There's lots of alternate pathways, with a decent balance of speed and platforming. Problem is that the director of the game also directed Colors (which was his only boost game), which is why the level design feels like a step backwards.

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Mello said:

but you are totally wrong. 

My point is you have Eggman and Tails bantering with one another while having his "clownish" Sonic 4 harkening music blaring in your ears during the fight.

I have mentioned how Eggman's theme in Mania is quirky yet intimidating, a proper tune for the man trying to be dictator of the world. Forces does not have that going for it. All we've got is the same "clownish" atmosphere going on that has plagued Eggman since getting bashed by rocks by that tribe in Unleashed.

I'm not saying make Eggman some Freddy psychopath but for the love of whoever you worship at least make him someone I don't groan from having to put up with. Either give him a proper character or proper music at the very least when he's being fought.

[Sonikko]

Mania is the perfect 2D Sonic game. I obviously would like 2D Sonic to be like the classic trilogy, and 3D Sonic to be directly derivative of that formula. I was just discussing how the boost formula could be made better, I still don't think it's the best Sonic can be.

[JosepHenry]

20 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

My point is you have Eggman and Tails bantering with one another while having his "clownish" Sonic 4 harkening music blaring in your ears during the fight.

I have mentioned how Eggman's theme in Mania is quirky yet intimidating, a proper tune for the man trying to be dictator of the world. Forces does not have that going for it. All we've got is the same "clownish" atmosphere going on that has plagued Eggman since getting bashed by rocks by that tribe in Unleashed.

I'm not saying make Eggman some Freddy psychopath but for the love of whoever you worship at least make him someone I don't groan from having to put up with. Either give him a proper character or proper music at the very least when he's being fought.

Eh, still, we didn't saw enough of him, we could have a clownish sounding song for a boss, but then he could have an awesome badass final battle music or theme. Lost World wasn't perfect but when he got serious he really got serious. Yet he was goofy the entire game.

[Chris Knopps]

8 minutes ago, Joseph Mello said:

Eh, still, we didn't saw enough of him, we could have a clownish sounding song for a boss, but then he could have an awesome badass final battle music or theme. Lost World wasn't perfect but when he got serious he really got serious. Yet he was goofy the entire game.

Lost World's plot was as imbalanced in tone as Forces is, though to its credit the music WAS really consistent, both in tone and quality, something else Forces lacks.

I don't want to have to "Force" my way through an entire game just to hear battle music for Eggman that doesn't remind me of S4 though.

[JosepHenry]

7 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Lost World's plot was as imbalanced in tone as Forces is, though to its credit the music WAS really consistent, both in tone and quality, something else Forces lacks.

I don't want to have to "Force" my way through an entire game just to hear battle music for Eggman that doesn't remind me of S4 though.

I blame Classic Sonic for that boss theme. If was with Modern Sonic I'm sure the music would be more menacing and stuff.

 

(AND WHEN I MEAN CLASSIC SONIC I MEAN IT'S MUSIC DIRECTOR THERE HAPPY?)

[Indigo Rush]

1 minute ago, Joseph Mello said:

I blame Classic Sonic for that boss theme. If was with Modern Sonic I'm sure the music would be more menacing and stuff.

No, you blame the sound director for thinking that the presence of Classic Sonic is supposed to warrant the music to sound like garbled chiptunes.

[JosepHenry]

Just now, Indigo Rush said:

No, you blame the sound director for thinking that Classic Sonic is supposed to sound like garbled chiptunes.

That's what I meant.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Joseph Mello said:

I blame Classic Sonic for that boss theme. If was with Modern Sonic I'm sure the music would be more menacing and stuff.

I'll admit, I'm holding out for that as I have similar hopes, but even if that DOES turn out to be the case, why would they want to ruin the Classic Sonic portion of the game more than they already have by adding terrible music into the concoction? Is the reason because they want to do anything possible to make Modern look good?

I'd like to think they wouldn't sabotage Classic for that purpose.

[Indigo Rush]

They're not trying to sabotage anything. They fundamentally do not understand what Classic Sonic's appeal is outside of nostalgia.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Indigo Rush said:

They're not trying to sabotage anything. They fundamentally do not understand what Classic Sonic's appeal is outside of nostalgia.

Iizuka has been there since Sonic 3 came around, shouldn't HE more than anybody else there in the present day know this?

[JosepHenry]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

I'll admit, I'm holding out for that as I have similar hopes, but even if that DOES turn out to be the case, why would they want to ruin the Classic Sonic portion of the game more than they already have by adding terrible music into the concoction? Is the reason because they want to do anything possible to make Modern look good?

I'd like to think they wouldn't sabotage Classic for that purpose.

Nah, is just them being dumb as always.

They think that the horrible genesis chiptune can make some blow a load of money thanks to nostalgia. 

What's next Sonic Team? 4:3 screen? Horrible 16 bit filter? More stupid nostalgia?

[ChikaBoing]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Iizuka has been there since Sonic 3 came around, shouldn't HE more than anybody else there in the present day know this?

Sonic Team/Sega (or let's be honest the video game industry in general) is full of George Lucas type of people.

[Indigo Rush]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Iizuka has been there since Sonic 3 came around, shouldn't HE more than anybody else there in the present day know this?

It isn't that simple. Iizuka-san can't solely be blamed for the inconsistent quality; these games are comprised of different directors, producers, designers and the like that all have some form of input. Beyond that, his perspective and the thoughts of other big heads may have evolved over time. 

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Indigo Rush said:

It isn't that simple. Iizuka-san can't solely be blamed for the inconsistent quality; these games are comprised of different directors, producers, designers and the like that all have some form of input. 

But he said he was there to be solely in charge of/responsible for all Sonic games that released post his takeover. He's the one saying yes and no to everything on top of putting his ideas into game form.

Edit

(Even if his ideas have gotten weird over the years ala 69-ing with Tails in S4...)

[ChikaBoing]

The producer has input on all aspects of the game, also sound. There have been instances where composers going by a particular theme "the producer/director requested this type of song for that particular situation"...

[Indigo Rush]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

But he said he was there to be solely in charge of/responsible for all Sonic games that released post his takeover. He's the one saying yes and no to everything on top of putting his ideas into game form.

Yes, he ultimately has the final word. But he also delegates responsibilities to others. And, as I said before, his perspective on certain aspects of Sonic may have changed. Maybe he's trying to reform what Classic Sonic is. I don't know what he's thinking, I'm not in a position to know, and neither are you.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Indigo Rush said:

Yes, he ultimately has the final word. But he also delegates responsibilities to others. And, of course, as I said before, his perspective on certain aspects of Sonic may have changed. Maybe he's trying to reform what Classic Sonic is. I don't know what he's thinking, I'm not in a position to know, and neither are you.

I never said I was so I'm not sure where that last sentence came from.

As far as him trying to reform what Classic Sonic is, that makes no sense considering his involvement with Mania now.

[Indigo Rush]

It means neither of us actually know what his intentions actually are, and speculation on the matter can only go so deep. 

3 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

As far as him trying to reform what Classic Sonic is, that makes no sense considering his involvement with Mania now.

I offered it as a possible intention of his.

Again, I have no way of knowing why he seems to agree with everything Mania is doing, as well as with what Forces is doing.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Indigo Rush said:

It means neither of us actually know what his intentions actually are, and speculation on the matter can only go so deep. 

I offered it as a possible intention of his.

Again, I have no way of knowing why he seems to agree with everything Mania is doing, as well as with what Forces is doing.

Mania is why I say he's not trying to "reform" Classic Sonic since all evidence points towards what Classic Sonic already was being perfect/ideal thanks to Mania.

It could be that Forces is him trying to recapture his years from the Adventure games while still trying to maintain this "kiddie" type of franchise he created from Colors to now.

Though why he would want to maintain the later making the former seem, well, "Forced" back into the status quo is beyond me.

[Indigo Rush]

Well yeah it could be that.

Or just he gave creative control to someone else, just like he gave generous control to PWG, HD, CW and the crew, and is saying "no" to things that he doesn't like.