What YOU Think of Sonic Forces

[Sonikko]

Just now, ChikaBoing said:

Really. Shareholders dont care about Classic Physics. They just want more games with Sonic on the box

If the shareholders or the higher ups want an action game in the style of God of War because they sell at the time, with Sonic's face on the box, ST has to do it.

[Bobnik]

6 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

You're completely missing the point, Mania isn't just rehashing aesthetics, Mania is taking those original ideas and expanding them perfectly.

Forces is rehashing aesthetics just for nostalgia, that's the difference between the two approaches.

You're missing my point then. I'm saying that under the wrong impression we might see even more of rehashing aesthetics just for nostalgia, if using the same aesthetics will be considered as a positive in Mania. That's why I'm saying that in both situations it still rehashes aesthetics for nostalgia, it's just that one game does it better than the other.

[Sonikko]

Almost nobody considers the returning levels a positive, everyone here would've liked a Mania with all new zones. Everyone suggests a Mania 2 with all new zones, I don't see where you're coming from.

All we're saying is that at least Mania is not screwing remixing the old zones up.

EDIT: It's actually doing pretty well in mixing them up, the second Acts look awesome and completely new, actually. They actually bring new things, they expand on the original concepts.

Forces GHZ just looks like a subpar GHZ clone just with sand on the background, it doesn't even have a function in the actual level.

[ChikaBoing]

Just now, Sonikko said:

If the shareholders or the higher ups want an action game in the style of God of War because they sell at the time, with Sonic's face on the box, ST has to do it.

Nah, I don't think so. Higher-ups can't micro-manage everything Sega does. Creatively, someone not known for Sonic or talking about Sonic at all (Toshihiro Nagoshi), is at top even. Or Yuji Naka even said that he could not immersive himself deeper within games because he was high-up at the end. Not to mention the shareholders operate just on a basic entertainment endavour level at Sega (Sega Sammy Holdings).

I mean when Sonic was new in the early 90's or someone at Sega decides an expensive new endavour then I guess higher-ups have more say...but I say the current status for higher-ups for Sonic..."just keep making Sonics".

[Bobnik]

26 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

Forces GHZ just looks like a subpar GHZ clone just with sand on the background, it doesn't even have a function in the actual level.

1) While I do agree Forces Green Hill doesn't look great (even though I like how Avatar's GHZ looks tbh), I don't see a level layout of GHZ from Sonic 1 in Forces, so I don't understand how is this a "clone", yet act 1 in Mania, that uses level layouts of Act 1 and 2 of GHZ in Sonic 1 isn't a clone.

2) I'm not really looking at the usage of aesthetics at the present. I know Mania looks pretty good even with reused aesthetics. I'm talking more about how the rehashing of said aesthetics can influence future titles. Cuz remember, "sales of Mania might influence the future of the franchise as a whole".

I probably didn't get that last point across in my previous posts, sorry 'bout that.

[Tracker_TD]

Frankly if the Mania aesthetic is kept for another game or two, hell yeah. I'll take vibrant, 32-bit pixel art and animation informed from the SEGA Saturn's 2D muscle and Treasure's expert use of scale and rotation effects, as well as the pop art roots for much of Classic Sonic's JP promo, any day of the week. Especially over something as comparatively drab as Forces.  

[Sonikko]

22 minutes ago, Bobnik said:

1) While I do agree Forces Green Hill doesn't look great (even though I like how Avatar's GHZ looks tbh), I don't see a level layout of GHZ from Sonic 1 in Forces, so I don't understand how is this a "clone", yet act 1 in Mania, that uses level layouts of Act 1 and 2 of GHZ in Sonic 1 isn't a clone.

Forces GHZ takes layouts from Sonic 1 GHZ too and places them out of context and without integrating them well like the original game did. Besides that Mania's Act1 are almost exact recreations, but Act 2s is where the fun is at.

22 minutes ago, Bobnik said:

2) I'm not really looking at the usage of aesthetics at the present. I know Mania looks pretty good even with reused aesthetics. I'm talking more about how the rehashing of said aesthetics can influence future titles. Cuz remember, "sales of Mania might influence the future of the franchise as a whole".

Well, there's no way to vote with our money on that, it's either the whole package or nothing. All we can do is be loud about it, and we are doing that. Besides that, again, Mania isn't just rehashing just aesthetics, those remixed levels are built with a solid foundation, they actually know what they're doing with the source material. It's not just the level theme being reused, the Act 2s are great.

[Tracker_TD]

I'd argue Mania's Act 1s aren't even particularly offensive; it uses chunks of the old layouts sure, but understands how to integrate different aspects without feeling like randomly swapped around bits of level design, as well as still continue to build on them, such as with GHZ's entirely new upper and lower routes. 

Forces GHZ doesn't particularly take any level design from the originals, but it does blow ass. I'll take the Mania one, innit. 

[Chris Knopps]

I gotta say, I really enjoyed getting into that conversation with you @Sonikko.

Days like this really do make me enjoy this place. Even if it was off topic, that was still a pretty great discussion.

Thanks for you time on that debate, really.

[Sonikko]

11 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

I'd argue Mania's Act 1s aren't even particularly offensive; it uses chunks of the old layouts sure, but understands how to integrate different aspects without feeling like randomly swapped around bits of level design, as well as still continue to build on them, such as with GHZ's entirely new upper and lower routes. 

Forces GHZ doesn't particularly take any level design from the originals, but it does blow ass. I'll take the Mania one, innit. 

0:33 is the worst offender, but it has pieces and bits of the old GHZ thrown around and sticked together.

6 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

I gotta say, I really enjoyed getting into that conversation with you @Sonikko.

Days like this really do make me enjoy this place. Even if it was off topic, that was still a pretty great discussion.

Thanks for you time on that debate, really.

Thank you, I really enjoy constructive discussions too. We all have different opinions, but engaging in a discussion and keeping up the pace isn't something everyone is able to do.

Just look at how many times I get called a hater on here .

[Red]

I used to be really excited for it. And I guess I still kind am? But lately my interest in it is waning a little. I'm not the best fan of Sonic Colours and Unleashed Wii style gameplay with linear level design and boring boost hallways devoid of any life whatsoever. And I feel like that's what Forces is turning into. A very watered down version of Colours, just with more 3D bits. Generations was an improvement but the game was just too short and many of the levels were hit and miss.

From Colours and Generations I'm worried Forces will be incredibly short level wise and the 3 different characters + story are meant to pad out the game and make it feel longer than it actually is. Colours only had 1 full act for each level with a bunch of "challenge acts" and Generations had 9 levels but the entire game could be completed within an hour or so.

My interest right now is mainly on the story. Apparently the game got rated 12+ in the UK but the rating was pulled shortly after. This is the first time a Sonic game has gotten a high rating like that for a long time and I'm really curious what warrants it. Especially since the Colours writers are returning and don't have the best track record for serious stories.

I absolutely adore the OC aspect of the game and can't wait to make the famous wolf from his debut trailer! And my own OC's! If nothing else the character maker could be heaps fun with so many different options and accessories!

[Sonikko]

Leaked level list? Where?

[Bobnik]

5 minutes ago, Red said:

From the leaked level list

Hold the phone, this is the first time I've ever heard of this. Are you sure you're not talking about that "leaked" Mania level list that was fake anyway?

 

Anyway, I somewhat changed my stance on this game and am starting be more skeptical about it, mainly because of the amount of negative previews. I still think the game won't be bad (from all games I'd only consider 06 and RoL actually bad games) and that it'll be enjoyable and fun, just that it might be somewhat disappointing compared to Generations. If somehow level design improves further into the game, that'd be great, just that the level design of levels that were shown wasn't good. The overabundance of 2D isn't helping either.

The story is something I look forward the most in this game though, as the premise looks much more interesting than whatever Colors, Generations, Lost World and RoL tried to do. I just hope it doesn't bore and confuse me like 06 did. Or frustrate me like Edgy the Hedgie did. Or go for "hyukhyukhyuk, salads with underwear McNosehair", like Colors did.

[Speedi]

5 hours ago, Red said:

I used to be really excited for it. And I guess I still kind am? But lately my interest in it is waning a little. I'm not the best fan of Sonic Colours and Unleashed Wii style gameplay with linear level design and boring boost hallways devoid of any life whatsoever. And I feel like that's what Forces is turning into. A very watered down version of Colours, just with more 3D bits. Generations was an improvement but the game was just too short and many of the levels were hit and miss.

From Colours and Generations I'm worried Forces will be incredibly short level wise and the 3 different characters + story are meant to pad out the game and make it feel longer than it actually is. Colours only had 1 full act for each level with a bunch of "challenge acts" and Generations had 9 levels but the entire game could be completed within an hour or so.

My interest right now is mainly on the story. Apparently the game got rated 12+ in the UK but the rating was pulled shortly after. This is the first time a Sonic game has gotten a high rating like that for a long time and I'm really curious what warrants it. Especially since the Colours writers are returning and don't have the best track record for serious stories.

I absolutely adore the OC aspect of the game and can't wait to make the famous wolf from his debut trailer! And my own OC's! If nothing else the character maker could be heaps fun with so many different options and accessories!

Level design is it's own argument. But a Sonic game being short shouldn't really be a bad thing, they're literally designed by nature to be games you replay over and over to get faster times or explore the levels some more. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It's been a while since I've made a statement on Forces, so here's what I think of it.

The good.

Yes, there a number of good things I see in the game. Sonic Team's previous experiment with Lost World was awkward, and it looks like they're putting attention to a lot of things that have been asked for. It's not the best thing I've expected (well, not anymore), but given the direction of things before, I'm feeling fond of it. What I like are:

• The potentially darker and intense story
• More characters getting involved, especially the return of characters like Shadow, and to my surprise Chaos
• Decent gameplay at the very least
• Eggman potentially being a threat

The Meh.

That said, there are things that aren't exactly pleasing. Not in the sense that I dislike them, but that I'm mostly indifferent. That being:

• Zavok and possibly the D6 returning (but who knows? I could be surprised and might be fond of them this time around. It happened when they took action in Archie comics World's Unite...as much as I actually hated that story, mind you)
• The Boost gameplay, which while I'm not a fan of I don't rabidly hate it either. Better we have that and many people enjoy it rather than the stuff we had after we practically ditched it in Lost Worlds.
• The Character Creator. I was mixed between putting this in this category or the one below, but honestly and to my surprise, I'm not really that bothered by it as much as I expected. It's not the worst thing to come out of the game, surprisingly. And it won't be that big a detriment.
• Pontac and Graff back to write for the games. Now, as much as I've been critical of how they've applied their flavor to Sonic, I've always came to their defense because they're not really given all that much decision making power when it comes to the story, so it's kinda hard to fault them unless there's some changes to their position of influence that I'm unaware of. Moreso, this'll be the first time to my knowledge where they'll be writing a Sonic game with a darker story like a good chunk of us have been wanting for so long as opposed to the more wackier and less meatier stories we previously had, so upon hearing they're back for this one I say this should be the moment we give them a new chance and see what they do before writing them off. Hopefully they succeed this time, and maybe they won't get as much flak as they did as scapegoats for Sonic Team's previous choice of direction. If they screw up, well...that's obvious as it is, isn't it?

The bad WTF?!

Don't get me wrong, these are things I actually don't like, and find to be a major detriment. But I could be surprised. Regardless, these things are what make me wonder what in the blue holy hell is wrong with Sonic Team and their decisions, and while I'm willing to give them a chance I still question why these were even thought to be a good idea. Namely:

• Infinite -- no seriously, why the fuck is this guy even a thing? They had a lot of things right until they showed this character: Eggman finally conquered the world after who knows how long of trying, and now Sonic and his friends must end his reign. That in itself sold the whole thing for me, and they should have just kept that to expand on. But then they show off this guy, and that gives the impression that Eggman more than likely isn't going to be the central antagonist from beginning to end, implying that Sonic Team want to pull the old tired cliche of a new bad guy upstaging Eggman. Now I could be completely wrong and that this guy either stays loyal to Eggman, or that any attempt at Infinite trying to usurp the bad guy position backfires and Eggman comes out on top should any double cross take place like they've been doing recently with Time Eater and the D6. But I'm gonna be a skeptic and not hold my breath here. I'll be super surprised if I like this guy, kinda like how surprised I was to actually like Chip back in Unleashed.
• The Character Creator. Despite what I said in the "Meh" category, this is still a huge "WTF?!" that made me wonder why Sonic Team decided to go with this. No doubt because a lot of people enjoy making their own Sonic fan characters--and ya know what, more power to them. Certainly not something I wanted, but I find it much more bearable compared to Infinite above.
• Shadow and Chaos possibly back as a villain. It's been said before, and I find myself hardpressed to say it again. But really, this makes little sense given what little we know so far. That could change upon seeing the game on release and they show why they're like this, but I'm gonna be cautious about this one.

I'm a little more optimistic as far as the overall picture goes despite the disappointments, but I don't know how I'll actually enjoy the game upon release. Sure Forces does a lot of weird, maybe even dumb things to me and others, but given how many units a Sonic game can sell that's giving a narrow view by looking at a very narrow group just going by fandom reactions. 

Overall, I actually expect this game to fare somewhat decently in the market. Despite what I don't like about it, I want it to do well. Reviews'll more than likely give it average or bad scores, but if Sonic Team's advertising actually does decent, that might not really matter. I can't say the success will give me more faith in the next game tho, but that's something we'll have to see upon release. No doubt the hardcore fans will go back and forth on the whole game, but expect the casual fans who'll predominantly buy the game won't care as much about this by comparison. 

[Chris Knopps]

After looking at some earlier posts, I'd like to say I'm confident SEGA will dump rehashing stages anymore after all the outlash towards doing it in regards to both Mania and Forces.

The reception has been overwhelmingly negative, with Mania's only saving graces being "At least the music makes it worth our time" and "It's better than Forces" basically combined with "At least they're being creative" but besides that, it's more clear than ever consumers do not want to see rehashed stages anymore, thus I feel we don't need to expect them anymore.

Especially with how extraordinarily PANNED the Forces title has been for doing this, and the reviews are going to be downright nasty at best about it despite critics putting up a "friendly" front when in front of developers face-to-face.

[SonicComicFanboy]

 I think the general concept is interesting but as we see more of it I am sadly convinced this will be another Sonic 06 in terms of conviluted story which turns me off.

 

 

[Milo]

So I've been reading quite a few comments made by fans of the Adventure era of games about Infinite and the recent rock tracks, with those saying that they while they liked the "cheese" or "edginess" of such (or similar) elements in the earlier games, there is just something about them in this game that makes them off-putting that they can or cannot explain. Which has been making me think about the broader comments on how the game is trying to mix elements of the Adventure era of games into the Colors era of games, and succeeding at neither.

Mulling over over the production credits and what we've seen from this game so far, I don't think Forces actually is really mixing anything from both eras. I believe Forces actually is just a straight continuation of the Colors-era of games, with all of this supposed Adventure-era elements that has been front and center of the game's presentation and marketing (the bleaker tone and premise, Shadow and Chaos returning, Infinite as a major new villain) just fancy gift-wrapping. They're not actually a major influence on Forces' design or actual direction, they're just some demanded changes made as a way of throwing fans of those games a bone.

Look at the confirmed production credentials we know so far. We have Kishimoto as director, Ohtani as (lead) composer/arranger (he was there from the Adventure era too, but worked under Senoue and with other composers), and Warren (and presumably Graff too) as the writer(s). All three are key leading figures from the production staff for the Colors-era of games.

From the Adventure era? We have...Nakamura as producer? Senone arranging a few tracks and/or scouting talent? That's seems to be it, otherwise. (As for Iizuka himself, while he is a key player in both eras --director/game designer of Adventure era, producer for Colors era-- he seems to have a more limited role in the creation of this game, due to his new supervisory role in SoA; though some interviews still naming him as producer.)

You can also see this with the game's design too. Aside from the obvious return to Boost gameplay (and the new Custom Hero gameplay being derivative of that), there are also lots of 2D gameplay/sections and limited "corridor" 3D sections, as well as several precision platforming elements in the level design. World/level selection maps seem to be returning too, from what we've seen from the demos. Wisps are brought back as boost fodder for Modern Sonic and Wispons for the Custom Hero.

Moreover, despite the realistic destroyed city that is City Heights / Park Avenue, the artstyle has been described by Iizuka himself to still look cartoony--you can see this with how some of the trees are more stylized like Lost World, and the Green Hill level looking more stylized (somewhat like Lost World's Windy Hill) and less realistic than the Green Hill in Generations. While the dialogue we've heard from characters is much more dialed down in self-awareness and jokes from Generations, I think you can still get flashes of it, namely with Tails and Dr. Eggman's banter from the Classic Sonic boss fight. The in-game cutscenes we saw with Infinite (namely the camera staging, the animations, and the lighting effects) are more similar to Lost World, compared to the Adventure era of games too (which I guess could be said are more dynamic / cinematic in comparison? IDK).

Primarily 3D levels/segments? Hubworlds (Adventure 1 / Sonic 2006) or linear story-progression (Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow)? (Photo-)realistic graphics? Existing cast of characters made playable? Genre roulette playstyles? Chao Gardens? None of that is here. I think this also exactly why what is causing the dissonance with Adventure-era games fans with the with Infinite and the rock music for this game so far, though they couldn't exactly pinpoint why they liked it in those games but why they don't like it here.

To top this all off, a cake analogy, because I like food analogies--Forces is a cake that, from its outward appearance, seems to be bathed from top to bottom with chocolate [Adventure-era] frosting and sprinkles on it. But when people take a look at or taste the actual cake covered underneath, it will turn out to be another strawberry [Colors-era] cake, made with the same ingredients and baked by the same chefs.

(As for Classic Sonic? ...he seems to be an afterthought for this game, really; I'd say he is the sole cherry on top of this otherwise non-vanilla [Classic-era] cake. But most classic fans won't bother with it because they're also getting a pure vanilla cake in the form of Mania. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )

[Diogenes]

To me it feels less like they're layering Adventure-like elements over a Modern style core, and more that the Adventure-like elements just don't feel genuine. Like when they were making the Adventures they were thinking in terms of "let's make a new kind of Sonic game", while with Forces they're thinking "let's make a game with things to please Adventure fans", and there's a different feel to imitating a style than there is to creating it and genuinely living in it.

But then maybe that's just due to looking back from my perspective; maybe the Adventure era only felt as genuine as it did because I was younger, more naive, and with different tastes.

[Kuzu]

The way I feel is that all of these different elements feel extremely superficial and phony. It's similar to how I felt with Lost World actually. I remember how much uber hype they put into that game; the parkour, the setting of the Lost Hex, the Deadly Six as new antagonists, Sonic having to team up with Eggman. All of the marketing was geared towards that to make you think the game was trying something different. 

What we actually got was a mechanic that barely worked like it was supposed to, a setting that's basically ripped straight from Mario's aesthetic but none of the interesting quirks associated, AND the setting itself was just straight up unexplained despite the hype that went into it,  antagonists that are so one dimensional and have the laziest traits of villains, and instead of an uneasy alliance between Sonic & Eggman, you get forced drama between Sonic & Tails. In other words, the game felt extremely half-assed. Like they only put forth the bare minimum of effort towards making all of those elements worthwhile and just said "fuck it" halfway through.

 

I get almost the same feeling for Forces, the marketing is damn near similar to Lost World. And they're hyping up all of these elements, but everything about the game's development team just points to it ending up exactly like Lost World. Impressions of the game have ranged from "It's satisfactory" to "This game  misses the mark", and most it is hurled towards the level design, An extremely watered down version of Classic Sonic (which is even more pronounced due to Mania), return to the Boost formula but making no real innovations to it whatsoever. The Avatar is the only thing that seems to warrant a more bigger reaction, and will probably end up determining if the game is worth it or not. Plot elements are a mishmash of different ones from previous games (New, dark antagonist, previous villains coming back etc etc) all backed up by the game being "YOU get to team up with Sonic".

And it just feels so...fake. It feels less like this game is trying to give a little something for everyone, and more like it's desperate for attention from anyone.

[knuckles20]

I was originally on board within the first trailer and my interest started to plummet with more information:

We see burning buildings and giant Eggman robots with are followed by, "IN THE DARKEST OF TIMES" "THE WORLD NEEDS A HERO". So far you think the game will be taken more seriously than recent games that leaned towards comedy without any worthwhile stakes.

Then we cut to Sonic mad as hell as he witnesses the destruction so he runs off to put a stop to the madman's conquest. As he gets closer he dodges a couple of debris but he cannot escape as own overshadows him. Then we get to the line that raised my hype levels "BUT EVEN HEROES NEED HELP". At that point you can't help but think they're finally have the other characters play a big role in the games again, hell they're finally gonna be playable after the last decade has been regressed to Sonic only outings. So who saves him? Tails? Knuckles? Amy? Shadow? Big? Cream? Cream's mom? Well it was the last and I mean LAST person I would expect: Classic Sonic. And whatever excitement I had dropped so fast it tapped into the speed force. But all hope wasn't lost as the trailer ended with "Join the Resistance". Meaning that just because Classic Sonic is in it doesn't mean the other characters will be doormats like they were in Generations. Oh I wish that was the case.

But then we get announcements of:

Boost brought back.

Characters like Amy and the Chaotix not being playable.

Modern switching from 3D to 2D.

Gameplay of Classic Sonic in 2D in the overused, overheyped nostalgia pandering level that is Green Hill Zone.

And it raised questions such as:

Why is Classic Sonic in this when "he" is in Mania? (Hate separating Sonic into two, like that's gonna resolve the Solo character fatigue)

Why is there 2D in this game when Mania is all 2D?

Why can't Modern Sonic be in full 3D when you know Classic Sonic isn't leaving the 2D plane?

Why not have any of the characters be playable than a literal copy of Sonic and a character no one seen before?

I haven't seen the trailer featuring Infinity but it's interesting that there's another "threatening" villain besides Eggman but I'm at the point where I'm more likely to get the Mario+Rabbids game.

I'm tired of Solo-Sonic, the Character creator isn't enough for me to get my other playable characters fix, I have little faith that the other characters are gonna do something other than kiss Sonic's ass, so why should I buy this game knowing I'm gonna be disappointed since the last Sonic game I played I was fed up with him being the only option. Sure there's Mania for Tails and Knuckles but to me it would be me saying to SEGA please keep shoving Classic Pandering out like there's no tomorrow even though  that's all you've been doing since Colors and I'm getting sick of that too.

If anyone is truly excited for those games that's ok. I'm not gonna harp on anyone looking forward to them because this fandom has a real problem with forcing opinions on each other and being on the receiving end for liking Adventure era games, wanting other playable characters and not sucking Classic Sonic's tiny chili dog, I wouldn't want that feeling on anyone.

[Multikaris]

1 hour ago, knuckles20 said:

I was originally on board within the first trailer and my interest started to plummet with more information:

We see burning buildings and giant Eggman robots with are followed by, "IN THE DARKEST OF TIMES" "THE WORLD NEEDS A HERO". So far you think the game will be taken more seriously than recent games that leaned towards comedy without any worthwhile stakes.

Then we cut to Sonic mad as hell as he witnesses the destruction so he runs off to put a stop to the madman's conquest. As he gets closer he dodges a couple of debris but he cannot escape as own overshadows him. Then we get to the line that raised my hype levels "BUT EVEN HEROES NEED HELP". At that point you can't help but think they're finally have the other characters play a big role in the games again, hell they're finally gonna be playable after the last decade has been regressed to Sonic only outings. So who saves him? Tails? Knuckles? Amy? Shadow? Big? Cream? Cream's mom? Well it was the last and I mean LAST person I would expect: Classic Sonic. And whatever excitement I had dropped so fast it tapped into the speed force. But all hope wasn't lost as the trailer ended with "Join the Resistance". Meaning that just because Classic Sonic is in it doesn't mean the other characters will be doormats like they were in Generations. Oh I wish that was the case.

But then we get announcements of:

Boost brought back.

Characters like Amy and the Chaotix not being playable.

Modern switching from 3D to 2D.

Gameplay of Classic Sonic in 2D in the overused, overheyped nostalgia pandering level that is Green Hill Zone.

And it raised questions such as:

Why is Classic Sonic in this when "he" is in Mania? (Hate separating Sonic into two, like that's gonna resolve the Solo character fatigue)

Why is there 2D in this game when Mania is all 2D?

Why can't Modern Sonic be in full 3D when you know Classic Sonic isn't leaving the 2D plane?

Why not have any of the characters be playable than a literal copy of Sonic and a character no one seen before?

I haven't seen the trailer featuring Infinity but it's interesting that there's another "threatening" villain besides Eggman but I'm at the point where I'm more likely to get the Mario+Rabbids game.

I'm tired of Solo-Sonic, the Character creator isn't enough for me to get my other playable characters fix, I have little faith that the other characters are gonna do something other than kiss Sonic's ass, so why should I buy this game knowing I'm gonna be disappointed since the last Sonic game I played I was fed up with him being the only option. Sure there's Mania for Tails and Knuckles but to me it would be me saying to SEGA please keep shoving Classic Pandering out like there's no tomorrow even though  that's all you've been doing since Colors and I'm getting sick of that too.

If anyone is truly excited for those games that's ok. I'm not gonna harp on anyone looking forward to them because this fandom has a real problem with forcing opinions on each other and being on the receiving end for liking Adventure era games, wanting other playable characters and not sucking Classic Sonic's tiny chili dog, I wouldn't want that feeling on anyone.

Well, buying the Mario+Rabbids game seems a bit hypocritical after what you said. 

[knuckles20]

2 hours ago, Miru the Living Planet said:

Well, buying the Mario+Rabbids game seems a bit hypocritical after what you said. 

How so? I know it won't offer me what I like about Adventure 2, Rush, or Unleashed but I'm more interested in that game than what is practically Generations 2

[Multikaris]

22 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

How so? I know it won't offer me what I like about Adventure 2, Rush, or Unleashed but I'm more interested in that game than what is practically Generations 2

Because it is also goofier than Forces looks to be. And it doesn't even seem to use much of the Mario roster.

 

And what do you think of the new characters added starting with Colors?

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

I think Forces is okay, honestly. Its a bit sloppy of an attempt at fan service without having a coherent vision of its own.  But it may be a decent playthrough. Saying it won't be is close to condemning the boost formula games...and while those aren't winning any awards we do generally consider them to be solid experiences for this franchise.

So with that, none of the gameplay styles look particularly inspiring. Modern Sonic most likely will be the most fun again but it has the same issues as usual with automating the experience, removing control from the player at every turn... which is a sin for any platforming game. But again, all the Modern Sonic games do this, going back to the original Sonic Adventure.

The OC gameplay looks similar to Modern but a bit clunkier.

Classic Sonic, from the impressions of people who have played the game, feels better than he did in Generations and even then I thought he was, again, okay. Level design is another issue though.

I don't actually have a huge problem with Forces specifically and don't see it  individually as a tragedy. Its just not an inspiring purchase and if I do get it, it will be for $20 later in the year.

...What I do take issue with, is really just a general criticism of Sonic Team and Modern Sonic. I don't think that 'Okay' is an appropriate standard for a big title release within a mega franchise, especially after four years of development time. Outings like this will just cause Sonic to fade into obscurity when weighed among the number of mediocre to bad outings he's already had in the modern history of the franchise. You can't restore Sonic's reputation this way. These games need to be excellent and consistently so. Sonic Team should have the same level of confidence with the 3D gameplay that the Mania team has with Sonic Mania, especially considering the size difference in budgets and staff. If they don't, its a problem that should be addressed by SEGA immediately, halting production on any other big budget title until they fix the underlying issue.