Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Celestia]

I think character creation is a genuinely fun idea and I'm almost positive Sonic Team sees it that way too, as opposed to trying to appeal to lolfunnysonicfandommemes. It is definitely cashing in on trends, but unlike previous instances of it in this franchise it doesn't feel too jarring to me.

There, I made my case without accusing anyone of being overly emotional. Imagine that.

[goku262002]

3 hours ago, Azoo said:

So, this came a bit earlier than expected.

In a few months, I'll be putting together a video and we'll try bringing it to Gene and Aaron. I cannot leave my position just yet, because it will require cooperation from the fanbase to make this work, but considering I stick to my word, you won't be seeing me very often from this point onward.

Just believe me when I say that I have not forgotten either parts of my promise.

Until then, stay gold. Bang.

^^So context on this? Why is Azoo leaving and whats this about a promise?

[Tracker_TD]

I think the character creator would've made far more sense in a spinoff. As it stands, it just contributes my thought Forces feels incredibly unfocused as I said in an earlier post. 

[Graystripe2000]

37 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

It's probably not for positive reasons.

He said when the ratio is 19K likes against 1K dislikes.

[Celestia]

Just now, goku262002 said:

^^So context on this? Why is Azoo leaving and whats this about a promise?

1) Azoo said he'd leave if the character creation rumour turned out to be real.

2) See this and that post.

[Nepenthe]

Just now, Tracker_TD said:

I think the character creator would've made far more sense in a spinoff. As it stands, it just contributes my thought Forces feels incredibly unfocused as I said in an earlier post. 

This. A spin-off where you can fool around with odd mechanics and setting is fine. Some little online or mobile app where you create your own character and hang out in a virtual world? No problem. I mean hell, Sonic Boom was born for something like this.

As the main feature in a console Sonic game developed by Sonic Team? I have serious questions now. How does this impact lore? How does this impact other characters and their implementation in gameplay and story? Is this going to be a mainstay feature that they're going to try to ramrod down our throat for the next decade, or are they scrapping it regardless of quality? If they're scrapping it, what does that say about how the team internally handles new ideas and game development? How is this going to impact the view of the franchise as a whole in terms of cultural mindshare? 

Remember when people were freaking out about Rise of Lyric because they didn't know how this would impact the franchise's direction if it were successful, and there were fears modern Sonic would be dropped? Yeah, those fears have resurfaced in a specific way. My confidence in the franchise's future insofar as a product I can enjoy is pretty low now.

All I want is a fully 3D Sonic game, that uses only present and established characters, with gameplay that's decidedly "Sonic-y;" whether that's boost or an updated Adventure formula, I don't even care at this point. Just something basic. I don't know why Sonic Team keeps dancing around the bush on this. It's honestly like they're admitting they just can't do it at this point.

[Voyant]

You know what?

To be 100% honest about this. This isn't the worst thing in the world. If anything this is safe.

Call me crazy, but this is yet again Sonic Team playing it safe, that's all this is. The gameplay, the enviormnet, classic sonic being back, 2d sections...

Apart from just soaking in the reaction, when you look at all the cards on the table, this is just a slightly more risky 3D Sonic. Going Xenoverse is absolutely a safe move and this will sell like crazy if it ends up as decent as Generations.

This is funny, but once the reaction wears off...everything is still just booorriinng. 

[Chris Knopps]

5 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

This. A spin-off where you can fool around with odd mechanics and setting is fine. Some little online or mobile app where you create your own character and hang out in a virtual world? No problem. I mean hell, Sonic Boom was born for something like this.

As the main feature in a console Sonic game developed by Sonic Team? I have serious questions now. How does this impact lore? How does this impact other characters and their implementation in gameplay and story? Is this going to be a mainstay feature that they're going to try to ramrod down our throat for the next decade, or are they scrapping it regardless of quality? If they're scrapping it, what does that say about how the team internally handles new ideas and game development? How is this going to impact the view of the franchise as a whole in terms of cultural mindshare? 

Remember when people were freaking out about Rise of Lyric because they didn't know how this would impact the franchise's direction if it were successful, and there were fears modern Sonic would be dropped? Yeah, those fears have resurfaced in a specific way. My confidence in the franchise's future insofar as a product I can enjoy is pretty low now.

All I want is a fully 3D Sonic game, that uses only present and established characters, with gameplay that's decidedly "Sonic-y;" whether that's boost or an updated Adventure formula, I don't even care at this point. Just something basic. I don't know why Sonic Team keeps dancing around the bush on this. It's honestly like they're admitting they just can't do it at this point.

I'd still like to repeat my earlier stance that after Forces there's little question of the franchise going in a heavily 2D focused direction.

[Sonikko]

The best this is going to get is as good as Colours, Generations level of quality is out of discussion imho.

And Colours was not the best of the Boost trilogy, man it had the worst level design and sense of flow imho. It really made no sense with the boost, it gave no thrill to the player, you didn't feel like going fast (which is the point of the boost games).

The OC thing is not a bad thing per-se, even if I don't enjoy it. I think it's out of place in a Sonic game, since the franchise was already a laughing stock for its fan characters and stuff like that. The models look even bad tbh, it doesn't look like you can customize the faces at all, they're all going to look like Generic the Character with a different outfit. Wow, just what the franchise needed.

It's not like the fanbase has been asking for actual physics and slopey level design for 10 years now, no, we all wanted a character creator that will be scrapped for the next game, hopefully.

[Badnik Mechanic]

17 minutes ago, Operationgamer17 said:

He said when the ratio is 19K likes against 1K dislikes.

Well I guess that means Rise of Lyric must be a masterpiece then.

I'm calling this one based on the reaction as a whole. I've not seen much in terms of positive joy to this announcement. 

I have seen a lot of negativity and people just outright taking the piss regarding it.

Vast majority of the comments I've had to review on TSS today certainly fall into the negative. Some of the ones I've not approved are just people posting obseneties at Sega for doing this.

Would not surprise me if this video is gaining  the reaction it is because essentially it's just people looking at it for shere disbelief that Sega actually did it.

I had to watch the trailer multiple times because I was actually convinced it was a hoax from the social media team... It just looked so stupid I thought it had to be a joke I didn't take it all in. 

[Celestia]

2 out of the 3 gameplay clips we have so far are in 2.5D.

We're already in a "heavily 2D-focused direction."

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Celestia said:

2 out of the 3 gameplay clips we have so far are in 2.5D.

We're already in a "heavily 2D-focused direction."

I'm basically talking a purely Mania/S4 direction from here on if Forces does as bad as many are thinking/speculating.

[StaticMania]

The game just might as well be in 2D...focus they're skills.

 

Then they can finally make the actual jump to 3D.

[Nepenthe]

Lol if we lose all semblance of 3D, I will be out, because asking for something similar to a 17 year old game is not an insurmountable task. That's just lazy at that point.

[Stritix]

Well, this is the first time I have absolutely no interest in the latest main series Sonic game. I was even looking forward to Lost World, despite now despising that game. This looks like absolute garbage. When I first saw the trailer on YouTube I genuinely thought it was a fan made trailer with their own ideas as I watched it from a fan channel, but I was wrong. Looks like we're back to the Werehog/Sword days, but this is even more grating and out of place.

The trailer also looks drastically lower budget than the other trailers with far worse looking CGI models. I guess they blew the budget on that car.

[Chris Knopps]

10 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Lol if we lose all semblance of 3D, I will be out, because asking for something similar to a 17 year old game is not an insurmountable task. That's just lazy at that point.

Well, there's no doubt 3D will continue in some form, but likely more of in a direction Sonic 4 and say DKC Returns is going, where you're only going back and forth, but everything in the game, backgrounds, models, and various cinematic moments, take on a 3D focus.

I could go for big budget 2.5D titles like that which result in what Sonic 4 should have been but never was. Imagining a Whitehead programmed title with the 3D expertise of ST sounds like the best of all options to me for the time being.

[StaticMania]

3D platformers are positive and all, but if the meat of the level design is pretty much in the 2D sections and they're so frequent...that's just what it should be.

 

Sonic has problems with actually being a 3D game...these days. But then they can do something else for a 3D Sonic game.

[Sonikko]

I can't make up my mind. I'm so pissed of at this game I can't even put it in words.

It's a new Sonic release, so I want to check all the news, but at this point it's just getting me mad everytime I see something new. I wonder if there's even a point.

It's just that I don't want to skip a Sonic release, I think I have never done that since 2002, it would feel bad to start now. 

Can we do something about it, can we report feedback in an effective way? They can't keep getting it wrong every single time, I don't want to see this franchise die, and I don't want to lose interest in it.

I buy Sonic games because I like the character, the way he moves, the way the environment look, etc.

I don't want to see a generic character on my screen while playing a Sonic game, because that takes away some of my enjoyment, since part of that comes from the appeal the character has.

The fact they don't seem to understand why people even like their games, their own efforts, is saddening.

This is the umpteenth time they've shown they don't know what to do with Sonic in the last 10 years. Just. Pick. A. Direction.

They didn't know what to do about the boost after Generations so they made Lost World, which didn't even feel like a Sonic game. 

The fanbase has been asking for a single thing, for them to build on Generations boost formula, expand it, make it more free and get rid of the scripted sequences. 

One single thing. And they put a friggin OC creator in their game. Tell me why I shouldn't be pissed at them, while the rest of Forces looks mediocre at best.

See this wouldn't be gamebreaking if the game was actually good to begin with.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Sonikko said:

The fanbase has been asking for a single thing, for them to build on Generations boost formula, expand it, make it more free and get rid of the scripted sequencies.

I dunno...

I think the more demanded direction is a Sonic Adventure game play focus for Sonic and co. with a plot direction akin to that, Unleashed and Black Knight.

Sounds like pretty simple feedback to implement to me...

[Kintor]

41 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Because arguments that insist that Sonic needs to be a memetic laughing stock to continue be relevant enrage me. No other franchise that didn't start out comedic, subversive, or satirical has done this to itself.

The Sonic franchise has always been subversive. In the 90s Sonic built his reputation as a celebrity by openly mocking the safe perceptions of what was socially acceptable in a video game. Even when his games didn't gore or foul language he was still the face of the new more pop culture focused gaming industry that emerged as a result. So a  liitle extra attention with a character creator hardly seems out of b place given Sonic's history of subversion. Let people have fun with it and share their creations online, Sonic's reputation will only benefit from it.

[Sonikko]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

I dunno...

I think the more demanded direction is a Sonic Adventure game play focus for Sonic and co. with a plot direction akin to that, Unleashed and Black Knight.

Sounds like pretty simple feedback to implement to me...

They aren't doing that either, except for the plot (maybe), so who have they been listening to?

Besides, I've seen the expanded Generations boost thing many times on this board and on Retro, and it makes a lot of sense. Take what works and build on it, but it would make too much sense for Sonic Team to actually do it. They want to surprise us every time.

[Nepenthe]

Just now, Kintor said:

So a  liitle extra attention with a character creator hardly seems out of b place given Sonic's history of subversion.

Talking out of both sides of your neck. You can't argue that a character creator is subversive while in every other argument praise it because everyone is doing it.

Just now, Kintor said:

Let people have fun with it and share their creations online, Sonic's reputation will only benefit from it.

No it won't.

[Celestia]

I'd rather they just go on hiatus for a bit. Not like what apparently happened here with this game starting development soon after the last one, but like...going on vacation for a while. Maybe stepping in from time to time to have some input on titles such as Mania and spinoffs (remember those? Riders??) at most. And then they come back with a whole new drive and vision. (Which we'd have to wait another few years for, but like...fuck it, we can very easily survive without 3D Sonic if they eventually come out with something good.)

So sorta like what happened between 3&K and SA1.

It'll never happen of course but...it's the sort of thing I think the series needs, and this is from someone who likes most of what they've seen from this game.

I'm actually curious to see where the series goes after this, especially considering this game was probably set in stone when Boom really bombed and SEGA started to rethink things. Was probably a bit late to scrap it, after all.

[Tracker_TD]

4 minutes ago, Celestia said:

(Which we'd have to wait another few years for, but like...fuck it, we can very easily survive without 3D Sonic if they eventually come out with something good.)

Judging from the responses after Mania was unveiled, as people started to consider the idea of no new 3D game being announced, nah. Folks would not last, especially given the gap between Gene- ahem, Lost World and Forces as is. 

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Celestia said:

I'd rather they just go on hiatus for a bit. Not like what apparently happened here with this game starting development soon after the last one, but like...going on vacation for a while. Maybe stepping in from time to time to have some input on titles such as Mania and spinoffs (remember those? Riders??) at most. And then they come back with a whole new drive and vision. (Which we'd have to wait another few years for, but like...fuck it, we can very easily survive without 3D Sonic if they eventually come out with something good.)

So sorta like what happened between 3&K and SA1.

It'll never happen of course but...it's the sort of thing I think the series needs, and this is from someone who likes most of what they've seen from this game.

I'm actually curious to see where the series goes after this, especially considering this game was probably set in stone when Boom really bombed and SEGA started to rethink things. Was probably a b it late to scrap it all, after all.

(SEGA CEO walks into Sonic Team)

"Okay everybody. Forces is out, having a bit of a hard time. All of the staff here working on Sonic, work's going on a hiatus. We're letting the staff in the west carry on with a few Mania related projects to keep the franchise in the market while you go on a trip. We're trying this the old fashioned way, sending the lot of you to different destinations together, tour the world, rack up some new inspiration and get some rest in the process. Mingle with consumers in different territories, find out the tastes. Then we'll bring you back and see what we've got to work with."