Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Chris Knopps]

8 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I fully agree the music change was amazing.  how it starts out low and then when that main rift kicks in. Hearing the characters all egg on Solaris. All those beams. It got your heart pumping. I'm hoping 06 can match that moment. A final battle to retake the world.

The only thing I hated about Solaris Phase 2 was how you were basically fighting the Triforce crest. XD

But yeah, asides the quirky design, really hoping Forces recaptures what Solaris Phase 2 perfected. Perfect Dark Gaia was excellent but there was still something about Solaris that has always kept it as #1 in my book of Final Bosses, probably because in its own way Perfect Dark Gaia felt somehow... Slower paced, despite its cinematic splendor.

Combine what Solaris Phase 2 did with what Perfect Dark Gaia did in Forces and holy sh@t, there will never be another boner of the same kind again.

[FriendBot]

Just now, Blue Blood said:

Sure that one was cool, but it was used for a clone of the Colours Final boss and was unfittingly dramatic for such a lame fight.

I don't think any cares about RoL.

Guess that applies to all the Boom games really.

(Seriously, why didn't you talk about any of these?)

Nah, I agree with with Josh. The only time the orchestral final boss theme world was in '06. In Unleashed it was alright, but Colours version was rather dull in my opinion. Remixing the main theme into something new can work, but I'd much rather something new entirely. Unless that something new is... this. Seriously, that was the climactic final boss of Sonic's 20th Anniversary Celebration? And that was the music they chose to crown it? Piss off.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Time Eater boss theme as well unless the fact some of the cutscene music negates it.

But it was a tongue-in-cheek remark about how Sonic games nowadays don't have their own final boss themes  and instead use an orchestral track for the final boss or atleast the second phase of it.

If anything, I could use a return of the orchestral renditions at this point.  

[Chris Knopps]

3 minutes ago, Soni said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Time Eater boss theme as well unless the fact some of the cutscene music negates it.

But it was a tongue-in-cheek remark about how Sonic games nowadays don't have their own final boss themes  and instead use an orchestral track for the final boss or atleast the second phase of it.

If anything, I could use a return of the orchestral renditions at this point.  

Perfect Dark Gaia almost did it perfectly, but D@#N did some parts of that orchestration blare your ears into bleeding. Some parts were epic while other parts were obnoxious at best.

Solaris Phase 2 did it perfectly the way it mixed rock and orchestration together.

[Wraith]

THe most memorable final boss tracks are the ones that are distinct imo. Nothing tops these.

I think The Adventure games did the main theme well because you don't hear the full theme until the end of the game. The orcestra shit is just boring though. Pass on that.

 

[Chris Knopps]

6 minutes ago, Josh said:

The most memorable final boss tracks are the ones that are distinct imo. Nothing tops these.

I think The Adventure games did the main theme well because you don't hear the full theme until the end of the game. The orcestra shit is just boring though. Pass on that.

 

*orchestra

I just think it's a matter of personal taste/preference at the end of it all. I think Doomsday Zone would have been one of the orchestrated songs you dislike though if the technology was there back in the day, and Wrapped in Black seems very orchestral as well.

Edit

Now if they bring THIS back in a revamped manner...

Ooohhhh yeeeeesssss...

Sonic is fighting for His World again, take down the Eggman Empire bi@$es!!!

[JezMM]

I kind of love all the "final boss versions" of the main themes, and felt they got better with each new game - though it is worth saying the best part of Sonic Colours' is the dramatic part before the loop that is original to the final boss version.

Personally I find most examples of recent original boss music underwhelming.  With Me is an exception but the final boss itself was underwhelming there so the music didn't have the effect it should have.  Dr. Eggman Showdown was good but a real step-down in dramaticness from Colours - but of course the final boss was kind of a poor man's Colours final boss and not particularly dramatic itself anyway.

My only other beef is how unmemorable most of the penultimate boss music is in order to serve as build-up for the main theme remake explosions in the games that use the main theme for the climax.  I'd like to see a reverse situation where a final boss starts out with the main theme remix then goes into something original for the final phase - but that final phase music would need to be DAMN good.  Sonic Adventure really messed this up.  Richard Jacques' Generations remix was fantastic but the original was really dull and just... somehow out of touch with the ethos of SA's gameplay music.  It sounded like cut-scene music from that game, if that makes sense.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

I do like a good Orchestra in final bosses. I mean 06 and Unleashed's final boss music was pretty epic!

But for this though, I hope we get a dang good rock music for the final boss.

[Maxtiis]

In hindsight Unleashed's Pefect Dark Gaia music would have been much better like this:

It's got the traditional vocal music we've come to expect out of 3-D Sonic and it meshes well with the grandiose orchestral version of "Endless Possibility." It's a shame that this had to be a fan cover instead of what officially made it into the game, but what we got was still great. Still, I wish this was more the standard for final boss music in Sonic games; it's so popular that even the harshest of Sonic's critics seem to enjoy it. Sadly I doubt Tomoya Ohtani will take this approach even if Sonic Forces' main theme has a vocal accompaniment.

[JezMM]

The only other important thing for "main theme reprise" final boss themes is that you hear the main theme a LOT in game.  Unleashed screwed this up - Endless Possibility is only featured in the attract demo and end credits, the former of which doesn't even exist on Wii/PS2.  Hard to be a "reprise" or remix when you don't hear the song it's reprising until after the fact.

[Meta77]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

*orchestra

I just think it's a matter of personal taste/preference at the end of it all. I think Doomsday Zone would have been one of the orchestrated songs you dislike though if the technology was there back in the day, and Wrapped in Black seems very orchestral as well.

Edit

Now if they bring THIS back in a revamped manner...

Ooohhhh yeeeeesssss...

Sonic is fighting for His World again, take down the Eggman Empire bi@$es!!!

All of This

The thing about a final boss theme is not lyrics but what has happened to that poi t and going forward.  Solaris phase 1 has a higher than thou type approach. Your fighting a time and space god. It plays as such as he is just some mighty being. Phase 2 is so uprising. It gives you hope but also shows the threat is still present.  You can do this! You have to win this!

Same for perfect dark gaia. Though I always get a more serious vibe from it. I'm not going to let you fight chip and destroy the world again vibe.

[Chris Knopps]

34 minutes ago, Maxtiis said:

In hindsight Unleashed's Pefect Dark Gaia music would have been much better like this:

It's got the traditional vocal music we've come to expect out of 3-D Sonic and it meshes well with the grandiose orchestral version of "Endless Possibility." It's a shame that this had to be a fan cover instead of what officially made it into the game, but what we got was still great. Still, I wish this was more the standard for final boss music in Sonic games; it's so popular that even the harshest of Sonic's critics seem to enjoy it. Sadly I doubt Tomoya Ohtani will take this approach even if Sonic Forces' main theme has a vocal accompaniment.

"My time to shine has come, I feel it!"

I feel like this everyday actually. But that's just me being a smug lil S-O-B. lol

For some reason I always felt Unleashed was meant to be the last Sonic game after what 06 did to the franchise and company as a game developer as well. Kind of like the game meant to take Sonic Team out with a bang, with even the theme of the game giving a "This is it, its been fun everyone!" kind of vibe.

I've always thought of Unleashed as the company's peaking moment with the Sonic franchise, the all-or-nothing title, the game they gave so much to, wore themselves to the bone making, and that's why games since have been developed kind of on an empty tank in a way. Even with heralded games like Colors and Generations this feeling has maintained a constant presence in me.

With any luck, perhaps Forces is the game to show Sonic Team is finally running on a full tank again.

[Waveshocker Sigma]

I'm gonna be honest. I have never liked Solaris Phase 2 or Nega Wisp Armor Phase 2 and simply cannot grasp why everyone just fangasms over them both. They do nothing for me.

I've always preferred their Phase 1 themes significantly over them.

Though, for Unleashed, Super Sonic vs. Perfect Dark Gaia for it right for me. But even then, I like the original version of Endless Possibilities, Falk's "Rockestrate" version and~

the mash-up of the two significantly more than the that. (One small slip-up due to difference in lyrics aside)

But then again, for Colors, I've also never liked Reach For The Stars either. That might have something to do with it. lol

[ChikaBoing]

37 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

"My time to shine has come, I feel it!"

I feel like this everyday actually. But that's just me being a smug lil S-O-B. lol

For some reason I always felt Unleashed was meant to be the last Sonic game after what 06 did to the franchise and company as a game developer as well. Kind of like the game meant to take Sonic Team out with a bang, with even the theme of the game giving a "This is it, its been fun everyone!" kind of vibe.

I've always thought of Unleashed as the company's peaking moment with the Sonic franchise, the all-or-nothing title, the game they gave so much to, wore themselves to the bone making, and that's why games since have been developed kind of on an empty tank in a way. Even with heralded games like Colors and Generations this feeling has maintained a constant presence in me.

With any luck, perhaps Forces is the game to show Sonic Team is finally running on a full tank again.

Unleashed being as high quality in polish and graphic quality is still somewhat of a miracle. It was 2 years after Sonic 06, and Sonic Team was still in the mode of pumping a game out every year, sometimes mutiple ones (Unleashed Wii and Zero Gravity was stil in 08, Black Knight shortly after).

[Chris Knopps]

39 minutes ago, ChikaBoing said:

Unleashed being as high quality in polish and graphic quality is still somewhat of a miracle. It was 2 years after Sonic 06, and Sonic Team was still in the mode of pumping a game out every year, sometimes mutiple ones (Unleashed Wii and Zero Gravity was stil in 08, Black Knight shortly after).

Here's what I think should happen...

Sonic Team of Japan handles main-series 3D titles.

SEGA of America handles main-series 2D titles.

Handheld titles are outsourced to a trusted/reliable company.

Spin-off titles are also outsourced to a trusted/reliable company.

This way nobody is overloaded with work and we can get the most out of the franchise possible.

[RLS Legacy]

Seriously. I still have no idea how they managed to give Unleashed the spit and polish it has. Gorgeous graphics, amazing soundtrack, brilliant level design in many places and relatively glitch free.

It practically oozes with a desire on Sonic Team's part to improve over 06 and show everyone what they could do, to reassure the fans that they hadn't gone completely loopy. And I love it. Still my favourite 3D Sonic game of all time.

[Chris Knopps]

7 minutes ago, RLS Legacy said:

Seriously. I still have no idea how they managed to give Unleashed the spit and polish it has. Gorgeous graphics, amazing soundtrack, brilliant level design in many places and relatively glitch free.

It practically oozes with a desire on Sonic Team's part to improve over 06 and show everyone what they could do, to reassure the fans that they hadn't gone completely loopy. And I love it. Still my favourite 3D Sonic game of all time.

I think... This in itself might be the problem...

It's what they could do. Their best of the best.

Doing that kind of thing for EVERY SINGLE title they release from then on would practically scream bloody murder. Doing THAT much time and time again, I can't picture any staff member, no matter their level of skill, with any hair left on their heads after a title or two.

I think they do try, and very hard at that, but there might be an underlying fear to try AS hard again, because something like Unleashed is a beast you just can't compare to probably.

[JosepHenry]

I'm pretty sure that piano part is going to play in the moment Sonic looks at the city completely destroyed.

I so excited to hear more of the soundtrack.

But the city stage music sounds kinda dull. 

[Shiny Gems]

6 minutes ago, RLS Legacy said:

Seriously. I still have no idea how they managed to give Unleashed the spit and polish it has. Gorgeous graphics, amazing soundtrack, brilliant level design in many places and relatively glitch free.

It practically oozes with a desire on Sonic Team's part to improve over 06 and show everyone what they could do, to reassure the fans that they hadn't gone completely loopy. And I love it. Still my favourite 3D Sonic game of all time.

Agreed. Sonic Unleashed was a great game. The PS360 version mostly. The Werehog stages were good, but the real thrill was at the daytime stages of the game. Those were just fast paced and fun to go through. Overall, it was a great game, and one of my favorites. I hope Sonic Forces is just as much fun as Sonic Unleashed was. Man, I could play Unleashed again right now.

So, in terms of music, if we are still talking about that, I would love to hear a phase 2 final boss music track like how Solaris Phase 2, Perfect Dark Gaia and Egg Nega Wisp Phase 2 were all remixes of the main theme of their respective games. Speaking of the main theme (of Sonic Forces, that is), I wonder how many times the theme is going to play in the game, with cutscenes and all?

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

I'm pretty sure that piano part is going to play in the moment Sonic looks at the city completely destroyed.

I so excited to hear more of the soundtrack.

But the city stage music sounds kinda dull. 

Mmm... I like the music we've heard in that Modern Sonic stage so far. It has the energy, the Sonic-tude, I felt most of Lost World lacked.

...Sonic-tude, yeah... I actually kinda like that.

[JosepHenry]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Mmm... I like the music we've heard in that Modern Sonic stage so far. It has the energy, the Sonic-tude, I felt most of Lost World lacked.

...Sonic-tude, yeah... I actually kinda like that.

Is hard to hear it though.

 

Reminds me of the After/Before The Sequel fangame OST. 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, JosepMelloZSM said:

Is hard to hear it though.

 

Reminds me of the After/Before The Sequel fangame OST. 

It's to be expected that the music for the stage would be hard to hear in a demo full of explosions and countless other forms of action going on. The sounds of the game will likely be tweaked before release so the music is better heard, plus adjusting the music and sounds of the game is a common feature for players to tweak in the options too so it's likely just a matter of what you want to hear most, and in the game play thus far, SEGA likely wanted the sounds emphasized.

[ChikaBoing]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

Here's what I think should happen...

Sonic Team of Japan handles main-series 3D titles.

SEGA of America handles main-series 2D titles.

Handheld titles are outsourced to a trusted/reliable company.

Spin-off titles are also outsourced to a trusted/reliable company.

This way nobody is overloaded with work and we can get the most out of the franchise possible.

They are already are doing it that way tough. Altough it seems like they dont release spin offs and main games at once anymore

[Alienrun]

5 hours ago, Soni said:

Sure I guess?

But...those aren't real sonic games...those are spinoffs!

EDIT: I know Lost World isn't a spinoff by pure technicality, its just that it might as well be since its so different from everything else.

[Alienrun]

2 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

I think... This in itself might be the problem...

It's what they could do. Their best of the best.

Doing that kind of thing for EVERY SINGLE title they release from then on would practically scream bloody murder. Doing THAT much time and time again, I can't picture any staff member, no matter their level of skill, with any hair left on their heads after a title or two.

I think they do try, and very hard at that, but there might be an underlying fear to try AS hard again, because something like Unleashed is a beast you just can't compare to probably.

The solution to this problem is not to release games so often!

[Cyrus]

14 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Did anyone think it'd be anything else? They've been doing the Sound Column on Sonic Channel for months now. 

Oh, I Did Not Know That™