Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Voyant]

10 minutes ago, Auroxen said:

I think it'd even be really cool to have a stage set in a similar place to that Green Hill at the end of the game but at the second visit it's all mechanized like the bad futures, to show that you have little time to stop Eggman or otherwise there'll be nothing to be saved.

I had an idea that if they are going for something like this then the stages would change up in real time. It be a nice twist to see Green Hill slowly get fucked up as you travel to the end of the stage. They could execute it a pseudo-intro stage akin to the start of Unleashed before the real stage began for narrative reasons. 

It would also justify some of the graphical choices though I guess. 

Sadly, I don't think Sonic Team has the talent to make that work nor do I expect it to happen.

[Auroxen]

1 minute ago, Voyant said:

I had an idea that if they are going for something like this then the stages would change up in real time. It be a nice twist to see Green Hill slowly get fucked up as you travel to the end of the stage. They could execute it a pseudo-into stage like at the start of Unleashed before the real stage began for narrative reasons. It would though justify some of the graphical choices though I guess. 

Sadly, I don't think Sonic Team as the talent to make that work nor do I expect it to happen.

That's a really cool idea!

Who knows if they'd know how to pull it off, we've seen some levels in the past that were somewhat dynamic, like the sky passing from day to twilight and then to night, but never to a scale like this I think.

And there's also the fact that Sonic Team seems to never have ideas this cool lol.

[Patron]

5 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Eggman was redeemable before? I think it's more accurate to say, he's just a bit past his breaking point...mentally speaking.

His depiction in Lost World was somewhat interesting. He put himself in danger to save Sonic and Tails and swore to bring hell to the Zeti's doorsteps for draining his homeworld to death. Although the extractor was his creation, he seemed to only take as much as he could without causing permanent damage.

Then again he completely 180s at the end.

[LongcrierCat]

Man, that took a long time but I got through those few dozen pages since the  Nintendo Direct. I'll be honest, I didn't expect this much Discourse ^tm this time around for a new Sonic game and this is fully accepting and admitting that I was one of the people back in 2011 who didn't care for Sonic Generations even though I recognized the game as being a fun one time thing that was acceptable like TMNT: Turtles Forever was when the novelty of seeing Classic Sonic for the first time in years in a game hadn't grown old. I think I saw the seeds being planted for a game like this then but I wanted to think otherwise so I've lightened up to Generations over the years even if I don't consider it a great Sonic game. 

You know, I'll be honest, when I had this game in my mind, the only thing I had in mind was that post by Endri in 2014/2015 on Sonic Retro talking about a new Sonic game that wasn't quite Adventure or Boost or Classic but something that sounded like a fun middle ground that I wanted to see. I want to hope that that's the third gameplay style but what looks more likely is a pretty funny Monster Factory episode by those McElroy boys later on in the year. Dropping that though, I'm disappointed now because I thought this would be better. 

I didn't expect Sonic Generations 2 in all but name. I did honestly think that this was the closest the games were going to get to an Archie Sonic game in the mainline canon after years of having to put it out of my mind since there's apparently legal copyright disputes over the Freedom Fighters (Okay, what? But doesn't Sega as a whole own them? I didn't know Sega was Marvel Entertainment and has copyright issues on who not to use in what material). This after games like Sonic Dash and Sonic Runners? Two games that have a lot more playable characters than Sonic alone? One of those made by Sonic Team themselves? I expected the Resistance^tm to be a playable handful of Sonic's best friends like Tails, Knuckles, and Amy at least. Maybe the Freedom Fighters if we were lucky and as a nice bone to note that they would have seen how well popular fan hacks Sally Acorn and Bunnie Rabbot in Sonic the Hedgehog have done. To have that hope dashed for more Classic Sonic in a year where we're already being treated to a great Classic Sonic game is cheap and demeaning to people who want a different flavour of Sonic, and I say this as a huge fan of Classic Sonic. You're not even doing me favours, Sega. I didn't ask for this, at this point I'd maybe even like you to throw the Sonic Adventure fans a bone and just do Sonic Adventure 3 at this point just because even I would be interested in how that would go now. 

For what it's worth, I'm still interested and like that they've gone with a Robotnik wins scenario since some of the best Sonic stories stem from that idea (but now we get to see it with a much more personal and characterized Egghead than what we got in SatAM and that's just ace, thanks). But I feel like due to them now acknowledging and practically adapting a story that is so very much external material to the games that they're not doing themselves any favours to ignore the characters that came from those original stories or to even have Sonic's best friends playable when he needs all the help he can get now. 

Also, I expected an Eggman World to look more mechanical and "roboticized" if I'll be honest. It would be like playing a Sonic CD 2 except with sci fi dystopia versions of eccentric real world and Sonic places. Actually. Yeah, let's go on that note. Of all the stages we see Classic Sonic running through, it's not Mecha Green Hill Zone from Sonic Chaos? It's not the stage that would both be recognizable to non fans but also paint a picture of what Ivo has done to the world? That feels like a huge wasted opportunity. 

Also, I won't be surprised but I'll be disappointed by the return of Pontac and Graff. And here I thought it would be nice to see Alex Hirsch write a game story after his visit to Sega over a year ago. 

Man, I don't like being negative, but I honestly do want this to be a great game. I've been a fan of a lot of things going on with this blue hedgehog game franchise but it's grown so homogenized and I really want this to branch out and believe in itself again, babe. I don't like tearing into Sonic games. It's not fun and I honestly want a really good 3D Sonic game to contend with Sonic Mania. I'm just tired.  Can we just get Sonic Utopia as a published Sega Sonic game now? 

[Lord-Dreamerz]

I can't remember the last somebody talked about this... But anybody wanna guess how many zones are in this game?

I'm going to guess 10 zones each with 3 acts. 1 act for each gameplay style per zone.

[Blue Blood]

39 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

I can't remember the last somebody talked about this... But anybody wanna guess how many zones are in this game?

I'm going to guess 10 zones each with 3 acts. 1 act for each gameplay style per zone.

Um. How do we even go about guessing the number of levels? We don't even really know how the game is structured yet. 

I would like the game to be longer than Generations for sure. 18 acts + 6 bosses + 1 final boss isn't actually very much. There was of number missions in the game too and Colours and Lost World had those mini/gimmick acts, but few were actually fun. They were blatantly there only to serve as a bit of padding. I can't speak for anyone else, but I never go back to playing any of the padding levels. 

[Patron]

39 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

I can't remember the last somebody talked about this... But anybody wanna guess how many zones are in this game?

I'm going to guess 10 zones each with 3 acts. 1 act for each gameplay style per zone.

They might throw in a few mission levels per zone a la Generations.

[Zippo]

Going from what we know so far, as Amy is confirmed to play a role, Shadow is 99% likely, can we assume the cameo character Hoshino was referring to is Metal Sonic?

[Lord-Dreamerz]

17 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Um. How do we even go about guessing the number of levels? We don't even really know how the game is structured yet. 

I would like the game to be longer than Generations for sure. 18 acts + 6 bosses + 1 final boss isn't actually very much.

I'm just basing it on the idea it'll be similar to Sonic Generations with a extra character/play style added. That may all not end up being right, but it's a pretty safe bet considering the rest of Sonic Forces we've seen has seemed like a Sonic Generations 2 so far.

And I agree the main parts of Sonic Generations was short. And personally I hope each zone in Forces gets a boss fight if not even more. A mini boss at the end of each act and a full boss fight after the end of a zone.

[Bowbowis]

Alright, I'm calling it now. Forces was initially supposed to be about just Modern Sonic and New the Character but then someone higher up mandated that Classic Sonic and Green Hill be in the game.

I mean, it would explain a lot. The reason for the imbalance of two Sonics + friend is because it was originally intended to just be one Sonic + friend. The reason Green Hill Mk. 10,000,000,000,000 still looks like an alpha build, despite Crisis City Mk. 3 looking nearly complete, is because it was a much later addition. The reason the Classic stuff is appearing at all in a game which otherwise looks to be attempting a Adventure era revival is because it was literally tacked on at the last minute.

It just makes sense.

[BubbleButt TV]

2 hours ago, Jango said:

It will open with Classic Sonic doing... Classic Sonic things in his timeline/dimension whatever they wanna call it? He meets with Classic Eggman and they fight. Before the final blow was struck, Eggman tore open a portal in time and flung Sonic into the future, where evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to the past, and undo the future that is EGGMAN.

Y'know what? I get that you were joking, but I've been watching loads of Samurai Jack lately and I honestly feel that kind of comedy would just work so great for Sonic. I mean, at their core Aku and Eggman are pretty similar in their personality and characteristics - they're lovable goofballs who can be seriously threatening when they need to be.

Samurai Jack's visual comedy is great without going too far into extreme slapstick. It's free from those cheesy one-liners that people hated in Pontac & Graff's writing and it allows for serious moments where sometimes characters don't even have to talk to get a point across.

I don't know if Sonic Team (or whoever's writing this game) could ever get to that level of nuanced writing, but oh well.

Just, um, don't take too many lessons from season 5. ?

[JezMM]

19 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

Alright, I'm calling it now. Forces was initially supposed to be about just Modern Sonic and New the Character but then someone higher up mandated that Classic Sonic and Green Hill be in the game.

I mean, it would explain a lot. The reason for the imbalance of two Sonics + friend is because it was originally intended to just be one Sonic + friend. The reason Green Hill Mk. 10,000,000,000,000 still looks like an alpha build, despite Crisis City Mk. 3 looking nearly complete, is because it was a much later addition. The reason the Classic stuff is appearing at all in a game which otherwise looks to be attempting a Adventure era revival is because it was literally tacked on at the last minute.

It just makes sense.

Unlikely, just not how game design works pipeline-wise.  Changing a third of the game so late in development like that would be beyond idiotic, even for Sonic Team.

 

I think we can rest assured that all the idiotic decisions were made early on.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Really if they just don't bother with the new/extra mission content and focus on just making a lot of levels, I'd be good.

I'm still firmly of the belief that a Sonic game doesn't need to be super long, it just needs to be fun enough to replay.

 

And you know, DLC levels should have been a recurring thing for years now.

[Wraith]

Wasn't classic Sonic in Gens already a last minute decision?

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Really if they jus't don't bother with the new/extra mission content and focus on just making a lot of levels, I'd be good.

I'm still firmly of the belief that a Sonic game doesn't need to be super long, it just needs to be fun enough to replay.

 

And you know, DLC levels should have been a recurring thing for years now.

I actually WANT missions to return and become a staple believe it or not. Say what you will they DO add more meat to the game and extend its replayability factor and overall time with the game.

I loved this about Sonic Adventure 2, Unleashed and Generations, especially since you get REWARDS for completing missions, unlike the worthless rank system that you gloat about to your friends just to get laughed at for playing Sonic.

[Voyant]

I would have loved it honestly if this was a 3D inspired Sonic Rush game, your friend was Blaze, and Nega has now joined the two other Eggmen for an extra dose of havoc.

Holy shit... do you guys know how fucking amazing that would have been?

It would have been ABSOLUTELY PERFECT. I'M ACTUALLY UPSET THAT THIS ISN'T WHAT HAPPENED.

[Muscles Maximum]

Man, I've wanted that since Sonic Unleashed first dropped. It's a perfect idea but it's never gonna happen because it makes too much sense

[Wraith]

10 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

 

I loved this about Sonic Adventure 2, Unleashed and Generations, especially since you get REWARDS for completing missions, unlike the worthless rank system that you gloat about to your friends just to get laughed at for playing Sonic.

Couldn't they just reward you for getting higher ranks

The rank system along with quality level design would be more than enough for me because I already like replaying levels over and over to flesh them out in the other games with the system in it.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Josh said:

Couldn't they just reward you for getting higher ranks

The rank system along with quality level design would be more than enough for me because I already like replaying levels over and over to flesh them out in the other games with the system in it.

If all a new Sonic title has, big budget, AAA at least, is the game play itself and some "Get all S and you get this one thing!" system in, that's nothing but a disappointment for me. Same as what Lost World did with "Get all Red Rings and you get Super Sonic cause why not?!" basically. It's nothing short of tediously annoying in every way possible.

If all we have are Ranks and Red Rings then at least put a shop in the game to buy content/moves by using Red Rings as currency. Hidden stages, CGi scenes ala the snippets in Unleashed, etc.

I'm sick of Sonic titles playing the whole "No reward or just one reward" schtick.

In a 2D game like Mania, that's fine to me. The core game play itself is all you really expect along with whatever secret finale. But that's not, and should not, be the case for a AAA 3D title.

[NegaMix]

Dunno if this has been brought up before, but I think I've got an idea as to why we haven't seen anything similar to Eggmanland yet, despite Eggman controlling 99% of the world. I think it's because the city we've seen is actually the 1% of the world that Eggman has yet to conquer, hence the Egg Sentinels attacking. So perhaps the game opens with something like a 'last stand' for Sonic and friends, before Classic Sonic and/or the new guy enter the picture.

[Patron]

7 minutes ago, Josh said:

Couldn't they just reward you for getting higher ranks

The rank system along with quality level design would be more than enough for me because I already like replaying levels over and over to flesh them out in the other games with the system in it.

You'd run into problems in what to incentivize. If you get ranked by speed it's detrimental to exploration. Scoring based on how many percent of collectibles you got might bore some players who are just there for the action. Heroes got around that by letting you play through almost the same level while concentrating on one aspect per run.

[Voyant]

14 minutes ago, Strong Guy said:

Man, I've wanted that since Sonic Unleashed first dropped. It's a perfect idea but it's never gonna happen because it makes too much sense

Imagine how different things would be now if this is what happened in Unleashed.

Sure the Werehog would have never happened, (whether that was a good thing or not will vary), but I'd argue the series and Sonic Team would be at much different place. 

Apart from Tails and Knuckles, Blaze is far more liked than any of the other characters among the general public. Not even Sonic 2006 managed to ruin her image. In fact, I remember specifically people saying she was the most fun Sonic 2006 actually had to offer. 

It makes way too much sense for Sonic Team to execute though. 

[Wraith]

1 minute ago, Patron Night said:

You'd run into problems in what to incentivize. If you get ranked by speed it's detrimental to exploration. Scoring based on how many percent of collectibles you got might bore some players who are just there for the action. Heroes got around that by letting you run through almost the same level while concentrating on one aspect per run.

You'd need to carefully weigh how much factors in equally but ideally there'd be more than one way to accumulate the score necessary to S rank a stage, whether it be by getting there fast enough for your time bonus to make up the difference, or just collecting enough shit in the level and getting there in a timely fashion. 

Who knows what this game will do though?

[Indigo Rush]

8 minutes ago, Josh said:

Who knows what this game will do though?

It has Wisps, so drilling through ground in circles, probably

[Blue Blood]

2 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

It has Wisps, so drilling through ground in circles, probably

I keep forgetting that this game has Wisps because there are so many other things that I dislike about it that it's hard to keep track.