Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Kintor]

3 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

The same Sonic Team that supposedly decided out of nowhere there are 2 main worlds Sonic travels between now. AKA semi-realistic Earth and Sonic's Cartoony World.

To be fair there's been a consistent atlas to Sonic's world. The closest Sonic Team has ever come to this is Sonic Unleashed, with it's areas inspired by real world locations. Beyond that, more areas are just added in each new Sonic game as needed, regardless of whethe they are realistic or cartoony. The current status of Sonic's world as being 2 dimensions instead of just one doesn't make much of a difference as a matter of practicality.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Kintor said:

To be fair there's been a consistent atlas to Sonic's world. The closest Sonic Team has ever come to this is Sonic Unleashed, with it's areas inspired by real world locations. Beyond that, more areas are just added in each new Sonic game as needed, regardless of whethe they are realistic or cartoony. The current status of Sonic's world as being 2 dimensions instead of just one doesn't make much of a difference as a matter of practicality.

Why not just say the Adventure and Unleashed games happened on Little Planet and the rest of the franchise happened on Sonic's world...?

I mean... I feel that would somehow make some bit of sense in comparison to a random "there's two worlds now" thing.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I feel that would somehow make some bit of sense in comparison to a random "there's two worlds now" thing.

There's technically 4 worlds I guess. Kinda Earth. Sonic's World. Little Planet. The Lost Hex.

[Kintor]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

Why not just say the Adventure and Unleashed games happened on Little Planet and the rest of the franchise happened on Sonic's world...?

I mean... I feel that would somehow make some bit of sense in comparison to a random "there's two worlds now" thing.

Works for me. I've always considered Sonic's world (what used to be called Mobius in the West) to be home to many different dimension. Between the special stages, Flicky's Island and the Little Planet etc there's always been plenty of extra dimensions. So having two main worlds instead of one, if that is really what Sonic Team are going for now, isn't anything weirder then what we already had.

[KHCast]

It's not weird. Just stupid and not needed 

[ProfessorZolo]

Huh. I could totally buy into the idea of modern and classic being different dimensions. I mean, even though we KNOW Classic Sonic is from the past, Sonic Team kinda seems to consider time travel and dimension hopping to be one and the same, given their past forays into the subject- the whole kerfuffle about Blaze in particular springs to mind.

 

Also, to give my thoughts on what we've seen of Classic so far? I'm... not particularly miffed about it. I kinda like how the stage geometry seems to be taking more direct cues from the original Green Hill. It's kinda funky, in a way. I mean, yeah, the textures are a little flat and the lighting moreso, and good god, that Chopper bridge thing goes on far too long, but, y'know, I'm optomistic.

[Muscles Maximum]

I have a feeling classic Sonic was just kind of tacked on later in this game's development as a massive crutch so when people inevitably end up hating the new character Sonic Team will at least have the excuse that 2/3's of the game is still good.

They chose to hesitantly bring classic Sonic back since they know with that at least the game would still be mostly a safe winner. Classic Sonic instead of someone like hmmm I don't know maybe Tails. Hate on boost all you want but good lord if they want to keep it around and absolutely must have some other type of gameplay alongside it to pad things out, how is it not common sense to just have Tails coming along for the ride? Doesn't even have to be him all the time. Over the span of the games Tails can sit on the sidelines sometimes to build stuff while Knuckles comes along to do his thing. Maybe have Blaze come around every once in a blue moon to see how Sonic's doing and help him out. Sonic & Shadow saving the world together once again would be awesome. Fucking Espio who spends every moment of free time he has training for action he's never going to see. It's frustrating.

Tails would be safe as fuck and even the most ignorant, hardheaded bandwagoners wouldn't be able to cry out "Sonic's shitty friend", at the very least not with him. Iizuka heard first hand the massive cries of joy when Tails and Knuckles were announced during Mania's debut. That said I guess it's kind of a good thing Sonic Team's finally summoned up at least some courage by giving this new guy, Buddy the Bubsy a chance. Baby steps.

So maybe after this game Sonic Team will stick with boost gameplay for Sonic adding little bits of improvement with each game, slowly but surely figuring out the kinks, learning to make it more versatile, maybe take some cues from the Mania guys and learn from Utopia (which I know for a fact they know exists) and learn to implement some nice momentum based physics, slowly turning Sonic into something anyone can enjoy, and finally, finally include Tails and Knuckles as extra characters for full and wholesome gaming experiences for years to come 

Nah who am I kidding when they see everyone hating on Buddy the Bobcat they'll have relapse and it'll be this same experimental Sonic + some weird ass gimmick for another 18 years.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I think maybe this game in general is a test for whatever Newface the Nurple's gameplay style is. Like, if it's received well, they'll probably try making a full game out of that style. If it's recieved poorly, then oh well, we have the two styles we know at least function properly to fall back on. Really, that's how most ongoing franchises design their mechanics introduced in a sequel, I just hope that the devs haven't been phoning it in on the remaining two styles (which is where I think the "too early to tell" line is drawn, since we've got a collective less-than-a-minute of gameplay from both styles), which can and has happened to other franchise sequels before.

[Kellan]

I didn't even think about until now, but if people end up not liking the mysterious third character, Sonic Team might overreact again. I hope we don't get another decade of (mostly) never having any other playable characters, just because people might not like this one.

Of course, I'm mostly hoping that people do like this new character, but the outlook here is looking pretty pessimistic.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

That's kinda why I almost wish it was a third Sonic, so there would be no way for Sonic Team to misconstrue that as hatred of alternate playable characters.

[ProfessorZolo]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The response to Tails and Knuckles being playable in Mania has been incredibly strong, and I doubt Sonic Team would ignore that, even if this third style turns out to be a complete bum.

 

If anything, it may even convince them to finally reinstate the two as playable alongside Sonic.

 

Fingers crossed, eh?

[StaticMania]

People wouldn't have nearly as pessimistic an outlook if the 3rd was a returning character....like Epsilon or something...

 

Returning Characters: They're safe, in the right way!

 

Of course this would only ever be a problem for a Sonic the Hedgehog game, that wouldn't need to be said for anything else...

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, ProfessorZolo said:

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The response to Tails and Knuckles being playable in Mania has been incredibly strong, and I doubt Sonic Team would ignore that, even if this third style turns out to be a complete bum.

 

If anything, it may even convince them to finally reinstate the two as playable alongside Sonic.

 

Fingers crossed, eh?

Considering it's a Western project and we've no idea what lingering issues the East may have with the West being successful don't expect them to copy the West anytime soon.

The situation MIGHT be different nowadays, but still. When the West was successful in the past the East wholeheartedly LOATHED them for it... I suppose it could be different now...

[ProfessorZolo]

22 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Considering it's a Western project and we've no idea what lingering issues the East may have with the West being successful don't expect them to copy the West anytime soon.

The situation MIGHT be different nowadays, but still. When the West was successful in the past the East wholeheartedly LOATHED them for it... I suppose it could be different now...

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're getting at here? Sega Japan is a far bigger operation than Sega America. They're the ones writing the cheques that fund everything the American branch does, and ultimately it all goes back to Japan.

 

And if you're referring to Sonic Team in particular, didn't Iizuka relocate to America as part of Sonic Team?

[BubbleButt TV]

5 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

one interesting tidbit, and it could just be how they phrased it, but in the Nintendo Direct presentation, it mentioned that this "alternate version of Sonic" is trying to return to his "home world."

Now.... could just be phrasing. It's just about returning ol' younger Sonic back to his time period.

 

But.

 

What if they're doing a yuuuuuge retcon and making it so that Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic... are different universes altogether?

I mean. Would ya put it past 'em at this rate?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. I tried not to put too much thought into it at first, but now that you mention it I can firmly say...

Good grief, no. No thanks. Don't. Please, don't, PLEASE.

I mean, what an absolutely dumb way to split your already fractured fanbase. So soon after they just established classic Sonic as just being the Sonic of the past in Generations, only for them to now go and make them essentially completey different characters.

Classic Sonic would no longer be 'the Sonic from the 2D games who eventually just went on to become modern Sonic as a natural progression' but instead becomes this weird sort of 'what-if' character, completely detatched from this franchise's future. 

This franchise needs cohesion, not segregation.

[The Deleter]

Not really though. At least in that department.

If Classic Sonic is seperated from modern Sonic's canon from now on, that means, rather than having to abide by timeliness rules somehow and fitting games into "slots" between the classics, the Taxman side of Classic Sonic can expand and flourish as a side series without anything holding it back.

And given that opportunity, separating the two could be the best thing that could possibly happen. Modern fans get what they want without being under constant threat of reverting to the classic style for the sake of success, and classic fans (orjustpeoplewhowantfantasticSonicgamesforonce*cough*) can live in a world where their interests take center stage once more on a seperate stage, but now completely original and with unlimited potential.

Segregation is only bad when we're dealing with the main series and it's constant shifting of styles excluding fans on a whim. If actually capitalized upon, this new rule should only give way to inclusion, and possibly even coexistence, so if the biggest problem is yet another "but the moon blew up!" issue with the canon... Lmao, nah. The Sonic series's continuity has been a lost cause since... The gamegear games, I'm pretty sure? No reason to hold back an entire, promising new side of Sonic because of that.

[BubbleButt TV]

Well, Shun Nakamura just uploaded this image to twitter ?

EDIT: lol nevermind, it was only video playback. He was just havin' some top class banter.

[Blue Blood]

Bloody hell. I didn't actually think that Forces would be able to maintain that fidelity on the Switch. Granted it's almost certainly going to run with a lower resolution, lower framerate, limited shaders etc etc, I was actually fairly sure that the footage from the Nintendo Direct wasn't actually the Switch version. From this one blurry picture we have to go by, I'm impressed. 

[The Deleter]

4 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Bloody hell. I didn't actually think that Forces would be able to maintain that fidelity on the Switch. Granted it's almost certainly going to run with a lower resolution, lower framerate, limited shaders etc etc, I was actually fairly sure that the footage from the Nintendo Direct wasn't actually the Switch version. From this one blurry picture we have to go by, I'm impressed. 

It's a joke tweet. He confirms it's video playback in a followup. : P

[Blue Blood]

13 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

It's a joke tweet. He confirms it's video playback in a followup. : P

Aha, there we go. That makes much, much more sense.

With that, I am pretty sure that all of the footage used in the Direct wasn't the Switch version. It's not uncommon for the all of the marketing materials to be based on the "best" version of a game. Hopefully the Switch version is just a visual/performance downgrade and not an entirely different game or missing content. 

[The Deleter]

Eh, I doubt the Switch will have much of an issue with the game. I mean people mention the water as being impressive, but aside from that everything else looks extremely manageable, with the other effects among really cartoony smoke and fire, and rubble being very basic and non-dynamic. Unless we get a completely jaw-dropping stage, with the way the world looking to be very cartoony and basic otherwise, I can't think of any real reason it couldn't run, since it looks to be a pedestrian upgrade from Generations anyway.

The draw distance is a huge improvement over the PS3 and 360 versions of Generations though, gotta admit.

[BubbleButt TV]

23 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Aha, there we go. That makes much, much more sense.

With that, I am pretty sure that all of the footage used in the Direct wasn't the Switch version. It's not uncommon for the all of the marketing materials to be based on the "best" version of a game. Hopefully the Switch version is just a visual/performance downgrade and not an entirely different game or missing content. 

I'm sure the Switch version will just be a minor downgrade. I think SEGA would get done for false advertising if they showed that footage in the Direct only for the final game to be an Unwiished situation ?

[Scar]

3 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Eh, I doubt the Switch will have much of an issue with the game. I mean people go "Look at the water!", but aside from that everything else looks extremely manageable, with the other effects among really cartoony smoke and fire, and rubble being very basic and non-dynamic. Unless we get a completely jaw-dropping stage, with the way the world looking to be very cartoony and basic otherwise, I can't think of any real reason it couldn't run, since it looks to be a pedestrian upgrade from Generations anyway.

Its weird. The city stage looks markedly better than Unleashed, which in turned looked better than Generations. Then came Forces Hill Zone which looks....worse than Generations....somehow.

Man this is depressing. Who in the name of fuck thought a character creator with his own unique gameplay mechanics would be a good idea? Who? I for whatever reason just can't see Sonic Team or Iizuka thinking this shite up. Its ridiculous. Particularly given the....distaste....Iizuka had for the Boom redesigns. Makes. No. Sense.

[JezMM]

To be fair, if push REALLY came to shove, they could just have the switch version display in 720p on TV mode as well as handheld. On PC games at least, I've found resolution has a way huger effect on game performance than turning off individual effects. On my PC in 2010, playing at 720p rather than my monitor's 1080p capabilities was the difference between 60fps and a stuttery 20-30fps on games like Left 4 Dead 2 and BioShock, and allowed me to enjoy all the special effects of highest graphical settings otherwise. Breath of the Wild on Wii U doesn't sacrifice any visual effects from the switch version by running at a lower resolution and it doesn't suffer much at all for it.

7 hours ago, The Deleter said:

The death egg robots being used is more likely a case of reusing assets than a creative decision for the story, imo. I mean we can see several other examples of that already; the trees, flowers, and checkerboard textures look like they were ripped from Generations with some color changes, and the bush found in GHZ is exactly the same as one from SLW, as well.

It's oddly... Lazy on the modelers part, tbh. Have games ever reused assets this heavily and balantly, for non-recurring gameplay items and such?

Honestly the death egg robot reuse doesn't come off as lazy to me at all. It achieves a significant thematic effect. We recognise them right away as Eggman's creation, but there's something more threatening and impersonal about them this time. That gives a distinct flavour that a new robot wouldn't do in the same way. There's nothing wrong with a bit of consistency in the series. I consider this sort of re-use on par with E-100's appearing in Sonic Adventure 2.

[Blue Blood]

 

54 minutes ago, BubbleButt TV said:

I'm sure the Switch version will just be a minor downgrade. I think SEGA would get done for false advertising if they showed that footage in the Direct only for the final game to be an Unwiished situation ?

 

56 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Eh, I doubt the Switch will have much of an issue with the game. I mean people mention the water as being impressive, but aside from that everything else looks extremely manageable, with the other effects among really cartoony smoke and fire, and rubble being very basic and non-dynamic. Unless we get a completely jaw-dropping stage, with the way the world looking to be very cartoony and basic otherwise, I can't think of any real reason it couldn't run, since it looks to be a pedestrian upgrade from Generations anyway.

The draw distance is a huge improvement over the PS3 and 360 versions of Generations though, gotta admit.

Despite several features in Nintendo publications, Unleashed Wii wasn't unveiled for many months after the HD version. I still have a copy of ONM that's filed with Unleashed HD screenshots. It's not an uncommon practice at all. The Switch version won't look as good as the footage we've seen, I'm pretty sure.

9 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Honestly the death egg robot reuse doesn't come off as lazy to me at all. It achieves a significant thematic effect. We recognise them right away as Eggman's creation, but there's something more threatening and impersonal about them this time. That gives a distinct flavour that a new robot wouldn't do in the same way. There's nothing wrong with a bit of consistency in the series. I consider this sort of re-use on par with E-100's appearing in Sonic Adventure 2.

Agreed on this. The Death Egg Robot is one of Eggmans most symbolic machines. He's now going all out written them and doing something he's never done before. He's won. That's some serious shit. And to convey that, they look different. Gone are the goofy faces, replaced by a single eye with a powerful laser. The Choppers in Green Hill have undergone a similar change. They look more like mass production models with glowing eyes, lacking the typical whimsical features of Eggmans typical army. They're still  fish, but not how we're used to seeing them.