Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[StaticMania]

Just now, Nepenthe said:

It's a great idea until you realize the implication that Eggman won against every other character just because Sonic wasn't there.

It's Dragon Ball Super levels of power creep.

I suppose the idea here would be, it's not that Sonic's gotten better...so much better than everyone else. It's that everyone else has gotten so much worse because they don't get to do anything anymore.

[TheLaw34]

Just now, StaticMania said:

I suppose the idea here would be, it's not that Sonic's gotten better...so much better than everyone else. It's that everyone else has gotten so much worse because they don't get to do anything anymore.

In many cartoons there are tons of times where if a single character weren't around the world would be doomed since they heal someone or bring a specific item. Sonic not existing would end the world but the same could be said about tails, shadow, silver, blaze etc

[Nepenthe]

Just now, StaticMania said:

I suppose the idea here would be, it's not that Sonic's gotten better...so much better than everyone else. It's that everyone else has gotten so much worse because they don't get to do anything anymore.

They don't get to do anything anymore because Sega doesn't write them into the conflicts. But I'm taking umbrage with this from an in-universe angle versus a real life one. The idea that Eggman wins because he flings both Sonics to the future (not sure why Classic Sonic would be involved in that since he would have no reason to suspect anything was in trouble) and gets to take over means- from a canon point of view- that no one else, not Tails, not Knuckles, not Shadow, not Omega- could do anything to stop Eggman even if they wanted to. It's a garbage idea without the rest of the cast in play.

[Heckboy]

oh boy

 

[Celestia]

I still can't take the two worlds thing seriously, simply because I'm not even sure how you would go about establishing it at this point. It doesn't even make sense in the context of just the modern games (Unleashed through Lost World). I mean, there's always retcons, but I dunno. I just literally can't imagine it being acknowledged in dialogue.

Someone really needs to ask Iizuka about this, if only because I'm still skeptical that it's actually a thing.

Also even before Unleashed it was often Sonic who saved the day in the end (sometimes singelhandedly, sometimes not), so I could believe removing Sonic from the timeline being enough to mess things up. :V

[TheLaw34]

2 minutes ago, Celestia said:

I still can't take the two worlds thing seriously, simply because I'm not even sure how you would go about establishing it at this point. It doesn't even make sense in the context of just the modern games (Unleashed through Lost World). I mean, there's always retcons, but I dunno. I just literally can't imagine it being acknowledged in dialogue

For me it really doesn't matter if they do a quick vague or silly way to acknowledge it is not nearly as important  as if there is good dialouge and character interactions. I just want the joke to hits and for it to be directed in a way to make me care about what's happening in the story.

[ChikoLad]

4 minutes ago, Sam Sanderson Sandleberger said:

Wait what? are you talking about 2017 or mania? I'm assuming it's the latter. What indication do you have that they are only putting remixed stages as a bonus? I have seen no indication that the game is done and they are just making some extra stuff.  So I assume the extra stages were planned and will into what could have been time for original stages. Although it may not be as much if they are just reusing assets.

If you know how game development works, all games start at a concept stage - they decide what levels will be in the game at this stage. And in a game like Smash Bros for example, every character is decided in this stage most of the time (ironically, Sonic was the first non-clone exception to that rule).

The team developing the game obviously have a set of new stage ideas for the game, and those were decided from the beginning. Otherwise, they wouldn't be here. However, I'm sure the team simply decided to add remixed stages as extra content, maybe even as early as the concept stages. Maybe they thought the game would be too short with just their new stages, and they have no more new stage ideas left for now. So they decide to add remixed stages, extending their projected development time and release window than what it would otherwise be, and giving the game more content than it would normally have.

In this case, the remixed stages aren't cutting into time for new ones. You can only develop stages for the ideas you have. If they only had six original stage ideas (for example), they can only make six original stages, not seven or eight. Adding in remixed stages after that or making the plan to based on the stage count seeming low is not cutting into dev time of more stages because they simply don't have the ideas for them.

It's not the exact same case as Rayman Legends, but it's similar.

[Celestia]

Apparently Taxman said Mania will be longer than Generations. So...take that as you will?

[Betz]

2 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Apparently Taxman said Mania will be longer than Generations. So...take that as you will?

That's good. Generations was lengthy enough for me.

 

[MegasonicZX]

3 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Apparently Taxman said Mania will be longer than Generations. So...take that as you will?

Would that be taking into account all the side missions or just rushing through the main game?

[TheLaw34]

1 minute ago, ChikoLad said:

If you know how game development works, all games start at a concept stage - they decide what levels will be in the game at this stage. And in a game like Smash Bros for example, every character is decided in this stage most of the time (ironically, Sonic was the first non-clone exception to that rule).

The team developing the game obviously have a set of new stage ideas for the game, and those were decided from the beginning. Otherwise, they wouldn't be here. However, I'm sure the team simply decided to add remixed stages as extra content, maybe even as early as the concept stages. Maybe they thought the game would be too short with just their new stages, and they have no more new stage ideas left for now. So they decide to add remixed stages, extending their projected development time and release window than what it would otherwise be, and giving the game more content than it would normally have.

In this case, the remixed stages aren't cutting into time for new ones. You can only develop stages for the ideas you have. If they only had six original stage ideas (for example), they can only make six original stages, not seven or eight. Adding in remixed stages after that or making the plan to based on the stage count seeming low is not cutting into dev time of more stages because they simply don't have the ideas for them.

It's not the exact same case as Rayman Legends, but it's similar.

Okay I guess I read you comment wrong. I thought you were saying that they gave you some reason to believe that this was the case and they didn't choose classic over new stages but I see you are just speculating correct?

Anyway, yes most games have a concept phase but tons of things often change during the actual development so it's never just a linear "hear is our set plan and we will follow it to a t". People get new ideas as well as encounter set backs. I would find it extremely hard to believe that they simply do not have more ideas for new levels and so they just remake old ones.  If they choose to remake levels it will not be because they ran out of ideas it will be because they think its what people want or they think it will be easier and they can pump them out. I am fairly certain that if they decided not to add in remade levels they would have instead added in new ones, perhaps the overall level count would be less since it's harder to makes something new but it would still add something in.

[ChikoLad]

6 minutes ago, Sam Sanderson Sandleberger said:

Okay I guess I read you comment wrong. I thought you were saying that they gave you some reason to believe that this was the case and they didn't choose classic over new stages but I see you are just speculating correct?

Anyway, yes most games have a concept phase but tons of things often change during the actual development so it's never just a linear "hear is our set plan and we will follow it to a t". People get new ideas as well as encounter set backs. I would find it extremely hard to believe that they simply do not have more ideas for new levels and so they just remake old ones.  If they choose to remake levels it will not be because they ran out of ideas it will be because they think its what people want or they think it will be easier and they can pump them out. I am fairly certain that if they decided not to add in remade levels they would have instead added in new ones, perhaps the overall level count would be less since it's harder to makes something new but it would still add something in.

I know that game development isn't that black and white (from experience, lol), but I do sincerely think this is a case of them simply having only a certain amount of new stages for now, and they decided to add remixed stages to add more content.

I don't know when in their development they came to the decision to add remixed stages, but it doesn't really matter. I just don't see any reason to believe the remixed stages are cutting into development time right now, there's nothing suggesting this, and I think it's unnecessarily cynical to assume that. Of course, I don't have anything concrete to back my theory up either, but I see it as more likely based on the fact they can't develop original stages beyond what ideas they can come up with. So I'm just having faith that's what's going on and that the remixed ones are an extension to the game.

Another possibility is that the game has a story and the remixed stages are necessary to tell it.

[Soniman]

 

The idea that Eggman wins because he flings both Sonics to the future (not sure why Classic Sonic would be involved in that since he would have no reason to suspect anything was in trouble) and gets to take over means- from a canon point of view- that no one else, not Tails, not Knuckles, not Shadow, not Omega- could do anything to stop Eggman even if they wanted to. It's a garbage idea without the rest of the cast in play.

 

 

I assume it's the opposite and Eggman went back in time to mess with history so that he's always ruled.

So Tails never meets Sonic and becomes independent, Knuckles was probably tricked and killed by Eggman, Shadow remained in cold storage etc

[Dizcrybe]

Was this posted yet?

Courtesy of our own @Detective Paradox

 

EDIT: Never mind, I just realize the post is from 2014. Doubt if it's even relevant anymore

Edited July 24, 2016 by Dizcrybe

[TheLaw34]

4 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

Was this posted yet?

Courtesy of our own @Detective Paradox

 

EDIT: Never mind, I just realize the post is from 2014. Doubt if it's even relevant anymore

I mean it could stil be relevant since we haven't had a main sonic games since then. Also, yes it's been mentioned on here before. What I want to know is who is the guy making these claims and why should we take him seriously? I'm sure he's a big deal but I haven't been keep track of the sonics and what nots .

[Nepenthe]

6 minutes ago, Soniman said:

I assume it's the opposite and Eggman went back in time to mess with history so that he's always ruled.

So Tails never meets Sonic and becomes independent, Knuckles was probably tricked and killed by Eggman, Shadow remained in cold storage etc

That's definitely a feasible idea, but it doesn't lend itself to why both Sonics are once again in the same universe/timeline, unless Classic Sonic just followed Eggman around during his time shenanigans. But then wouldn't he just put a stop to that shit, like he did in Generations (which this isn't apparently a sequel to)? I feel like- because Sonic is generally guaranteed to win- that a situation this dire in the context of time travel has to be the result of a very quick trauma. My gut isn't giving me the feeling that Eggman himself went through time, but rather Classic Sonic did.

[kboyrulez12345]

13 minutes ago, Sam Sanderson Sandleberger said:

I mean it could stil be relevant since we haven't had a main sonic games since then. Also, yes it's been mentioned on here before. What I want to know is who is the guy making these claims and why should we take him seriously? I'm sure he's a big deal but I haven't been keep track of the sonics and what nots .

Second this. I remember reading about this before, but I forgot who this Endri guy is. Anyone can tell us?

[Betz]

1 minute ago, kboyrulez12345 said:

Second this. I remember reading about this before, but I forgot who this Endri guy is. Anyone can tell us?

From what I gather, he's a beta tester for the Sonic games. He's had hands on with "Sonic Revolution" already back in 2014 so....

[kboyrulez12345]

Well if that's true, then...that means the gameplay won't be like the boost games. 

Makes me wish there was gameplay in the trailer for an indicator of what to expect.

[Nepenthe]

I don't think they're dumping Boost gameplay in its entirety because you blatantly see boosting and sliding when he's dodging debris. Those are very specific actions to put in a teaser that's supposed to be indicative of the game to some degree.

[KHCast]

Yeah I don't think they're scrapping it. Changing the feature up a bit and perhaps taking inspiration from multiple games I think is the likely thing they're doing here.

[TheLaw34]

3 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

I don't think they're dumping Boost gameplay in its entirety because you blatantly see boosting and sliding when he's dodging debris. Those are very specific actions to put in a teaser that's supposed to be indicative of the game to some degree.

Well when people say boost gameplay I don't think they just mean having the ability to boost. I may be totally wrong but if there was boost in a sonic adventure game would that be considered boost gameplay? They could make the gameplay totally different while still giving him a move that makes him go faster.

[kboyrulez12345]

5 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Yeah I don't think they're scrapping it. Changing the feature up a bit and perhaps taking inspiration from multiple games I think is the likely thing they're doing here.

Yeah, that seems more likely.

[Nepenthe]

If there was the Boost as we currently know it in Sonic Adventure when the game came out, they would've had to design the game around Sonic's different acceleration, speed, and cornering capabilities, meaning you wouldn't have the original Sonic Adventure with an extra move tacked on, but rather an early Boost game called Sonic Adventure.

But that hypothetical is regardless of the point: the profile shot in the teaser plays exactly like any 2D section from Unleashed or Generations, right down to the poses Sonic takes for sliding and Boosting. To look at that scene and conclude Boost gameplay is getting fully scrapped seems like a big-ass stretch. 

[TheLaw34]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

If there was the Boost as we currently know it in Sonic Adventure when the game came out, they would've had to design the game around Sonic's different acceleration, speed, and cornering capabilities, meaning you wouldn't have the original Sonic Adventure with an extra move tacked on, but rather an early Boost game called Sonic Adventure anyway.

But that hypothetical is regardless of the point: the profile shot in the teaser plays exactly like any 2D section from Unleashed or Generations, right down to the poses Sonic takes for sliding and Boosting. To look at that scene and conclude Boost gameplay is getting fully scrapped seems like a big-ass stretch. 

Yeah I'm pretty sure it will be very much like all the games before it. All I'm saying is that them design around him having the move could lead to many different types of levels and gameplay and it could become something Extremely different from what people say when they think boost gameplay.