Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[Blue Blood]

Yeah, I mean, I can totally understand people being a bit dissatisfied with the levels being too close to the originals. Jez makes some very points above about ensuring that everyone, not just the hardcore fans who have the classics memorised down to the last ring, will recognise the changes made to the levels. And personally speaking, I'm still struggling to find fault with what we've seen. I just can't bring myself to be at all disappointed by the approach that Mania is taking. I understand the criticisms, but just don't agree with them. It's the nostalgia blast that SEGA have been trying and failing to give us up until now, and also something completely new. The parts of the level layouts that look familiar don't last long before before fresh ideas seamlessly blend in. And I'm still very hopeful that Act 2 will be even more original, as is the case with GHZ.

I first joined the online Sonic community back in 2002/3 through Chao Island, Sonic-Cult and SFGHQ when I was only 9/10 years old. SA2 was the latest Sonic game at that point, with Heroes due to be the first major game out since SEGA went third-party. Although there have been many ups and downs since then, Mania is the game I've been waiting for all these years. I don't even think it's a bad idea to revisit more classic stages than introduce new ones. But I understand and appreciate where some of the disappointment is coming from, especially those who aren't too hot on the classic series, feel burnt out by all the nostalgia pandering in recent years or just want something else. You can't please everyone (take note, Sonic Forces), but you can focus on different things at different times to play to different strengths.

[Jango]

I swear to you, the classic levels are so complex (especially Sonic 3&K), that I still can't memorize everything, every ring, every secret. Heck, I've played Sonic & Knuckles just the other day up to Lava Reef and I still found new stuff. I think the games I've memorized most of the layout and secrets are Sonic CD and Sonic 1. So yeah, the re-imagined classics don't affect me as much in that sense. And honestly, I don't think I can get disappointed otherwise, there isn't a level that I dislike its art or music. I'm easy to please.

[Blue Blood]

2 minutes ago, Jango said:

I swear to you, the classic levels are so complex (especially Sonic 3&K), that I still can't memorize everything, every ring, every secret. Heck, I've played Sonic & Knuckles just the other day up to Lava Reef and I still found new stuff. I think the game I've memorized most of the layout and secrets is Sonic CD and Sonic 1.

I bet there's a lot of people who don't realise you can get all seven emeralds in Emerald Hill or Mushroom Hill, or that there are special stages in Lava Reef 2 even, Heck, I wonder how many people didn't know about the pushable spiked in Flying Battery until we saw a less hidden version of the same thing in Green Hill Mania.

[CleverSonicUsername]

I think I could pick out a rehashed segment of a classic level out of a line up every time, and that is perhaps the saddest admission I have ever made.

While I am a little underwhelmed that we're seeing something like that persist past Green Hill, and while Flying Battery is far from my first choice for a S&K level, I'll still probably love the shit out of Mania. Even the classics, which I frequently come back to today, had levels I disliked completely, or general elements of their design that I think are flawed. Still love them to death.

1 minute ago, Blue Blood said:

I bet there's a lot of people who don't realise you can get all seven emeralds in Emerald Hill or Mushroom Hill, or that there are special stages in Lava Reef 2 even, Heck, I wonder how many people didn't know about the pushable spiked in Flying Battery until we saw a less hidden version of the same thing in Green Hill Mania.

As a kid I would always get all 7 in Sonic 2 during Emerald Hill. Nice thing was, if you missed one for whatever reason, the Genesis cached information in such a way that you could hit restart and reattempt them without losing progress. Goal posts would reset but your emerald count would not.

[Jango]

Blue Blood, there might be people who don't know how to get pass the barrel in Carnival Night even!

[Ajavalo]

Since nobody has said it yet: an object from Wing Fortress Zone can be seen in the latest footage, have you noticed it?

[JosepHenry]

3 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I bet there's a lot of people who don't realise you can get all seven emeralds in Emerald Hill or Mushroom Hill, or that there are special stages in Lava Reef 2 even, Heck, I wonder how many people didn't know about the pushable spiked in Flying Battery until we saw a less hidden version of the same thing in Green Hill Mania.

Wait what? I didn't know about any of those.

Time to play the classics again...

[Blue Blood]

Just now, Ajavalo said:

Since nobody has said it yet: an object from Wing Fortress Zone can be seen in the latest footage, have you seen it?

You mean the big fans that we saw in the FBZ reveal trailer, or the boosters that were always in both Wing Fortress and Flying Battery?

[Jango]

TBH, I didn't knew about the Angel/Eggman statue in Sonic CD (Wacky Workbench) untill 2011, and that's because there's a trophy related to these.

[CleverSonicUsername]

1 minute ago, Jango said:

TBH, I didn't knew about the Angel/Eggman statue in Sonic CD (Wacky Workbench) untill 2011, and that's because there's a trophy related to these.

Speaking of CD, I know where every damn robot generator is by heart, and I have CD's crapass special stages to blame for that. :V

[Ajavalo]

Yes, I mean the big fans. I don't remember them being mentioned -maybe after the SXSW footage, but I'm not sure-. Another thing to add to the list of Gimmicks From Zones That Won't Be Remade Appearing In Other Zones!

[CleverSonicUsername]

10 minutes ago, Ajavalo said:

Yes, I mean the big fans. I don't remember them being mentioned -maybe after the SXSW footage, but I'm not sure-. Another thing to add to the list of Gimmicks From Zones That Won't Be Remade Appearing In Other Zones!

 

My guesses for levels that won't appear based on returning gimmicks and other junk:
 

Spoiler

 

Spring Yard: Rollers, too similar to Studiopolis

Marble: Bat enemies in Green Hill

Labyrinth: "red herring" post

Aquatic Ruin: Whistle is in Mirage Saloon

Emerald Hill: Mobius strips are in Green Hill, also it's too similar anyway

Wing Fortress: Gimmicks in Flying Battery, while also being too similar to FB

Palmtree Panic: Lifted segment appears in Green Hill, too similar

Angel Island: First level, so it's unlikely

Mushroom Hill: Too similar to Green Hill in theme, also technically a first level

Sandopolis: Mirage Saloon fills the desert trope

Death Egg: Confirmed to not be in the game

Doomsday: Seems unlikely they wouldn't just make an original Super Sonic stage

 

 

[Blue Blood]

I'd also throw Casino Night, Collision Chaos and possibly Carnival Night out of the mix, considering that we've got pinball/bouncy/casino elements in both in Mirage Saloon and Studiopolis. Mystic Cave and Quartz Quadrant are my top choices for S2 and SCD, but not together since their themes are vaguely similar and either could borrow elements from the other quite nicely. Hydrocity or Ice Cap has got to be in there too. 

[CleverSonicUsername]

Good point, they do skew too closely to the "bouncy level" trope. Honestly I'd toss Wacky Workbench in with that bunch too.

Mystic Cave and Hydrocity are my must haves. Easily my top favorite levels in the classic games, and I would love to see what the Mania team does with them. Quartz Quadrant is also an extremely good pick, and I'd love a new take on Ice Cap, though I worry its music may be a complicating factor.

[BlueFlare]

My predictions are Starlight, Quartz Quadrant (or Mystic Cave), Hill Top, Hydrocity and Ice Cap, I think those would fit well with the current mix.

[JosepHenry]

I would throw Ice Cap away if Chrome Gadget is an option. They could do a new snowy level.

(Also Chrome Gadget is not composed by MJ. So no music issues)

[CleverSonicUsername]

Hydrocity seems like a real sure fire thing to me. It's usually considered the best water level, it's a fan favorite from Sonic 3 and Knuckles in general, and its music seems to have the least direct connection to Jackson outside of Angel Island Zone. I could be dead wrong, but I'm feeling pretty confident in it.

edit: Again this is assuming music is actually an issue, which, who knows.

[Jango]

29 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I'd also throw Casino Night, Collision Chaos and possibly Carnival Night out of the mix, considering that we've got pinball/bouncy/casino elements in both in Mirage Saloon and Studiopolis. Mystic Cave Oil Ocean and Quartz Quadrant are my top choices for S2 and SCD, but not together since their themes are vaguely similar and either could borrow elements from the other quite nicely. Hydrocity or Ice Cap has got to be in there too. 

 

Just swap Mystic Cave with Oil Ocean:

 

[Blue Blood]

5 minutes ago, Jango said:

 

Just swap Mystic Cave with Oil Ocean:

 

If they did QQZ then I guess OOZ would be cool, but honestly I don't like OOZ an awful lot. I'd rather see Hill Top Zone. Though actually... they're using the elemental shields in clever ways this time around, so the fire shield in in Oil Ocean could be potentially amazing. And I think @A Match in Oil Ocean Zone would agree.

[Jango]

DUDE. If the oil is still there, having the bubble shield on could allow Sonic to stand and walk on it instead of sink. And the fire shield would literally burn everything.

[CleverSonicUsername]

This lined up too perfectly.

[Jango]

I see why Mystic Cave would be a great choice for Mania, it's a unique level, the music is great and the gimmicks are nice. Some badniks are assholes, tho'. But I like MCZ in general. I just wonder how they're gonna address the Hidden Palace entrance now that it's canon. It is canon? Hm...

Anyways, if the Magician Heavy is any indication of what kind of level trope we're gonna get, expect something "mystical" or "spooky" (or outright crazy and psychedelic), and if that's the case, having Mystic Cave would be redundant. The last thing I want is another case of Generations of City Levels.

Speaking of Heavies giving out level tropes, there's a ninja one... so... Japan level?

[TheOcelot]

Naoto has tweeted another sketch:

Really liking the one on the right.

[Psychicmoose103]

3 hours ago, Jango said:

I see why Mystic Cave would be a great choice for Mania, it's a unique level, the music is great and the gimmicks are nice. Some badniks are assholes, tho'. But I like MCZ in general. I just wonder how they're gonna address the Hidden Palace entrance now that it's canon. It is canon? Hm...

Anyways, if the Magician Heavy is any indication of what kind of level trope we're gonna get, expect something "mystical" or "spooky" (or outright crazy and psychedelic), and if that's the case, having Mystic Cave would be redundant. The last thing I want is another case of Generations of City Levels.

Speaking of Heavies giving out level tropes, there's a ninja one... so... Japan level?

Perhaps a magician heavy could go well in a sort of original house of cards or circus level

[BlueFlare]

5 hours ago, Joseph Mello said:

I would throw Ice Cap away if Chrome Gadget is an option. They could do a new snowy level.

(Also Chrome Gadget is not composed by MJ. So no music issues)

Well, yes. I didn't even think Sonic 3's competition stages as real stages in Mania. For me, Chrome Gadget's theme is the by far superior between the two.