*(What If We Got A Satam/Archie Runners Game?)*

[Chris Knopps]

Seriously, why can't we have the Satam/Archie cast in a Sonic game already? At least in a spin-off where there is ZERO harm in doing so.

I still feel like Satam/Archie deserve their own franchise. While there are things I enjoy about BOOM, it's one of those things I feel like was a wasted opportunity considering we could have had the aforementioned happen instead.

Regarding character amounts in the series, the cast is in no way over saturated as only the main cast and the most popular have been kept. We only have a handful of cast presently out of all we've had through the years. And as far as establishing any kind of continuity, that's not really necessary. Think of it as seeing Sticks in the Olympics and in Runners, you don't need to worry about such things in spin-off titles because it can just happen with few qualms. While personally I'd enjoy a series of games and such revolving Satam/Archie, at the same time it's possible to bring the characters into main series titles as well without the need for concern over the Satam/Archie canon as they can have a unique beginning/introduction to the game series, there's nothing stopping that kind of method. It's as I said recently, if too many characters is an actual issue, abandon new villains, stick with Eggman, and let other new characters come into the franchise using that method.

While it's important to remember established characters, there shouldn't be fear over new characters coming in at the cost of established characters not appearing in this or that game. So long as you've got Sonic and Eggman, if old characters appear, that's great. If only new characters appear asides them, that's great too. You don't need Tails/Knuckles/Amy in every single game, nor do you need any other character in every single game so long as, again, you've got Sonic and Eggman, or heck, even just Sonic with new characters and a new villain in a game is fine too, not a crime. It's a matter of personal demand/expectation, one of which I find overbearingly restrictive.

We've seen Tails in every game and Knuckles and Amy in every other game and plenty other characters in Generations as well, plus the handheld version of Colors. Established characters have been around more than enough, just not in the playable sense. As I said before, it's like eating the same ice cream for every meal, every day, and still demanding the same thing. Thus why I think a Runners styled game, or whatever spin-off title, would be fine for the Archie/Satam cast to be involved with, at least for starters. It's a massive market/section of the fan base to profit off of if the willingness to include the characters in a game was there.

I see this as even less of an issue now that the cast has their more SEGA-esque redesigns.

Also, major props to the following fan who created this picture and made me squeal like a kid again.

By - Drawloverlala of Deviantart

 

[Badnik Mechanic]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Seriously, why can't we have the Satam/Archie cast in a Sonic game already? At least in a spin-off where there is ZERO harm in doing so.

Nobody outside of a minority group would care/know who the characters are to justify going through all the licensing issues.

 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Detective Hogfather said:

Nobody outside of a minority group would care/know who the characters are to justify going through all the licensing issues.

 

If that's the case, why not expand the characters recognition then to not only garner profit in a game, but garner more profit towards the comics simultaneously? It's a win-win scenario for SEGA.

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

If that's the case, why not expand the characters recognition then to not only garner profit in a game, but garner more profit towards the comics simultaneously? It's a win-win scenario for SEGA.

I don't think you understand how this works. 

Archie is not available easily outside of the US.

How do you expand recognition when you have to rely on mainstream newsagents to suddenly decide to import and stock a comic book and hope it sells in such numbers that people would be interested? <----This is something you really need to answer otherwise any master plan fails from the outset.

Also I think a lot of archie fans greatly over-estimate the books appeal to Sonic fans. 

I for one know of archie Sonic, I know who some of the main characters are in it, but that's where my interest in it starts and stops, I know of some of their names, that's it, can't really back this up, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the mindset of the vast majority, we know of the characters and that it exists, but that's where the interest starts and ends.

Every time a new game is announced, other than some archie support groups you never hear mass rally cries for the inclusion of Bunnie or whoever else is in it. You do hear mass calls for core characters to the Sega series. 

There is just no interest to justify it at all.

Quote

the cast is in no way over saturated as only the main cast and the most popular have been kept. 

lol.

[sonicDX]

31 minutes ago, Detective Hogfather said:

Archie is not available easily outside of the US.

That's right, that's why I've never ever read a single Sonic comic. And I regret it so much, because I love comics and I can imagine what a different and exciting world the Sonic comics can be.

[DarkLight]

I think you mean over-estimate there, Hogfather.

But yeah, even as an American who has easier access to Archie comics than most people here, count me in the "no thanks" for further Archie representation outside the comics. Plus, it'd make no sense for Sega since prior to the reboot, they actually wanted all non-Sega Sonic characters, including the SatAM cast gone just for the reboot. It was the Archie stuff (or Ian I don't really know for sure) who convinced them to keep them in. So please tell me why would Sega would go through the effort of putting in these character whom they don't really know or care about in a Runners-type game when they were completely okay with ditching them in a rebooted version of the comic prior?    

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Because not a lot of people give a shit about Archie enough for them to go through the rigorous process of handling copyrights etc

[Ryannumber1gamer]

2 hours ago, Detective Hogfather said:

Nobody outside of a minority group would care/know who the characters are to justify going through all the licensing issues.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mikyeong said:

Because not a lot of people give a shit about Archie enough for them to go through the rigorous process of handling copyrights etc

What copyrights? SEGA owns the SatAM characters, as well as the AoSTH characters, that's the entire reason why Archie Comics are still able to use Sally, Rotor, and the other SatAM/AoSTH characters (Don't ask me about the Underground characters, I assume they do, but I'm not sure on that front). How would there be any licensing issues over SEGA placing in characters that they own into their own games?

As for me personally, I want them in, but only on one condition. Ian Flynn writes for them. I've already seen the Sega characters flanderized by Potac and Graff. I don't want the Archie cast to follow suit.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Detective Hogfather said:

I don't think you understand how this works. 

Archie is not available easily outside of the US.

How do you expand recognition when you have to rely on mainstream newsagents to suddenly decide to import and stock a comic book and hope it sells in such numbers that people would be interested? <----This is something you really need to answer otherwise any master plan fails from the outset.

Also I think a lot of archie fans greatly over-estimate the books appeal to Sonic fans. 

I for one know of archie Sonic, I know who some of the main characters are in it, but that's where my interest in it starts and stops, I know of some of their names, that's it, can't really back this up, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the mindset of the vast majority, we know of the characters and that it exists, but that's where the interest starts and ends.

Every time a new game is announced, other than some archie support groups you never hear mass rally cries for the inclusion of Bunnie or whoever else is in it. You do hear mass calls for core characters to the Sega series. 

There is just no interest to justify it at all.

lol.

It's as I said in my original post above, you don't need to worry about the canon story for the Satam cast if you bring them into a side-game or even the main series, you can easily just put them in a side game as they have with Sticks or you can bring them into the games with their own unique introduction. People who know of them from Satam and the comics would be happy and those who know nothing of them won't have to know their pasts because the games would create their own plot for the characters, their own way of how they are met, etc.

The comics weren't in other territories but Sonic Satam was NOT exclusive to the USA, keep that in mind, so the main cast ARE known to those outside of the USA despite the comics never appearing elsewhere. Just clarifying that issue.

And to my knowledge especially post-reboot the comic cast have been receiving a greater amount of praise/recognition than before the reboot, so they are being seen in a better light by many.

There's possibilities to be seen if the right effort was put into introducing the Satam/Archie cast properly in the game franchise. Again perhaps by introducing them in a side title and creating some means of giving them their own unique origin/introduction into a main game sometime. Would they have to stay? No. But for a side game and a lone main title, it could be used to garner feedback on them for the possibilities of future usage.

Regarding your lol to the cast not being over saturated, again, no it's not. The franchise is 25 years old now, and all we have are the main Sonic group, the Chaotix, the Shadow group, Eggman, Silver and Blaze, that's the only main cast that still shows up, save for random Cream appearances. Just because the franchise has seen many faces it doesn't mean all of them have been kept, this is a realistic thing. You go to all kinds of places in every game, it's an expectation that should be accepted to see new characters both good and bad, to play as new characters.

This is not a damning thing, just a topic full of ones personal bigotry.

[Nepenthe]

No way I'd want the characters in even a mobile spin-off. Because everyone knows it wouldn't stop at just that one single title. Sega would be pressured by Archie fans to add these motherfuckers to the main games because "Why are they not being given more spotlight?" "It's not fair that they're only in the small mobile game." "They're better written than the game cast and deserve to be in the games more than most of the game characters do." No. That's a fucking Pandora's Box I'm not even willing to unlock.

The fact is, the comics have always been advertising for the games as have other spin-off media. The games are not advertisement for the comics. They are not actually equivalent canons in this sense to warrant cross pollinating as they please, hence why Archie is really an American-only thing.  If Sega needs more characters they can make their own.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

No way I'd want the characters in even a mobile spin-off. Because everyone knows it wouldn't stop at just that one single title. Sega would be pressured by Archie fans to add these motherfuckers to the main games because "Why are they not being given more spotlight?" "It's not fair that they're only in the small mobile game." "They're better written than the game cast and deserve to be in the games more than most of the game characters do." No. That's a fucking Pandora's Box I'm not even willing to unlock.

The fact is, the comics have always been advertising for the games as have other spin-off media. The games are not advertisement for the comics. They are not actually equivalent canons in this sense to warrant cross pollinating as they please, hence why Archie is really an American-only thing.  If Sega needs more characters they can make their own.

Well, there's really nothing wrong with that demand. You'll still have plenty of games featuring the main/old game cast, as well as new games featuring the Archie/Satam cast from time to time.

Growth/evolution is not that terrifying of a topic, nor should it be that enraging. You're welcome to like/hate them at will, but it shouldn't be to the point of outright forbidding anything out of said dislike, especially if they make games for said fans, and games for you simultaneously. Nothing wrong with a treat for others now and then.

Nobody is saying they have to be in every game, just like realistically Tails, Knuckles, etc don't have to be in every game as mentioned. It's nice to see them when they are, great when they're playable as well, but an expectation to be in everything constantly? No, that's not just unfair to developers freedom, but the consumers right to something different instead of constantly buying the same thing, just with different stages. Everyone has a right to more new/larger content than just the locations they play in.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

2 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

No way I'd want the characters in even a mobile spin-off. Because everyone knows it wouldn't stop at just that one single title. Sega would be pressured by Archie fans to add these motherfuckers to the main games because "Why are they not being given more spotlight?" "It's not fair that they're only in the small mobile game." "They're better written than the game cast and deserve to be in the games more than most of the game characters do." No. That's a fucking Pandora's Box I'm not even willing to unlock.

The fact is, the comics have always been advertising for the games as have other spin-off media. The games are not advertisement for the comics. They are not actually equivalent canons in this sense to warrant cross pollinating as they please, hence why Archie is really an American-only thing.  If Sega needs more characters they can make their own.

In general, it isn't because the Archie characters are written better. It's the fact that Ian Flynn generally just writes more or less all of the characters better. At least better than Potac and Graff in most people's opinions, and that ties into the fact Ian Flynn is an actual long time Sonic fan (I believe Potac and Graff have barely played many of the games). 

On top of that, I don't see why the canons can't come together either. Archie is as much of a canon as Boom or SatAM, or even Schoolhouse is, and we already have Sticks of all characters crossing into the main series. Plus as previously said, SEGA already own the SatAM characters. It's not a case of placing X character into Y game to promote Z product. It's a case of SEGA having ownership of these characters for years, and not putting them to any use outside of one comic, and one show, and many people see that as a shame. Say what you want, but the Archie cast does have more development than a good chunk of the game characters. That's not to say the game cast shouldn't appear, I think they should, but because SEGA have harsher restrictions on allowing their game characters actual development, Ian had to focus most development on the rest of the cast, so yes, the Archie cast are more developed than a good chunk of game cast, and that's simply down to 20 years of different character dynamics, and relationships changing.

Honestly, I think before even the Archie cast comes in, they seriously need to do something about the writing issue. I want the game cast to actually be developed and well done before we even begin to consider bringing in more of the expanded universe cast. It's no secret I hate Potac and Graff's writing, and stories so I don't particularly want them getting their hands on already developed characters.

[Nepenthe]

I don't want Archie elements in the games period. I don't want the games to be influenced by a canon I don't care about, particularly in light of the fact that the games are still undergoing an identity crisis in the first place. This is a respect I afford to Archie fans in turn who feel their unique universe doesn't need elements from my universe butting in on what makes their universe enjoyable. There's nothing inherently wrong with my zero-tolerance stance either. There's no current problem right now to be solved by taking Archie characters and shoving them in the games.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Also the reason why Sticks gets a free pass is because for one, she's from a popular canon (Sonic Boom) and because Sonic Boom is coming to Japan, it's not strictly an American only canon. 

[Chris Knopps]

17 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

Also the reason why Sticks gets a free pass is because for one, she's from a popular canon (Sonic Boom) and because Sonic Boom is coming to Japan, it's not strictly an American only canon. 

Neither is Satam/Archie wholeheartedly as Satam was in more territories than the USA despite the comic sides exclusivity.

Keep in mind despite various opinions Archie Comic's series is pretty popular for what it's worth. It has existed for over twenty years to prove it whereas the BOOM comics lasted but a few months.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

20 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

I don't want Archie elements in the games period. I don't want the games to be influenced by a canon I don't care about, particularly in light of the fact that the games are still undergoing an identity crisis in the first place. This is a respect I afford to Archie fans in turn who feel their unique universe doesn't need elements from my universe butting in on what makes their universe enjoyable. There's nothing inherently wrong with my zero-tolerance stance either. There's no current problem right now to be solved by taking Archie characters and shoving them in the games.

If it was the old canon, you would definitely have a point, but since the reboot, Archie have incorporated so many game elements to the point where it might as well just be a general Sonic story driven universe, with some non-game characters. From the way you make it sound like, it sounds like the game's elements would need to be actively changed to allow the Freedom Fighters in the game, when really, their origins and some of their elements could be changed to allow them to fit in the game universe. Even the comic have adapted a backstory that could fit into the games.The events of the original trilogy happened with solely Sonic and Tails, and the Freedom Fighters then were inspired by Sonic's heroism that they rose up and teamed up with Sonic to help him stop Robotnik. It's a reasonable stance if you just want absolutely fuck all elements from the comics in the game, but honestly, the comic's reboot has already changed up things to the point where the comic's characters honestly could fit right at home with the game canon.

19 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

Also the reason why Sticks gets a free pass is because for one, she's from a popular canon (Sonic Boom) and because Sonic Boom is coming to Japan, it's not strictly an American only canon. 

Boom is unbelievably diverse with those who hate it, and who like it. So I wouldn't say it's the most popular of canons, especially since RoL seriously spoiled a lot of people's opinions regarding the sub series. Even then, Sticks isn't that much of a popular character, with most just seeing her as a one note joke character who got promoted to a full role just to round out Team Sonic with a second female character, so again, that's not really a good point to try defend her canon movement between Boom, and the main series.

[shdowhunt60]

Sorry, I'm just too busy laughing at the prospect of doing the daily spin to get the comics characters all ransomed off to RNG as opposed to just the SEGA cast, than I am to answer this seriously.

[Singapore Sling]

Sticks is the best and should be in every continuity.

I don't even mean Sonic continuities. Make her show up in the next Halloween movie. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

The comics weren't in other territories but Sonic Satam was NOT exclusive to the USA, keep that in mind, so the main cast ARE known to those outside of the USA despite the comics never appearing elsewhere. Just clarifying that issue.

SatAM has been nearly dead for 20 years, and you have the same problem, out side of maybe 2 characters, few people know or care who the others are. Which incidentally are the same ones in the archie universe.

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Except the comic has also been being translated in other countries such as Germany and France since Genesis. Even Archives Volume 1 was translated into German.

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Detective Hogfather said:

SatAM has been nearly dead for 20 years, and you have the same problem, out side of maybe 2 characters, few people know or care who the others are. Which incidentally are the same ones in the archie universe.

 

Satam really hasn't been dead whatsoever, it has been alive and kicking the same as most Sonic content, despite its age, has. Just as the Genesis and Adventure stuff is kept alive by their fan bases, the same goes for Satam and Archie really, it's just up to ones willingness to acknowledge it.

There are groups of fans for many things, I simply consider the Satam/Archie group worth cashing in on, if nothing else to simply further grow the franchise. And if using said characters results in the comics spreading further into other territories, again, that's a win-win for many, especially SEGA/Archie as it's further brand recognition, further growth in the consumer market, and new options for what they do with the franchise to keep it fresh besides Green Hill and the ever aging main Sonic cast.

Again, nothing wrong with sticking to nods to the past, nothing wrong with maintaining the presence of the old cast, but there's nothing wrong with adding onto that and providing so much more for people to experience, both in locations and cast.

[Sean]

As much as it would rile people up to see continuity crossover, I'm not opposed to it. I like the Freedom Fighters a lot. However I struggle to imagine how it would work out

Any characters that show up in a game would need to be drastically repurposed. For starters, you can't even call them "freedom fighters," because unlike his comic counterpart, game Eggman isn't a mass-murdering tyrant. You'd also need to eliminate their history with Sonic and the rest of the game cast altogether. At this point already it would take less effort to simply create new characters to fill in their roles

If it weren't for those (and other) problems, I think they'd work nicely as NPCs in a single game or two. However, any interest I have in seeing the comic cast in the games is pure personal bias. I like characters like Sally, Bunnie, and Antoine, so I wouldn't mind seeing them appear in the Sega continuity, but I don't care at all to have, say, Snively show up.

I still think Cubot and Orbot should be replaced with Scratch and Grounder though.

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, Sean said:

As much as it would rile people up to see continuity crossover, I'm not opposed to it. I like the Freedom Fighters a lot. However I struggle to imagine how it would work out

Any characters that show up in a game would need to be drastically repurposed. For starters, you can't even call them "freedom fighters," because unlike his comic counterpart, game Eggman isn't a mass-murdering tyrant. You'd also need to eliminate their history with Sonic and the rest of the game cast altogether. At this point already it would take less effort to simply create new characters to fill in their roles

If it weren't for those (and other) problems, I think they'd work nicely as NPCs in a single game or two. However, any interest I have in seeing the comic cast in the games is pure personal bias. I like characters like Sally, Bunnie, and Antoine, so I wouldn't mind seeing them appear in the Sega continuity, but I don't care at all to have, say, Snively show up.

It's as I've stated, they could have their own origins/introductions in the game canon and have no relation to their Satam/Archie canon counterparts. There's really no rule in saying "If Satam/Archie characters appear we have to include their world/backstories/etc"

Think of it as what BOOM tried to do with the cast, only... Well... You know... Actually giving them introductions as if nobody knows them as I think BOOM intended...

I am right on that, aren't I...? Kinda sketchy...

But yeah, no rule in saying any of their Satam/Archie history has to be in the games if they appear. They can be a universal existence kind of thing the way Sonic has no relation to his Satam/Archie counterpart.

[Badnik Mechanic]

10 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Satam really hasn't been dead whatsoever,

LOL! Seriously!? 

Outside of the fandom nobody knows what SatAM is, new fans sure as hell don't have that much of an attachment to it. You've gone from one minority group to an even smaller minority group with this one. 

 

 

[Sean]

My point though is that despite me being alright with them showing up, it's not practical at all to change them so much and it's easier (and would make more sense) for Sega to come up with entirely new characters to fill their niches.