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*(What If We Got A Satam/Archie Runners Game?)*


Chris Knopps

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On 2/18/2016 at 8:32 AM, Chris Knopps said:

It's a massive market/section of the fan base to profit off of if the willingness to include the characters in a game was there.

Sorry but...I don't think this is true at all. Us Archie Sonic fans frequently overestimate our importance and how many of us there are. Take the broad category of Sonic fans, then divide it up into casual and dedicated ones. I'd guess that most casual fans either don't care or might not even know about the comics or old TV shows. So you're left with dedicated fans, but those who specifically care about this branch of media are, all things considered, a pretty small subsection of that group.

Personally, while I like Archie Sonic, I just don't see much point to this. Granted, I would probably squeal like a little girl if it did happen :P , but overall it would serve little purpose other than to cause some needless contention in the fandom. I just honestly don't understand why Sega should bother with something like this when they have so many other priorities they could be focusing on. Even making, say, a chao garden app would have the potential to appeal to a much larger section of people. Why focus on something that huge numbers of even the most devoted Sonic fans care little about and which has limited appeal to markets beyond that? And if the point is to advertise the comics...well, why? The comics advertise the games, not the other way around.

In short, it would be kinda cool, but I don't see the point.

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On February 18, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Vertekins said:

For instance, in order to preserve Bunnie as she is, you’d have to incorporate the unwelcome concept of roboticization that doesn’t really have a place in the games or in Eggman’s modus operandi. A big part of Bunnie’s character development focused on her struggle to accept her roboticized body and use it deftly. Remove the cause that led to that development and you no longer have Bunnie, the highly sympathetic part of her character and her main schtick.

Not really.

In the new universe, Bunnie's backstory was changed so that she was forced to get cybernetics to save her life after she was injured by one of Dr. Eggman's attacks.

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If her Runners bio used a similarly nondescript explanation (like it does to avoid any Boom lore for Sticks), I could see her getting leeway.

As said though, actually giving her and the other Freedom Fighters official games counterparts runs the risk of SEGA grasping creative control of them and placing the same mandates they do on their own characters. If the games say nothing about robotocization in her backstory, that may null out the comics doing so as well.

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1 hour ago, E-122-Psi said:

If her Runners bio used a similarly nondescript explanation (like it does to avoid any Boom lore for Sticks), I could see her getting leeway.

As said though, actually giving her and the other Freedom Fighters official games counterparts runs the risk of SEGA grasping creative control of them and placing the same mandates they do on their own characters. If the games say nothing about robotocization in her backstory, that may null out the comics doing so as well.

They already restrict Sonic plenty in the comics and the other main cast nowadays.

Poor bast@rd isn't even allowed to cry because it's apparently uncool.

SEGA wouldn't no cool if the CEO was bathing in ice.

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10 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Sorry but...I don't think this is true at all. Us Archie Sonic fans frequently overestimate our importance and how many of us there are. Take the broad category of Sonic fans, then divide it up into casual and dedicated ones. I'd guess that most casual fans either don't care or might not even know about the comics or old TV shows. So you're left with dedicated fans, but those who specifically care about this branch of media are, all things considered, a pretty small subsection of that group.

Personally, while I like Archie Sonic, I just don't see much point to this. Granted, I would probably squeal like a little girl if it did happen :P , but overall it would serve little purpose other than to cause some needless contention in the fandom. I just honestly don't understand why Sega should bother with something like this when they have so many other priorities they could be focusing on. Even making, say, a chao garden app would have the potential to appeal to a much larger section of people. Why focus on something that huge numbers of even the most devoted Sonic fans care little about and which has limited appeal to markets beyond that? And if the point is to advertise the comics...well, why? The comics advertise the games, not the other way around.

In short, it would be kinda cool, but I don't see the point.

Actually, I can sort of see his point...althought maybe not for the main seris games. Would be better as a sub-franchise ala Boom.

One can't really preict how most casual fans will be toward such a thing. If they aren't that bothered as more dedicated fans, you could still attract their interest by delivering something entertaining with these new fans in the revival of such material and make them dedicated fans. Or they can remain being not so bothered by them, or not like them at all - it can go anyway here. Meanwhile, if something like this were to happen, I could see a surge of dedicated older fans who grew up with the TV show at least being estatic to a large degree who will join the fan newcomers over the media. It really depends on how you advertise and work on the media.

Not that it'll be all sunshine and daisies if it came to fruition, given the fandom's fractured state. Contention will definitely occur, but infighting between different factions isn't anything new to this fandom. But still, let's not be so sure of how things turn out, especially when we've been proven wrong in the past for better or worse.

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3 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

They already restrict Sonic plenty in the comics and the other main cast nowadays.

Poor bast@rd isn't even allowed to cry because it's apparently uncool.

SEGA wouldn't no cool if the CEO was bathing in ice.

Well, Sonic isn't also the type to be visibly emotional so not crying on camera fits. He's not allowed to be SEEN crying.... not to cry as a whole. 

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1 minute ago, Detective Mikgenes said:

Well, Sonic isn't also the type to be visibly emotional so not crying on camera fits. He's not allowed to be SEEN crying.... not to cry as a whole. 

And people consider that a good thing...?

That's why he looks/sounds so d@mn awkward when he DOES show any emotion save for the obnoxious laugh.

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1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

And people consider that a good thing...?

That's why he looks/sounds so d@mn awkward when he DOES show any emotion save for the obnoxious laugh.

Well it IS Sonic's character and personalty. You see, Sonic pretty much is strong character in terms of emotions and is not quick to get emotional and when he does, it's usually off camera or shown in a different way. No need for him to shed tears. The way he shows emotions in the games especially in the storybook series has tugged at my heartstrings more than him sobbing would ever do. 

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On 2/18/2016 at 5:45 PM, Sega DogTagz said:

 

^Ignore this quote here. Couldn't edit it out.

Are people still misinterpreting that whole "crying" mandate?

There have been issues where he has cried post-reboot. It's just one tear at most. And you know what? That's more than enough if you're going to have Sonic emote a certain way.

Really the mandate is more like 'Sonic can't cry excessively' rather than 'can't cry at all.'

EDIT: Meant to say post-reboot, not prior to the reboot. 

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Spoiler

CXiQRtLUEAAQl3j.jpg:large

 

Even Super Sonic has small restrictions to what emotions he's supposed to show.

Honestly, SEGA can be a little too strict sometimes, even for something simple, but hey, they call the shots.

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10 minutes ago, Dantemustdie00 said:

 

Even Super Sonic has small restrictions to what emotions he's supposed to show.

Honestly, SEGA can be a little too strict sometimes, even for something simple, but hey, they call the shots.

Still, you need more than just Woody Woodpecker laughter and constant smirks on Sonic.

He has always been an emotional character. Even in the Genesis days he showed plenty of emotions in his animations.

Nowadays it's handled so poorly it just comes off as awkward like I said when they do something besides hyucking and smirking with Sonic.

(Although I can give the BOOM cartoon for doing a better job with emotions/facial expressions)

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That Super one I admit seems odd, especially since they've got away with tons of emotions before and after. Even games and Boom Sonic have plenty of emotions. Are you sure that one was mandated. There have been actions where it was simply Ian going 'better I do it this way to be safe' than SEGA outright demanding it.

The crying one seems limited, Sonic HAS cried just subtle crying. In fairness the arc in question was a ridiculously morbid concept of his children being erased from existence. They got away with putting the SEGA cast in so much absurd crap in that arc that the crying seems a petty detail.

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Just now, E-122-Psi said:

Is that mod legit? I've seen a Sally mod for Gens, but it uses a different more basic looking model.

ohh sadly the one that Rapha knight uses its only for her own..

she hasn't released it to let other people use it.... XD 

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I have to say that...honestly, I think another issue with this plan is that, even with their great new Sega-accurate designs and power sets, and even though I like them, to me, the Freedom Fighters don't feel quite strong enough as characters. Personally, even when it comes to the comics, I'm happy to see the SatAM/Archie characters fall into the background and for Sega characters to take the spotlight.

Why? Primarily because the Freedom Fighters just aren't distinct and evocative enough. Most Sega Sonic characters fill a pretty distinct role that's entirely their own. Each one is pretty different. Even in the case of Tails, Knuckles, and Amy, who are all "Sonic's friends", there are clear differences: Tails is Sonic's best friend and sidekick, Knuckles is a friendly rival who also has his own independent goals (Master Emerald guarding and whatnot), and Amy Rose is the wannabe love interest. But as for the Freedom Fighters...Antoine is a Freedom Fighter, Bunnie is a Freedom Fighter, Rotor is another Freedom Fighter? The only one who seems particularly distinct is Sally, who plays a leadership role. In SatAM, this made sense because they were a resistance movement and you wanted to show they had numbers, and it's okay if the characters are a bit on the interchangeable side. But in the modern context, where they can be roughly approximated as a "superhero team", it's pretty weak. I mean, in "actual" superhero teams, there's usually something more than that, such as interesting team dynamics or heroes who have their own distinct superheroing careers, experiences, viewpoints, etc. But the FF's don't seem to have that. The character dynamics are pretty underwhelming, and it's hard to think about much that gives each individual character a special role in the story. They're just like, "Freedom Fighters". They're not quite interchangeable, but they're a bit too close to that for my tastes.

And in terms of personality, they just don't grab me in the way many Sega characters do. Tails is smart and active while also being modest and gentle compared to the others, Knuckles is loyal and serious and also a gullible hothead, Amy is obsessive and strong-willed but has a compassionate heart that can bring out the best in people. The Freedom Fighters...Antoine has a French accent, Bunnie has a Southern accent, Rotor is a techie?? Okay, yeah, I'm clearly exaggerating, but it just feels a little harder to distill the personalities of the Freedom Fighters into a pure, powerful essence, if that makes any sense. I know they have some great personality lurking inside them, but it seems like most of the time it's not brought out, and this combines with the redundancy of their roles to make them seem relatively dull.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Freedom Fighters. It's just that, frankly, I like the Sega crew significantly more, and I also feel like they're more marketable in general as a result of their traits. Not only are they already better-known, it's easier for them to catch people's attention. They feel more "one of a kind" and not just relatively generic members of a relatively generic group. And that's part of the reason why the idea of a spin-off/app game based on them and other Archiexclusive characters. Maybe I'm exaggerating, maybe they could be more popular than I think, but that's the way I see it. Why spend time, money and resources on these more little-known and less memorable characters when you could be spending time, money and resources on, well, more well-known and memorable characters?

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6 hours ago, Detective Mikgenes said:

Well it IS Sonic's character and personalty. You see, Sonic pretty much is strong character in terms of emotions and is not quick to get emotional and when he does, it's usually off camera or shown in a different way. No need for him to shed tears. The way he shows emotions in the games especially in the storybook series has tugged at my heartstrings more than him sobbing would ever do. 

I'm all for giving Sonic his own unique mannerisms in regards to grieving and expressing his emotions, as that can really flesh out the character.  I don't agree that forbidding him from showing off his emotions on camera indicates his strength, though, as much as flattens his character considerably.  A strong character isn't one that never cries; a strong character is one that perseveres even when it hurts.  Even characters whose strength is their primary trait, such as Superman, are often known within their respective fanbases for delivering very poignant internal and external dilemmas that force them to question many aspects about themselves and often times, and the creators don't shy away from showing exactly how they handle this. which can range from silent contemplation to angry outbursts to less-than-modest displays of tears.

I appreciate the storybook games for capturing the sensitive and humble side of Sonic that cares about the emotional well-being of his friends, and while they do give Sonic a much broader range of emotional expression, I don't feel like Sonic's emotions (as far as I remember) are the stronger part of the story.  The way Sonic wishes for a mountain of handkerchiefs for Sharah in Secret Rings was really sweet and beautiful, but that again shows Sonic's responses to the emotions of other people, which is extremely powerful, but not extremely personal in the same way it would be if Sonic were handling something that challenged him emotionally (death of a loved one, etc.).

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9 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

The crying one seems limited, Sonic HAS cried just subtle crying. In fairness the arc in question was a ridiculously morbid concept of his children being erased from existence. They got away with putting the SEGA cast in so much absurd crap in that arc that the crying seems a petty detail.

Wait, I'm confused. When has Sonic ever cried in the games?

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59 minutes ago, Azul said:

Wait, I'm confused. When has Sonic ever cried in the games?

They're referring to the comics in this instance.  Sonic has never cried in the games due to Sega's restrictions on Sonic's emotions, which is what we're saying is sort of limiting to the character.

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28 minutes ago, Tara said:

They're referring to the comics in this instance.  Sonic has never cried in the games due to Sega's restrictions on Sonic's emotions, which is what we're saying is sort of limiting to the character.

Ah, I see. I was out of context. 

On that note, it doesn't matter to me how much Sonic cries. However, I've read a decade and some change ago that Sonic hates tears and have held that belief since then. So if he does cry, it better damn well be something worth crying over. Something super heavy. Like the planet wide banning of chili dogs.

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1 minute ago, Azul said:

Ah, I see. I was out of context. 

On that note, it doesn't matter to me how much Sonic cries. However, I've read a decade and some change ago that Sonic hates tears and have held that belief since then. So if he does cry, it better damn well be something worth crying over. Something super heavy.

Sonic's character has changed considerably since then, so I think we can abolish that rule.  One of the most emotionally sincere moments in the series the aforemention "mountain of handkerchiefs" line in Secret Rings, wherein he tells Sharah to cry as much as she needs to in order to get over the loss.

Like the planet wide banning of chili dogs.

Too dark for a Sonic game, imo =/

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...Was I the only one who found that handkerchief scene in Secret Rings rather cheesy? I mean, in concept, it was a good idea to finish on, but I remember laughing and cringing at the line, and the rather silly delivery of it, rather than actually feeling bad. Being honest, I prefer how Ian has done it in which he doesn't specifically cry, but we see some serious shots of Sonic sad, or depressed that still gives us the same impact without making the scene look weird or have a cheesy line about it. Sometimes a single shot can be enough to show a character's pain, rather than a full scene with them in tears. 

For example, I found something like this:

tumblr_lyeh25JnvG1rnsvazo1_500.jpg

Far more cheesier than something like #235 where Sonic only sheds one tear, and states plainly that Silver was correct that The Freedom Fighters were dead.

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I don't think anyone here will deny it was cheesy. But it's ultimately something Sonic would do when he sees a friend in distress or sad. He may have a dislike for tears (which is probably why he almost never wears his heart on his sleeves) but I think it shows a lot of maturity on his part to allow someone to grieve on their own terms especially with Sharha in this instance. For once, telling her to just "cheer up!" wouldn't have been a wise thing to say.

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In fairness game Sonic is capable of emotion without tears, take Lost World. It's a bit understated, but he's not just 100% stoic or smartalecy. Boom Sonic also has plenty of outbursts.

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^Quite true. A character can express sadness without having resort to tears in any capacity. I think the problem is that some people feel said character *needs* to cry otherwise it doesn't count or will get labeled as "too stoic."

 

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