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*(What If We Got A Satam/Archie Runners Game?)*


Chris Knopps

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36 minutes ago, DarkLight said:

I don't think anyone here will deny it was cheesy. But it's ultimately something Sonic would do when he sees a friend in distress or sad. He may have a dislike for tears (which is probably why he almost never wears his heart on his sleeves) but I think it shows a lot of maturity on his part to allow someone to grieve on their own terms especially with Sharha in this instance. For once, telling her to just "cheer up!" wouldn't have been a wise thing to say.

Don't get me wrong, it was a strong decision on the part of Sonic's character, but I can't help but feel the line in general, and Sonic's delivery of the line could have been far less cheesy.

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1 hour ago, DarkLight said:

^Quite true. A character can express sadness without having resort to tears in any capacity. I think the problem is that some people feel said character *needs* to cry otherwise it doesn't count or will get labeled as "too stoic."

 

To expand, there is more to emotions than tears, it's how it's presented and if it's believable. Sonic is the type of guy who doesn't wear his emotions on his sleeve, plus he dislikes tears because it means the person isn't happy. 

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12 hours ago, Tara said:

Sonic's character has changed considerably since then, so I think we can abolish that rule.  One of the most emotionally sincere moments in the series the aforemention "mountain of handkerchiefs" line in Secret Rings, wherein he tells Sharah to cry as much as she needs to in order to get over the loss.

Guess you have a point there. I'm still under the impression that he'd rather not see his friends cry but understands when its appropriate to just let it out. I like to think of him as highly emotionally intelligent.

12 hours ago, Tara said:

Too dark for a Sonic game, imo =/

You're right. I took it too far. I'm sorry...

In regards towards Sonic's level of chessyness, Sonic is practically synomyous with cheesy.

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In fairness tears aren't always a perfect display of emotion. Archie milks that cow a lot and a fair few times it comes off as angsty or bland rather than that powerful. I mean yeah, some like Sally are 'Cry Cute' types but after a while, it's only one generic way to get out emotions. There needs to be personality there as well.

I feel like Sonic's woeful moments in the likes of Lost World did more for him than just crying his eyes out would do.

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18 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

I have to say that...honestly, I think another issue with this plan is that, even with their great new Sega-accurate designs and power sets, and even though I like them, to me, the Freedom Fighters don't feel quite strong enough as characters. Personally, even when it comes to the comics, I'm happy to see the SatAM/Archie characters fall into the background and for Sega characters to take the spotlight.

Why? Primarily because the Freedom Fighters just aren't distinct and evocative enough. Most Sega Sonic characters fill a pretty distinct role that's entirely their own. Each one is pretty different. Even in the case of Tails, Knuckles, and Amy, who are all "Sonic's friends", there are clear differences: Tails is Sonic's best friend and sidekick, Knuckles is a friendly rival who also has his own independent goals (Master Emerald guarding and whatnot), and Amy Rose is the wannabe love interest. But as for the Freedom Fighters...Antoine is a Freedom Fighter, Bunnie is a Freedom Fighter, Rotor is another Freedom Fighter?

Dude, really? You can tell their differences with just a simple look at them or seeing them in action: Antoine is a cowardly lion, Bunnie is a cyborg and heavy hitter, and Rotor is an inventor/mechanic. It's really baffling that you describe them as just 'Freedom Fighter' and nothing else given everything they've done.

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The only one who seems particularly distinct is Sally, who plays a leadership role. In SatAM, this made sense because they were a resistance movement and you wanted to show they had numbers, and it's okay if the characters are a bit on the interchangeable side. But in the modern context, where they can be roughly approximated as a "superhero team", it's pretty weak. I mean, in "actual" superhero teams, there's usually something more than that, such as interesting team dynamics or heroes who have their own distinct superheroing careers, experiences, viewpoints, etc. But the FF's don't seem to have that. The character dynamics are pretty underwhelming, and it's hard to think about much that gives each individual character a special role in the story. They're just like, "Freedom Fighters". They're not quite interchangeable, but they're a bit too close to that for my tastes.

And in terms of personality, they just don't grab me in the way many Sega characters do. Tails is smart and active while also being modest and gentle compared to the others, Knuckles is loyal and serious and also a gullible hothead, Amy is obsessive and strong-willed but has a compassionate heart that can bring out the best in people. The Freedom Fighters...Antoine has a French accent, Bunnie has a Southern accent, Rotor is a techie?? Okay, yeah, I'm clearly exaggerating, but it just feels a little harder to distill the personalities of the Freedom Fighters into a pure, powerful essence, if that makes any sense.

 

You're actually either ignoring their personalities or not putting any effort into examining them here, because a simple look at those characters says far more than "Freedom Fighter": Bunnie is a southern belle with the biggest heart of the team while being a VERY heavy bruiser, Antoine is a cowardly lion who nonetheless makes great shows of bravery, and while Rotor is a techie he's also very creative (often TOO creative, if complex some of his devices can be). If you can detail Knuckles, Tails, and Amy, it's not hard to do for others.

And they're FAR from even being "quite" interchangeable - they're far and apart from each other that you can't just trade Antoine's, Bunnie's, or Rotor's positions with each other and expect them to work the same way. Because for one, Ant and Rotor aren't cyborgs, Ant and Bunnie aren't mechanics, and Bunnie and Rotor aren't as afraid to charge into tense situations as Antoine is (hence why it was much more shocking when he nearly sacrificed himself in the old continuity, compared to anyone else). And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

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I know they have some great personality lurking inside them, but it seems like most of the time it's not brought out, and this combines with the redundancy of their roles to make them seem relatively dull.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Freedom Fighters. It's just that, frankly, I like the Sega crew significantly more, and I also feel like they're more marketable in general as a result of their traits. Not only are they already better-known, it's easier for them to catch people's attention. They feel more "one of a kind" and not just relatively generic members of a relatively generic group.

Define and explain the term "generic," because people throw that word around so much to mean so many things to the point of making that term meaningless as a form of critque, and the same can easily- no, ESPECIALLY be said of the Sega crew as well if I were to play Devil's Advocate here.

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Why spend time, money and resources on these more little-known and less memorable characters when you could be spending time, money and resources on, well, more well-known and memorable characters?

For the same reasons any company would pour such effort into an endeavor: To profit off them, especially if they wanted to rake in on their nostalgic value. Because why else would they do so if they thought it would be worthwhile? It's not unknown for companies to go for and revive older and lesser known characters if they have a desire to make use of them.

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I think he was thinking more about individual roles and motives, that's why Freedom Fighter popped up for all of them since the comics' plot kinda enforces all the heroes into this united role compared to the games and other interpretations do at times. Sally is a princess and leader as mentioned. Rotor is a techie, so likely a hobbyist in such, but that does make him feel redundant against Tails, who has the same desires and at times even that same sense of over ambition. Antoine and Bunnie don't have much however, they're just the wedded couple who happen to be Freedom Fighters. Okay Bunnie wanted to be a hairstylist at one point but that's hardly much to work on.

I will admit sometimes the games themselves forget this development in favour of just making everyone Sonic's friends (most infamously Knuckles), but most of the Freedom Fighters have sparsely got to be much else. Most of the main SEGA cast have got at least one or two defining stories which involve a bigger more individual goal than just 'stop Eggman'.

Truthfully though, I could barely remember Antoine being that cautious or cowardly pre reboot aside from 'hey remember his butt monkey SatAm days' quips. Post reboot has more nods to it, but it's more just superficial shots of him quivering or looking a little unnerved than affecting his actual actions or effectiveness in any way. Same for Sally's cautious, meticulous attitude despite now having near equal cases of being outright reckless or cocky. That was sometimes the problem with these characters, what could be their key attributes and quirks slowly just became informed (though again it's not like the games haven't done that at times).

 

We are just talking about Runners, right? Not exactly a game huge on personality development.

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7 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Don't get me wrong, it was a strong decision on the part of Sonic's character, but I can't help but feel the line in general, and Sonic's delivery of the line could have been far less cheesy.

I think a large part of that is the voice work.  Jason Griffith improved a lot in the timeframe from 2007-2009, but he still couldn't save Sonic from sounding a bit like a dork.

Though honestly, a little bit of cheese is really charming and sweet in its own right.  Though Jason Griffith does excess on it. XD

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A recurring problem with Griffith doing soft or emotional moments is that he suffers from 'Gregory Peck Syndrome' in that he tends to punctuate the final word of every SENTence. So it sounds like he's perpetually being astonished or sarCASTic. :P

 

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11 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

A recurring problem with Griffith doing soft or emotional moments is that he suffers from 'Gregory Peck Syndrome' in that he tends to punctuate the final word of every SENTence. So it sounds like he's perpetually being astonished or sarCASTic. :P

 

That and I really just don't think his voice sounds like it should come out of Sonic's mouth, but that's just me. XD

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12 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

I think he was thinking more about individual roles and motives, that's why Freedom Fighter popped up for all of them since the comics' plot kinda enforces all the heroes into this united role compared to the games and other interpretations do at times.

...

Which was what I was pointing out over what he was completely overlooking. And even counting motives, again, they're far too different from each other to be interchangable given that they come from different backgrounds, have entirely different desires, and approach tasks entirely different.

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Sally is a princess and leader as mentioned. Rotor is a techie, so likely a hobbyist in such, but that does make him feel redundant against Tails, who has the same desires and at times even that same sense of over ambition. Antoine and Bunnie don't have much however, they're just the wedded couple who happen to be Freedom Fighters. Okay Bunnie wanted to be a hairstylist at one point but that's hardly much to work on.

So, again, disregard the fact that Bunny is a Cyborg and finding value in being the team's physically strongest member, with the added detail of her being one who misses the feeling of her old limbs, then? Or Antoine's entire character development that transformed him from coward to a much braver and competent fighter even as arguably the weakest active member of the team (or the fact that the guy is a swordsman at the very least)?

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I will admit sometimes the games themselves forget this development in favour of just making everyone Sonic's friends (most infamously Knuckles), but most of the Freedom Fighters have sparsely got to be much else. Most of the main SEGA cast have got at least one or two defining stories which involve a bigger more individual goal than just 'stop Eggman'.

Such as?

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Truthfully though, I could barely remember Antoine being that cautious or cowardly pre reboot aside from 'hey remember his butt monkey SatAm days' quips. Post reboot has more nods to it, but it's more just superficial shots of him quivering or looking a little unnerved than affecting his actual actions or effectiveness in any way. Same for Sally's cautious, meticulous attitude despite now having near equal cases of being outright reckless or cocky. That was sometimes the problem with these characters, what could be their key attributes and quirks slowly just became informed (though again it's not like the games haven't done that at times).

Probably because the thing called "Character Development" allowed them to grow out of those traits and develop into something else as a result of overcoming their struggles and weaknesses and gradually gaining new traits as a result. Pre-Reboot Antoine being the biggest example of this, because he became much braver and less of a nuisance over time, and even with those nods post-reboot he still faces danger despite his reservations as oppose to how he was in the past.

If it wasn't obvious already after all these years,  these are not static characters, they're dynamic ones - they aren't going to remain the exact same way as time passes on and they face the barriers affecting them whether inside or outside of them.

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Let's take Heroes then. Only Team Sonic were just on a mission to stop Eggman. Chaotix and Rouge were after profit, Rose were after their friends (with the side motive of finding Sonic on Amy's part), Omega wanted to stop Eggman, but solely as a revenge scheme and proof of superiority, and Shadow wanted info on his past. Adventure 1 similarly only had Sonic solely on a stop Eggman course. X and Boom have also done tons of side stories involving the cast having ambitions in life besides just stopping the current threat.

I never saw the development in Archie as them 'gaining new ones' however, just diluting the ones they had because their arcs were resolved and not a lot of new character was put in it's place. Their quirks were just replaced by standard heroic qualities such as bravery and better competence. Some other characters are less evolved and more inconsistent, eg. Sally, who since getting rid of her quirks such as her pompousness and huffy temper, has been stuck getting compressed vices which are often contradictory to her usual established character and ethics.

I've saw this problem with the games cast as well at times (eg. certain eras where Amy or Tails were 'matured' in a way that made them blander and less vibrant) though there have been better cases of development out there (eg. Boom!Tails is independent and smarter, but not to the point his original personality is completely gone, and he has other quirks developed so he still sticks out without needing to be dependent on Sonic, eg. his over obsession with making devices, same for Boom!Amy not being all about Sonic but still having flaws in her independency).

Character Development isn't just about taking away a character's defining flaws and making them more generically competent. Hell even making them more competent can come from said quirks, but the Freedom Fighters too often, just come off as this dully uniform bunch of soldiers.

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This topic is still going? If this is gonna be a heavily disscussed thread then shouldn't this be Archie/Non Game characters in the games in general? Just saying.

And why randomly Runners? Can't you just talk about the games in general?

Well, I might as well give my thoughts on this. I absolutely loathed the idea of any non game Sonic character making his/her way into the main series, it was so annoying to see the line-up of the Sonic cast in any form of fan-work just to see idiots constantly saying "WHEREZ SALLY/COZMO", "WHEREZ SALLY/COZMO". It's ridiculous how desperate people wanted a bunch of original characters donut steel in practically everything, the pre reboot Freedom Fighters started to grow on me some more but I honestly still gave less than a crap about them.

I don't remember or even know when I started to read the post reboot comics ( I didn't even know there was a reboot) but as I became interested in the new comics and started reading them online, I feel in love with their new designs and enjoyed their presence in the current universe, because for the very first time. They ACTUALLY looked official SEGA Sonic characters who'd blend in with the game cast perfectly.

So the discussion? Not they weren't likely to begin with but with Runners sadly gone, their chances are pretty much -100%. I would be interested in seeing them playable in the games thanks to the amazing reboot but that's obviously unlikely since I'm guessing SEGA doesn't care about the comics.

Even if this doesn't happen, (I'm not expecting it to) one of the biggest changes I would do the to Sonic franchise is to switch the game canon and post reboot Archie canon because obviously, it would make much more sense that way. I don't need to explain that not only because I'm lazy but because it should pretty much speak for itself.B)

And just for the record, I actually really did like the pre reboot Freedom Fighters but I didn't care about them anymore.

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7 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

Let's take Heroes then. Only Team Sonic were just on a mission to stop Eggman. Chaotix and Rouge were after profit, Rose were after their friends (with the side motive of finding Sonic on Amy's part), Omega wanted to stop Eggman, but solely as a revenge scheme and proof of superiority, and Shadow wanted info on his past. Adventure 1 similarly only had Sonic solely on a stop Eggman course. X and Boom have also done tons of side stories involving the cast having ambitions in life besides just stopping the current threat.

Meanwhile, Bunnie and Antoine got married and had a honeymoon (interrupted by Kukkus), Nicole began to grow into some far more than a machine, and Rotor left his home in search of a new one more accepting of his talents. Not really seeing any weight to the FF's not having stories other than "stop Eggman." And don't get anyone started on the side stories that occurred after Eggman came back from insanity and was in hiding, like Bunnie meeting her uncle who joined Eggman to protect his people. Or the entire Mecha Sally arc where, instead of "stop Eggman," Sally was serving him with utmost obedience.

Again, you're just disregarding what is there for the FF.

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I never saw the development in Archie as them 'gaining new ones' however, just diluting the ones they had because their arcs were resolved and not a lot of new character was put in it's place. Their quirks were just replaced by standard heroic qualities such as bravery and better competence. Some other characters are less evolved and more inconsistent, eg. Sally, who since getting rid of her quirks such as her pompousness and huffy temper, has been stuck getting compressed vices which are often contradictory to her usual established character and ethics.

Character Development isn't just about taking away a character's defining flaws and making them more generically competent. Hell even making them more competent can come from said quirks, but the Freedom Fighters too often, just come off as this dully uniform bunch of soldiers.

You mean to tell me that Bunnie is just a generic hero despite one of the key things about her (thanks to her status as a cyborg) is that she's one of the more feminine characters, yet bluntly charges forward and single-minded punch or blast things, one which was turned against her when the Iron Queen used her powers to control her cybernetics? That blunt mindset of hers also becoming an even bigger liability when she temporarily lost them and couldn't fight the same way as she tried to protect Elias and was completely disregarded as a threat which would have led to her joining her uncle as a cyborg likely on Eggman's side? Oh, there's some standard heroic qualities, but where's the competence here? Heck, what good did that bravery and competence due when Rotor had his back broken and all he could do was serve as a politician prior to gaining a supersuit? What good did that political power do when even as a politician he wielded no more power than the other councilors, who could render anything opposing thought he had moot with a majority vote?

Which begs an even bigger question: how is all of this not a lot of new character? You never saw development as gaining new ones mainly because you've been disregarding it as just "standard heroics" because they're not quirky to your liking, and that's always been the sole thing you focus upon with a character as oppose to everything else. We've had this discussion plenty of times before, a character is not defined solely by their quirks. Doing just that is actually tantamount to being "generic" in itself - generic in the sense that its the same common thing you see in just about every work of fiction when you focus only on their personality. Do you have any idea how many huffy and pompous female characters there are saturating fictional works, or even just the base personalities of the Game cast alone?

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I think that's the issue however, the games cast are quirkier and thus more vibrant. They stand out more stand alone, thus why they can be adapted into so many different medias and still retain prominent defining aspects of their character. If you take away a lot of the story premise and continuity surrounding the Freedom Fighters, you haven't got a lot left. Fair enough it can be called more subtle development and not every one can be outgoing and goofy in personality, but if that's the case, what good are they in a medium that has barely any recurring development and has an entirely different tone and premise (especially since we're talking about Runners)? Hell a lot of fans loathe the current writing of the games. What makes them think just using Archie's concepts or characters will improve it?

Quirks aren't everything, but they are big building block in defining a character, especially if you plan on transferring them from premise to a different one.

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1 hour ago, E-122-Psi said:

I think that's the issue however, the games cast are quirkier and thus more vibrant. They stand out more stand alone, thus why they can be adapted into so many different medias and still retain prominent defining aspects of their character. If you take away a lot of the story premise and continuity surrounding the Freedom Fighters, you haven't got a lot left.

That's not really true considering the reboot did just that and took away a lot of things about the Freedom Fighters in the old continuity, from their origins and backgrounds, while giving them an entirely new continuity, new story premise, and even a different tone around them to work with, one much more closely aligned to the games I should add. Yet they still retain a number of traits that people recognize them for, the same way they would recognize that of the game cast.

Nevermind that ever since Heroes grouped them into teams, the game cast has done less standing out as individual characters and are looked at as a collective mass no different from that of the Freedom Fighters. Most prominently Team Sonic where some people are more than happy to disregard Knuckles being an individual who stands apart with his own desires and motives just so he can complete the trio and be around. So that argument doesn't really stand up.

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Fair enough it can be called more subtle development and not every one can be outgoing and goofy in personality, but if that's the case, what good are they in a medium that has barely any recurring development and has an entirely different tone and premise (especially since we're talking about Runners)? Hell a lot of fans loathe the current writing of the games. What makes them think just using Archie's concepts or characters will improve it?

Quirks aren't everything, but they are big building block in defining a character, especially if you plan on transferring them from premise to a different one.

The same as the other characters already in it? Otherwise, what does that say about the medium itself? Like for starters, what is the premise behind Runners?

I doubt it would improve anything (or worsen it) given how things are if they're included, but adapting other concepts and characters works both ways, dude. The fact that a lot of fans hate the current writing of the games goes to show that quirkier and more vibrant characters aren't the same as strong, interesting, and deep characters that make people gravitate to them - doesn't matter how quirky a character is if there's nothing else to them that holds them up, nor is it always something that big of a building block that will always adhered to in transferring to something with a different premise if the games themselves haven't already shown that post-Unleashed or arguably Colors.

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9 hours ago, Dan-Dude said:

This topic is still going? If this is gonna be a heavily disscussed thread then shouldn't this be Archie/Non Game characters in the games in general? Just saying.

And why randomly Runners? Can't you just talk about the games in general?

Well, I might as well give my thoughts on this. I absolutely loathed the idea of any non game Sonic character making his/her way into the main series, it was so annoying to see the line-up of the Sonic cast in any form of fan-work just to see idiots constantly saying "WHEREZ SALLY/COZMO", "WHEREZ SALLY/COZMO". It's ridiculous how desperate people wanted a bunch of original characters donut steel in practically everything, the pre reboot Freedom Fighters started to grow on me some more but I honestly still gave less than a crap about them.

I don't remember or even know when I started to read the post reboot comics ( I didn't even know there was a reboot) but as I became interested in the new comics and started reading them online, I feel in love with their new designs and enjoyed their presence in the current universe, because for the very first time. They ACTUALLY looked official SEGA Sonic characters who'd blend in with the game cast perfectly.

So the discussion? Not they weren't likely to begin with but with Runners sadly gone, their chances are pretty much -100%. I would be interested in seeing them playable in the games thanks to the amazing reboot but that's obviously unlikely since I'm guessing SEGA doesn't care about the comics.

It's also good because in a game like Runners you could introduce them into the game franchise, giving each a unique character bio as Runners has for its characters, instead of having to worry about a plot to introduce them. Just play as them, read the bio's, and there you go.

Even if this doesn't happen, (I'm not expecting it to) one of the biggest changes I would do the to Sonic franchise is to switch the game canon and post reboot Archie canon because obviously, it would make much more sense that way. I don't need to explain that not only because I'm lazy but because it should pretty much speak for itself.B)

And just for the record, I actually really did like the pre reboot Freedom Fighters but I didn't care about them anymore.

Don't you know? That tends to happen when I post a thread. lol (Granted one or two have been shut down because of TOO much posting to where things get crazy...)

But in regards to the second bold line, because I feel a side title, or rather, spin-off if you will, would be the best choice in introducing Archie cast to the game franchise, especially one with game play such as Runners.

This seems like the wiser option instead of putting them in a main/big game in general first. Test with a side/spin-off and then see if the worth in doing more exists.

It's also a better idea because in a spin-off title you can introduce them as Runners did for its cast, through bio's and game play. It's a simplistic route that avoids the need for plot altogether, and consumers can decide if they like the characters through said game play and bio's.

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18 hours ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

That's not really true considering the reboot did just that and took away a lot of things about the Freedom Fighters in the old continuity, from their origins and backgrounds, while giving them an entirely new continuity, new story premise, and even a different tone around them to work with, one much more closely aligned to the games I should add. Yet they still retain a number of traits that people recognize them for, the same way they would recognize that of the game cast.

Not really, it only erased the Penders related content, otherwise it just streamlined the old continuity and gave it a SEGA gloss. Nearly all of their backstory established from Satam is still there so they are still working on that basic ground. They were still attacked and conquered by Eggman since childhood, had their families and homes taken from them, and forced to form a rebellion. Sally is still the princess of their hometown, Antoine is still her former royal guard and married to Bunnie, and Rotor is still their techie, with them all having the same group wise dynamic.

You could say it'd be possible for SEGA to adapt SOME of that backstory at least (par the extended timeline up to their childhood of course) but there's no guarantee. Sally could easily end up a wizard from the planet Rhombus whose never even met Bunnie and Antoine since they are rivalling time travelling super villains with Rotor as a technophobic hermit.

 

18 hours ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

The same as the other characters already in it? Otherwise, what does that say about the medium itself? Like for starters, what is the premise behind Runners?

I doubt it would improve anything (or worsen it) given how things are if they're included, but adapting other concepts and characters works both ways, dude. The fact that a lot of fans hate the current writing of the games goes to show that quirkier and more vibrant characters aren't the same as strong, interesting, and deep characters that make people gravitate to them - doesn't matter how quirky a character is if there's nothing else to them that holds them up, nor is it always something that big of a building block that will always adhered to in transferring to something with a different premise if the games themselves haven't already shown that post-Unleashed or arguably Colors.

People hate the current writing for more reasons than it being quirky. You can still have depthful characters that are quirky (eg. MLP:FIM). There's already a thread dedicated to many fans' beefs with Pontac and Griff's writing style, and I don't think these would go away just because they were made to write for different characters and moods. It could end up any fresh hell akin to the example I wrote above or worse.

I could argue the same can be said about a character having a role or dynamic story but nothing else to hold them up. Maybe there is more personality there than I'm letting on, but I just feel the Freedom Fighters too often fail to be entertaining about any of it. They're too exposition heavy and subtle to point of being kinda boring. They're the same reason Mickey Mouse got sidelined for Donald and Goofy, other characters can take the same situation and make more entertainment value out of it. You can say the fussy control freak Sally was predictable, but it's more than the vanilla-Sonic she is now, performing reckless and over bold acts but with none of the foibles or vibrant qualities to make it half as interesting. At least she could do the former shtick well, she can never do Sonic's shtick better than Sonic.

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4 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

Not really, it only erased the Penders related content, otherwise it just streamlined the old continuity and gave it a SEGA gloss. Nearly all of their backstory established from Satam is still there so they are still working on that basic ground. They were still attacked and conquered by Eggman since childhood, had their families and homes taken from them, and forced to form a rebellion. Sally is still the princess of their hometown, Antoine is still her former royal guard and married to Bunnie, and Rotor is still their techie, with them all having the same group wise dynamic.

Which is still a completely different premise and tone by virtue of aligning further towards the games and and adding its content into it, explaining their origins in a completely different manner than the original continuity: Bunnie was injured as opposed to being tossed into a roboticizer by SWATbots, Rotor came from an abusive family which wasn't the case before, Nicole was born from her creator failing to save his daughter as opposed to being from the future (or the much more tragic original backstory where she would have been brain uploaded by Eggman), and Antoine was part of a foreign exchange program. All of this on top of the same exact premise as the games where Eggman is a would-be world conquerer they're trying to stop whereas he already conquered most of the world that they're trying to set free.

Again, you're ignoring everything else about who they are -Their titles and dynamic are the same, but what built them up now is completely different.

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You could say it'd be possible for SEGA to adapt SOME of that backstory at least (par the extended timeline up to their childhood of course) but there's no guarantee. Sally could easily end up a wizard from the planet Rhombus whose never even met Bunnie and Antoine since they are rivalling time travelling super villains with Rotor as a technophobic hermit.

Yeah, kinda like how they did the game cast in Boom. Not sure that would turn out well. Or they could present them in the same manner as they currently are, which is basically "SatAM characters if they were brought into the games."

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People hate the current writing for more reasons than it being quirky. You can still have depthful characters that are quirky (eg. MLP:FIM). There's already a thread dedicated to many fans' beefs with Pontac and Griff's writing style, and I don't think these would go away just because they were made to write for different characters and moods. It could end up any fresh hell akin to the example I wrote above or worse.

I never said that being quirky was the main reason they hated the current writting. I said that the fact that the hate it goes to show that being quirky and vibrant doesn't mean they're strong, interesting, or deep. Nor did I say that having these other characters and different tone would improve or worsen things if they were brought along into something like Runners.

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I could argue the same can be said about a character having a role or dynamic story but nothing else to hold them up. Maybe there is more personality there than I'm letting on, but I just feel the Freedom Fighters too often fail to be entertaining about any of it. They're too exposition heavy and subtle to point of being kinda boring. They're the same reason Mickey Mouse got sidelined for Donald and Goofy, other characters can take the same situation and make more entertainment value out of it. You can say the fussy control freak Sally was predictable, but it's more than the vanilla-Sonic she is now, performing reckless and over bold acts but with none of the foibles or vibrant qualities to make it half as interesting. At least she could do the former shtick well, she can never do Sonic's shtick better than Sonic.

And that predictability in itself is boring as hell - if I already know what'll happen with that character, that's basically a spoiler coming a mile away compared to the "vanilla-Sonic" who has far more surprises up her sleeve by comparison whenever, or come off in such an obnoxious manner that she becomes less of a likable character by statically being a fussy control freak as opposed to her much more moderate and dynamic version.

Just because a character has quirks does not make that character any greater than you make it out to be, nor does quirky mean "entertaining." You know what it can mean if there's nothing else about them? One-note, monotonous, lacking in variety and substance, the kind of thing that leads to a character being predictable at at risk of becoming stale, trite, and overdone. It is not the sole thing you focus on while belittling to other traits like their background, interaction with other characters, social status, abilities, limitations, and individual values that make up their entire being, especially in a setting that changes over time because the characters are going to be affected and will change as a result.

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