*(Sonic Adventure 2 - Exaggerations Meet Their Maker)*

[PandoloFox]

Just now, Wraith said:

If you're reviewing something in an ongoing series, some comparison to what came before needs to be provided. Odds are your audience played and liked the previous thing so you need to tell them what's different, for the better and for the worse. Judging it and comparing it to past games in the series shouldn't be a bad thing. 

I agree with that, hence why im not defending that point.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

If you're reviewing something in an ongoing series, some comparison to what came before needs to be provided. Odds are your audience played and liked the previous thing so you need to tell them what's different, for the better and for the worse. Judging it and comparing it to past games in the series shouldn't be a bad thing. 

Being honest, it is when it comes to comparing 3D games to the Genesis titles. That needs to stop.

Whip a different horse so to say.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

Being honest, it is when it comes to comparing 3D games to the Genesis titles. That needs to stop.

Why though?

[Wraith]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Being honest, it is when it comes to comparing 3D games to the Genesis titles. That needs to stop.

Why? This happens with every series that had to transition from 2D to 3D.

 

If the 3D games fail to bring the elements of the genesis games into 3D, that should be noted, since the series is a completely different beast at that point.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Wraith said:

Why? This happens with every series that had to transition from 2D to 3D.

 

If the 3D games fail to bring the elements of the genesis games into 3D, that should be noted, since the series is a completely different beast at that point.

Going by most views on the franchise every 3D game has failed to do so, therefore 3D games should stick with being judged with past 3D titles because you can't judge what is essentially two franchises, it's like judging BOOM based on the main series.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

it's like judging BOOM based on the main series.

Completely reasonable, then?

It's not that anyone expects 3D Sonic to be a perfect match to 2D Sonic, or Boom to perfectly match main series Sonic. But if you want to be treated like a different series, you need to be a different series. Don't try to hitchhike on the popularity of an existing series and then be surprised when people don't like all the changes you've made.

[PandoloFox]

 

 

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

10 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Being honest, it is when it comes to comparing 3D games to the Genesis titles. That needs to stop.

Whip a different horse so to say.

... Imma have to add another note to this orchestra and ask "why?".

Especially sense they have the ablity to program the Genesis-styled gameplay into a 3D title. We arent saying that all games should be like Sonic 1 and why we are comparing them isnt that, its just that the Genesis titles have a consisted gameplay and identity, something todays 3D Sonics lack.

[PandoloFox]

Ignore that last post of mine, i dont know how to erase quotes.

Anyway, some things from the 2D games can be compared to the 3D ones. Such as tone, level progress and etc. But 3D is different from 2D, expecting it to play out exactly like the classics would be a bit much. Though I havnt seen many that expects that.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Mikyeong said:

... Imma have to add another note to this orchestra and ask "why?".

Especially sense they have the ablity to program the Genesis-styled gameplay into a 3D title. We arent saying that all games should be like Sonic 1 and why we are comparing them isnt that, its just that the Genesis titles have a consisted gameplay and identity, something todays 3D Sonics lack.

Being honest the 3D games had that as well from 98-07/08 revolving Sonic himself. The multiple play styles in the games during that time revolved other characters while Sonic remained the same by and large.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Being honest the 3D games had that as well from 98-07/08 revolving Sonic himself. The multiple play styles in the games during that time revolved other characters while Sonic remained the same by and large.

Not really in my opinion. I mean Sonic Adventure and 2 did kinda have a core gameplay for Sonic but then it changed as we got into the boost trillogy and then to Lost World and Sonic Boom. His gameplay changes alot and never sticks to any core components in my opinion. I will say, and please someone correct me if I am wrong, that the boost trillogy though were pretty consistent as far as the boost goes (Unleashed, Generations and Colors)

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Mikyeong said:

Not really in my opinion. I mean Sonic Adventure and 2 did kinda have a core gameplay for Sonic but then it changed as we got into the boost trillogy and then to Lost World and Sonic Boom. His gameplay changes alot and never sticks to any core components in my opinion. I will say, and please someone correct me if I am wrong, that the boost trillogy though were pretty consistent as far as the boost goes (Unleashed, Generations and Colors)

I just said that Sonic game play in 3D was by and large consistent, from 98 to 07/08... Just said that... JUST... Said that. Not the WHOLE time, only until 07/08.

As far as the boost being consistent, that was messed up by wisps in my opinion.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Shit Im sorry, man. I need to learn how to read. 

[PandoloFox]

Just now, Mikyeong said:

Not really in my opinion. I mean Sonic Adventure and 2 did kinda have a core gameplay for Sonic but then it changed as we got into the boost trillogy and then to Lost World and Sonic Boom. His gameplay changes alot and never sticks to any core components in my opinion. I will say, and please someone correct me if I am wrong, that the boost trillogy though were pretty consistent as far as the boost goes (Unleashed, Generations and Colors)

I agree with this, cant deny that they changed it up a lot. 

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

Shit Im sorry, man. 

No worries, just emphasizing the main changes didn't happen until that time. It was... I believe the same time the story book games came out too. 07, 08... Feel free to correct me. but that's when things got out of hand.

Granted OTHER characters had by and large countless game play styles, but Sonic himself was always pretty consistent up until the point they said Solo-Sonic only and started going crazy with him too.

[PandoloFox]

I dont think most of the mechanic changes made were that big of a deal ( from a true to the character perspective ) in most of the games. The boost fits sonic, though I cant stand the actual mechanic. The team formation in heroes didnt feel like it wasnt something sonic and friends couldnt do either. Its natural to switch up the moves with newer games. Otherwise it would feel too much like the same thing.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, PandoloFox said:

I dont think most of the mechanic changes made were that big of a deal ( from a true to the character perspective ) in most of the games. The boost fits sonic, though I cant stand the actual mechanic. The team formation in heroes didnt feel like it wasnt something sonic and friends couldnt do either. Its natural to switch up the moves with newer games. Otherwise it would feel too much like the same thing.

To me that's what I liked about the hidden items/upgrades in SA and SA2, keep the same game play, but provide unlockable items to build onto it.

I preferred it to today's free range all you can barely handle buffet in every game.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

plus to be honest, i dont think the boost works in 2D or 3D. its fits Sonic and his personality yeah but it doesnt reallt work well with the game as it comes as a guilty cheap way to buy speed.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Mikyeong said:

plus to be honest, i dont think the boost works in 2D or 3D. its fits Sonic and his personality yeah but it doesnt reallt work well with the game as it comes as a guilty cheap way to buy speed.

Well... I loved it in the Rush games, as a handheld exclusive alternative it was bloody brilliant to me, but when they suddenly used it in EVERYTHING they released, yeah no... Handheld experience, good. Console experience, pass.

[Diogenes]

9 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Granted OTHER characters had by and large countless game play styles, but Sonic himself was always pretty consistent up until the point they said Solo-Sonic only and started going crazy with him too.

I don't entirely agree with that. Sonic had mostly the same moves and the same basic goal, but the underlying mechanics changed pretty significantly. He lost the ability to roll, the spindash got stiffer, the homing attack lost its momentum, the grinding mechanics went through a few iterations, even basic movement changed quite a bit (to super-slippery for Heroes, then super-stiff for '06). Also you can't really separate Sonic's gameplay from the others in Heroes, due to the team gimmick.

It's still fair to group SA-'06 as one "era", but the details of it were a lot more fluid than, say, the Genesis era or the Boost era.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Diogenes said:

I don't entirely agree with that. Sonic had mostly the same moves and the same basic goal, but the underlying mechanics changed pretty significantly. He lost the ability to roll, the spindash got stiffer, the homing attack lost its momentum, the grinding mechanics went through a few iterations, even basic movement changed quite a bit (to super-slippery for Heroes, then super-stiff for '06). Also you can't really separate Sonic's gameplay from the others in Heroes, due to the team gimmick.

It's still fair to group SA-'06 as one "era", but the details of it were a lot more fluid than, say, the Genesis era or the Boost era.

Well, kinda obvious 06 is in the Adventure era, although no it's not a certain sequel fans debate about, it's still an Adventure game.

Sonic 06 Adventure - End of An Era...

lol

But in general that was a consistent thing about Sonic in itself, always changing from loose, stiff, loose, stiff... Kind of an expectation at the time.

[Diogenes]

 

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

But in general that was a consistent thing about Sonic in itself, always changing from loose, stiff, loose, stiff... Kind of an expectation at the time.

I don't think you can spin inconsistency into consistency no matter how hard you try, dude.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Diogenes said:

 

I don't think you can spin inconsistency into consistency no matter how hard you try, dude.

Not really trying all that much, just saying it was an expectation in its time.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Consistent - always sticking to the same core principles. Sorry man, but at that time Sonics gameplay was anything but. 

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Not really trying all that much, just saying it was an expectation in its time.

...I don't see how there was any expectation for Sonic's gameplay to be as inconsistent as it was at the time. It may have needed a game or two to transition into 3D properly, but it shouldn't have floundered for close to a decade.