Sega apologises to fans (hints at a old styled Sonic game?)

[azoo]

As for the 2D game being very well received, I don't think SEGA or Sonic Team would cater to it, seeing as they do their own thing no matter what. Sure, they've followed the critics to some point but they really do fire off on their own wishes and do very unpredictable things.They don't follow the wishes of critics to that extent, that's why we have never had a 2D Console game since two decades ago. 

Here's the thing, though. If we're to believe Sega is actually following demands and wants now, that changes the whole paradigm that we've been following completely. If Sega really wants to cater to the core audience now and gives them a 2D game, the majority of the community is gonna continue the "Sonic only works in 2D" schtick and Sega will likely lap it up for the sake of consumer goodwill.

Which is why I feel Sega would have to prove their worth in a 3D game first..

[Regen]

Here's the thing, though. If we're to believe Sega is actually following demands and wants now, that changes the whole paradigm that we've been following completely. If Sega really wants to cater to the core audience now and gives them a 2D game, the majority of the community is gonna continue the "Sonic only works in 2D" schtick and Sega will likely lap it up for the sake of consumer goodwill.

Which is why I feel Sega would have to prove their worth in a 3D game first..

It's logically what would happen, but this is SEGA and Sonic Team we are talking about here, they make no sense and do things only if they are really comfortable themselves with it. Only Sonic Team would strike gold with Boost then completely throw it away for Lost World. That made no sense either. They jumped from Sonic Rush to Sonic 4. They jumped from Sonic Adventure 2 to Sonic Heroes. They seemingly do what the fuck they want.

I don't actually think Sonic Team would stick to 2D if the next 2D Sonic game would be a success. And still, I think it's worth getting a full 2D Console Sonic game for that small risk, we haven't had one in over twenty years.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Regen

[azoo]

It'd be nice, but tbh I don't care that much. It really doesn't bother me that Mario hasn't had a 2D console game made by the main Mario dev team since Yoshi's Island; in fact I'm fine with side-games and handheld releases for 2D Mario, which is what I'd want from 2D Sonic more than anything.

But das just me. 

Edited November 1, 2015 by Azoo

[Wraith]

It'd be nice, but tbh I don't care that much. It really doesn't bother me that Mario hasn't had a 2D console game made by the main Mario dev team since Yoshi's Island; in fact I'm fine with side-games and handheld releases for 2D Mario, which is what I'd want from 2D Sonic more than anything.

 

The main Mario team made New Super Mario Bros U, actually. That one is praised much more than any of the others by those who played it.  

[azoo]

The main Mario team made New Super Mario Bros U, actually. That one is praised much more than any of the others by those who played it.  

Now that I didn't know.

Just as long as it's made known it's a side-title like the NSMB franchise is then I'm fine. I guess that's where I've been going with my argument. :v

[Regen]

Now that I didn't know.

Just as long as it's made known it's a side-title like the NSMB franchise is then I'm fine. I guess that's where I've been going with my argument. :v

I disagree in that it should be relegated as a small side project, as in it's only a stop gap title for the next big Sonic game. It should be a glorious title celebrating Sonic's return to 2D rather than 'New Sonic' e.t.c. 

Edited November 1, 2015 by Regen

[Dizcrybe]

I don't actually think Sonic Team would stick to 2D if the next 2D Sonic game would be a success. And still, I think it's worth getting a full 2D Console Sonic game for that small risk, we haven't had one in over twenty years.

We had one five years ago and it flopped. Then we had another one three years ago and it also flopped.

[Regen]

We had one five years ago and it flopped. Then we had another one three years ago and it also flopped.

They were small budget arcade titles, not full console releases. Besides, Sonic 4 Episode 1 sold really well.

[PickleBrows]

The problem with their last attempt at a new classic style game was that it wasn't even meant to be one in the first place. They thought they could just slap "Sonic 4" onto their non-related game and get away with it. To be fair, episode 1 certainly won professional critics over which only really seems to showcase their understanding of Classic Sonic is only skin deep. Episode 2 was then a salvage job which SEGA probably knew was a situation they couldn't possibly win.

Sonic's 2D adventures have for the most part been totally fine, classic or otherwise. Right now what they need to do is come out guns-blazing with the (presumably 3D) anniversary game and say "here's this game that's been in the works for five years. We're taking our time now and look what we've managed because of it". They need to prove that they can make a truly excellent game and not just a serviceable one. They need to do that first to prove that present day Sonic is just as high of quality as his earliest adventures.

A parallel series of 2D adventures alongside the newly-revitalised 3D games would allow them to keep a large majority of SEGA Sonic fans happy and they can still have Boom to appease the kids who maybe only care for that side of things and aren't really fussed with the main series.

[Blacklightning]

While we're on the subject of fan demand/coddling (depending on your definition), I feel it has to be said that making a game is a lengthy process even where it doesn't appear to be. For example, we used to get Sonic games damn near annually if not more, but that was by juggling several different teams and studios in and out with each other - the games would have taken closer to 2-3 years on their own to complete. One thing I've learned from this trend is that when you make games that use the fandom's chaotic shrieks as a basis, it seems like ancient history in internet years by the time they actually have anything to show for it.

Sometimes this means that the specific demand proved to be basically a fad and fallen into irrelevance since (kind of like Rickrolling in 2015 when you think about it), or sometimes it carries on all the misconceptions of the day with none of the discussion or clarification that happened since - like what happened when they stripped all of the playable characters out without realizing they were only hated because their gameplay had nothing to do with Sonic's, which is especially annoying because they continued making that exact same fuckup regardless. Either way, their premise is dated and the game tends to suffer for it.

This really just wraps back around to my original point that Sega should be rationalizing what the fans expect of them - because to be frank, they should fucking know better than that; they're game designers and we aren't. If they actually made some active attempt to analyze these ideas and consider what could go right or wrong, chances are they would catch onto this shit as they go, probably long before we did.

[Diogenes]

... like what happened when they stripped all of the playable characters out without realizing they were only hated because their gameplay had nothing to do with Sonic's ...

I really don't think this is entirely true. Their gameplay was probably the most significant issue, but I think there's a good number of people who don't like or don't care about the characters as characters either. Especially around Heroes or so when the cast bloat was at its worst and they were doing a very poor job of making all the new and returning characters likable or interesting.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I really don't think this is entirely true. Their gameplay was probably the most significant issue, but I think there's a good number of people who don't like or don't care about the characters as characters either. Especially around Heroes or so when the cast bloat was at its worst and they were doing a very poor job of making all the new and returning characters likable or interesting.

also they were hated because of Sonic 06 and Heroes when the writers make them take the spotlight away from Sonic making him useless in his own game. 

[Nepenthe]

Assuming that the biggest complaint with the extended cast was that they were unlikable, any designer worth their salt would have sought to rectify that by upping the quality of the writing and scaling the amount of movable playable models back (because let's face it, you're only actually playing with three characters in Heroes; they just have four skins). All this really does is return us to the fact that Sonic Team seems incapable of parsing demand and making reasonable compromises without using the sledgehammer option.

[azoo]

I really don't think this is entirely true. Their gameplay was probably the most significant issue, but I think there's a good number of people who don't like or don't care about the characters as characters either. Especially around Heroes or so when the cast bloat was at its worst and they were doing a very poor job of making all the new and returning characters likable or interesting.

Sonic and Eggman also weren't very likeable or interesting in those games either.

The answer to these kinds of problems should've always been that they should be written and handled better, and of course some people who weren't interested/impressed by these other characters in the first place aren't going to care about their presence until you give them a reason to.

Aaaaaaaaand as I post Nep is saying what I'm saying so here's my post anyways because I like the first bit I added to this :v

[Diogenes]

I'm certainly not saying that they shouldn't have improved the writing, but cutting extraneous, unpopular characters is not an unreasonable move either.

[Nepenthe]

It's not unreasonable until every character aside from Sonic, Tails, and Eggman is considered unpopular and extraneous, which was apparently the case if you're arguing that people actually did hate the extended cast up front over the gameplay attached to them. The only choice at that point is indeed to cut everybody.

[Diogenes]

Do you think I'm trying to defend everything Sonic Team did? No, they didn't have to cut the cast as deeply as they ended up doing, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have cut anyone.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I think they have only cut out the one character and its because they have no use for him which is true. I wouldnt mind them cutting out others theres no use for even if they were my favorites. However they arent going to do that so either way Im good 

[Nepenthe]

I don't mean to imply that you're defending the decision. I'm just rationalizing what they did and being bitter about it.

[D.H]

It didn't help that Sonic Team wrote the other characters like shit.

I mean, it's not hard to see characters like Amy, Knuckles,  etc. as "shit," when they were either horribly flanderized, or did nothing in games like Heroes, Battle, 06, etc.

To me, it's ridiculous how just stopped using almost every character not named Sonic, Tails, & Eggman, instead of just writing the characters better.

Edited November 2, 2015 by D.H

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I do also hate when they put characters in when they arent needed. I know the 4 man band has to be together but all the time?? And games like Lost World I dont know why Amy and Knuckles were there.... heck why is Tails there? Why was he needed? Plus when they do that it does make them act OOC

[D.H]

I do also hate when they put characters in when they arent needed. I know the 4 man band has to be together but all the time?? And games like Lost World I dont know why Amy and Knuckles were there.... heck why is Tails there? Why was he needed? Plus when they do that it does make them act OOC

To be fair, I could see why Amy & Knuckles was in Lost World, because we needed characters that was on the planet to react to what was happening to it.

It's a bit hard to answer why Tails was needed in LW, but I guess someone needed to shut down Eggman's machine.

Now that being said, I still hate Tails' portrayal in that game.

[Nepenthe]

Amy and Knuckles are there to put a face on the thing that's at stake, which is Sonic losing Earth- the same reason the NPCs in Unleashed are there. Tails is there as literal flight/intelligence/emotional support. Everyone in Lost World's story had purpose.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

To be fair, I could see why Amy & Knuckles was in Lost World, because we needed characters that was on the planet to react to what was happening to it.

It's a bit hard to answer why Tails was needed in LW, but I guess someone needed to shut down Eggman's machine.

Now that being said, I still hate Tails' portrayal in that game.

True but then it was a game about Sonic and Eggman working together and Eggman shut of his machine on his own so... Tails wasnt really needed. 

[Diogenes]

It's a bit hard to answer why Tails was needed in LW

...I don't understand how someone can see how much attention Tails was given in LW's story and not be sure why he was in it.