Sonic Deserves to Die?

[Tara]

I don't see how it makes Sega seem insecure to point out an inconsistency that's directed at their product, especially in a more lighthearted manner.  If anything, it shows involvement in their community and actual initiative to understand the general mindset of the companies that view them in such a negative light.  Granted, it probably/almost definitely doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things, but it doesn't rub off negatively on Sega, either.

[RubyEclipse]

It's all good for GT to have their own opinions, and respecting that maybe the guy who wrote the video didn't like Generations is important. (Even as strongly as I may disagree with that! )

That said, telling people that they're delusional, as the wording in the video went, for liking Colors or Generations? That's no good.

I don't always intend to call out gaming press on their hypocrisy, but when I do, I hope you'll all find it entertaining!

[FriendBot]

It's all good for GT to have their own opinions, and respecting that maybe the guy who wrote the video didn't like Generations is important. (Even as strongly as I may disagree with that! )

That said, telling people that they're delusional, as the wording in the video went, for liking Colors or Generations? That's no good.

I don't always intend to call out gaming press on their hypocrisy, but when I do, I hope you'll all find it entertaining!

And entertaining, it was. Thank you Aaron for calling out  GT, it is alright to have an opinion but you don't have to be a jerk about it really.

[Graystripe2000]

It's all good for GT to have their own opinions, and respecting that maybe the guy who wrote the video didn't like Generations is important. (Even as strongly as I may disagree with that! )

That said, telling people that they're delusional, as the wording in the video went, for liking Colors or Generations? That's no good.

I don't always intend to call out gaming press on their hypocrisy, but when I do, I hope you'll all find it entertaining!

At least GT wasn't as bad as GameInformer's review of Sonic Generations. That one was bad! You can see why for yourself (It's one of the reasons why I don't trust reviewers). http://www.gameinformer.com/games/sonic_generations/b/xbox360/archive/2011/10/31/sonic-generations-review-a-suffering-hedgehog-s-life-flashes-before-his-eyes.aspx 

One YouTube reviewer even called them out on it in the middle of his own review. http://youtu.be/jqOssrGoVYY?t=26m50s 

[Nepenthe]

I'm surprised at the number of favorites and retweets that tweet got. I wouldn't want it to be a habit for Sega to respond when a website criticizes Sonic, though.

If publicly-released criticism is contradictory, irrelevant, or inaccurate, then it deserves addressing and refutation by the public of which Sega isn't excluded from. And let's be clear: a lot of this clickbait garbage about Sonic is just that- garbage- and it has served to do nothing positive for the discourse surrounding the franchise and subsequently how Sega parses criticism. This doesn't mean the franchise cannot be criticized. It means people in positions of influence in the media don't get to twerk their asses with no consequence. The Sonic series being in the state it is doesn't mean it or the people who call themselves fans should allow any critique or outright attack to be levied at them without rebuttal. The "Sonic fans are too sensitive to see the truth and should be quiet" shtick got old in 2005.

I wholeheartedly welcome Ruby being snarky and pointing this crap out. The only regret is that he wasn't around when Gerstmann called not just hardcore fans but general gamers out as delusional for pointing out obvious presentation issues with Gamespot's video review of Lost World.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Nepenthe

[SBR2]

If it wasn't a site that always talks crap about Sonic would there still be people going "Ugh You Guys Suck"?

I mean most of the time I see "Sonic Needs to die" it from very fickle fans who if their absurdly high standards aren't met will yell about Sega hating the fans.  

[Nepenthe]

If any site- regardless of its assumed stance on Sonic- says the franchise needs to die and simultaneously calls Generations a bad game, then yes it will be met with deserved backlash.

[Badnik Mechanic]

 

I don't always intend to call out gaming press on their hypocrisy, but when I do, I hope you'll all find it entertaining!

Yeah to me it looks like an editor or head of department has said 'I want a video about the top 10... and you gotta make it by...'

Odds are the person who made the video didn't or isn't clued up with the franchises. They just picked some long running franchises which they've heard a lot of lol about.

Mind you I'm half tempted to put out a video called

*Puts on the GT voice over voice*

'The top 10 funnier tweet replies than the GT twitter account guy could come up with.' 

NUMBER 10!

"Our witty reply is... NOW LOADING..."

NUMBER 9!

"You can try to and out reply us... but it's no use!"

NUMBER 8!

"Gotta GO fast!"

And well you get the idea. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It's all good for GT to have their own opinions, and respecting that maybe the guy who wrote the video didn't like Generations is important. (Even as strongly as I may disagree with that! )

That said, telling people that they're delusional, as the wording in the video went, for liking Colors or Generations? That's no good.

I don't always intend to call out gaming press on their hypocrisy, but when I do, I hope you'll all find it entertaining!

Stuff like this really makes me more optimistic that you guys at Sega can parse through criticism from both the audience and the critics.

That and seeing them get burned like that just makes me happy!

I thank you!

 

Edited July 28, 2015 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Wittymations]

Part of the problem I have with game reviews is that it all boils down to one guy's opinion, and that single opinion is supposed to be the opinion of the ENTIRE company. Guy making the video may not even be the same reviewer.
 

I just find reviewing a real mess. Part of the reason why I don't listen to reviews, independent gamers or business.

[LongcrierCat]

It's all good for GT to have their own opinions, and respecting that maybe the guy who wrote the video didn't like Generations is important. (Even as strongly as I may disagree with that! )

That said, telling people that they're delusional, as the wording in the video went, for liking Colors or Generations? That's no good.

I don't always intend to call out gaming press on their hypocrisy, but when I do, I hope you'll all find it entertaining!

There is always the sliding scale of someone's standards, Aaron. Not everyone's standards are in tune.

Granted, I think that Mr. Game Trailers came off as an ass, but I agree that three games where we finally had a decent experience instead of enemy rushes, gate key finding, a bizarrely immature "mature" spinoff, two subpar racing games until Sumo Digital got to step in, a game where even the process of jumping has been oddly over complicated (and twice in a row for its spinoff series!), and the two worst videogames that a well beloved videogame franchise could muster doesn't absolve the franchise of all of that same exact muck that it's trudged through. There has to be more than decency, there has to be the promise of an ambition, to not only strive to be at least have a go at decency but to try to be much more than what the previous attempts were. Sure, Sonic Unleashed had promise. It had a ton of promise with a crammed in option to play as really slow Ristar meets really slow God of War. It tried to set up a really nice idea, and the Boost gameplay was a fun distraction to build up to maybe flesh out a better game than one that's just about going fast and nothing else. 

Sonic Colours, I think, is seen as much better than it is, in direct competition of the other title released that year: the abysmal Sonic 4: Episode 1. There was no excuse for Sonic 4's quality. Either you were going to put up or shut up and Dimps simply couldn't muster the effort. They made a copy of a copy of a copy and it did nothing to compel me. Sonic Colours on its own standards is a game about a character who runs really fast, hangs with his exposition spewing gadgeteer buddy, is friends with powers granting aliens, and Eggman is Sitcom Adventures of Sonic Robotnik. The gameplay is that the character, as in Unleashed's Boost format, was tasked with the idea of getting to the end as fast as possible. Typical Sonic stuff, right? Typical literally any fast platformer stuff right? It's the first Sonic game to have a Level Ate. That was neat, it was surreal, but in its essence, what typical platformer that isn't Mario or Sonic doesn't have that kind of level. What would a platform game be without platforms, right? 

Sonic Generations was a bit of step up and had two gameplay styles that complimented each other. Or would have if you played up Modern Sonic being 3D more. It had too much scripting on weird level geometries, you had scripted springs, and boost pads still litter 2D Sonic when you guys should remember how Sonic played 20 years ago. It wasn't bad. It just lacked the touch that the old games had. The right code touches, the right integers put to the right variables putting together a truly memorable gameplay experience. 

You're just a PR guy and huge fan, Aaron. I respect the responsibility that you've taken with your job. The Sonic twitter is funny and one of the only reasons I go to Twitter. You're fantastic and a truly great Community Manager for Sega. Just don't come off as fanboy-ish now.  Sega's CEO admitted to them even betraying their own fanbase, and here you are acting like those couldn't be seen as really weird mistakes by some of us. Even Hajime Satomi knows there's something wrong, or knows that he needs to save face (holding out for the former). Sega needs to get its marbles together. They need to be more than the Sonic guys again. Nostalgia can't fix inherent flaws just because a decade of experimentation failed. Experiments fail for you to learn from them. So the hypothesis can work, but maybe you used a wrong variable. Try something else in that formula then.  

Sonic needs to impress now. I'm not asking for something too grandiose, I'm just asking for a game of intermediate hook that will keep me coming back. I don't care how small the game is or how small a price tag you'll put. I just want to play this game that feels unique. I don't want Sonic to have a run button anymore, you know who had that? Mario. Are you telling me that Sonic is just nothing more than faster Mario now? 

What can you offer me that no one else can? What can you do that Freedom Planet can't? 

I've been very harsh in my criticism, but it's only because I used to care about this. I don't want to be your enemy. I just want to see if Sega/Sonic Team can do better. Show me a reason to care when you tell me that you care. Show us the passion. 

[FriendBot]

*sighs* Ok, so maybe I might've done goofed here but I was reading an article about this little event and read the comments, click here to see what I'm talking about. So I decided to reply to them, in hindsight probably not a a good idea and I know should've just ignored it and moved on and watch some silly videos and call it a day. But alas, here I am mentally exhausted over a dumb Internet argument, so might as well see how much I dun goofed and see if the other person has a point or is just as wrong as I am. It's probably the former.

 

Oh, my God, dude... You just highlighted the exact problem with this whole thing: the need to mind our own damn business.

The fact that some fans out there don't like the classic Sonic games is not only none of your business, but it's childish to think you can "do something about it". There WILL be fans who don't like some Sonic games that you do like (even if it's the classic games, heaven forbid), and that's out of your control, as it very well should be.

SEGA have to make games for several different types of gamers, and that's not going to change just because GameTrailers and the Sonic Twitter had a petty (even if thankfully short) internet war.

It's not Webber's job to police people's expression of their opinions, either. The fact that GameTrailers acted like idiots in their expressions doesn't mean Webber should choose to respond to it like a know-it-all college student. He's better than that, if he chooses to be better than that. It may not be that big a deal in this case that he did act this way, as everyone gets fed up every once in a while, but it's a bad attitude for him to develop and display. And he seems to do i t fairly frequently, if indeed it has been him on the Sonic Twitter these last several months.

People are allowed to say dumb things, even if it's pretty obvious that they're being dumb about what they're saying. It's a free country. GameTrailers get to be idiots if they want to be idiots, and their choice to be idiots is not a go-ahead to do the same thing. So what if GameTrailers are a-holes? We all KNOW that. They, along with many other "professional" game critics, have been showing it for years to many people who take a closer look at it.

But a mature adult l ike Webber doesn't look for excuses to be immature by pointing the finger and saying, "Well, they did THIS, so now that means I get to do THAT right back to them". They work to maintain their mature attitude even when faced with someone else who doesn't do the same. It's not like many people who like Generations are going to stop liking it just because GameTrailers' spout rude bs about the game.

I'm not trying to say GameTrailers are in the right, here. I'm saying that, when dealing with it, don't look at it and treat it as a pissing contest between two high school students, in the first place. Grow up, and deal with it like the grown up that you are.

 

Not sure if this guy has a point but I really can't give a shit anymore about this, so yeah thoughts on the mess I started? 

[Graystripe2000]

I was browsing through Reddit's KiA subreddit and found this (Read the big tweet under the Sonic tweet). https://archive.is/wxUTJ 

[FriendBot]

Ah yes, those kinds of people. Acting like a fictional character is real and post a hateful tweet and pretend they didn't do anything, yeah can we ignore those dumb windbags?

[Wraith]

There is always the sliding scale of someone's standards, Aaron. Not everyone's standards are in tune.

Granted, I think that Mr. Game Trailers came off as an ass, but I agree that three games where we finally had a decent experience instead of enemy rushes, gate key finding, a bizarrely immature "mature" spinoff, two subpar racing games until Sumo Digital got to step in, a game where even the process of jumping has been oddly over complicated (and twice in a row for its spinoff series!), and the two worst videogames that a well beloved videogame franchise could muster doesn't absolve the franchise of all of that same exact muck that it's trudged through. There has to be more than decency, there has to be the promise of an ambition, to not only strive to be at least have a go at decency but to try to be much more than what the previous attempts were. Sure, Sonic Unleashed had promise. It had a ton of promise with a crammed in option to play as really slow Ristar meets really slow God of War. It tried to set up a really nice idea, and the Boost gameplay was a fun distraction to build up to maybe flesh out a better game than one that's just about going fast and nothing else. 

Sonic Colours, I think, is seen as much better than it is, in direct competition of the other title released that year: the abysmal Sonic 4: Episode 1. There was no excuse for Sonic 4's quality. Either you were going to put up or shut up and Dimps simply couldn't muster the effort. They made a copy of a copy of a copy and it did nothing to compel me. Sonic Colours on its own standards is a game about a character who runs really fast, hangs with his exposition spewing gadgeteer buddy, is friends with powers granting aliens, and Eggman is Sitcom Adventures of Sonic Robotnik. The gameplay is that the character, as in Unleashed's Boost format, was tasked with the idea of getting to the end as fast as possible. Typical Sonic stuff, right? Typical literally any fast platformer stuff right? It's the first Sonic game to have a Level Ate. That was neat, it was surreal, but in its essence, what typical platformer that isn't Mario or Sonic doesn't have that kind of level. What would a platform game be without platforms, right? 

Sonic Generations was a bit of step up and had two gameplay styles that complimented each other. Or would have if you played up Modern Sonic being 3D more. It had too much scripting on weird level geometries, you had scripted springs, and boost pads still litter 2D Sonic when you guys should remember how Sonic played 20 years ago. It wasn't bad. It just lacked the touch that the old games had. The right code touches, the right integers put to the right variables putting together a truly memorable gameplay experience. 

You're just a PR guy and huge fan, Aaron. I respect the responsibility that you've taken with your job. The Sonic twitter is funny and one of the only reasons I go to Twitter. You're fantastic and a truly great Community Manager for Sega. Just don't come off as fanboy-ish now.  Sega's CEO admitted to them even betraying their own fanbase, and here you are acting like those couldn't be seen as really weird mistakes by some of us. Even Hajime Satomi knows there's something wrong, or knows that he needs to save face (holding out for the former). Sega needs to get its marbles together. They need to be more than the Sonic guys again. Nostalgia can't fix inherent flaws just because a decade of experimentation failed. Experiments fail for you to learn from them. So the hypothesis can work, but maybe you used a wrong variable. Try something else in that formula then.  

Sonic needs to impress now. I'm not asking for something too grandiose, I'm just asking for a game of intermediate hook that will keep me coming back. I don't care how small the game is or how small a price tag you'll put. I just want to play this game that feels unique. I don't want Sonic to have a run button anymore, you know who had that? Mario. Are you telling me that Sonic is just nothing more than faster Mario now? 

What can you offer me that no one else can? What can you do that Freedom Planet can't? 

I've been very harsh in my criticism, but it's only because I used to care about this. I don't want to be your enemy. I just want to see if Sega/Sonic Team can do better. Show me a reason to care when you tell me that you care. Show us the passion. 

...Was there really a point to this post or are you just dumping your grievances with Sonic Team on Aaron, a person who has nothing to do with anything Sonic Team down in Japan does?

All he said is that he doesn't think it's right to call people who like the game delusional. That's it. This is unnecessary. 

Edited July 29, 2015 by Wraith

[nintega137]

Ah yes, those kinds of people. Acting like a fictional character is real and post a hateful tweet and pretend they didn't do anything, yeah can we ignore those dumb windbags?

I'm confused. I don't use twitter, but after posting that and had other's talk to her, she just kept telling them to not respond to her comment over and over. If you didn't want people to @ you, don't post in the first place (that's what I would do anyway)

[Baraksha]

I was thinking lately, and i'm getting really woried about sonic lately, the whole hate trend thing, I think sonic since sonic boom has taken a blow so big that people now hate him more then ever now and caused some seriouse damage for the series, and I don't mean just boom I mean sonic's name in general, I mean literaly everyone out of a sonic related website says sonic sucks in every game since 1994, heck some people say that sonic was never good to begin with ,  and I see that potraid not only toward the games but to anything sonic in general , I think the situation has gotten so horribly wrong that I think sonic may even have the best game ever that will be rated 10/10 and even those who hate sonic will say "oh yeh, that one was good" and it will still won't sell as if it was a sonic boom game, but then again I may be exegurating, but seriously I know that it's better to ignore all those people, but I don't see how that helps, I want to show that sonic the hedgehog is more then what people make it out to be, I want to show them that sonic can work out side of the 90's , I don't  want to try and change people's opinions  and make them like sonic or anything,  hack no, if they truly don't like it then fine, but there are so many negativity around sonic over the internet that there are people out there that simply hate sonic because everyone else are hating him with out even trying him out and see it for them selfs, and just thinking about it makes me sad, but if there is really no way to over come this negativity, then I really fear how much time does sonic have before something hapanes

Edited August 7, 2015 by Kiah
Topic has been merged with an existing one.

[Guest]

Sonic will survive. He's gotten this far so they won't just stop. Sonic has a humongous fanbase so, SEGA wouldn't just stop. And if SEGA gives, Nintendo will most likely take care of him. Sonic is a huge gaming Icon that has been around for nearly 25 years. If he's been going strong that long, that means the series wont die. It will probably stay around until the world ends. The only reason people are bashing on Sonic, is because one really popular person started it, and everyone tried to be "cool". But, it's not cool. trying to kill a series that quadrillions of people around the world love, is not cool. way under cool. But, it wont work. The Sonic blast will go on forever. (Saying the Sonic Boom doesn't sound right anymore...)

Edited August 7, 2015 by Guest

[Failinhearts]

The Sonic fanbase gone through a lot, yet we still survived. No matter how much crap this little blue guy gets, he still gets back on his feet and makes games. There's still a fanbase that loves him. Yeah, lots of people in the fanbase become overly negative on him but we're still here and Sonic's still here.

The Boom games may have been a failure but the show is still going strong, that should be a sign. The upcoming movie should also show that SEGA is still doing something with Sonic. F4F is still making statues for him and Sonic has cemented himself as a part of gaming history. He ain't going anywhere.

What was that line used during Sonic's 20th Anniversary? "Still unstoppable after 20 years."

That about sums it up.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

How many of these threads do we have at this point.

Sonic is surviving fine. He's survived worse games than Rise of Lyric. Lost World is mixed, Generations, and Colours are both deemed good, and for the most part, Unleashed is regarded as alright to good.

Currently, Sonic has:

-A popular TV series despite a lackluster time slot

-2 Running Comics

-A movie on it's way

-A mobile game that has a good core gameplay and is regarded as a success by Sega

-A toy line that's apparently doing well 

-Sonic Boom Fire & Ice (A disappointment and a baffling move, but likely just a game to hold over serious fans until the 25th anniversary game)

-And 25th anniversary stuff have already been found around the internet, including the logo for the 25th anniversary.

Sonic is doing fine. He's already confirmed to be getting more console games. Rise of Lyric was a failed spin off that hopefully has taught Sega a very harsh lesson in screwing over their fans (And considering they've admitted that they just haven't measured up in terms of quality lately, and have said sorry for it, and have said they wish to do better, it means things might just be looking up.)

But seriously, can we just stop with these threads? We have so many of them already about it when there's so many things that goes against it.

[Johnny Boy]

If 06 and Boom couldn't kill this franchise, nothing will. Seriously, I know Sonic has had his ups and downs but the fact that he's still an extremely iconic gaming character that still has a large and devoted fanbase still stands. He's gonna be fine.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Johnny Boy

[Blacklightning]

If Sonic can survive both a hardware crash and a bomb as bad as Sonic '06 and still spring back to positive results after both, it's going to take a lot more than a failed WiiU title to kill him.

...speaking of that, serious question, is anyone actually basing any of this doomsaying off of anything besides Rise of Lyric?

[Agie]

Everyone else put it best. The guy's been through things that would have killed most franchises, and he's still kicking.

Edited August 7, 2015 by SurrealBrain

[Diogenes]

I don't get this argument that, because Sonic has survived '06 and RoL, that it's somehow immortal. This isn't a case of "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger", it's a case of the series limping away from the flaming wreckage, lucky to be alive. The series has pissed away its good reputation, it's got a fanbase with some seriously deep rifts, and it has practically no idea what it's even supposed to be anymore. I'm not saying it's guaranteed to die, but this is not a healthy situation to be in. So why are people so convinced it's going to stick around indefinitely?

[Nepenthe]

No one here believes Sonic will literally last until society collapses, or even that the current situation is good. We're simply unconvinced that there's any active reason to start hyperventilating into a paper bag in panic.