ProJared reviews Sonic Adventure 2

[Autosaver]

Man, I'm trying to do my best pretending everything from 2003 - 2006 in the Sonic series didn't happen, okay? :v

If Sonic Rush never happened I would have probably Alt+F4 the series more than a decade ago.

[PandoloFox]

Like I said before, so this story wants me to take it seriously and at the same time not think about what it's happening.

 

What kind of standard is that?

It wants you to take it like an action movie. not being 100 procent accurate. Serious doesnt mean that everything has to make sense. Serious means that effort was put in it, that its genuine. It also means a lot of other things. But being accurate is not one of them.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/serious

i dont know why plotholes would be more forgivable in story that isnt serious than in one that is.

[Diogenes]

- Why is Eggman for no real reason trusting this bat intruder in the Ark instead of capturing her cause she clearly has a reason to be here other than just helping him cause she wants jewels? If your answer is that Eggman is just that dumb cause he's a goofball then better question: why is Shadow, who is supposed to be methodical and smart put his plan to avenge Maria in danger by blindly trusting her? Why not just steal her blue emerald and again, capturing her for questioning?

Shadow doesn't see her as a threat. Let her and Eggman do whatever, they don't even realize what he's up to anyway, and if they do, he'd take them out himself.

- Why did GUN allow Gerald to record his final terrorist message before his execution and how did it end up on the ARK? Did GUN think it would be a nice gesture to carry the dangerous terrorist's final wish? This military is full of freaking morons.

Letting him record a message does nothing to harm them, so why not let the crazy old man babble for a bit? And everything else was Shadow's doing.

Are you also gonna tell me that characters acting like morons just so that the plot can move forward is also just a meaningless detail?

If the characters are actually dumb, or some circumstance blinds them to the truth, it's not bad writing for them to do dumb things.

[The Deleter]

Yeah, I'm probably one of the few that doesn't agree with him.

 

Maybe it's because I like genre roulette games in the first place, but taking away the treasure hunting and the mech shooting would take away from over half the fun I had with the game. Yeah, I actually have fun with the modes. Crazy.

 

Furthermore, whenever people talk about the Treasure Hunting levels, it seems like all that they care about is making them as ridiculously small and easy to get by as possible. Small stages, easy hints, and radar that picks up on all emeralds possible. That last one isn't that bad of a want, really, as it's sort of unintuitive for an already placed emerald to be passed up like that, but still, this was a design choice that people clearly made, since SA1 had the all-encompassing radar in the first place. And, for the most part, I'm okay with it. It demands that the player explore the level deeper than what SA1 required, and cross over as much of the level as possible, which, for an exploration-based game, is sort of a desired design in the first place.

 

It would have been better if the emeralds weren't placed already, true, but I think the main flaw that people tend to have an issue with the radar most of the time is with how some of these levels are designed; Namely Mad Space, Egg Quarters, and Security Hall. These stages are based around limited pathways with the shards/emeralds stuck inside of them in rather complex forms, unlike the rest that are usually based around a main, center of the stage with branching paths you'd traverse if you get a reading. This is where the radar, by all accounts, should definitely have been detecting all emerald shards in the first place. With open ended, very loose levels, you can forgive a singular reading, as it usually is very analog with how you can approach it, but with hallway levels? Traversing the same hallways/pathways over and over to find a reading, getting one, following it, resuming the search, then finding another reading in a hallway you've passed through several times already is just infuriating. The level's long enough as it is; you've already searched through all the paths by the time you've found the first Emerald. You don't need the radar to drag it out for you. I personally never had much of an issue with them, but it's definitely a design flaw.

 

 

Mechs on the other hand, well, they're mechs. I feel like they're supposed to feel heavy and stuff by default. Not to mention the wieght handed itself to the problems Gamma had very well. Their gameplay was smooth and deliberate now, and the shooting mechanics were much more polished than Gamma's were, since the physics didn't throw you all over the place just because you aimed in a different direction you were heading in. The levels also had much better platforming and, in Eggman's case, inventive enough mechanics and level gimmicks to be fresh enough to not be bored with, and shooting and blasting stuff was an actual goal in the stage that validated the mechs existance story-wise, rather than the shooting just being there as a time mechanic.

 

The only issue I have with them is that Tails' stages can get sorta dull at times, probably because he wasn't even in the game at one point. They are all very samey,  and don't really have anything to them that makes them stand out or feel unique outside of setting.

 

 

In terms of genre roulette games, SA2 has to be one of the most fun games I've ever played of them all, and I couldn't imagine the game being the same if both of these modes were removed. Is there something inherently wrong with genre roulette games, and do they have no place in established series? I'm not sure. But to me, SA2 is definitely one of the better games that I can go back to and enjoy over and over again.

 

And no, it's definitely not because of blind nostalgia, because I only picked the game up two years ago. >:U

[Clewis]

Here's something I've always wondered regarding SA2's plot: is it ever explained in game why Eggman decides to blow up Prison Island? Was it just to cover up his tracks? Because goddamn.

 

Not only does Eggman blow up an entire island that was potentially populated at the time, but he also successfully destroys a quarter of the moon, threatens Amy's life by holding a gun to her head, and nearly manages to blow Sonic to smithereens after shooting him into the earth's atmosphere.

 

Eggman was not fucking around in SA2.

[Wraith]

It's probably the most threatening Eggman's ever been while still staying in character. I liked it. He pretty much stays one step ahead of Sonic and pals and keeps them on their toes for the entire time.

[Nepenthe]

It seemed like the Adventure games wanted us to take Eggman more seriously as a threat by showing us how much more trigger-happy he was when his emotions and frustrations got the better of him. In a fit of anger, Eggman was very tempted to simply get down to brass tacks and just bomb Station Square to achieve his goals faster. I also imagine the bomb on Prison Island was as much to cover his tracks as it was to send a message, the latter of which is also the only reason he even took out the moon in the first place. He wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty and throw his weight around, and I kind of wish we could have that part of Eggman back.

[The Deleter]

Well...

 

1: Yeah he probably wanted to cover his tracks. Since this is GUN, he probably wanted as little surveilance of his mechs and tactics on record, and he probably thought that blowing up the entire place was easier than scanning all over the island to find the several survielance rooms and sift through them to find the files he doesn't want to be seen.

 

2: Prison Island was probably the only GUN base that actually had the means to capture and contain Shadow once again. He landed on earth presumably conscious, so they must have had something built to nutralize him in the end. And since they built his prison on an island, all of those forces would probably be stored there and only there if he ever was to escape. And again, it's easier to take it all out in one fell swoop than to search for those forces individually.

 

3: He's Eggman, and in the Adventure games, he loves sending threatening messages. He blew up the moon, what problem would he have with blowing up a mere island?

[Kuzu]

I think the best part about Eggman in the Adventure games is that when got pissed off, instead of throwing a temper tantrum and slamming his machines and cursing Sonic's name, no he got pissed off. He completely dropped his normal hammy self and was pretty much in a constant "I am real tired of your shit"  mode. Its like one of the rare times you'd probably be genuinely afraid of him.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Here's something I've always wondered regarding SA2's plot: is it ever explained in game why Eggman decides to blow up Prison Island? Was it just to cover up his tracks? Because goddamn.

 

Not only does Eggman blow up an entire island that was potentially populated at the time, but he also successfully destroys a quarter of the moon, threatens Amy's life by holding a gun to her head, and nearly manages to blow Sonic to smithereens after shooting him into the earth's atmosphere.

 

Eggman was not fucking around in SA2.

I think it's less to cover up his tracks and more to weaken GUN. I mean, it had a heavy force there, aircraft carriers, robots, personnel, equipment, ICBMs, and resources. Plus, they're one of the few forces other than Sonic and his friends that can put up a threat to him (which is funny when he can solo them in their own fortress), so blowing all of that up would absolutely strain an enemy force from a strategic perspective.

 

...and this just makes me miss how threatening Eggman used to be. Sure he could be funny, but when he takes the gloves off he could be downright murderous. We can say what we want about SA2, but this game was perhaps where Eggman was at his peak as a villain, and that's not even a high bar to top.

 

Closest we ever came to getting that back was in the opening of Unleashed when he actually blew up the Earth this time and when you fight him in his Egg Dragoon at the hellish core of the planet. But other than that he didn't do much threatening or action compared to what he did in here or SA1.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Hmm, it's looking like this is becoming the new "Sonic Adventure 2 Discussion" Thread.

[Neo_Fire_Sonic]

Sonic Adventure 2's great parts (Sonic and Shadow's levels) were reinforced because we all replayed them out of context of the story just so we could get animals and chaos drives for the Chao Garden.

 

Um no, to get the most chaos drives, I would pick one of tails or eggman's levels

[Sami]

I actually wish we could see Eggman butt heads with an adversary other than Sonic, who obviously has to win because he's the hero. It'd make a big difference in audience perception if we were to see him do something as simple as completely school GUN in a game of wits or even outright firepower and mechanics.

 

An example off the top of my head: We get all these big setpieces, but nothing that really shows Eggman's capability as a villain directly. What if during the GUN Truck chase, a mech similar to the Death Egg Robot or Lost World's final boss were to fly in (for added effect you could vaguely see his silhouette flying around at different points in the level) and outright punch the truck off its tracks effortlessly, and moving in to ramp up the difficulty and mix up the setpiece with new attacks like lasers and shit changing the terrain and complicating things for Sonic. 

 

Pretty basic idea. Woulda been cool. Kind of wish we could see stuff like that from him instead of only really seeing piss easy bosses every hour or so. 

[Kuzu]

I actually wish we could see Eggman butt heads with an adversary other than Sonic, who obviously has to win because he's the hero. It'd make a big difference in audience perception if we were to see him do something as simple as completely school GUN in a game of wits or even outright firepower and mechanics.

 

An example off the top of my head: We get all these big setpieces, but nothing that really shows Eggman's capability as a villain directly. What if during the GUN Truck chase, a mech similar to the Death Egg Robot or Lost World's final boss were to fly in (for added effect you could vaguely see his silhouette flying around at different points in the level) and outright punch the truck off its tracks effortlessly, and moving in to ramp up the difficulty and mix up the setpiece with new attacks like lasers and shit changing the terrain and complicating things for Sonic. 

 

Pretty basic idea. Woulda been cool. Kind of wish we could see stuff like that from him instead of only really seeing piss easy bosses every hour or so. 

 

There was an arc in the Archie comics that actually had a similar setup. It was pretty awesome.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

There was an arc in the Archie comics that actually had a similar setup. It was pretty awesome.

Funny thing is that GUN was nothing more than an obstacle in finding his target.

[Tani Coyote]

I think Eggman blew up Prison Island just to be evil. That it was a strategic benefit to himself by weakening the most powerful force on Earth is a plus.

Anyway, finally got around to watching this; I was eager to see what all the fuss was about.

Come to think of it, he might be right about the gameplay. I would always skip the Knuckles/Rouge/Eggman/Tails stages unless there was a neat cutscene involved with it.

I don't really think of the story as that stupid, though, even if the imposter plot device can be a bit hard to believe... but that's where the headcanon GUN covers its tracks comes in.

Then again I'm not much of a critic.

[Indigo Rush]

Um no, to get the most chaos drives, I would pick one of tails or eggman's levels

Well alrighty, then. How does that invalidate the main idea?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't really think of the story as that stupid, though, even if the imposter plot device can be a bit hard to believe... but that's where the headcanon GUN covers its tracks comes in.

Then again I'm not much of a critic.

Well from someone who is a hell of a critic, I have to say that, honestly, the story isn't really stupid than it is just really damn incomplete in certain areas that come off as rather disconnected. But a lot of the plotholes in SA2 can easily be fixed by adding in details that cover themselves, or making better sense of the scenes.

 

It's thankfully nothing like Sonic 06's mess where it needs a whole restructure to make sense.

[Your Vest Friend]

Well alrighty, then. How does that invalidate the main idea?

 

Because there are plenty who went with strategic farming as opposed to the levels that are considered great parts. I know I grinded the hell out of Prison Lane because it's easy to get the maximum yield of Chaos Drives that you need, and picking said great levels is meaningless if they don't even contain the animal you want to use for specific animal parts and behaviours.

[Bowbowis]

The thing that's always bugged me about the whole "Gerald couldn't have reprogrammed the ARK" thing is that it's only a problem if you make the assumption that Gerald was carted off to Prison Island immediately after the raid, which is completely unsubstantiated. Consider instead this possible sequence of events:

 

1. Gerald was not taken to Prison Island Immediately. Instead he was detained aboard the ARK so that G.U.N. could consult him on how to safely shut it down because the G.U.N. soldiers didn't want to blow themselves up by making the same mistake the EPA did in Ghostbusters.

 

2. Gerald had access to a computer as evidenced by his e-diary. From this computer he could hack into the ARK and install his newly written program remotely.

 

3. Shadow returned to the ARK for a time. Specifically when G.U.N recovered him they had no way of actually containing him in the long term. As such he was shipped back to the ARK to be held in stasis until the proper facilities could be constructed on Prison Island. Once Gerald was finished reprogramming the ARK he escaped from his makeshift cell and made the necessary alterations to Shadow's memories. He was subsequently caught and his execution was scheduled on the spot.

 

4. Gerald's execution video was added to the program by Shadow. As seen in both Sonic Adventure 2 and Shadow the Hedgehog the ARK is perfectly capable of televised broadcasting. It's not a stretch to think that it can receive and record television as well. When Gerald gave Shadow his new orders he also instructed Shadow to locate the execution video in the archives and set it to play when the doomsday program activates.

 

4  (alt). As an alternative to the above Gerald programmed the ARK  to use facial and/or vocal recognition software to identify which video was the correct one and then automatically add it to the program.

 

I don't think anything here contradicts known facts. It's simply a matter of not assuming things that contradict what's explicitly stated to have occurred.

[Mauro Fonseca]

It's probably the most threatening Eggman's ever been while still staying in character.

 

I honestly don't feel Sonic Adventure 2 did that job very well. Adventure, sure, but by the time you have Eggman pointing guns at people directly, I feel they kinda missed the character a bit. Not by much, but he does feel to me genuinely out of character a lot in a lot of Adventure 2 scenes.

 

I just write it off as ulcers.

[Kuzu]

It's out of character for the villain to...well, act like a villain?

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[azoo]

Well, Eggman's scenes in SA2 where he's holding Amy at gunpoint seem kind of farfetched in the case that he seems kinda.. over the edge? At the same time, that could easily help push that he loses some of his clownish boundaries when pushed far enough, but it's kind of.. dark, even for Eggman's standards. Seems more like a Joker thing than an Eggman thing to do.

 

Probably would've worked more in-character if Eggman would've admitted afterward to the gun being empty just using it as a threat. I mean, can you really imagine Eggman shooting someone like that? I mean, maybe with a laser cannon or something, but a pistol? Nah. :v

[Kuzu]

We're seriously going to go down this road again...

We're back to the "that's too dark for Sonic, oh mah gerd" camp.

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[Rad Dudesman]

It's out of character for the villain to...well, act like a villain?

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It's too... well, practical, for Eggman.

 

Where are Eggman's silly cartoon robots and stuff? Instead, he's doing things in really boring ways.

 

It's out of character for someone as childish as Eggman to try to kill Sonic in a cheap and underhanded way, or hold a gun to a little girl's head.