Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)

[Carbo]

3DS discussion is now split for accessibility. Use this topic.

[Milo]

You know, it's kind of a sad thing to think that even Sonic Team, as mediocre/underwhelming/shitty as their games usually turn out to be, are at least able to make their games look like they will be entertaining to play prior to release. BRB and Sanzaru? They managed to derailed and crashed their own hype train the moment they actually released (or in the case of Sanzaru, unveiled) new footage/screenshots of their offerings since the reveal.

 

I don't necessarily think these games are going to be flat-out awful and I'm sure these games (somehow) are or turn out to be better than they look...in their own right at least (though this hype train pile-up cut BRB and Sanzaru's work out for them if they want to convince people -or at least Sonic fans anyway...- otherwise). But consider me sitting out, from what I've seen, it's beyond nothing special. It's disappointingly nothing special, which is probably as offensive as you can get by letting (a) new team(s) do something different with an IP you're familiar with. Only thing I can commend in terms of gameplay is the Metroidvania gameplay approach for the 3DS version and the graphics looking great on the Wii U version.

 

But with that said, don't count me out as one waiting for Sonic Team's 2015 game (and Dimps if they're in charge of another watered down handheld port). If Lost World and Sonic 4 are anything to go by, they'll just be stumbling around in the dark again trying to find out what "works", either through putting Sonic through more experimentation or attempting to go back to something that worked in the past only for them to botch it up (further). As far as I'm concerned Sonic Team will probably churn out another divisive Sonic game that will likely be best remembered for being hotly debated over whether it was worse than Boom (as a Sonic game) or not.

[Nepenthe]

After reading this whole thread I was expecting a completely off-putting clusterfuck of technical and design incompetence, and instead I get a standard action-adventure platformer. I don't know what to really say other than the sheer cynicism around here seems to far proceed what's actually on the table, and beyond that there's things that I like and don't mind anyway. I like the idea of using the speed stages as access points to major areas, the creepy guardian level, and I'm still on board with the traditional platforming scope of the game and the character switching. Even the normal speed of the characters doesn't actually bother me. And the use of the Remote Play feature is freaking brilliant. The only thing that actively made me cringe was the in-level dialogue because, you know, Sonic dialogue. Otherwise, I don't empathize with anyone who's calling this outright shit.

[The Deleter]

The mach speed sections remind me of Rayman Origins/Legends running levels, what with all the wall running, hopping, springs, and chains rails to slide down. They just need to fix the camera and make more challenging routes, and I think this will be a perfect level transition method.

[TheLaw34]

The combat in this "combat focused" game looks decent not great like mgr or bayonetta.

One of my main problems is the lighting it make the game look ugly. 

The adventure segments should have the character moving atleast twice or three times as fast (im not asking for unleashed speed but this is just sad). Taking the focus away from speed is one thing but making it slow is just disgusting

 

Was trying to give some harsh critic but im not good

I do think I will like playing the game and it looks like tons of fun but I wish it were good enough that I would have cared about it if it werent sonic. 

[PickleBrows]

Right, I reckon I'll jump in. When I first saw the footage I was really concerned. However, after having some time to let it sink in I'm finding that further re-watches are gradually finding more for me to like about this. If there is a greater emphasis on exploration than there appears to be here then I'll be much happier. A run button, or just faster speeds in general could help liven up the slower parts of the "adventure" segments. 

 

Now, for those of you who are still very unhappy with the game thus far, you are not wrong. The reasons people have given are truly valid and are ones that BRB should listen to, regardless of whether they can implement changes or not. There are flaws here that really stem from them not fully understanding where the line is with messing around and changing things. Ditching speed and shoving it in it's own little areas is not the way to keep to the roots and truly feel like a later addition to try and bring something recognisably Sonic into it 

 

On a completely positive note, the redone character models are looking excellent and are matched by some truly fantastic animation.

[MamboCat]

Watching that video gave me some stuff to think about:

 

1. That guy's voice is sooo annoying.

 

2. As bad as Sonic's ring nomming is, I dunno if Knuckles' "THERE ARE THINGS INSIDE THESE THINGS" is worse. It's like, eugh, they really did make him into the stupid character, didn't they?

 

Yknow that's exactly what I was thinking; 1) gottatalkfast! and 2) Oh Knuckles is an idiot here too?!

 

When will Sega cut the echidna some slack?! :/

[Willsy]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the difficulty. It apparently changes depending on how well the player is doing. Honestly, if they bothered to put that in there, I can't see the game being that bad. If you ask me, that's a great system to implement, and it couldn't have been simple to implement either (but I'm no game developer so correct me if I'm wrong).

[frostman007]

Trying not to comment on much right now, since it always takes time for stuff to sink in and I want people to have some time with the footage and screens before I try to jump in and answer questions, etc. I did want to say, though, that speed sections are not just isolated to roads that connect hubs to levels. There are also speed sections and roads, etc. within levels and hubs. Each of the levels that you are seeing footage from has speed sections in them. We just didn't show them because they aren't going to be at E3.

 

The E3 demo covers the same areas that you have seen footage of and was chosen to clearly represent what the differences are in Sonic Boom versus a normal "Sonic" title developed by Sonic Team. The levels chosen also feature more of a dark look with very little green or natural colors because, again, we wanted to clearly show some of the differences in the game. That's not to say that we don't have greenery, water, etc. and other more-natural things. But I think that is what people generally expect, so we chose to show something different.

 

The last thing I wanted is for people who are generally not that familiar to Sonic to look at the E3 demo and just say it looks the same... I don't get how this is different. So, we erred on the side on the side of making sure everything looked different than normal. The sections chosen, such as the specific parts of the levels, the boss fight, the speed section were all chosen to represent, again, clear differences between this game and the normal branch of Sonic... and also are tuned to make sure everyone gets through them all. They do not represent final challenge, etc. that you will see in the final game. 

 

Anyway, enough with my talking... I just wanted to clear up some things. I'll let you all get back to your discussions and I look forward to popping back in after E3 to see how things have settled.

 

As always, thanks for your support and for sharing your opinions of the games.

[DarkRula]

Either Frost's computer is stuck on this thread, or he's been eyeing up some of the major Sonic forums for reactions for the better part of five hours now.

Still, a different continuity. And, as others have said, a spin-off. As far as I'm aware, a spin off can do whatever it wants to a franchise, as long as the main characters and "World-feel" is still there. I know people keep bringing up comparisons, but Mario has many spin-offs, some of which have no notion of platforming in them whatsoever. Why can't the Sonic franchise be different?

I know people were expecting Boom to keep the main platforming and speed elements around, but a combat focus in a Sonic game can't be the end of the world now, can it?

 

EDIT - And as I posted this, he had posted. Guess I was right. Sort of.

[Tara]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the difficulty. It apparently changes depending on how well the player is doing. Honestly, if they bothered to put that in there, I can't see the game being that bad. If you ask me, that's a great system to implement, and it couldn't have been simple to implement either (but I'm no game developer so correct me if I'm wrong).

Adaptive difficulty is something that's been done before and as far as I've seen it's never really had much of an effect.  Like, if you're really good at a game, the increased difficulty doesn't seem to change that, assuming you even notice it at all.  Likewise, if you're bad at a game, the lower difficulty is barely noticeable and doesn't even help.

 

If someone can provide an example of it working well, feel free, but from what I've seen, it's one of those "sounds really smart on paper, but in actual practice isn't that great" ideas.

[Diogenes]

Variable difficulty isn't going to save a game that isn't fun to play.

And whether it ends up helping or not comes down to how they implement it. Halving enemy HP after the player dies X times in a level would be easy to implement, but not very fulfilling.

And worst case scenario, they might end up relying on the scaling difficulty to balance the game rather than balancing it properly themselves.

[frostman007]

The scaling difficulty only makes things easier for people who are having a very difficult time. It will not make the game harder. For people who want to take on a harder experience, we are working on something for them, as well.

[Naysu]

looking back to that snake villain Lyric. I love me some reptile characters, and I am loking forward to seeing him in action, but I can't help shake the feeling that his head is absolutely tiny. For a sonic game that Sticks calls home, and she looks like she fits in with the cast, Lyric seems like he doesn't quite fit in (not that he has a bad design, i love his design)

 

I guess I just expected him to resemble Sticks more along the lines of this:

 

(took me about 15 seconds, excuse the lack of effort)

 

compared to this:

Of course I know he will look way better animated, as the main cast look way better than their concept art

[SlickEvan]

Yknow that's exactly what I was thinking; 1) gottatalkfast! and 2) Oh Knuckles is an idiot here too?!

 

When will Sega cut the echidna some slack?! :/

 

How do you know he's an idiot? We've still heard so little, now don't tell me about the line he says as that's a gimmie it's "idiotic" but in hind-sight as others have said it could just be a different take on "idiot" like, he's the dumb joke guy of the group who isn't intellectually dumb, but says jokes that are pretty silly. I kinda see it that way, and actually like it. But as it will always boil down to, it's whatever floats your boat.

[Krockhead]

Remember when this was first announced and the PR guys from BRB were talking about how their biggest inspirations for this game were Sonic 2 and Sonic Adventure? I guess what they really meant was Sonic Dash and the Werehog, because that's all I'm seeing from this footage.

 

I won't write this off completely because it is easy. But this sure didn't help anything for me. The graphics aren't colorful at all, the details look dull and monotonous, and everything looks blurry. I just rewatched the original teaser, and it looked crisp as hell. What happened to that? I want THAT build! Combat is fine, but this isn't the way to it. There doesn't appear to be any variety at all. And the speed, good god the speed. This is like Lost World without the run button. No, that's giving them too much credit, this looks like Silver in 06! Star Fox Adventures is not fitting for Star Fox at all, but I can forgive it because it's great for what it is. I would excuse Sonic Boom for not being Sonic-y if it were good for what it was, but this just looks boring.

 

Let's talk about the  "speed" section, shall we. Here's the thing about speed sections in Sonic, they can be saving graces for me. I still replay Unleashed in spite of the Werehog because I adore the daytime sections. Despite not liking two thirds of Sonic Adventure 2, I still replay the game because I thoroughly enjoy Sonic and Shadow's levels. But from what we have seen on this game's "speed" sections, they don't look like they can redeem the dull, monotonous combat, they're so uninspired. It's like someone who has never played a Sonic game and only knows that he's supposed to run fast designed these levels. This is as linear as Sonic has ever gotten.

 

I do like Lyric's design. My first though was that he looks like something out of the Archie Comics. Mostly, it's because I think reptiles are cool.

 

EDIT: Frost, you ninja! You just had to make a post addressing one of my biggest complaints while I was posting.

[Sean]

Watching the videos again I'm sorta liking what I see a little more, but I'm still not heavily interested and I might just have to try it at a friend's house or kiosk demo. I also don't think either version of the game looks ugly in the least, but they're missing recognizable traits from previous Sonic games. I even think that Unleashed handled the realistic take on Sonic's world far better than this one, which doesn't seem to quite know if it wants to go for a realistic or surreal appearance. None of the environments stand out to me as unique, whereas nearly all of Unleashed's settings do.

If anything, I think the combat sections look serviceable but I'm not really liking the speed sections too much. They remind me a lot of Unleashed PS2 in how empty they seem.

[Willsy]

Thanks for clearing things up Stephen. So there are speed sections within the adventure stages?

Hype levels restored then. I'm really happy to hear this though, I was worried that there would be no speed in the levels whatsoever.

The scaling difficulty only makes things easier for people who are having a very difficult time. It will not make the game harder. For people who want to take on a harder experience, we are working on something for them, as well.

New game plus mode, like the Batman Arkham games?

[Badnik Mechanic]

that speed sections are not just isolated to roads that connect hubs to levels. There are also speed sections and roads, etc. within levels and hubs. Each of the levels that you are seeing footage from has speed sections in them. We just didn't show them because they aren't going to be at E3.

 

The problem with this.

 

We have seen two videos showing different levels/speed sections. And in both videos, I'm presuming they're both from different builds, they're just so empty.

 

It was a complaint when Boom was first announced and noticed by a large number of people, that the speed sections didn't look like there were any enemies, items or traps in these segments of the game.

 

Today we've had a segment showing another speed level, which was over 40 seconds long, and it was just so barren, no enemies, no items, no traps.

 

Are they all like this? Is it literally just a path with the occasional jump and enderbeam swing/jump?

[Red Hot Jack]

 

Today we've had a segment showing another speed level, which was over 40 seconds long, and it was just so barren, no enemies, no items, no traps.

 

Actually, no. If you watch the video-interview, you'll notice various obstacles to avoid on your path, and various gimmicks aside from the enerbeam. It's your typical match speed zone, though Steven is saying speed sections are also within normal stages... we'll see.

[MamboCat]

 

How do you know he's an idiot? We've still heard so little, now don't tell me about the line he says as that's a gimmie it's "idiotic" but in hind-sight as others have said it could just be a different take on "idiot" like, he's the dumb joke guy of the group who isn't intellectually dumb, but says jokes that are pretty silly. I kinda see it that way, and actually like it. But as it will always boil down to, it's whatever floats your boat.

 

It's not so much what he said; but the tone of the little soundbite; ooooh there's RINGS in here! as though he didn't know, or was surprised that an item box has items in it. Don't get me wrong, it was a well delivered line, but to me it just sounded a little "oooh, Knuckles you bonehead!"

 

I don't like that kind of humour; it's not particularly original to have a character that says dumb stuff and everyone knows they're not the sharpest pencil in the tin. I mean, he could be a little more like say, Jake the Dog who sometimes says really ridiculous, badly thought-through things, but the mannerisms of the character gives off a different air. Jake is definitely not stupid, and isn't the butt of anyone else's jokes.

 

Do you see the difference, there?

[Tara]

It was a complaint when Boom was first announced and noticed by a large number of people, that the speed sections didn't look like there were any enemies, items or traps in these segments of the game.

I actually really don't mind the barren nature of it.  Like, I mean, sure there are plenty of things they could do to add life to it, but I've always curious to see a Sonic game where the main obstacle is the actual environment over enemies and Eggman traps.  So if the game incorporates something like that, I think it could yield some rather interesting results.

[Detective Shadzter]

Game Informer preview

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/sonic_boom/b/wii_u/archive/2014/06/02/the-different-faces-of-sonic-boom.aspx

As you upgrade later in the game, characters will work together for finishing moves or to cause more damage together

 

[Blue Blood]

Game Informer preview

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/sonic_boom/b/wii_u/archive/2014/06/02/the-different-faces-of-sonic-boom.aspx

 

Something tells me that this game, like the Werehog in Unleashed, isn't going to be very enjoyable until you've already completed it. Could be wrong, but the combat we've seen in the footage doesn't look massively fun at the moment partially cause it seems to take a while to get anything done. The Werehog had the same problem until you'd levelled up a lot and returned to the earlier stages (though the later stages still gave enemies more health and suffered for it).

[Tani Coyote]

How are you guys hearing dialogue? All the clips I watch have commentary over them.

Almost looks like a tribal hedgehog statue holding that giant ring in one part.