Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[horridus]

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/575864110933352448

Even though my account was lost, I remain vigilant for stupidity, bad art, and other nonsense. This is a original draft of Knuckles 20YL.

 

What the hell is up with that composition?? Those panels are laid out like a "Z"... what the hell is going on here?? And why the fuck is she riding a pasha to the city and away, knowing she's pregnant??

 

First off. That art. Ew.

 

Second off, I've already found a plothole. Lara-Su is quite clearly a teen in M25YL. Meaning she has to be around 15-16. Yet, at the beginning of Knuckles: 20 Years Later, She's not even born yet? Apparently echidna babies must have some kind of super ageing bullshit. Or Penders just didn't think it through once again.

 

Third off, That art is terrible.

 

Fourthly, this is just as terrible a way to start a story as M25YL was. There's no lead in, there's no build up. It just drops us straight into some random character who we don't give a shit about telling another character something. It doesn't feel like it's a flowing story. It feels like clunky and rushed exposition that couldn't be bothered to actually attempt to build it up. 

 

Did I mention that art is just horrible in every way, shape and form?

 

Ah, slight correction; that's Julie-Su, not Lara. Though admittedly, they look kinda identical here...

[Ryannumber1gamer]

What the hell is up with that composition?? Those panels are laid out like a "Z"... what the hell is going on here?? And why the fuck is she riding a pasha to the city and away, knowing she's pregnant??

 

 

Ah, slight correction; that's Julie-Su, not Lara. Though admittedly, they look kinda identical here...

 

No. I said Lara-Su isn't born yet in the story. Julie-Su is there in the room and the doctor tells her that she's having a baby. The plot hole is that Lara is a teen in M25YL but she's not born yet in K20YL

[therealfalconpawnch77]

No. I said Lara-Su isn't born yet in the story. Julie-Su is there in the room and the doctor tells her that she's having a baby. The plot hole is that Lara is a teen in M25YL but she's not born yet in K20YL

That's actually probably not a plot hole. It is possible that either A. This takes place before the 20 year mark, and Lara is actually younger, or B. Penders changed his mind about how he wanted Lara to be in the story.

[Oscillo]

That's actually probably not a plot hole. It is possible that either A. This takes place before the 20 year mark, and Lara is actually younger, or B. Penders changed his mind about how he wanted Lara to be in the story.

This is more about Penders various claims about how that this is how his Archie stories should have continued had he continued being in charge, I think (it's hard to tell at this point). But then again, he's also said that they are & aren't in the same universe, so who knows?

[Ryannumber1gamer]

If that was the case, then it's once again the problem with the build up. You can't just throw the reader into a random situation and expect them to go straight along with it. For this type of story, you have to set up a common ground so we know what the setting is and what's happening. If that was the case, then he should have given us a lead in so we know that Knuckles 20 Years Later is taking place at a  earlier time.

[horridus]

Either way, this thing is.... really stupid. Besides the layout, Julie's reaction to the idea of having kids is... waaaay too happy. Like. With her life, there should at least be a little bit doubt, and even if she was overjoyed, kissing and hugging the doctor is a little much, and again, not something I would expect from Julie-Su even if she had mellowed a LOT by that point.

 

Also, I'm curious; why does this super advanced city use horses (or Pashas or whatever) so often that they actually have a trough to keep them at?? Is this a rural area? Does Echidnaopolis even HAVE rural areas?

 

Also... that doctor guy looks like Ken Penders Classic. Just putting that out there.

[Jason Berry]

LOL I LOVE how she finds out she's pregnant, and then gets on a fucking horse! Which, of course, is the best thing you can do when pregnant. All that bouncing up and down.

 

Not to defend Penders, but lay off on the art. t's a rough pencil draft. Not meant for publishing.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Either way, this thing is.... really stupid. Besides the layout, Julie's reaction to the idea of having kids is... waaaay too happy. Like. With her life, there should at least be a little bit doubt, and even if she was overjoyed, kissing and hugging the doctor is a little much, and again, not something I would expect from Julie-Su even if she had mellowed a LOT by that point.

 

Also, I'm curious; why does this super advanced city use horses (or Pashas or whatever) so often that they actually have a trough to keep them at?? Is this a rural area? Does Echidnaopolis even HAVE rural areas?

 

Also... that doctor guy looks like Ken Penders Classic. Just putting that out there.

 

LOL I LOVE how she finds out she's pregnant, and then gets on a fucking horse! Which, of course, is the best thing you can do when pregnant. All that bouncing up and down.

Also...when did regular horses exist in this universe?

[horridus]

Also...when did regular horses exist in this universe?

 

Ah, that ain't a horse; it's a 'pasha'... which is basically an alien sci-fi horse, so really, same difference. 

[Oscillo]

Ah, that ain't a horse; it's a 'pasha'... which is basically an alien sci-fi horse, so really, same difference. 

Is this something Ken Penders made up?

 

If it is, I wonder if he realizes that Pasha can actually mean several things, including actual names, a military rank in the Ottoman Empire, & some religious things (Pertaining to Hinduism & Islam, nothing overly important though). I'm not saying that out of offense, more out of how you really need to look into & think about what you're putting in a story before you put something that will look silly to some people in.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Oscillo-Kaworu

[Neon Zephyr]

Also...when did regular horses exist in this universe?

 "Pashas" have been in the book as a normal thing since at least the old Knuckles book (though there may have been a few others in cameo), and I also vaguely recall Elias using one when he rode to Castle Acorn to stop (Anti)Antoine from being crowned king. While I assume the animal exists in a similar form in the reboot (horses are common work animals in certain regions' development), they're certainly not called pashas anymore.  

 

Also, yes, I do recall reading somewhere that the original idea for the MXYL thing started with a bit about 5ish years in the future first with something like this, but I still think it was a meh idea (also, apparently the future being 25 years later instead of 20 was part of the editor's input when it had to be reworked from a SSS story to a backup for the main book?)

 

And, yeah, that is a kinda really weird reaction. So, this would be 5ish years after present, assuming time frames (Lara's 15ish, and it was originally a 20YL thing). So Julie would be 20/21ish here. Uh, I know that everyone reacts differently but, if I had become pregnant when I was 20/21, even if I'd been in a relationship with the father since 16, I'd be utterly terrified from the word go. My mother had me at 21; she tells me all the time that--while she never once didn't want me, especially once I was born and in her arms--she was scared the entire pregnancy about the mere idea of being a parent, about messing up, about messing me up. And, Julie has not demonstrated any desire for a future family as a teenager in any real form. Babies are a huge deal. Life-changing. Julie-Su is not a late 30's/early 40's individual who has been trying to get pregnant for years here. She's 20/21. 

 

I dunno, but something here is sending creep chills down my spine.

 

EDIT: "Go thank the father?" I get the playfulness intended here, but this line kinda just skeeves me out, too. I don't know if this is what was sending those chills, but....

[horridus]

Is this something Ken Penders made up?

 

If it is, I wonder if he realizes that Pasha can actually mean several things, including actual names, a military rank in the Ottoman Empire, & some religious things (Pertaining to Hinduism & Islam, nothing overly important though). I'm not saying that out of offense, more out of how you really need to look into & think about what you're putting in a story before you put something that will look silly to some people in.

 

Yep, it's something he made up, and yes, it became really, really weird to read once I learnt what 'pasha' means here on Earth. 

[QuantumEdge]

Well, there goes a lot of fun times.  Ah well, guess you can't keep everything in life.  Also, I'd like to just say welcome back Biznizz.  Sorry you had to return in a pretty rough time for the site. 

[horridus]

And someone has asked things regarding Penders recently revealed Series-To-Never-Be.

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/575921729249247233

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/575922529895780352

 

Sooo yeah, evidently readers really were meant to read that weird 'z' formatting of the panels. And 'echydnya' females are stronger than human females and so can ride horses while pregnant with ease. 

 

Eeeyup.

[QuantumEdge]

Riiiight, seems legit.  But isn't making a page layout like that not usually done because it makes it harder to follow along?  I don't know, it seems a pretty easy way in confusing you than making it easier to read.

[horridus]

Riiiight, seems legit.  But isn't making a page layout like that not usually done because it makes it harder to follow along?  I don't know, it seems a pretty easy way in confusing you than making it easier to read.

That's precisely why it isn't done; when making a comic book page, panels follow a succession that is easy to process, hence right to left or left to right. This 'z' shaped thing however is needlessly complicated and all over the place. I cannot imagine any professional comic artist on the planet thinking that this would be an acceptable way to do things. And no... Penders isn't a pro. He's a dolt who lucked out, over and over again. 

[QuantumEdge]

Suddenly I wonder if Penders wrote a novel, you'd have to read one line from the left, then one from the right simply because he thought it's easier to read

[horridus]

Suddenly I wonder if Penders wrote a novel, you'd have to read one line from the left, then one from the right simply because he thought it's easier to read

 

No, he'd just copy paste a bunch of paragraphs from other novels, change the names and put it in large print and then claim it was a 'literary collage'. 

[Oscillo]

Sooo yeah, evidently readers really were meant to read that weird 'z' formatting of the panels. And 'echydnya' females are stronger than human females and so can ride horses while pregnant with ease. 

 

Eeeyup.

 

.Is it odd I only just realized this? I had thought that the storyboard made little sense...

[Salamander]

Now if only the past six months of Penders's work had also disappeared.  "And nothing of value was lost."

[Oscillo]

Now if only the past six months of Penders's work had also disappeared.  "And nothing of value was lost."

But we'll still have it in our memories, afraid.

 

Sorry, but looking up variations of 'bad artwork' on Google images gave me exactly one picture worse than anything of TLSC I'd seen. I really would like to say good about his art, but having done that, I give up on any hopes on him improving his work by much.

[Verb & Noun]

I was going to write a long reply describing why that paneling was terrible but I'll just let Scott McCloud say it for me.

 

Thanks Mr. McCloud.

There's a time and a place for 'experimental' layouts. This page is not served appropriately by it.

[biznizz]

The odd thing is that Penders, to my knowledge, hadn't done that kind of layout before or since. Not even with a turd pile like Sonic Live.

So why did he think it would've been acceptable with 20YL without a 'read my comic this way to get my genius' guideline at the beginning?

[Verb & Noun]

Wait I just realized-
Fenders is rationalizing that the reason it's okay for Julie-Su to ride on a horse (bareback) after being told she's pregnant is because her species are stronger than humans, but that's directly contradicted by the doctor telling her not to do anything unless until necessary.

 

Editing- I think I actually misread the page. That's how badly the paneling throws things off. I think it's going "thank the father because -I- don't do anything until necessary". Because the paneling is so disorienting it fragments the conversation. Bad, bad, bad.

[horridus]

Wait I just realized-

Fenders is rationalizing that the reason it's okay for Julie-Su to ride on a horse (bareback) after being told she's pregnant is because her species are stronger than humans, but that's directly contradicted by the doctor telling her not to do anything unless until necessary.

 

Editing- I think I actually misread the page. That's how badly the paneling throws things off. I think it's going "thank the father because -I- don't do anything until necessary". Because the paneling is so disorienting it fragments the conversation. Bad, bad, bad.

 

I don't even know anymore, man. This page is formatted so badly it's hard to tell what's being spoken in what order.