Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[horridus]

Alrighty, not quite LAra-Su, but related in the sense that Penders considers Lara-Su to be a legitimate continuation of his work in Sonic, buuut the news of the Comic's cancellation prompted this, along with a subsequent tweetstorm. 

Aand from there it soon devolved into an argument (feauturing our own SBR2) wherein he doesn't really elaborate on why SEGA would permit him to reprint stories and even seems to be somewhat offended by the idea that he would have to ask them/treat that as a factor, devolving into the typical insults about how they know nothing of copyright law and so on and so forth. 

So, probably asking a silly question here, but does anybody with any deeper knowledge of Copyright Law know what he could possibly be going on about? SEGA owns Knuckles, the Chaotix, Sonic and the SatAM cast. To print the stories, Ken needs to ask permission. SEGA is unlikely to give said permission because he doesn't have near the resources of a comic book company, nor do his stories mesh with what they want out of the franchise. Yet Ken doesn't seem all that concerned. Anyone got any explanations? Caause I've reached the extent of my understanding of copyright law.

[Tylinos]

46 minutes ago, horridus said:

So, probably asking a silly question here, but does anybody with any deeper knowledge of Copyright Law know what he could possibly be going on about? SEGA owns Knuckles, the Chaotix, Sonic and the SatAM cast. To print the stories, Ken needs to ask permission. SEGA is unlikely to give said permission because he doesn't have near the resources of a comic book company, nor do his stories mesh with what they want out of the franchise. Yet Ken doesn't seem all that concerned. Anyone got any explanations? Caause I've reached the extent of my understanding of copyright law.

My assumption is he does know he would need to involve SEGA, and simply thinks they'd be more than happy to strike a reprint deal with him now that Archie is no longer involved, but is doing a terrible job of explaining himself.

[horridus]

3 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

My assumption is he does know he would need to involve SEGA, and simply thinks they'll be more than happy to strike a reprint deal with him now that Archie is no longer involved, but is doing a terrible job of explaining himself.

That's what I would assume as well, given that beyond him having incriminating photos of the heads of SEGA I really cannot for the life of me figure out why he would think he could reprint books without SEGA getting involved.

Also, a new bit of art, made for the App...  The App that is... being showcased at ComicCon....

Don't ask me, jut look at the 'pretty' picture.

I'll say this much- his penciled work looks a lot better before he starts digitally coloring and inking it. He'd be a lot better off just sticking to traditional methods, visually. 

 

[horridus]

Ah, sorry for the double post folks, but this gets people's attention better. 

Penders has just demonstrated the uncolored new design for Julie-Su.

Also, evidently she is a doctor of some sort now. Words fail me, and my head just shakes sadly at the fact the old continuty and the old book died so that Penders could pretty much warp his character into someone near totally different. Then again, his characters always were more set-pieces than proper characters...

[MightyRay]

6 hours ago, horridus said:

Don't ask me, jut look at the 'pretty' picture.

I'll say this much- his penciled work looks a lot better before he starts digitally coloring and inking it. He'd be a lot better off just sticking to traditional methods, visually. 

 

2 hours ago, horridus said:

Penders has just demonstrated the uncolored new design for Julie-Su.

Lara-su has a pencil waist and Juile-Su looks like a librarian. The thing however as of late that now has been really bugging me is the LOIN CLOTHS! Why are these characters wearing fucking modern clothes up top and just LOIN CLOTHS for the bottom?!

News flash, that isn't the way to show off that you have an alien race, it just shows that you are bad at fashion design!

[King Scoopa Koopa]

10 hours ago, horridus said:

Ah, sorry for the double post folks, but this gets people's attention better. 

Penders has just demonstrated the uncolored new design for Julie-Su.

Also, evidently she is a doctor of some sort now. Words fail me, and my head just shakes sadly at the fact the old continuty and the old book died so that Penders could pretty much warp his character into someone near totally different. Then again, his characters always were more set-pieces than proper characters...

Makes one think it was more out of pure spite that he did it, rather than any true attachment to the characters he made or desire to continue the story he'd written. Would go a long way to explaining why it's taking so long (almost halfway to it LITERALLY being "25 years later") and he's only "just getting started" figuring anything out.

[horridus]

7 hours ago, Mightyray said:

 

Lara-su has a pencil waist and Juile-Su looks like a librarian. The thing however as of late that now has been really bugging me is the LOIN CLOTHS! Why are these characters wearing fucking modern clothes up top and just LOIN CLOTHS for the bottom?!

News flash, that isn't the way to show off that you have an alien race, it just shows that you are bad at fashion design!

The reason is because Penders has both an incredibly limited idea of how to make clothes appear 'alien', while at the same time having a design sense that is even more limited. Part of the reason for these redesigns is because he isn't the one who actually designed a lot of the characters, which goes a long way towards explaining things. One character he DID design directly was Locke, and Locke's attire pretty much consists of a bathrobe. Though hey, at least she bucks the tunic trend by having a JACKET as well as a tunic! Progress!

1 minute ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

Makes one think it was more out of pure spite that he did it, rather than any true attachment to the characters he made or desire to continue the story he'd written. Would go a long way to explaining why it's taking so long (almost halfway to it LITERALLY being "25 years later") and he's only "just getting started" figuring anything out.

I've wondered myself, but honestly? I think the more probable reason is because, as I said, Penders treats his characters as set-pieces more than actual characters. He has a weirdly clinical view of characters and writing, more akin to the kind of thinking an executive exhibits than a true creative. It's why his writing lacks a lot of heart, and its why his characters have so little to them- because they're not really 'characters' in the sense most people understand. They're a design and a handful of traits that can be altered at a whim depending on what Penders feels like doing. Recall he once claimed he'd be totally okay with Julie-Su losing an arm and momentarily engaging in a lesbian relationship, provided she goes back to Knuckles. These are not the words of a man who has thought over every aspect of a character's being.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

49 minutes ago, horridus said:

I've wondered myself, but honestly? I think the more probable reason is because, as I said, Penders treats his characters as set-pieces more than actual characters. He has a weirdly clinical view of characters and writing, more akin to the kind of thinking an executive exhibits than a true creative. It's why his writing lacks a lot of heart, and its why his characters have so little to them- because they're not really 'characters' in the sense most people understand. They're a design and a handful of traits that can be altered at a whim depending on what Penders feels like doing. Recall he once claimed he'd be totally okay with Julie-Su losing an arm and momentarily engaging in a lesbian relationship, provided she goes back to Knuckles. These are not the words of a man who has thought over every aspect of a character's being.

Lara Su and friends are the robots, while Penders is the mad scientist who programs them into whatever he wants them to be, but they're still ultimately disposable to him.

[SBR2]

16 hours ago, horridus said:

Alrighty, not quite LAra-Su, but related in the sense that Penders considers Lara-Su to be a legitimate continuation of his work in Sonic, buuut the news of the Comic's cancellation prompted this, along with a subsequent tweetstorm. 

Aand from there it soon devolved into an argument (feauturing our own SBR2) wherein he doesn't really elaborate on why SEGA would permit him to reprint stories and even seems to be somewhat offended by the idea that he would have to ask them/treat that as a factor, devolving into the typical insults about how they know nothing of copyright law and so on and so forth. 

So, probably asking a silly question here, but does anybody with any deeper knowledge of Copyright Law know what he could possibly be going on about? SEGA owns Knuckles, the Chaotix, Sonic and the SatAM cast. To print the stories, Ken needs to ask permission. SEGA is unlikely to give said permission because he doesn't have near the resources of a comic book company, nor do his stories mesh with what they want out of the franchise. Yet Ken doesn't seem all that concerned. Anyone got any explanations? Caause I've reached the extent of my understanding of copyright law.

I'm glad you didn't use mine here. It's pretty Profanity laden. I think this legitimately broke me.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

16 hours ago, horridus said:

I'll say this much- his penciled work looks a lot better before he starts digitally coloring and inking it. He'd be a lot better off just sticking to traditional methods, visually. 

 

I'll agree with this: the pencilling looks better here. Now I see the problem with Penders' art: the coloring and overusage of shading in some places affect the penciling.

13 hours ago, horridus said:

Ah, sorry for the double post folks, but this gets people's attention better. 

Penders has just demonstrated the uncolored new design for Julie-Su.

Also, evidently she is a doctor of some sort now. Words fail me, and my head just shakes sadly at the fact the old continuty and the old book died so that Penders could pretty much warp his character into someone near totally different. Then again, his characters always were more set-pieces than proper characters...

Now the design choices on the other hand...no.

Well, it explains the white lab coat she was wearing on that Twitter banner...but why the loincloths. It's not alien like, it just looks really weird on the characters. 

And the loincloth itself is pretty short. O_O;

[horridus]

1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

I'm glad you didn't use mine here. It's pretty Profanity laden. I think this legitimately broke me.

Can't say I blame ya. Hard to believe this man functions in the same world as the rest of us. 

39 minutes ago, Fusion Ellipsis said:

Well, it explains the white lab coat she was wearing on that Twitter banner...but why the loincloths. It's not alien like, it just looks really weird on the characters. 

And the loincloth itself is pretty short. O_O;

Welcome to the wonderful world of Penders' sense of design. Tunics and loincloths, or variations thereof, as far as the eye can see.

[RobotnikHolmes]

Why's he retconning Julie-Su as a doctor? Didn't Penders always make her out to be a tough, independent former soldier who could still kick butt? Not saying that doctors can't be bad-ass, but going by his recent depictions of her you'd think she's been replaced by a completely different character.

Jezus, Penders is like the biggest Memetic Loser in the Sonic franchise. Bigger than Tommy Turtle himself

[SonicComicFanboy]

 My theory is Penders is actually from an alternate reality and infiltrated this one to spread his madness . 

[horridus]

54 minutes ago, RobotnikHolmes said:

Why's he retconning Julie-Su as a doctor? Didn't Penders always make her out to be a tough, independent former soldier who could still kick butt? Not saying that doctors can't be bad-ass, but going by his recent depictions of her you'd think she's been replaced by a completely different character.

Jezus, Penders is like the biggest Memetic Loser in the Sonic franchise. Bigger than Tommy Turtle himself

Here's what Penders himself had to say about it. 

I'd almost wager this is the result of the complaints about the fact that Julie didn't really do anything, but rather than actually address the meat of the issue he just went into this opposite extreme to justify her continuing to not really do anything despite his insistences in the past. 

Frankly though, I'd just as soon say she really isn't Julie-Su anymore. She has the name because people recognize it, but she just isn't the same character. It's pitiful is, what it is, that he went to such lengths only to butcher the character on a whim. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

I'd say he's just angling for some of that sweet, sweet Dr. Mario puzzle game tie-in cash, but I feel like him recognizing any part of that equation is unlikely.

[The Tenth Doctor]

So he's changed Julie-Su from Warrior chick to Stay in Librarian? Hmm, what nerd character that got popular and has an affiliation with Knuckles am I thinking of here?

[SonicComicFanboy]

27 minutes ago, The Tenth Doctor said:

So he's changed Julie-Su from Warrior chick to Stay in Librarian? Hmm, what nerd character that got popular and has an affiliation with Knuckles am I thinking of here?

  Well now i'm reminded that Relic exists and that we will probably never see her again. 

 

...or Cassia, or Clove.......

 

excuse me I need to find a good corner to go curl up and cry in....

[Adamis]

5 hours ago, Fusion Ellipsis said:

I'll agree with this: the pencilling looks better here. Now I see the problem with Penders' art: the coloring and overusage of shading in some places affect the penciling.

Indeed. The inked pages of TLSC he sent me look decent, even good in some places.

[antyep]

4 minutes ago, Adamis said:

Indeed. The inked pages of TLSC he sent me look decent, even good in some places.

Yea from what I heard, he's a decent inker. Now if he only pursuit in being an inker for other comics rather than causing all this BS everyone would be happier. But of course he wanted MORE

[horridus]

3 hours ago, The Tenth Doctor said:

So he's changed Julie-Su from Warrior chick to Stay in Librarian? Hmm, what nerd character that got popular and has an affiliation with Knuckles am I thinking of here?

Heh, a nice theory there matey, and one I would not dispute... save for the fact that Penders doesn't read Flynn's work, or so he says. THough given his deep, abiding disdain for Flynn's work and anything NOT connected to his own stories, even then it'd be a stretch. 

Amusing to think about, tho!

[RetroRy]

Yeah...I doubt your version would sell better too. 

Man is a bit salty to learn the party goes on without him still, huh?

[SonicComicFanboy]

Is this A real tweet?

 

Good lord we have reached PEAK EGOCENTRIC DENIAL here.  I fear Ken is dangerously out of touch with reality.  Maybe Archie, IDW & SEGA should consider getting restraining orders on him, cause this sounds alot like what a creeper would say before he tries to off his ex-wife & their new fiancee.  I am legit worried for people's safty now... Ken is just getting flat out scary!

[horridus]

Now now fellas, this is the LSC thread, not the point and laugh at Uncle Ken thread. We already had the thread templocked over this sort of behavior, so please, let's just stick with anything LSC related, okay? Given that Sonic will live on in comic form and that Penders' asinine attempt to take advantage of Archie's cancellation have been pretty thoroughly squashed, it's only natural to assume he's going to be in maximum manbaby mode for the next few days. So what's say we get back on track and focus on LSC?

[BlueSky]

Well, what I'd like to say about that pencils only artwork is I -as many others in here- consider it looking better than the stuff we've usually seen.

It's pretty sad, but then again I suppose he does have the right to do as he wants, it is his stuff after all, though, if he wants to sell it he needs to pick a style for the audience or he needs to start looking for the audience that likes the artwork he likes to produce.

For me it seems he's doing the latter. I hope he makes it work, since, well... I'm not yet feeling like I must buy these comics. The concept is interesting, but still, there's some stuff that feels too alien for me in a not-alien way... Like I know it's about aliens but these aliens look a bit too alien for me to look like aliens, if you can manage to decipher my babbling.

[Salamander]

Ken is in dreamland if he ever believed that Sega would let him reprint old Archie material.  We'll step aside from the question of whether they want anyone republishing old Archie material for a moment, although Ken doubtless thinks they would for the same reason he thinks they'd trust him with it: Because he believes that absolutely everything boils down to money, and that that is the sole factor in any interaction between businesses.  What he fails to take into account, consistently, are reputation and trust - because if he were to do so, he would have to confront the fact that his own reputation is completely toxic.  Quite aside from the fact that the fanbase despises him, there's the not insignificant matter of the fact that he literally personally sued Sega; that this man's actions are in all likelihood the very reason why the deal with Archie eventually fell through; that he is even now attempting to start up a bootleg Archie comic about Knuckles's daughter, featuring Knuckles himself; that he has, I understand, intimated a belief that he owns Eggman.  Are Sega really going to look at a person with this history and say to themselves, "Yeah, he seems like a person we can trust"?

This fixation on reclaiming Archie is really something of a tragedy for him.  Were he just able to move on from his obsession with Archie and his own glory years, and maybe take a bit of artistic criticism, he might even be able to make something good.