Sonic Lost World: First Cut Scene Now Online

[Aquaslash]

Sonic Unleashed? Dark? Are you serious? I've seen darker stories from Pixar movies.

 

 

 

When was anyone clamoring for the Unleashed story staff to come back? And since when did anyone clamor for Unleashed's 'darkness'? And wait a minute...since when was Unleashed 'dark' to start with?

 

In what universe did anything I said ever state or imply that Unleashed had dark elements?

[Nepenthe]

But... but it does have dark elements..... Like Dark Gaia. S'pretty fuckin' dark thing in the game.... S'in the name even.

[Aquaslash]

^ that's not the point I was making though.  I'm pretty sure I'm a broken record when it comes to unleashed, so I won't force you to suffer through that again unless I need to.

 

 

 

- Eggman to be taken seriously a bit more. Eggman was great in Colours but he wasn't in any real way treated as a villain who was to be taken truly seriously. How can I when the characters don't?

 

 

Watch Eggman in that part of the scene; His body language and facial expression when the camera focuses upon him clearly shows that he's waiting for a split second when Sonic is distracted in order to press the button, he clearly exhibits opportunisticness, using his grovelling to feed Sonic's propensity for arrogant belittling and then pressing the button the second the Hedgehog is fully distracted.

 

 

 

This post again!  Disorganization ho!  First off, the world getting split in Unleashed is nowhere near as much Sonic's fault as it is Eggman's cunning.  That was the textbook definition of bait and switch.  It's almost like Megatron's gambit in the 86 Transformers movie.  Just as Megatron knew that Optimus was going to start monologuing if he begged for mercy, Eggman knew that Sonic was going to start smack talking if he did the same.  That was Eggman knowing his foe extremely well and planning for it.

 

THIS was Sonic just getting in the way when something didn't concern him, and all hell breakin loose because of it.  It's probably the first time Sonic has been 100% the catalyst for something screwy happening.

 

Next, why should Sonic, of all characters take Eggman remotely seriously?  Not only does he always win, but there has yet to be a casualty on the hero side.  In a way, it's kinda 4th wall breaking XD.  Sonic became aware that 99% of the time, he's an invincible hero! =P

 

It doesn't sound like Sonic was blaming Tails for anything; he's genuinely concerned for his friend's safety and is taking responsibility for his actions. I don't really like the English writers making Tails sound like a sarcastic jerk when Sonic probably already feels bad enough about what happened.

 

 

What "dark boner?" I wasn't aware the characters having personalities and the stories being more than "Hyuck, McNosehair!" was "dark." I level more blame on the English dub side of things mostly because they take the Japanese scripts and alter them to the point that we only know they are Sonic scripts because they are in a Sonic game. Of course, maybe the Japanese need to take some flack too, since they obviously aren't putting as much effort into writing stories for Sonic like they were four/five years ago.

 Since this point just flew over everyone's head, what I was getting at was that there were a couple of people in this thread "omg dark, I need the dark!  Dark in a sonic game", which to me makes zero sense, and I was trying to get some kind of understanding to their thought process. It was a completely separate statement from the thought that there was a desire for a return to Unleashed's story staff, which admittedly was the only assumption I could make from the many posts deriding the current story staff and praising Unleashed.

 

Really, all I can say is that I'd like to be actually entertained by these things for a change.  Colors, Free Riders, and to a lesser extent, Generations were entertaining to me.  The ONLY thing entertaining about Unleashed to me was playing as the Werehog.  If I have a choice, I'll happily take the former.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Legendary Aqua

[#EndyGate]

About two-thirds of Unleashed is played in night levels, so that makes the game approx. 66.6% dark, thus making Unleashed a pretty dark game.

Statistics don't lie, guys

Edited August 13, 2013 by Panda Cero

[Victoes]

About two-thirds of Unleashed is played in night levels, so that makes the game approx. 66.6% dark, thus making Unleashed a pretty dark game.

Statistics don't lie, guys

Oh Ho! I see what you did there.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

No seriously. What is up with the "dark" boner?

 Because being able to handle darker elements shows how well rounded, capable, intense, and deeply this series can be when you allow it to branch outside of just one tone.

[Dr. Mechano]

 Because being able to handle darker elements shows how well rounded, capable, intense, and deeply this series can be when you allow it to branch outside of just one tone.

Of course, Colors did have more than just one tone. It was lighthearted overall, but the plot was still about Eggman burning an entirely sentient species of aliens as fuel in order to rob an entire planet of its collective free will. It featured dramatic scenes highlighting both the cruelty the Wisps endured and foreshadowing of how effective the mind-control cannon could be if used on a global scale, after Sonic saw it used on Tails. These two elements alone are arguably darker than many of the classic games. Even the animals in the old games weren't destroyed by being Badnik power sources, unlike the Wisps; we also didn't really have any indication of how Eggman planned to control the planet's populace then either.

 

Obviously, Sonic also takes Eggman seriously enough as a threat to shove Tails into the elevator back to Earth as well. He spends most of the game wise-cracking, but when push comes to shove, he recognizes the Egg Nega Wisp is dangerous, and acts fairly responsibly about it.

 

Just as Sonic Adventure 2 was a darker (but not nearly as dark as most fans think) game, it still had lighthearted elements. Colors, by contrast, is a lighter game with dark elements. It absolutely has more than one tone throughout its narrative.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Doc Eggman

[Vertekins]

Of course, Colors did have more than just one tone. It was lighthearted overall, but the plot was still about Eggman burning an entirely sentient species of aliens as fuel in order to rob an entire planet of its collective free will. It featured dramatic scenes highlighting both the cruelty the Wisps endured and foreshadowing of how effective the mind-control cannon could be if used on a global scale, after Sonic saw it used on Tails. These two elements alone are arguably darker than many of the classic games. Even the animals in the old games weren't destroyed by being Badnik power sources, unlike the Wisps; we also didn't really have any indication of how Eggman planned to control the planet's populace then either.

 

Obviously, Sonic also takes Eggman seriously enough as a threat to shove Tails into the elevator back to Earth as well. He spends most of the game wise-cracking, but when push comes to shove, he recognizes the Egg Nega Wisp is dangerous, and acts fairly responsibly about it.

 

Just as Sonic Adventure 2 was a darker (but not nearly as dark as most fans think) game, it still had lighthearted elements. Colors, by contrast, is a lighter game with dark elements. It absolutely has more than one tone throughout its narrative.

And yet for me, all of that is undermined by the fact that it's all disregarded as soon as it's strictly no longer required. That and just like Shadow the Hedgehog, the game puts one tone above absolutely everything else and is so fixated with sticking to it to the wire that any serious scenes are stiff-armed and undermined by it as is the story progression.

I couldn't get invested in what was happening to the Wisps simply because they are characters that are hardly ever elaborated-upon as characters let alone victims. I think it says something about how utterly slipshod the writing in the Wii version is when the game's manual and the DS version elaborates more on the Wisp's personalities than it does. So no, the serious aspects of the Wisps exploitation and transformation doesn't strike me as compelling in any real way.

Egg Nega Wisp scene with Sonic pushing Tails into the elevator was cool though.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Of course, Colors did have more than just one tone. It was lighthearted overall, but the plot was still about Eggman burning an entirely sentient species of aliens as fuel in order to rob an entire planet of its collective free will. It featured dramatic scenes highlighting both the cruelty the Wisps endured and foreshadowing of how effective the mind-control cannon could be if used on a global scale, after Sonic saw it used on Tails. These two elements alone are arguably darker than many of the classic games. Even the animals in the old games weren't destroyed by being Badnik power sources, unlike the Wisps; we also didn't really have any indication of how Eggman planned to control the planet's populace then either.

 

Obviously, Sonic also takes Eggman seriously enough as a threat to shove Tails into the elevator back to Earth as well. He spends most of the game wise-cracking, but when push comes to shove, he recognizes the Egg Nega Wisp is dangerous, and acts fairly responsibly about it.

 

Just as Sonic Adventure 2 was a darker (but not nearly as dark as most fans think) game, it still had lighthearted elements. Colors, by contrast, is a lighter game with dark elements. It absolutely has more than one tone throughout its narrative.

Okay, for one, as much as I commend Colors on some of its aspects, it is nowhere near the level of well-roundedness or intensity I was referring to when it came to it's dark elements. Anything dark in that game was neutered at best or anticlimactic at worse as a result of it playing safe, such as the wisps and Tails: the wisps weren't being burned (nor were they destroyed) than they were being mutated into Frenzies, which as bad as it was within the context of it's narrative, it isn't anything as dark enough to worry since they were still alive regardless; having Tails be mind controlled and made to fight Sonic would have been something to see had they not made it to where Eggman runs out of energy at the last second and made Tails shake off the effects. And if the all of Eggman's schemes are anything to go by, we didn't know how Eggman would control the populance, whether it was through fear of technological superweapons, ancient abominations, or mind-control devices. The most intense moment in Colors would be Terminal Velocity where you're running down the Space Elevator from a black hole, but everywhere else it falls short.

 

Any dark moments are undermined by how much the narrative goofs around with the characters who don't take very much of anything seriously for the audience to feel worried about. There's hardly any sense of urgency, or any major stakes that are made, held and gambled enough to put an audience on the edge of their seat; it treats itself as a lighthearted Saturday Morning cartoon which, although I wouldn't have it done away with, doesn't make most of the threats seem threatening. When you have characters who don't treat the situation very heavily, how do you think the audience will go along with it? It's the same dilemma as how you treat you Hero and your Villian within the conflict; when your villain comes off as weak so does the conflict and the hero's efforts aren't very intense since there's not much to struggle with.

 

And this is after Unleashed which, lighthearted in its own way, had Sonic defeated at his most powerful state in the game's introduction, fractured the planet into several pieces, and reached a level of intensity at it's climax and all around made a much bigger effort to be well rounded with it's light and dark elements (and that being one of the game's central themes probably helped). Lighthearted and goofy it was at times, that narrative is far more in-line of what I'm talking about

 

Secondly, unless those fans are calling SA2 grimdark - and even then, it would definitely skirt if it didn't have any lighthearted moments - SA2 is every bit as dark as people say it is. We're talking government conspiracies, mop-up operations and cover-ups, military manhunts, a military base getting destroyed by a weapon near the scale of a nuke, a weapon of mass destruction that held the world hostage as it blew up half the moon as an example of what would happen to countries that terrorist could only dream of accomplishing, and said space colony the weapon was connected to being dropped onto the planet with the intent of wiping out all life on it because a scientist tragically lost everything that meant the world to him due to his employers finding his work being far more dangerous than they expected to have. If that isn't as hella dark as people are making it out to be, then you are really selling it's plot short. You could almost as easily call SA2 the Sonic equivalent of Mobile Suit Gundam given these elements and events.

 

When I want something well-rounded and intense, I don't want just one tone dominating while the other is spread far and between each other. I want mood-whiplash and unpredictability (while being coherent all the way through), I want goofy humor and relax moments at one period and straight-faced horror and rage the next, and I want the characters to treat the situation appropriately and make me feel different as the narrative goes along; Sonic is more than welcome to joke around even when things are heavy, but I want something to hit a soft spot of his that completely shifts his attitude and mine along with it appropriately; Eggman is equally welcome to bumble around and have things blow up in his face whether on accident or on purpose, but I want him turning the tables and shifting things into his favor to make it that much harder and personal for Sonic and his friends to stop him. I'm not going to settle on what Colors did when I know this series can and has done far better to evoke these very feelings I'm desiring.

Edited August 14, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Pawn]

^ I don't feel that SA2 is as dark as a lot of people says it is either. The government conspiracy angle is given very little focus in the game; Eggman blowing up an island and later threatening to do the same to the Earth is standard fare for a cartoon villain (not to mention that Chaos laid waste to a populated city the game before and Eggman himself outright blew the Earth to pieces in Unleashed anyway). The Last Story is quite dark, due to Gerald's speech, but it's a relatively small part of the game (that is quickly opposed by Amy and Shadow's memory of Maria anyway). The rest of it concentrates on the dynamic between the two contrasting groups of characters, with the military pursuit acting as a backdrop rather than being a major concern for the cast. The Hero Side carries an unwavering optimism despite that obstacle. The opening scene is a perfect example of this. Held hostage in a helicopter? Nope; cue bouncy music as Sonic escapes and boards down San Francisco to a lighthearted song. He doesn't hand himself over like many heroes would, because he's confident that everything will work out in the end.

 

Most of the dark elements in the main game revolve around Shadow and his frequent memories of Maria, because they distress him momentarily, but I would expect a game that focusses on the villains' point of view (and on the family of the arch villain no less) for the first time to be a bit darker than those that don't. While the end of the game is bittersweet due to Shadow's sacrifice, he leaves as a noble hero (rather than a tragic, misguided villain) and everyone is left with knowledge that they were able to save the Earth by working together. This is typical of the series' optimistic view that all people are inherently good, as Amy says so herself. A massive high is born from every low. For a supposedly 'dark' game, it can be very uplifting.

 

That is not to say that this is how I think it should be done nowadays, but I do agree with Doc Eggman that people frequently blow SA2's 'darkness' out of proportion, ignoring its lighthearted side, whether they are all for it or against it. The game is perfectly in line with your last paragraph, providing a good balance of highs and lows. While it may sound dark from its premise (and you could say the same about Colours there), what really establishes the tone are the emotions that drive the story. There is revenge, deception, tragedy and even death, but they give way to trust, teamwork, freedom and a hope for the future. The overall message is that evil acts are born of misunderstanding and that good will triumph in the end. I wouldn't cite Unleashed as a great example of balance, as it shies away from portraying Sonic's struggle as the Werehog (be it simply becoming accustomed to the new form and lack of speed or it filling him with negative emotions), even stating that Sonic is far too perfect a hero to be affected by such a thing. It's virtually a beginning and an end without the ups and downs that an engaging narrative needs.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Pawn

[Kuzu]

I think when people say SA2 is dark, its simply comparative to the rest of the series` usual fare which is generally lighthearted up-beatness with whatever darkness being downplayed due to the main villain being just as wacky as the heroes he fights. Whenever you played a Sonic game, you never had the feeling that anything really bad was going to happen to these characters, it was in essence, like playing a Saturday morning cartoon.

 

While SA1 did kinda tip the bar, it still generally holds onto a rather positive tone about itself about letting one's anger take hold of them, and that friendship and teamwork are the ultimate source of power and not hatred. The characters all get positive endings, Sonic beats Eggman, Tails learns to stand on his own, Knuckles returns to Emerald watching duty, Amy learns to defend herself, Gamma accomplished his mission(Albeit this one is a lot more bittersweet), and Big rescues his friend Froggy, and ultimately Chaos` anger is neutralized and even Tikal says life goes on with Sonic running off to his next adventure.

 

SA2 kinda went the extra mile because the villains are also the protagonists this time around, meaning we get to see the events unfolding from their point of view and naturally its going to be a bit darker than the more upbeat heroes. Its still pretty optimistic with both sides coming together for the sake of humanity in the end, and even share a couple of down to earth moments before the final credits. I like to see Shadow's death as a magnified version of Gamma's, someone misguided into doing evil but ultimately found peace in their last moments.(Although Gamma knew to stay dead)

 

 

SA2 is hardly "Grimdark" but in comparison to everything before and after in the series, it is pretty dark and I'm pretty sure that's what most people are referring to.

[Detective Shadzter]

But the scripts and plots have been handled by the American staff for the past few games. Just saying.

Nope. Ken Pontac has confirmed in the TSS comments last night that Lost World is the first story they've been asked to come up with. Colours' and Generations' stories were already in place.

 

Here are the four comments:

Actually, this WAS the first time that Warren and I were asked to come up with the story. On Colors and Generations the stories were already in place.

AustinOnSugar, I appreciate your comment, which is (almost) absolutely accurate. Nobody EVER gets to write a story EXACTLY how they want unless they own the project and have total control of the edit. That being said, I’m very happy in the way that Warren and I were allowed to inject so much of our vision into the project.

Eggman is EPIC in this. He’s SO MUCH FUN to write!

One mistake doesn’t make someone an idiot. It’s how they DEAL with the mistake that makes them a hero.

 

http://www.sonicstadium.org/2013/08/ken-pontac-on-lost-worlds-story/

[Kuzu]

Ok, so can we all stop blaming them for the Colors and Generations now and start blaming Sonic Team.

[sonfan1984]

I've already knew that they've only written the English dialogue in Colors and Generations while SEGA/Sonic Team are the ones that is responsible for the story direction in those games. Still it's nice to have some confirmation and I'm glad that I haven't lost complete faith in the new writers. Now I can actually see how they'll handle a Sonic story this time now that SEGA is giving them more freedom.   

[Kuzu]

Suddenly the overt references to death don't seem too out of place.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Well there goes the majority of my arguments in regards to the story...so far. I'm still going to hold some skepticism until I see the full narrative of Lost World, although if they can maintain the quality shown in the cutscene we saw, then I might end up having hope for the future of Sonic's narrative after all.

[Soniman]

I'll blame Sonic Team for Generations but leave Colors alone

This is good news though, let's see if the story is up to snuff.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Soniman

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I'll blame Sonic Team for Generations but leave Colors alone

No.

Edited August 14, 2013 by 743 ED Missile

[Celestia]

I thought we sorta already knew that Sonic Team gave them a scenario and they just write the script (meaning they're limited to what they were given)? Unless that was just speculation that turned out to have some truth to it after all.

No.

I'm not sure what you're responding to here...? Edited August 14, 2013 by ElementofChaos

[Diogenes]

Ok, so can we all stop blaming them for the Colors and Generations now and start blaming Sonic Team.

I assume they were still responsible for Colors' translator jokes. In which case they deserve blame.

 

Still though it's cool to hear they've got more control this time and aren't just filling in dialogue.

[Soniman]

No.

Are you trying to say I'm not allowed to do that or.....?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Are you trying to say I'm not allowed to do that or.....?

No one left Unleashed alone for its bullshit moments, I don't see why Colors gets a free pass.

 

EDIT: Actually come to think of it, none of Sonic's 3D adventures got a free pass either.

Edited August 14, 2013 by 743 ED Missile

[Wraith]

No one left Unleashed alone for its bullshit moments, I don't see why Colors gets a free pass.

 

Colors doesn't actually get much of a free pass these days.

 

Plus, does Unleashed even have much to do with the current discussion...? 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Plus, does Unleashed even have much to do with the current discussion...? 

No.

[Kuzu]

I assume they were still responsible for Colors' translator jokes. In which case they deserve blame.

 

Still though it's cool to hear they've got more control this time and aren't just filling in dialogue.

 

Well I'm pretty sure they had to pad out the story somehow, especially Sonic Team made it pretty barebones and they had to take up some time.

 

Its like to see Sonic Team actually loosening up a bit tho.