Sonic Lost World: Analysis, Fan Reception and Defense

[ArtFenix]

Not arguing or anything but SLoW art style being made that way to improve the performance is a very poor excuse. The levels are neither as huge as they were in Unleashed-Generations, nor is the gameplay as fast as it was in those games. It's not even half of the speed. If this game has smaller levels and slower gameplay, the graphics should be as detailed as they were in Unleashed-Generations, if not more, not the other way around, it makes no sense.

Look at the new M&S Olympic game, look at the new Mario cart. Both look much more detailed and beautiful and as far as I know, the new Mario cart runs at 60 fps.

Other than that, it's great we can agree on some things:).

Edited September 10, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Mallard]

Not arguing or anything but SLoW art style being made that way to improve the performance is a very poor excuse. The levels are neither as huge as they were in Unleashed-Generations, nor is the gameplay as fast as it was in those games. It's not even half of the speed. If this game has smaller levels and slower gameplay, the graphics should be as detailed as they were in Unleashed-Generations, if not more, not the other way around, it makes no sense.

Look at the new M&S Olympic game, look at the new Mario cart. Both look much more detailed and beautiful and as far as I know, the new Mario cart runs at 60 fps.

Other than that, it's great we can agree on some things:).

 

Well, Generations had some expansive levels, like Modern Seaside Hill and Sky Sanctuary. However, it also had Modern Green Hill, Chemical Plant and Speed Highway. Not so expansive.

 

The other point I was trying to make, but it didn't really come off, was game size. Generations was really short and perhaps they are trying to make Lost World longer?

 

Also: Lost World is 60 FPS. I'm sure the art style has a say in that.

 

Haha, I think we can both agree that Generations Seaside Hill is beautiful

Edited September 10, 2013 by Mallard

[Bouldergeist]

I think sky sanctuary is the most beautiful look at that beauty sonic's version of heaven

Edited September 10, 2013 by DarkShadowMaster

[Mallard]

I think sky sanctuary is the most beautiful

 

I love Sky Sanctuary too, it's amazing. However, I personally feel that Seaside Hille wins it. The sea, hills and lighting are immense on that level.

[Lady Soniko]

You know, people actually like the art direction and want to discuss more on it, but when someone comes in and disagrees about liking it, people get side tracked and derail the topic instead of just agreeing to disagree then continuing discussing what they like about it.

 

It's like you're taking someone's opinion you don't like as fact rather than just another person's opinionated view on their personal taste and preference, I mean come on really SLW is divisive game, but it doesn't have to be THAT divisive if we stop being so bloodthirsty when someone brings up a point we don't like, come on guys...

[Radrappy]

I think sky sanctuary is the most beautiful look at that beauty sonic's version of heaven

 

It's always really bothered me how this feels/looks nothing like the megadrive level.  Heck the clouds don't even sound the same.    

Edited September 10, 2013 by Radrappy

[Bouldergeist]

It's always really bothered me how this feels/looks nothing like the megadrive level.  Heck the clouds don't even sound the same.

Yeah that really bothered me no mega drive sounds on the clouds and the classic sonic signpost should have ended at the death egg's entrance it would have been a welcoming finish to the boss encounter also no mecha sonic with him piloting rehashed bosses from sonic 1 & 2 and himself.

[Narukami07]

Look at the new M&S Olympic game, look at the new Mario cart. Both look much more detailed and beautiful and as far as I know, the new Mario cart runs at 60 fps.

Other than that, it's great we can agree on some things:).

 

Different games, different overall designs, etc. Not totally 100% comparable to be fair, and i even almost thought that M&S soichi olypmipic's visuals looked like they were ripped out of the Wii versions of the previous olympic games.

 

It's isn't really out of the question for SLW's visuals to be the way it is due to performance reasons, Sonic Generations (as stunning as it looks) had a hard time keeping up with it's targeted framerate (30FPS) without constantly dropping to the teens in the busy sections of 3D levels. Unleashed was worse off as well, especially the PS3 version which attempted 60FPS but failed astronomically at it. 60FPS doesn't come without a price, and i can guarantee you that if the next Sonic title sports a new engine specifically made for the XB1/PS4 that is used for a graphically intensive Sonic game, the chances for Sega sticking with 30FPS (unlocked.....) would be high. 

 

However 60FPS is of course a design choice, so it's up to any developer who would want to utilize higher performance and whatnot, but it definitely doesn't come without sacrifices, as that would depend on how visually intensive a game is.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Narukami07

[Faseeh]

Just to establish it, I wasn't necessarily talking about the art style mostly, more on why this really wasn't rehashing and the charm in this game. Yeah. I mean, it's like music genres, it's wide.

 

 

I think sky sanctuary is the most beautiful look at that beauty sonic's version of heaven

 

You know, this is one of the best art decisions SEGA made imo. It makes the place blend in with the sky better, it makes it look more 'heavenly' and ancient treasure-esque.

 

Though, I've not observed this much but were those birds in the original? Cos it was always kinda wierd to see parrots instead of well flickies maybe

[Jolt_TH]

Not arguing or anything but SLoW art style being made that way to improve the performance is a very poor excuse. The levels are neither as huge as they were in Unleashed-Generations, nor is the gameplay as fast as it was in those games. It's not even half of the speed. If this game has smaller levels and slower gameplay, the graphics should be as detailed as they were in Unleashed-Generations, if not more, not the other way around, it makes no sense.

Look at the new M&S Olympic game, look at the new Mario cart. Both look much more detailed and beautiful and as far as I know, the new Mario cart runs at 60 fps.

Other than that, it's great we can agree on some things:).

Didn't Izukia say that they went for the simpler route to make things like Rings, enemies and item boxes easier to see rather than being "too cluttered" and them blending in. Thought I read that somewhere...be right back.

[ArtFenix]

Didn't Izukia say that they went for the simpler route to make things like Rings, enemies and item boxes easier to see rather than being "too cluttered" and them blending in. Thought I read that somewhere...be right back.

Yeah, that's right but I don't think it's decent excuse either. I swear, I didn't see any complains about that issue supposedly being there in Unleashed-Generations and now suddently it's there, lol. xD

 

If anything, it could be harder to see the rings and enemies because of insane speed, not because the detailed environments. And there was absolutely no reason to make all enemies cute and plastic-looking going as far as making them less robotic.

Edited September 11, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Straw Hat]

Yeah, that's right but I don't think it's decent excuse either. I swear, I didn't see any complains about that issue supposedly being there in Unleashed-Generations and now suddently it's there, lol. xD

 

If anything, it could be harder to see the rings and enemies because of insane speed, not because the detailed environments. And there was absolutely no reason to make all enemies cute and plastic-looking going as far as making them less robotic.

Maybe because they wanted to...?

[NiGHTS]

You know, people actually like the art direction and want to discuss more on it, but when someone comes in and disagrees about liking it, people get side tracked and derail the topic instead of just agreeing to disagree then continuing discussing what they like about it.

 

It's like you're taking someone's opinion you don't like as fact rather than just another person's opinionated view on their personal taste and preference, I mean come on really SLW is divisive game, but it doesn't have to be THAT divisive if we stop being so bloodthirsty when someone brings up a point we don't like, come on guys...

 

 

 

I agree, and honestly its obvious that Team Sonic is really going a different direction. They want to grab the Mario fans (and they claimed this plenty of times) Going with a more different and vibrant art style. They make alot of money on Nintendo systems, and with this? No doubt many Nintendo fans will line up, get it and actually say its amazing.

 

But in my opinion I like the direction there going. The classic Sonic games had a crazy art style. It wasn't meant to be detailed or more realistic.

[azoo]

To be honest, I feel like this game is hitting some, if not most of the notes to what made Sonic, well, Sonic-y.

 

Which, honestly, is why I'm still baffled by people's remarks of it looking too much like Mario. If you can't at least sort of see how the elements in this game reflect games like Sonic 2, CD, Chaotix, and the general Saturn era, then I'm not sure if we're seeing the same game. Its completely vibing of their usage of bold colors, simple geometric shapes, cartoony enemies, but with a sort of Japanese-y flair.. thats all like what I pretty much felt defined that "Sonic" feel. 

 

Sure, it'd be cool to see more organic and detailed areas appear again like Unleashed/Gens/etc, but I feel like this charm to the series has been missing for too long and should stay, sort of blending with what we had before.

 

I mean, just imagine this game's usage of color, design, etc applied to more grounded, organically-shaped and detailed environments. I think it'd look perfect for Sonic. After all, a lot of S3K and SA1 was basically that, anyways.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Azookara

[Metal the Mario]

I mean, just imagine this game's usage of color, design, etc applied to more grounded, organically-shaped and detailed environments. I think it'd look perfect for Sonic. After all, a lot of S3K and SA1 was basically that, anyways.

Honestly, I'd like this a lot. It wasn't really the vibrant colors of Lost World that put me off (I can't get enough of color), but rather the simpler, more cartoony shapes they were applied to.

 

What's weird, though, is that even though I'm not really feeling this game's style, I actually loved Sonic CD's style and still do. I'm still not sure why, but maybe it was the increased use of robotics and the feeling of seriousness that you were actually impacting the game's environment.

[Pawn]

To be honest, I feel like this game is hitting some, if not most of the notes to what made Sonic, well, Sonic-y.

 

Which, honestly, is why I'm still baffled by people's remarks of it looking too much like Mario. If you can't at least sort of see how the elements in this game reflect games like Sonic 2, CD, Chaotix, and the general Saturn era, then I'm not sure if we're seeing the same game. Its completely vibing of their usage of bold colors, simple geometric shapes, cartoony enemies, but with a sort of Japanese-y flair.. thats all like what I pretty much felt defined that "Sonic" feel. 

 

Sure, it'd be cool to see more organic and detailed areas appear again like Unleashed/Gens/etc, but I feel like this charm to the series has been missing for too long and should stay, sort of blending with what we had before.

 

I mean, just imagine this game's usage of color, design, etc applied to more grounded, organically-shaped and detailed environments. I think it'd look perfect for Sonic. After all, a lot of S3K and SA1 was basically that, anyways.

 

There are elements from 2 and CD, yeah, but that doesn't mean the art style is similar. There are obvious differences, that are generally due to the deliberate simplicity (which is new) in the design. Trees are a good example of this. They look like standard cartoony foliage, as opposed to the detailed, realistic or bizarre shapes that form the trees in many of the Classic games (except for maybe Hill Top's trees). The badniks look a lot less robotic and are more cartoony than ever before, which obviously has nothing to do with the location, so I don't feel that this style is necessarily unique to Lost World. If they did add more realism and general detail to it when returning to Earth (so...abandoning the simplicity altogether), then you might end up with something akin to S3&K. You'd have to take a hell of a leap to end up with anything resembling SA/SA2 from this though.

 

Also... What Saturn era? You've brought this up before, but I don't see Sonic 3D (if you count the port as part of the Saturn era), Sonic Jam's hub or Sonic R (which is more similar to SA and SA2 in design) in this. Are you referring to X-treme? I'm not really seeing it either way.

 

It's great if you like the style, but this is an entirely new approach that brings with it recurring elements like checkerboard patterns, Casino Night Zone, revamped Classic badniks and even ghosts from SA2. It takes whatever will work from the past, just like SA, SA2 and Heroes did with badniks and tropes. It doesn't make the art style similar to the Classics.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Pawn

[Diogenes]

The badniks are a lot less organic and more cartoony than ever,

When were badniks organic?

[Pawn]

When were badniks organic?

 

Oops. Not sure what happened there. Edited.

[Chaos Warp]

To be honest, I feel like this game is hitting some, if not most of the notes to what made Sonic, well, Sonic-y.

 

Which, honestly, is why I'm still baffled by people's remarks of it looking too much like Mario. If you can't at least sort of see how the elements in this game reflect games like Sonic 2, CD, Chaotix, and the general Saturn era, then I'm not sure if we're seeing the same game. Its completely vibing of their usage of bold colors, simple geometric shapes, cartoony enemies, but with a sort of Japanese-y flair.. thats all like what I pretty much felt defined that "Sonic" feel. 

 

Sure, it'd be cool to see more organic and detailed areas appear again like Unleashed/Gens/etc, but I feel like this charm to the series has been missing for too long and should stay, sort of blending with what we had before.

 

I mean, just imagine this game's usage of color, design, etc applied to more grounded, organically-shaped and detailed environments. I think it'd look perfect for Sonic. After all, a lot of S3K and SA1 was basically that, anyways.

This is all true: it does resemble that style: but what if one liked what Sonic's visual style turned into for Unleashed onwards? What if someone liked that style and didn't want Sonic to "Regress"? What if someone really loved the stylized, detailed "realism" but not since the environments are cartoony? Sonic's style evolved, and while I do enjoy SLW's style is it wrong that I want to say it's un-sonic-y compared to the recent games, which I saw as the new evolution of "sonic-y"?

Edited September 12, 2013 by Chaos Warp

[azoo]

There are elements from 2 and CD, yeah, but that doesn't mean the art style is similar. There are obvious differences, that are generally due to the deliberate simplicity (which is new) in the design. Trees are a good example of this. They look like standard cartoony foliage, as opposed to the detailed, realistic or bizarre shapes that form the trees in many of the Classic games (except for maybe Hill Top's trees).

 

I'm pretty sure Tropical Coast contains less overly simplistic flora, specifically the palmtrees in that stage. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I saw that in the boss battle trailor.

 

My point is that the original style of the Sonic games were also geometrical, very boldly colorful and "simplistic" (they weren't really, but honestly neither are really simplistic so I'll call them both that). I guess it stands out to people more because of it actually being in 3D this time instead of pixel art, but yeah. The tiny details are also there, but at the same time while Lost World looks so simplistic, remember that up close it has details and a sort of texture to it. On pixel art its not so easy to do that (since you only see it at one angle from one distance), and you have to make it stand out more obviously.

 

The badniks are a lot less organic and more cartoony than ever, which obviously has nothing to do with the location, so I don't feel that this style is necessarily unique to Lost World. If they did add more realism and general detail to it when returning to Earth (so...abandoning the simplicity altogether), then you might end up with something akin to S3&K. You'd have to take a hell of a leap to end up with anything resembling SA/SA2 from this though.

 

The badniks were always "less organic and more cartoony" in the classic games. To say these don't look like robots in this game is kind of ridiculous because its certainly believeable. Its just not your average scifi take on them like we've had for almost every game for a while. Heck, SA1's robots weren't much better than this, either. They just looked a bit more rugged due to visible nuts and bolts on their sides.

 

On that note, S3K and SA1 basically have somewhere around the same art style. Both are rather realistic in their own ways, but still are very colorful in other ways and have their balance of cartoonier levels to more realisticish levels. SA2's dive into furthering the realism, edginess and scifi deserves its own art style category.

 

Also... What Saturn era? You've brought this up before, but I don't see Sonic 3D (if you count the port as part of the Saturn era), Sonic Jam's hub or Sonic R (which is more similar to SA and SA2 in design) in this. Are you referring to X-treme? I'm not really seeing it either way.

 

Sonic the Screen Saver came out in this era. Also, the art of 3D Blast, R, and Jam; regardless of higher amounts of visual noise, still share the same basics as this art style that I've listed off countlessly before. Its the color usage and that influence that's cartoony, but not in the "generic cartoon" kind of way but more of the unique "Sonic" kind of cartoony.

 

It's great if you like the style, but this is an entirely new approach that brings with it recurring elements like checkerboard patterns, Casino Night Zone, revamped Classic badniks and even ghosts from SA2. It takes whatever will work from the past, just like SA, SA2 and Heroes did with badniks and tropes. It doesn't make the art style similar to the Classics.

 

Just because it takes several pages from other things too doesn't mean I can't see what the most of its influence is from. Of course its a new style, but its VERY reminiscent of the old style.

 

Basically,

 

 

Theres no way this doesn't look like what a classic Sonic game fully realized would've looked like. (bar the tubular stage design but you know what I mean)

 

 

 

 

This is all true: it does resemble that style: but what if one liked what Sonic's visual style turned into for Unleashed onwards? What if someone liked that style and didn't want Sonic to "Regress"? What if someone really loved the stylized, detailed "realism" but not since the environments are cartoony? Sonic's style evolved, and while I do enjoy SLW's style is it wrong that I want to say it's un-sonic-y compared to the recent games, which I saw as the new evolution of "sonic-y"?

 

Then I honestly don't know what to say, besides that no matter how its spun, its anything but "un-Sonic-y".

Edited September 12, 2013 by Azookara

[Kuzu]

There is no true definition of what is "Sonicy" because everyone has their own views on what the series is and should be. Why people argue as if anyone who disagrees with their notion of what Sonic is, is "wrong" is beyond me tho.

[Pawn]

Azookara, on 12 Sept 2013 - 19:12, said:

 

On that note, S3K and SA1 basically have somewhere around the same art style. Both are rather realistic in their own ways, but still are very colorful in other ways and have their balance of cartoonier levels to more realisticish levels. SA2's dive into furthering the realism, edginess and scifi category deserves its own art style category.

 

 

You only have to compare the different versions of Ice Cap Zone from S3K and SA1 to see that they don't share the same art style. SA1 is nowhere near as colourful. As far as SA and SA2's differences go, that's  due to different level tropes and an increase in texture detail. Station Square and City Escape can easily exist side by side, as could Sand Hill and SA2's desert levels, the Mystic Ruins and Green Forest, and so on...?

 

 

 

Sonic the Screen Saver came out in this era. Also, the art of 3D Blast, R, and Jam; regardless of higher amounts of visual noise, still share the same basics as this art style that I've listed off countlessly before. Its the color usage and that influence that's cartoony, but not in the "generic cartoon" kind of way but more of the unique "Sonic" kind of cartoony.

 

The games have never reflected the Screen Saver images though? Why would they look at those now? R and Jam certainly do not look like this at all. Both go out of their way to ground the zones in realism somewhat, but Jam is brighter...that's it. There's more to an art style than colour, but LW isn't really evoking a particularly Classic colour scheme to me anyway.

 

 

 

Just because it takes several pages from other things too doesn't mean I can't see what the most of its influence is from. Of course its a new style, but its VERY reminiscent of the old style.

 

Clearly we don't see eye to eye on this. I see it taking some inspiration here and there, yet this feels very different to me, as opposed to reminiscent. This doesn't make it wrong of course. Adventure was the start of something new as well and I had no beef with that. The Classics' gradual progression to more realism made that transition feel a little smoother, but I've never said this isn't at all 'Sonic-y'.

 

 

 

There is no true definition of what is "Sonicy" because everyone has their own views on what the series is and should be. Why people argue as if anyone who disagrees with their notion of what Sonic is, is "wrong" is beyond me tho.

 

 

I'd say that Shadow and '06 test that theory. =P Anyway, I'm debating with Azookara about the Classic influence specifically; not whether or not this is 'Sonicy'.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Pawn

[jords]

Something seems very.....eggmanish of zavok's battle.

[Kuzu]

Something seems very.....eggmanish of zavok's battle.

 

Well he did supply them with their equipment before they betrayed him.

[azoo]

I hate to branch off - topic this far but I really just wanted to mention something about me and Pawn's convo that isn't really worth making a big topic about.

 

SA1 was definitely not a massive change in art style from S3K. Sure, it changed some things and made more room for the amount of "realistic detail!!!" they could pull off with their new console, but it still was very similar to the previous game in style. If you're thinking of how SA1 and SA2 don't have much difference in style, then you might be looking at SADX, since DX (and following ports built off of it) was retextured, given new models and new shadows to resemble it's sequel game more (brand familiarity with SA2Battle), while SA1 was much more vibrant and with cartoonier detail. 

 

 

Anyways, sorry for getting so off-topic. XD