Sonic Lost World: Analysis, Fan Reception and Defense

[SenEDDtor Missile]

After some reflecting, I've decided to come back to this topic at my own risk.  Mostly because I wanted to respond to this:

You're right about this. Having all of those elements sounds great on paper and should make the game feel Sonic-y to me like the others.

 

So... why does it still not feel that way to me right now, based on what I've seen?  I've realized that even I can't put my finger on it. Sonic games have tried all kinds of new things in the past while still capturing that feeling to me, so why is this one different?  Is it the new gameplay or the level design?  Is it the designs of the Deadly Six?  Is it just because I'm a late '90s/early '00s kid of the Adventure era (even though I also grew up with the classics)? I just don't know anymore.

 

I mean, it's not like I want this game to fail or anything. I want to see what everyone else sees in this game.  For some reason, though, I just can't. I don't feel I'm in the wrong for that, but seeing as the general opinion is almost universally opposite of mine, I find it a little unsettling, you know? This is the first Sonic game to ever make me feel this way.

Maybe it's just an era thing. Growing up with something that can be considered era specific affects a person's Point Of View on things that come before and after it. Granted that doesn't mean that anything that doesn't fit that particular era will be something you loathe automatically, but it definitely can color one's ability to adapt to something different.

Edited September 7, 2013 by 743 ED Missile

[Kuzu]

It is kinda offputting for a series that once touted as the "anti-Mario" now adopting so much from said series; I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, just a little odd and off putting.

[Diogenes]

What's it adopting, exactly? The only thing that screams "Mario" to me is the tubular levels/variable gravity, and that's not something inherent to Mario or something only seen in Mario. Everything else is just platformer stuff, and Sonic's always been a platformer.

[Wraith]

I think the Mario complaints just come from Mario being the only other major 3D platformer left. We don't have much to compare it to these days.

 

If you look back at some of the 3D platformers over time, you can see some similarities to Sonic Lost World in them too.

[Kuzu]

What's it adopting, exactly? The only thing that screams "Mario" to me is the tubular levels/variable gravity, and that's not something inherent to Mario or something only seen in Mario. Everything else is just platformer stuff, and Sonic's always been a platformer.

 

Well there's the whole Wisp becoming a staple despite nobody really asking for it; I don't mind power ups in Sonic, but they've never really been a staple with the focus mostly being on the character's abilities and how they interact with the level. The only other major platforming franchise to really use power ups like that is Mario.

 

The tubular level design isn't inherent to just Mario, but he's by far the most known for it as well.

 

And this is mainly my own observation based on what someone told me, but how the Sonic series now utilizes a minimal cast in all of their games from Unleashed onwards with everyone else being used primarily in multiplayer titles, which is also something Mario is generally known for. I know we all had complaints about the over abundance of characters but I really don't think the quantity was the problem.

 

 

It just seems like way too much of a coincidence for me to not notice.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Wraith]

 

Well there's the whole Wisp becoming a staple despite nobody really asking for it; I don't mind power ups in Sonic, but they've never really been a staple with the focus mostly being on the character's abilities and how they interact with the level. The only other major platforming franchise to really use power ups like that is Mario.

 

 

The level design can still mostly be completed with Sonic's abilities with the wisps seemingly more of an optional offshoot this time around.

 

And this is mainly my own observation based on what someone told me, but how the Sonic series now utilizes a minimal cast in all of their games from Unleashed onwards with everyone else being used primarily in multiplayer titles, which is also something Mario is generally known for. I know we all had complaints about the over abundance of characters but I really don't think the quantity was the problem.

 

 

Knuckles and Amy are supposed to show up in this one, so I'll chose to have faith that they're slowly building the main cast back up. 

 

 The fact that the characters are still interacting with eachother in interesting ways at all puts it far above Mario IMO.

[Kuzu]

The level design can still mostly be completed with Sonic's abilities with the wisps seemingly more of an optional offshoot this time around.

Yea, but that's not really the point I was making.

 

Knuckles and Amy are supposed to show up in this one, so I'll chose to have faith that they're slowly building the main cast back up. 

 

 The fact that the characters are still interacting with eachother in interesting ways at all puts it far above Mario IMO.

 

True, but you'd think we would be given a glimpse of them if they're in the game but so far most of the focus is on the characters we expect to see(Sonic, Tails, and Eggman) so if they are indeed in the game, I don't really expect them to play a very large role.

[Wraith]

 

True, but you'd think we would be given a glimpse of them if they're in the game but so far most of the focus is on the characters we expect to see(Sonic, Tails, and Eggman) so if they are indeed in the game, I don't really expect them to play a very large role.

 

We've barely even gotten a glimpse of anything related to the story period. 

[Diogenes]

Well there's the whole Wisp becoming a staple despite nobody really asking for it; I don't mind power ups in Sonic, but they've never really been a staple with the focus mostly being on the character's abilities and how they interact with the level. The only other major platforming franchise to really use power ups like that is Mario.

Man damn near every platformer has powerups. I don't see how they're any more Mario-y here than in any other plaformer.

The tubular level design isn't inherent to just Mario, but he's by far the most known for it as well.

Only because he had some games centered on it a few years back. I don't think it's fair to act like using any idea that Mario's used before means they must have taken it from Mario.

And this is mainly my own observation based on what someone told me, but how the Sonic series now utilizes a minimal cast in all of their games from Unleashed onwards with everyone else being used primarily in multiplayer titles, which is also something Mario is generally known for. I know we all had complaints about the over abundance of characters but I really don't think the quantity was the problem.

Most platformers don't have as bloated a cast as Sonic's in the first place. How many recurring characters do you see in Megaman, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Spyro, Crash, whatever?

[Kuzu]

Man damn near every platformer has powerups. I don't see how they're any more Mario-y here than in any other plaformer.

Yea, and who codified their use?

Only because he had some games centered on it a few years back. I don't think it's fair to act like using any idea that Mario's used before means they must have taken it from Mario.

Yea, but its also not unreasonable to assume they did because of the the success of those games either.

Most platformers don't have as bloated a cast as Sonic's in the first place. How many recurring characters do you see in Megaman, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Spyro, Crash, whatever?

And most of those franchises were created to compete with Mario in some way.

Mario is the codifier for platforming games in general, even if there are others of its genre out its not unreasonable to assume the other franchises are going to be influenced by that series. And even if you consider it just a general platformer trend, Its still odd to see Sonic conform to such norms when the series never has in the past, even in the Classic series.

[Lady Soniko]

Most platformers don't have as bloated a cast as Sonic's in the first place. How many recurring characters do you see in Megaman, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Spyro, Crash, whatever?

 

Donkey Kong - DK, Diddy Kong, Cranky Kong, Dixie Kong? (if Tropical Freeze counts)

Kirby - MetaKnight, DeDeDe,

Spyro - Hunter, Bianca, Ripto, Zoe, Sparx, Cynder

Crash - Cortex, N.Gin, Coco, Tiny Tiger, Crunch

Not sure on Megaman

[Diogenes]

Yea, and who codified their use?

So Sonic can't even be a platformer without being accused of imitating Mario. That's the level that you've taken this discussion to.

[Kuzu]

So Sonic can't even be a platformer without being accused of imitating Mario. That's the level that you've taken this discussion to.

 

Maybe you should stop generalizing my statements when I didn't even say any of that.

 

 

The entire point of this is noting; Mario is the codifier for platforming titles, every single platformer today is what it is because of him. Is that saying every single platformer is imitating him? No, it just means that other platformers are going to borrow elements heavily associated with him. There's nothing wrong with that, this is common business practice among developers.

 

However, Sonic never really adhered too much to those conventions. He always just did his own thing, there were far more characters involved, the plots were far more complex, and the atmosphere was grounded far more in reality. Sonic has ALWAYS done this, so it just a little jarring for the series to suddenly shift focus to what are generally more generic platforming tropes as I described above.

 

Now, I never said that this is a bad thing, nor did I imply that Sonic is not allowed to borrow tropes from other franchises. Its merely an observation I was noting, nothing more.

 

I don't know why people are getting so up in arms every time someone  brings up a Mario comparison, when we've already established the influence from the getgo.

[Diogenes]

If you don't think Sonic was influenced by Mario from day one I don't know what to tell you.

And I really don't see how can tie it specifically to Mario when it's stuff that's become part of general platformer conventions, just because Mario came up with a lot of it. It's not being more like Mario, it's just being more like a platformer.

[Kuzu]

Call it what you want, but the point is conforming and its quite odd to see.

[Autosaver]

Don't want to pick a side or anything, but Iizuka [Head of Sonic Team] said the game is similar to Mario.

 

I don't really care if the game takes cues from Mario. It's not that big of a deal and I don't think anyone should get upset at SEGA for having a Sonic game take some Mario elements.

[daman825]

Honestly, if taking cues from Mario makes the gameplay and level design better (which it seems to be doing), then there is nothing negative about it.

[Indigo Rush]

Still trying to comprehend how taking cues from the de-facto platforming progenitor is a bad thing.

Sonic is a platformer.

Mario is a platformer.

It's like saying Call of Duty is a rip-off of Halo. I mean, yeah, both are first person shooters, but really?

C'mon. Next you'll be saying that SLW's Parkour move is a rip-off of Cat Mario's ability to climb up wa-

.............

[ArtFenix]

Um..No. Call of Duty is very different to Halo. Both are fps but that's it. Sonic has always been quite different from Mario in terms like...everything.

Edited September 7, 2013 by ArtFenix

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Um..No. Call of Duty is very different to Halo. Both are fps but thst's it. Sonic has always been quite different from Mario in terms like...everything.

That was kind of his point when he compared the two games with each other, actually.

[ArtFenix]

That was kind of his point when he compared the two games with each other, actually.

Oh, right. My bad, I'm sorry))).

[Kuzu]

Still trying to comprehend how taking cues from the de-facto platforming progenitor is a bad thing.

Sonic is a platformer.

Mario is a platformer.

It's like saying Call of Duty is a rip-off of Halo. I mean, yeah, both are first person shooters, but really?

C'mon. Next you'll be saying that SLW's Parkour move is a rip-off of Cat Mario's ability to climb up wa-

.............

.

 

I'm going to requote myself because I know people don't like to read and will take me at face value.

Now, I never said that this is a bad thing, nor did I imply that Sonic is not allowed to borrow tropes from other franchises. Its merely an observation I was noting, nothing more.

[Indigo Rush]

Alrighty then, carry on.

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

C'mon. Next you'll be saying that SLW's Parkour move is a rip-off of Cat Mario's ability to climb up wa-

.............

 

Nah. We'll say that this time Mario ripped off Sonic! The people saw the parkour first!

[Bonic the Hedgehog]

Hey buddies, hehe.

 

I think we all need to chill out with Mario! He's way past cool! Just yesterday I played at the Olympics with him.

 

He's a bit short and tubby, but he has a good heart!