Lost World Trailer 2 "This looks a bit like *Insert game here*"

[Soniman]

 Who cares? They're there for you to look at and appreciate, not to interact with. This solution? Mow down all of the trees, and make the path bigger to compensate. Well... okay, but now I have no trees. Cool?

 

 

Smartass points for Soniman: 0.1

 

What I'm seeing instead is a step back. Levels that exist for no reason other than to exist (for fuck's sake, Desert Ruins Act 2 has you skydiving in a forest. Wha-...?), and that's boring to me.

 

I know this is expecting much, you can at least wait for more context from the game before claiming that it has no explanation to exist. Lost Hex is said to be a magical/feaky world that Eggman discovered, and all the floating shenanigans may indeed have an explanation, (hell the entire world itself was floating without a core to speak of).

Edited July 17, 2013 by Soniman

[Voyant]

Essentially Diss is there for the overall experience and aesthetics rather than just the gameplay XD.

 

Regardless I think Lost World is fine though. While I feel sad diss wont enjoy the game mostly I know I will and everyone else that likes what they are seeing. I find it funny how a lot of people are flipping the script with this game though most of the naysayers before are now parsing this and vice vera ;p.

 

Regardless I still feel this is a tie in game like Colors was. I'm sure the Unleashed team going to do their best on the PS4/Xbone.

 

I will say something though. I remember a lot of people complaining in the past that there was tons of terrain in the background and that they were disappointed that they couldn't do anything with it. While I don't think Lost World is the absolute answer, I do feel its a step forward for now all the environment you see (Except for the obvious BG) is at you disposal. This hasn't been accomplished in a high profile title in a long while.

 

Gameplay is just as important as Aesthetics though and neither should be downplayed, but as we see here there are a lot of people that tip slightly to different sides.

 

If anything this is just another example that Sonic Team can't win though its pretty much impossible to appease to all fans and I rather Sonic Team do their own thing. (Which they are doing with this game.) And who knows perhaps the story might be very intriguing. Tthe red guy sounded very serious in doing Sonic in...perhaps we might get a couple surprises in the storytelling.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Voyant

[azoo]

Essentially Diss is there for the overall experience and aesthetics rather than just the gameplay XD.

 

Regardless I think Lost World is fine though. while I feel sad diss wont enjoy the game mostly I know I will and everyone else that likes what they are seeing. I find it funny how a lot of people are flipping the script with this game though most of the naysayers before are now parsing this and vice vera ;p.

 

Well yeah, part of a great game to me too is that it gives a good experience as well as interesting gameplay. If it lacks that then its just a pretty good game, in my eyes. Nothing to get attached to, or really care about in the long run; just a fun little Sonic game.

 

..But why would I want just that, especially when the past 2 Sonics were just that too (and almost no game more than that that's hit so many high notes)? I could understand the reason this would get incredible amounts of high praise though, since Colors and Generations were mostly adored by fans inside and outside the fanbase :v

 

Sonic Lost World has yet to convince / surprise me into being anything more than just that: a game I'll have some fun with, but not a big deal. I'm hoping to be very pleasantly surprised when I play it on release date, but yeah.

 

Eesh. I sound like a broken record again. Time to turn the azoobox off for now. 

Edited July 17, 2013 by Azookara

[Rusty Spy]

I'm with Discoid on this one. It isn't so much that Lost World's floating tubes don't make sense in Sonic's world, it's that having a game composed of just flying platforms and shapes is boring.

 

Abstract design was always big part of what made up Sonic's world, but the levels were still actual locations with abstract elements in them. Lost Worlds is just random objects and shapes floating in a void.

[Voyant]

Its funny how when Mario Galaxy did this no one had a problem with it. Now Sonic does something similar and everyone is screaming with their pitch forks and torches.

 

Just an observation.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Voyant

[Rusty Spy]

Its funny how when Mario Galaxy did this no one had a problem with it. Now Sonic does something similar and everyone is screaming with their pitch forks and torches.

 

Just an observation.

Mario Galaxy was in space. You expect space to involve jumping around on floating rocks and small planetoids.

 

Secondly, even against the more abstract levels, it still isn't as jarring because Mario games have always leaned more on the abstract side in it's environments with the exception of Mario Sunshine and maybe Mario World and Mario 3 if you want to stretch it.

[Ferno]

Its funny how when Mario Galaxy did this no one had a problem with it. Now Sonic does something similar and everyone is screaming with their pitch forks and torches.

 

Just an observation.

 

In Mario's first game, backgrounds and scenery wasn't much of a focus. In Sonic's first game, it was, to the point that it was often used as a selling point to sell the Genesis.

[Soniman]

Most of the 2D Mario game's levels were rather believe-able with a few exceptions. I think levels in like 64, the Galaxy series, and Mario Land 2 are what qualified as "out there" for level concepts.

 

Even past Sonic games had levels like Windy Hill, Rail Canyon, Sky Rail, and bunch of other abstract-y levels that don't lend itself to realism/logic either, so with Lost World I honestly don't believe it's that much of a stretch. Like, I don't see it as some huge deviation from the formula like other seem to think.

[Komodin]

Its funny how when Mario Galaxy did this no one had a problem with it. Now Sonic does something similar and everyone is screaming with their pitch forks and torches.

 

Just an observation.

 

Well, let's be fair now -- both Super Mario Galaxy titles have more than just tubular/planetoid levels. A fair share of them were more like what one would expect from, say, 64 and Sunshine.

 

I'm not trying to disparage Sonic Lost World, or imply that it'll have nothing going for it but tubular/planetoid levels, so much as the notion that its dissenters are arguing out of hypocrisy.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Sonic, at least on the classic games, was about using the colors right.

Contrast, tone graduation, easy identification of elements.

Lost World is doing that, unlike the most recent games, lots of levels looks like they have a single pallete with different tones, nothing really popped out of the screen, and the elements of the level some times got lost.

 

I'm really happy with the art-style of this game so far, because it does looks like Sonic CD, but in 3D, which, I Love.

So you're telling me that games like Generations, recreating just about every level in the series main history, used it's colors wrong? Or what is it that I'm missing?

Edited July 17, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Voyant]

Mario Galaxy was in space. You expect space to involve jumping around on floating rocks and small planetoids.

 

Secondly, even against the more abstract levels, it still isn't as jarring because Mario games have always leaned more on the abstract side in it's environments with the exception of Mario Sunshine and maybe Mario World and Mario 3 if you want to stretch it.

 

Sonic Lost World is in the sky? As for Sonic not being abstract...have you seen the level design for previous games or the older ones? Like I'm ever going to find a looping highway to drive my car in. This argument would work if the areas were pretty much like you walking into a real world setting, but that's not the case with Sonic. Sonic idea is to take a "surreal" or whatever take on an area. Lost world is still doing that.

 

 

In Mario's first game, backgrounds and scenery wasn't much of a focus. In Sonic's first game, it was, to the point that it was often used as a selling point to sell the Genesis.

 

I really don't see the difference honestly. There were some levels that were in the genesis games that were pretty plain in the BG...Green Hill Zone/Marble Zone is a very good example of this. While latter levels got more detailed...or less detailed. It all fluctuated more than being consistent. The Jungle Level is indication of this similar type of deal in Lost World.

 

 

Well, let's be fair now -- both Super Mario Galaxy titles have more than just tubular/planetoid levels. A fair share of them were more like what one would expect from, say, 64 and Sunshine.

 

I'm not trying to disparage Sonic Lost World, or imply that it'll have nothing going for it but tubular/planetoid levels, so much as the notion that its dissenters are arguing out of hypocrisy.

 

We have already seen evidence that the tube concept isn't the only thing in his game in terms of level design. Also I don't count as tube worlds being highways in the sky honestly. Because gravity is keeping your feet flattened on the ground in rotation. That and the fact that most highway in the skys have a very liner approach to them. There not much room to go and moving to far left or right normally results to death. (Radical Highway/Speed highway for example)

 

Lost World has plenty of paths already that circulate in the tube. So I don't see why this is a step BACKWARD in level design.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Voyant

[Ferno]

I really don't see the difference honestly, its just a background

 

Yeah, alot of the time in Mario games, the background is, just a background; A static or looping backdrop or skybox put in place to keep the rest of the level you're not interacting with from being blank space, to add to the scenery a bit, and to protect and shield our eyes from the creepy black void filled with rows of those pesky zeros and ones of the matrix, but in most main series Sonic games from the classics until now, the background has been pretty important to the level as it changed and you felt like you were traveling from one location to the other within that level. It's like Discoid mentioned earlier in his Jungle Joyride example where you start off in the village and end up at the temple at the end of the stage. You felt like you were in an environment, not on a stage with a green-screen photo behind you.

[Rusty Spy]

Sonic Lost World is in the sky? As for Sonic not being abstract...have you seen the level design for previous games or the older ones? Like I'm ever going to find a looping highway to drive my car in. This argument would work if the areas were pretty much like you walking into a real world setting, but that's not the case with Sonic. Sonic idea is to take a "surreal" or whatever take on an area. Lost world is still doing that.

[...]

I really don't see the difference honestly. There were some levels that were in the genesis games that were pretty plain in the BG...Green Hill Zone/Marble Zone is a very good example of this. While latter levels got more detailed...or less detailed. It all fluctuated more than being consistent. The Jungle Level is indication of this similar type of deal in Lost World.

 

Your missing the point. Levels in the classic Sonic games were actual locations with abstract elements.

 

Green Hill is a hilly grassland, sharp mountainous hills and lakes. Rail Canyon has a lot of grind rails over a canyon, but there's an entire train station/ammunition factory built on top of rocky spires over an expansive canyon. It's cartoony with a touch of abstract. Speed Highway, your running along the city skyline.

 

What is Lost World's candy level? A bunch of giant floating candy and sweets in a pink void? Or the honeycomb level; trees and honeycombs floating in an empty sky.

 

The difference is that Sonic levels were defined places or were even based on real world locations like City Escape, but added a bit of abstract design, whereas in Lost Worlds, it's like the game takes place inside Sonic 1's special stages.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Rusty Spy

[Xenos]

Doesn't it sort of make sense considering this isn't Sonic's World at all? Sonic and co. are essentially in a lost world the entire game. Things look screwy and out of place compared to the previous games because they all take place in Sonic's world.

 

Lost Hex looks like a bunch of movable shapes and it literally has no core or inner crust keeping together, seeing the locations the way they are sounds pretty plausible to me.

[Voyant]

Yeah, alot of the time in Mario games, the background is, just a background; A static or looping backdrop or skybox put in place to keep the rest of the level you're not interacting with from being blank space, to add to the scenery a bit, and to protect and shield our eyes from the creepy black void filled with rows of those pesky zeros and ones of the matrix, but in most main series Sonic games from the classics until now, the background has been pretty important to the level as it changed and you felt like you were traveling from one location to the other within that level. It's like Discoid mentioned earlier in his Jungle Joyride example where you start off in the village and end up at the temple at the end of the stage. You felt like you were in an environment, not on a stage with a green-screen photo behind you.

 

Its not like Sonic is Far Cry 3 though there is still a liner path you traverse from...the BG transitions like that only serve to distract people or give them the illusion of that feeling you mentioned, but take all that "Lush" background away and those games become just high ways. While it nice to have something too look at, I don't see what the point is in putting all this detail in a BG where you can't do anything on. This was a problem with Unleashed and arguably Generations and we all know creating a Sonic game where all that detail is optional to run on just isn't something believable for them to do in a reasonable budget and time while still creating lush BG, and multiple levels and tropes.. At least not yet.

 

Now If Sonic Team was Activsion where they had tons of fucking money to work on everything and higher the staff to do something like that then hell yeah I would expect a lot more, but they are not Activsion and last time I checked still having money issues.

 

I just don't think its a big deal, but I I think its because I tend to balance things out easily in my head . I don't mind the sacrifice on BG aesthetics for more level design and terrain to be focused on. You know...the problem people have had for a long time.

 

 

Your missing the point. Levels in the classic Sonic games were actual locations with abstract elements.

 

Windy Hill is just as much of a location as Green Hill is.

 

 

 

What is Lost World's candy level? A bunch of giant floating candy and sweets in a pink void? Or the honeycomb level; trees and honeycombs floating in an empty sky.

 

The entire premise of the game seems like a huge puzzle that been shattered into many pieces. Shit is not going to make sense until you slowly piece stuff together. Sometimes during that time your going to pick and place pieces that totally don't belong sometimes...and I believe this is what lost world is doing.

 

Nothing makes sense because its not supposed too...its the point of the goddamn game. The immersion factor comes from you making the world whole again putting a shattered world back together so it CAN make sense. Whether the game is successful at making you care about this we have yet to experience.

 

And before people say that this was what essentially Unleashed did and it made sense...not it didn't. All the places maintained their area, it not like pieces of Adapt ended up in Shamar so that doesn't count. (would have been awesome though now that I think about it XD)

 

Edit: Another point to make... The only leveI I can really think of that really got its aesthetics and level design mixed in perfectly was Eggman Land. Now I want everyone to remember how the insane amount of slowdown and technical issues that level had...considering the WiiU isn't that different power wise from the 360/PS3, similar issues and limitation are plausible. Especial if you have to do this with every level.

 

If you want a Sonic game to be composed of pretty much all Eggman Land like levels in delivery and execution...your better off skipping Lost World and wait and see what the Unleash Team does with The Ps4/Xbone,  hope Sonic Team beefs up their dev team, and are prepared to take a loss in-case the game doesn't sell enough to make profit.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Voyant

[thatguyfrom03]

Pros:

• Eagle is awesome and made me think of Nights into Dreams. Good times.
• Speaking of Nights, Saturn Wisp seems like another Nights reference. Looks like a Paraloop and works like the magnet machines in Stick Canyon

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZIij5mG2JU

• DRILL!
• Wider spaces in the desert zone. Hopefully filled with hidden content.

Cons:

• Desert looks bland, has wide spaces but it looks empty. Hope I'm wrong.
• Rhythm looks like this games Blue Cube: the gimmicky wisp I never look forward to using.

 

I have others issues with Lost World, but I remembered I talked a lot of shit about things I didn't like with Sonic Colors. I remember very few of my initial issues, and Its still one of my favorite Sonic games. If its one thing about the Colors team is that they know how to use their game mechanics in creative ways, so I expect Parkour to be used to its fullest potential. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

[ArtFenix]

Seriously, it looks outstanding, colorfull and fun to play. The levels are indead Mario-ish, but still have that "radical" Sonic touch, like grinds, ramps and loops.

 

Yeah, rails, springs and other in-game objects are the only things that make me think it's a Sonic game.

 

I did say that was a bullshit excuse from Iizuka when he said you couldn't really see the rings or the background in Unleashed-Generations. Now look at the screens above. That is some SERIOUS clusterfuck of everything. Looks like a bad acid trip. If that doesn't look even more messy than Generations, then the world really has gone mad. Also, making that BARREN desert level which is totally yellow and placing yellow rings there makes things even worse.

Looks like it'll be much harder to tell where the rings and other things are in these types of levels with graphics like that. I knew it was a shitty excuse from Iizuka.

Edited July 17, 2013 by ArtFenix

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

If that's what an acid trip looks like, then I would love to go on one for real.

 

I think it's better to chalk this up to being a different world that can be however strange it wants only because it's a completely separate planet, kind of like the creative freedom they had with Colors levels (despite it being more detailed in comparison). Which is probably why I don't mind it too much despite preferring the style and detail of Unleashed/Colors/Generations.

Edited July 17, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[KrazyBean]

People complaining about the graphics really should just wait for the PS4/Xbox One Sonic game. It's clear that these graphics aren't good enough for you, so if it REALLY detracts you from the gameplay, then ignore this game and wait.

 

I don't know what else to say.

[Voyant]

Yeah, rails, springs and other in-game objects are the only things that make me think it's a Sonic game.

 

I did say that was a bullshit excuse from Iizuka when he said you couldn't really see the rings or the background in Unleashed-Generations. Now look at the screens above. That is some SERIOUS clusterfuck of everything. Looks like a bad acid trip. If that doesn't look even more messy than Generations, then the world really has gone mad. Also, making that BARREN desert level which is totally yellow and placing yellow rings there makes things even worse.

Looks like it'll be much harder to tell where the rings and other things are in these types of levels with graphics like that. I knew it was a shitty excuse from Iizuka.

 

Bad Acid trip...holy fuck as a Sonic Adventure Era fan HAVE YOU PLAYED FINAL RUSH? You talk about a bad acid trip, those screens shots got nothing on Final Rush in terms of color diversity Jesus Christ. The Hypocrisy that being tossed around by everyone is mind boggling. I slowly starting to believe the "Sonic fans will never be satisfied with anything" is really true.

 

Wow.

 

If that's what an acid trip looks like, then I would love to go on one for real.

 

I think it's better to chalk this up to being a different world that can be however strange it wants only because it's a completely separate planet, kind of like the creative freedom they had with Colors levels (despite it being more detailed in comparison). Which is probably why I don't mind it too much despite preferring the style and detail of Unleashed/Colors/Generations.

 

Feel the same way. The reason I'm fine with everything is because the aesthetics makes sense with the context of the game. Its not like this game is promoting itself like another Shadow The Hedgehog game and saying they are pulling this kinda tone out their ass just because.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Voyant

[Lady Soniko]

Personally, I'm glad to see SEGA being ballsy again and TRYING something new sans Unleashed, its clear they've stubbed the toe of the controversial giant with this game, since it's not just a gameplay change but also a new art direction, engine and even being ballsy with introducing new enemies and bosses, but I still have this feeling they're trying to please everyone by bringing yet again more classic nostalgia back with the game, if this is in fact a new Lost World, then why are badniks and Sonic tropes inhabiting it rather than making it an entirely NEW experience?

[Sami]

Bad Acid trip...holy fuck as a Sonic Adventure Era fan HAVE YOU PLAYED FINAL RUSH? You talk about a bad acid trip, those screens shots got nothing on Final Rush in terms of color diversity Jesus Christ. The Hypocrisy that being tossed around by everyone is mind boggling. I slowly starting to believe the "Sonic fans will never be satisfied with anything" is really true.

 

Wow.

 

Chill. 

 

About the "different world" thing, I'll say this - That may be true, but I don't find it particularly reassuring that this world is completely devoid of logic or context. I'm just not seeing any clean, unifying theming here. Everything is a jumbled mess of color. Colors played with that concept much better, in my opinion.

 

Let me ask a general question here, because I'm really curious. What do you all think looks more appealing here? Honestly?

 

 

 

Two different levels with the exact same theme - candy. Both of these games take place on weird, abstract, fantastical new planets that look silly and whimsical. Yet despite that, Colors still manages to build a location. It's an intelligently designed industrial center mining resources out of a natural looking terrain that just happens to be made of candy. There are lollipops where trees would be, frosting where grass would be, and cake where stone would be. It all comes together really well, in my opinion, and it looks very visually pleasing. 

 

Lost World is a bunch of strings of licorice floating in the middle of a pink void for no reason other than "well the player needs something to run on". Why are there donuts randomly floating in the middle of nowhere? No reason. They just do.

 

Hell, if this game was built like Colors was, but with HD assets? That would have been glorious. Colors is an absolutely beautiful game thanks to its art style, even despite being on the Wii. This feels like a big step down from that, visually.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I slowly starting to believe the "Sonic fans will never be satisfied with anything" is really true.

...Slowly?

 

You can't go on any site without people trying to play a zero-sum game over the elements of the series, or being downright unreasonable and picky at worst. I thought you've been on here long enough to know that, especially considering how notorious the fandom is.

Let me ask a general question here, because I'm really curious. What do you all think looks more appealing here? Honestly?

Colors, no contest.

 

But both of them suck because it doesn't seem like I can interact with more than just the straight path I'm given, which I feel is equally as important as looking appealing. I don't like to simply look at the background, I want to interact with it just as much. Although leniency should be given for Lost World at the current moment because, unlike Colors, we don't have the full game to make an accurate judgment.

[ArtFenix]

Bad Acid trip...holy fuck as a Sonic Adventure Era fan HAVE YOU PLAYED FINAL RUSH? You talk about a bad acid trip, those screens shots got nothing on Final Rush in terms of color diversity Jesus Christ.

Seriously? Really? OK, please take a look at these again.

and compare them to this

The latter is obliously worse in that department of being a clusterfuck of shit. I don't see where you got it that Final Rush is worse here. I never had any problems deciding where I need to go in Final Rush, yet I already have problems with all those oversaturated colors that look like a mess. I can only say that of all the levels shown so far, this one appeals to me more. At least it doesn't look that empty and while still having that oversimplified design with only geometric objects, it looks much better than the rest. I guess the reason for that might be the inability to see the background that well, so you can't tell if it's the void again or something else which makes the level look like it is actually a place instead of being another random level in random void.

 

That and what Discoid said, pretty much.

 

 

 

 

Colors, no contest.

 

But both of them suck because it doesn't seem like I can interact with more than just the straight path I'm given

That's what buggs me. SLW obviously doesn't look like it has more freedom of movement and interaction than Colors (maybe aside from tube-shaped levels but that's still questionable) and yet people say SLW is somehow gives much more freedom and interaction. That's bullshit, at least from what was shown so far.

Edited July 17, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Lady Soniko]

That's what buggs me. SLW obviously doesn't look like it has more freedom of movement and interaction than Colors (maybe aside from tube-shaped levels but that's still questionable) and yet people say SLW is somehow gives much more freedom and interaction. That's bullshit, at least from what was shown so far.

 

Parkour engine? Climbing up scenery like trees & walls on a whim? Flawlessly running from one path and transitioning to a wall run to a vertical wall climb into a flair flip onto another path? The fact we no longer need enemy or chain bubbles to ACCESS NEW AREAS, it's completely and utterly immersed in how much you interact with the world, as simple as it is, it works and so far every part of the level and geometry is accessible to Sonic for skilled players who WANT to explore.

 

Colours didn't have that, it was still "move forward with a few paths that lead to red rings" in LW, new paths are short cuts or new parts of a level entirely to get to the goal, the fact Sonic has these new moves at his disposal means the player will see a particular spot he wants to try and reach, and he'll probably be able to GET to that spot, without being restricted by "lolinvisiblewalls"

 

It's a huge step forward, because it gives the player a fucking choice if they want to run up that pointless wall? Then they can and see for themselves rather than the game slapping their wrists, saying no, and telling them to get back on track.