Lost World Trailer 2 "This looks a bit like *Insert game here*"

[Solkia]

How can people even make point on the other 5 Deadly Six not talking? It could be sound effects over pre-rendered cutscenes to simply cover the dialogue and risk revealing new content, if you watch their mouth movement, it looks like most are in mid-conversation, and most of the grunts/growls/screams don't even match up with the lip syncing.

 

I hate it when people jump the gun on these things and assume stuff from a 3 second spot in a trailer.

 

But that's the best part

[SuperLink]

But when I play a new Sonic game, I like the number one thought on my mind to be "wow, this place looks beautiful", or "shit yeah I feel awesome speeding through here like a bullet", like how I did in all of Generations' levels. What I don't like to be thinking is "oh cool Sonic Team saved on budget here".

To be fair if the number one thought on your mind is about the visual quality rather than the gameplay quality then the gameplay clearly isn't good enough.

 

Hence my point about visuals taking a backseat in favour of much-needed gameplay focus.

 

If there's any one thing the Sonic series actually needs desperately, it's objectively fantastic gameplay. Other things are, let's be honest, not a priority in comparison to fixing the thing which somehow managed to go all this time without being good enough.

 

Lost World, to me, feels so much like a... game.

The fact you used this as an insult towards it is more depressing than anything.

 

Are we so far gone that games suck unless they take themselves as embarassingly seriously as hollywood blockbusters? Is a game that's famous for being a game feeling like a game something we should be harmoniously ashamed of? I couldn't understand that notion less if I tried, a gaming icon looking and feeling like a game is something I so deeply miss from the industry that it makes me sad just thinking about how people don't even want games to be games anymore.

 

If games stopped being games and the priority on game design of fun were ever removed en-masse in favour of various elements of realism, I would genuinely lose all interest in games. Sonic, as one of the very very few gaming icons even left, very much has the right to be like a game. I can understand very much the criticisms of these visuals, but the notion that looking like a game is negative is bewildering to me.

Edited July 17, 2013 by SuperLink

[Jango]

Sonic, at least on the classic games, was about using the colors right.

Contrast, tone graduation, easy identification of elements.
Lost World is doing that, unlike the most recent games, lots of levels looks like they have a single pallete with different tones, nothing really popped out of the screen, and the elements of the level some times got lost.

 

I'm really happy with the art-style of this game so far, because it does looks like Sonic CD, but in 3D, which, I Love.

[Lady Soniko]

Another thing to point out is this

Not sure why those two would be blacked out in the back.

 

They're standing under some sort of structure, that's probably why they're shadowed out.

[Wraith]

If you want your primary thought to be "Man, this level looks amazing." when you're playing a gameplay focused series like Sonic, than I can't help but think you're expecting the wrong things from the series.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Wraith

[TrueBlue]

Pretty good trailer overall. Only thing that could've made it better would have been to hear Sonic taunt Zavok back at the end. It should be fun seeing him cocky this time, as he won't be having one-sided conversations with robots most of the time.

[Lady Soniko]

If you want your primary thought to be "Man, this level looks amazing." when you're playing a gameplay focused series like Sonic, than I can't help but think you're expecting the wrong things from the series.

 

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Gameplay focused series? What? Hold X to boost across an on rails path?

 

Don't make me laugh, the levels and overall locations of Sonic are teeming with life, character and charm in every game, even 06, (Kingdom Valley was visually beautiful) Diogenes hit the nail on the head, This game feels very immersed because you can interact with most things in the environment, you can actually touch and climb scenery, this is an amazing step for this series, we actually have freedom in a Sonic title, kinda like that Tech Demo for 06's engine where Sonic free falls from a cliff into a forest, I mean it may not be at that level of detail just yet, but this is a pretty fucking big step in that direction.

 

What's the point in playing a Sonic game as Sonic, if you don't end up FEELING like Sonic?

[Wraith]

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Gameplay focused series? What? Hold X to boost across an on rails path?

 

Don't make me laugh, the levels and overall locations of Sonic are teeming with life, character and charm in every game, even 06, (Kingdom Valley was visually beautiful) Diogenes hit the nail on the head, This game feels very immersed because you can interact with most things in the environment, you can actually touch and climb scenery, this is an amazing step for this series, we actually have freedom in a Sonic title, kinda like that Tech Demo for 06's engine where Sonic free falls from a cliff into a forest, I mean it may not be at that level of detail just yet, but this is a pretty fucking big step in that direction.

 

What's the point in playing a Sonic game as Sonic, if you don't end up FEELING like Sonic?

 

 

My point was not that gameplay should be the focus. Like you said, everything should come together with the gameplay being the thing that binds it. Sorry if I wasn't being clear. 

[Stasis]

Another thing to point out is this

 

*pic of Zarok etc*

 

Not sure why those two would be blacked out in the back.

 

This appears to be a lighting issue. Zaroks head and lower half are supposed to be black, but they're grey.

[Eternal EX]

Not to mention, that level ran at mostly sub-30fps on the 360 and chugged horribly. It pretty much ONLY looked good in screenshots.

Lost World will actually look better in motion, at 60 and on an actual TV. 

 

 

I'm sure this will be mentioned by the time my post shows up but............

 

THAT'S NOT EVEN THE REAL GAME. IT'S A MOD FOR GENERATIONS ON A GOOD PC.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Eternal Xtreme

[Yugi Muto]

That's Snailblaster from Sonic 3's Launch Base zone.

 

Aha My bad,it appears your right. I guess I can't be right all the time. aha

You called?

To avoid post strike:

As long as they're optional for the most part, I actually wouldn't mind Wisps becoming a regular for the series. I love Elemental Shields but Iizuka's alien charm is starting to grow on me.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Snail Blaster

[Celestia]

^ Funnily enough, I kind of see the Wisps as the modern Elemental Shields, in a way. If future games introduce more playable characters, I'd want stuff like parkour and the Wisp powers to be what sets Sonic apart from his friends in terms of gameplay, kind of like the shields' special moves.

[Straw Hat]

I can't wait to hear the music in Jungle level. The Eagle Wisp is probably gonna be favorite Wisp outta all of them, but the Rhythm and Asteroid look awesome too. Zavok's voice is fucking cool, as was his speech. I am just loving all of this game so far...

[Sami]

It is a game.

Honestly SLoW looks like it's going to feel more immersive to me because you are actually allowed to touch things. All the detail in the world isn't going to make a level feel real to me when I'm actually just trapped in a little invisible box. Nothing in the modern era games is real except the narrow hallways you're stuck running through. SLoW, while it's obviously less of a physically plausible world, is still a world you can actually touch. And that's more important to me than the illusion of space.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree, because we play very different games for very different reasons, in that case. 

 

Video games have, for as long as they have existed, been defined by their video, audio, and interactivity. That means a lot to me, and I very often expect all of these aspects to deliver, offering a complete experience.

 

Flower didn't have very much gameplay at all - you waved the controller around to control the wind, and flew through enormous fields, canyons, and even wastelands, simply bringing life back to the plants there. It was very simple and, had the game been stripped of its music and visuals, being left playable as a mass of textureless polygons, the game would be incredibly dull. But it wasn't, and for that reason, the game had an amazing impact on me, and it's one of my favorites to this day.

 

What about JRPGs? Most of the gameplay in those is simple menu navigation and strategizing. Take away the story, music, and visuals, and what are you left with? A really fucking boring game.

 

The only game I can think of that was nothing more than simple fun that I really loved was Super Meat Boy, and that's mostly because it was extremely fun to control and extremely unforgiving. I highly doubt Lost World is going to match that, though.

 

To be fair if the number one thought on your mind is about the visual quality rather than the gameplay quality then the gameplay clearly isn't good enough.

 

Hence my point about visuals taking a backseat in favour of much-needed gameplay focus.

 

If there's any one thing the Sonic series actually needs desperately, it's objectively fantastic gameplay. Other things are, let's be honest, not a priority in comparison to fixing the thing which somehow managed to go all this time without being good enough.

 

The fact you used this as an insult towards it is more depressing than anything.

 

Are we so far gone that games suck unless they take themselves as embarassingly seriously as hollywood blockbusters? Is a game that's famous for being a game feeling like a game something we should be harmoniously ashamed of? I couldn't understand that notion less if I tried, a gaming icon looking and feeling like a game is something I so deeply miss from the industry that it makes me sad just thinking about how people don't even want games to be games anymore.

 

If games stopped being games and the priority on game design of fun were ever removed en-masse in favour of various elements of realism, I would genuinely lose all interest in games. Sonic, as one of the very very few gaming icons even left, very much has the right to be like a game.

 

Sweet Christ, that's a lot of hyperbole. I never said it was something to be ashamed of, I'm just stating that it takes me out of the experience. I'm really not sure how else I can elaborate on that, seeing as how so much of it comes down to preference.

 

When one of the most blatant things I'm seeing in a game is "DON'T FORGET THIS IS A GAME", and the first thing that comes to mind is "wow, that looks cheap" I can't help but feel disappointment. Takes me way out of the experience.

 

If you want a more in-depth reason as to why I like Unleashed and Generations? Because the visuals, audio, and gameplay all come together to form one cohesive experience. I liked playing them the first time and discovering these massive worlds to marvel at. I loved speedrunning through them. I loved having my reactions and reflexes tested, and I loved finding all the tiny shortcuts in the level in my attempts to find the fastest possible route. I also really enjoyed searching for Red Rings in Colors and Generations.

 

Contrary to popular opinion, it seems, I actually really love Generations' gameplay. Unleashed's, too. They're fun. I like them.

 

I understand that my view here is likely to be unpopular on a Sonic forum full of Nintendo fans, but I've just come to expect more from the games I play. I like being wowed by the art because games are art. Simple fun is what it is, and I have an appreciation for it, but I like having some depth in what I'm looking at on screen.

 

 

If you want your primary thought to be "Man, this level looks amazing." when you're playing a gameplay focused series like Sonic, than I can't help but think you're expecting the wrong things from the series.

 

I dunno, almost every other game in the series delivers me exactly that. I have a lot of appreciation for deep, well-thought out creative vision. 

 

All of the classics, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, and Sonic Generations all felt like they had a lot of thought and creativity pumped into their art design. They were unique, well-designed, and seamlessly blended into the gameplay to provide one satisfying and cohesive experience. I love video games, but not just because I like jumping on platforms and bopping enemies on the head. I like the escapism of them. The immersion, and the creativity of them. The feelings they give me when done right are very much like a very powerful book or movie. That's why I play games, and that's something I've always liked from Sonic. The thrill of rushing through these worlds, marvelling at the beauty of every structure and detail around me. Not just because it was impressive on a technical level, but because I was seeing an artist's vision realized, and again, that means a lot to me.

 

I'm not trying to undermine the fact that Lost World is unique or creative, either. It is. But the style they're going for just isn't working for me at all, and it's more distracting than immersive. It takes me out of the experience, and rather than feeling like Sonic, rushing through Green Hill Zone at breakneck speeds, I feel like I'm... me, sitting in a chair, holding a controller, running past obstacles and hopping on platforms as I run through a giant tube hovering in the sky for literally no reason other than "fuck you it's a game it doesn't have to make sense".

Edited July 17, 2013 by Discoid

[azoo]

It is a game.

Honestly SLoW looks like it's going to feel more immersive to me because you are actually allowed to touch things. All the detail in the world isn't going to make a level feel real to me when I'm actually just trapped in a little invisible box. Nothing in the modern era games is real except the narrow hallways you're stuck running through. SLoW, while it's obviously less of a physically plausible world, is still a world you can actually touch. And that's more important to me than the illusion of space.

 

What I don't understand is why we're limiting ourselves to one thing or another. I don't see why so much more detailed artwork can't be used with bigger, more touchable environments, in the same way that these really simplistic worlds could also be linear and restricting. Art style and level design are not set hand-in-hand with each other, guys. 

 

Also the visuals to this game aren't held back due to visual limitations. If it really is, then all it is for is for 60 frames per second; because I'm more than sure that the Wii U could pull off better than Unleashed/Generations at a steady 30. A fluid 60 does make all the difference, I understand, but still. 

Edited July 17, 2013 by Azookara

[TwiZoney]

Another thing to point out is this

Not sure why those two would be blacked out in the back.

 

 

Oh that looks like shaders that are working correctly like in Generations. This kinda stuff happened in the Generations trailers. They just have improper shader files it seems.  Which is silly but its true. Remember the Snowboard from city escape being light blue? And it changed, that was due to a shader error.

 

 

Anyways that whole deal about Generations/Unleashed Project looking better than this. Is simply art style and the fact they are trying to get 60FPS. I mean you remember Unleashed with its horrible texture filtering?

 

 

Yeah didn't look real snazzy then, besides Lost World looks great in those bullshots. Just like Unleashed project looks great with its bullshots.

Edited July 17, 2013 by TwiZoney

[Victoes]

Oh that looks like shaders that are working correctly like in Generations. This kinda stuff happened in the Generations trailers. They just have improper shader files it seems.  Which is silly but its true. Remember the Snowboard from city escape being light blue? And it changed, that was due to a shader error.

Well thats something to fix.

[Soniman]

 I feel like I'm... me, sitting in a chair, holding a controller, running past obstacles and hopping on platforms as I run through a giant tube hovering in the sky for literally no reason other than "fuck you it's a game it doesn't have to make sense".

 

Im homing in on this comment because I'm honestly perplexed by the fact that it's hard for you to buy that a Sonic game would have levels like this...Like, why not?

Edited July 17, 2013 by Soniman

[Yugi Muto]

Im homing in on this comment because I'm honestly perplexed by the fact that it's that hard to buy that a Sonic game would have levels like this...Like, why not?

Agreed. The classic games had random bits of level geometry floating as well, it's nothing new.

[Solly]

All this talk of "immersion." If we're defining it as it's usually applied to games, then we're talking about games creating worlds the player can believe as a form of escapism in some capacity, Sonic Lost World does as good of a job as any with its art-- to me, that is. It don't see its floating tubes and waterfalls in the sky as random, or un-cohesive, I see it as whimsical and fantastic. And to me, the simplistic style and emphasis on color over highly detailed textures isn't flat or boring-- it's striking. 

 

Of course, any discussion of how immersive a game can be is pointless before you get your hands on it yourself, and it's already an incredibly subjective topic, but I've always felt that current Sonic games are among the gamiest-games out there, Generations included.

[Wraith]

Im homing in on this comment because I'm honestly perplexed by the fact that it's hard for you to buy that a Sonic game would have levels like this...Like, why not?

 

Especially since even in games like Unleashed we still had shit like big-ass loops in the middle of highways. It didn't exactly make much sense beyond game logic either. 

[Diogenes]

Video games have, for as long as they have existed, been defined by their video, audio, and interactivity. That means a lot to me, and I very often expect all of these aspects to deliver, offering a complete experience.

I'd agree that the best games do exactly that. But I don't see any reason to think SLoW is going to fail particularly badly at any of them...it seems more that it's creating an experience that you, personally, don't care for.

What about JRPGs?

I don't like most JRPGs because I think they're pretty weak in the actual gameplay department. Part of that is because I prefer action games over menu navigation, but I also think a lot of well-accepted RPG gameplay elements are really bad.

Take away the story, music, and visuals, and what are you left with? A really fucking boring game.

To me that seems to suggest that the gameplay of JRPGs needs a lot of work, moreso than that other games should strive to match RPGs in story, music, and visuals.

I liked playing them the first time and discovering these massive worlds to marvel at.

But how do these "massive worlds" intersect with the gameplay? Maybe it's nice the first time, but (and maybe this is just because I'm a wannabe game designer so I look a little harder at how the mechanics work) it seems to become obvious really quickly that it's all fake.

I understand that my view here is likely to be unpopular on a Sonic forum full of Nintendo fans, but I've just come to expect more from the games I play.

See that's what I say, but in the complete opposite direction. I felt the modern games were so anemic in gameplay, and I think SLoW is doing a lot to correct that (even if I still have my complaints about it). And I don't really see the aesthetic design as a step back.

I have a lot of appreciation for deep, well-thought out creative vision.

When in the last decade and a half has a Sonic game had that?

 

What I don't understand is why we're limiting ourselves to one thing or another.

Well, I'm not the one making the game, remember. If I could have my ideal Sonic game, it probably would be more physically grounded, something with a better sense of place, than SLoW, for one. But SLoW is what it is, and I don't see the planetoid-based design or the more saturated and less intricately detailed environments as a deal breaker.

Honestly I find Windy Hill to be a lot more visually appealing than Gens GHZ anyway...

[Yugi Muto]

Back when the initial trailer was released I was in the Generations is better camp, but now this art style has really grown on me. It's kind of like an exaggerated take on the whimsical style the classic games had and I love it.

[FTA]

I like the visual style and art direction that 'Lost World' has, it's really unique and fits well for Sonic. However, I agree with those who say the actual graphics (textures etc) are very underwhelming. If the gameplay is great, on which I'm still not 100% sold (hopefully playing it at 'Sonic Boom' will change my mind) then I can overlook weak textures.

At the end of the day, I just care about the gameplay.

[Sami]

Okay, I concede. There are just too many points to debate against and I have to wake up for work tomorrow at 6:30, haha. Just a quick final comment, since really all I'm doing is chiming in with an unpopular opinion here - 

 

All this talk about immersion, as Solly said, is completely subjective. We like different kinds of games, and for different reasons. That's really all there is to it. 

 

 

Im homing in on this comment because I'm honestly perplexed by the fact that it's hard for you to buy that a Sonic game would have levels like this...Like, why not?

 

I remember "highway in the sky" being a point of negativity in regards to the levels in Generations 3DS. This is more or less the same thing to me.

 

A floating level can work on a gameplay level, and if you like it, more power to you. Personally? When the entire level is a tube in a skybox, it just looks very cheap and distracting to me. Is it a legitimate style? Yes, but it's the exact opposite of what I would want in a game. It just looks odd.

 

 

*words*

 

We value different things, then. To me, a game that is absolutely astounding in all aspects except for the actual game design can still be noteworthy and memorable to me. See: Nier. I really dig stuff like that. Look at the art style. The music, the atmosphere, the voice acting... fuck, it's all so good, and it comes together to deliver an amazing story and form a cohesive experience that really sets it apart from everything else. Gameplay-wise, it's mediocre, but that's fine by me. Not perfect, but still impactful and memorable, and that's what's important.

 

For reference, my two favorite games are Persona 4 and Demon's Souls. I remember them not only for their gameplay (which was damn near perfect in both cases), but also for all the other things that made it what it was. I don't adore Persona 4 for its dungeon crawling, much as I enjoyed it - I love it for the characters, the music, and the plot.

 

This is veering way off topic (... come to think of it, I think I'll make a "what's most important to you in gaming" topic sometime, since this is interesting), so to rope it back to Sonic I'll say this - no other Sonic game has delivered that kind of experience, no. But what they did deliver on was the beautiful art design and game feel. Playing through a level in Sonic Unleashed or Generations is like nothing else I've ever played, and I love it for two things - the ability to marvel at these very believable, beautiful levels, and the exhilarating rush of blasting through them at mach speed.

 

Can I stop and go over to that chunk of land in the background? No. But is the solution really supposed to be stripping the level of all of its decor? To me, it's like getting upset at a nature walk because you're not allowed to climb the trees off the path. Who cares? They're there for you to look at and appreciate, not to interact with. This solution? Mow down all of the trees, and make the path bigger to compensate. Well... okay, but now I have no trees. Cool?

 

But again, to reiterate since I'm pretty much the only one arguing this at this point, it's a preference thing and I don't think there's anything inherently wrong in Lost World's methods of game design. It just doesn't suit my tastes. ... At all. It looks fun and competently designed, but there's nothing else to entice me. It may be fun the first time around, but looking back, what will I remember about it? 

 

 

Especially since even in games like Unleashed we still had shit like big-ass loops in the middle of highways. It didn't exactly make much sense beyond game logic either. 

 

Yet it all works in the context of the world. Does it look silly when you think about it? Yeah, absolutely. And yet it isn't jarring to me because that's just what Sonic's world is like, and always has been like. Loops and rings. 

 

What I don't like is going into a level that literally looks like a giant pill with an obstacle course on it. Why am I here? Why is this planetoid literally in the middle of nowhere? Why does absolutely nothing in this game make any sense beyond game logic?

 

 

For the record, Generations, despite being my favorite Sonic game, is still not what I would have ideally. Visually, I'd like to keep it the same, but what I'd really like to see is improvements in the storytelling and world-building outside of the levels. Something like Unleashed, but better written and without all the bullshit getting in the way of the fun. Make everything outside of the actual levels optional, and make it all cohesive. 

 

You know something I really loved about Unleashed? Adabat in particular? The story told me that I'm trying to reactivate the Chaos Emeralds by going to these temples. The level started in the town area, then to the forest, then the ocean, then the ruins, and finally the temple itself. Once you get to the temple, you find Eggman, and fight him directly outside it. THAT is what I like. Make a game like that, and I'm sold. So long the gameplay is fun, I don't really care what style it's in. Adventure, Classic, Unleashed, Lost World, I really just couldn't care so long it's well designed and gets the job done. 

 

I give Generations a pass because of its 20th Anniversary status and the fact that the story revolves around travelling through time and into these little snippets of the past. It works for what it is, but I was fine with it, hoping they would improve it in the next game.

 

What I'm seeing instead is a step back. Levels that exist for no reason other than to exist (for fuck's sake, Desert Ruins Act 2 has you skydiving in a forest. Wha-...?), and that's boring to me.

 

Feel free to tear this apart. No time to proofread; I have to go to sleep. Please excuse some dumb wording errors if there are any.

 

 

 

Edit - OH FUCK ME, I WROTE ANOTHER ESSAY. WHY DO I DO THIS. GOING TO SLEEP NOW.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Discoid