I Hope You Weren't Wanting A New F-Zero....

[Solkia]

Speaking of sales, don't Metroid games normally sell around 800,000 copies? And Fire Emblem games even less than 650,000 (Hell, the goal they set for Awakening was 500,000 and it just barely made it)

 

Please tell me why sales are the issue again?

 

...

 

And on that note, there are plenty of Nintendo IPs that never try to innovate (Mario Party, Mario Kart, arguably Smash Bros, etc.)

 

Miyamoto is confusing me on levels I didn't know were possible.

[EuroMIX]

Zelda was just a random example, and I wasn't even talking about Skyward Sword. They DID delay TP just so they could have it on the Wii with motion controls.

 

The motion controls were actually good on things aside from the sword. I recall the bow being quite satisfying to control.

 

 

Then there's Donkey Kong Country Returns, where rolling, instead of being mapped to a 100% accurate button like in every other game, is mapped to inaccurate waggle for literally no reason.

 

This was never a massive problem for me personally, but YMMV of course.

 

It's funny because playing 3D Land after NSMBW made me shake my 3DS when I had the propeller block on because I'd become so accustomed to it and it felt weird and a step back in some respects not to have that control for the item.

Miyamoto is confusing me on levels I didn't know were possible.

 

It's possible that it's just not a franchise he particularly cares for, at least not at the moment, and so he's giving what his own personal problem is tackling it. It looks better than saying "we have no clue what to do with it right now" which would just make the company look incompetent.

[Silencer226]

I'd love to have a new F-Zero, I played the shit out of F-Zero X on the N64 when I was kid. It was great fun. You really don't need to innovate anythign to get me interested, just bring it to modern standards, and release that bitch with online multiplayer. Like, seriously that'd be a day one buy for me, and also, that music in F-Zero was fucking awesome.

[Solkia]

When he says innovative idea, he's talking on the level of stuff like the penguin suit and propellor suit and 4P co-op in Wii, Coin Rush and the Gold Flower in 2, and the Squirrel Suit and challenge mode in U.

Gold Flower does the same thing the normal fire flower did in Super Mario World. Not innovative.

4 player co-op is barely functional, to the point that some people hate it.

Squirrel Suit is basically a nerfed Super Cape. Not really innovative.

And didn't you just say that Miyamoto was barely involved in those anyways?

 

Shigsy has like... how much involvement in F-Zero exactly?  I never got the impression very much.  He's been busy focusing on Pikmin 3 lately, if someone comes out of nowhere and says "WHY AREN'T YOU MAKING ME F-ZERO SHIGSY" he doesn't have the knowledge to give a real concrete answer and has probably never even thought about what unique new twist could be put on the F-Zero series, and he sure as hell doesn't have the power or permission to admit something like "it doesn't sell very well to be honest".

 

Give the guy a fucking break.

1st bold: actually he can. He admitted as much in an interview about awakening, and Hideo Baba admits it all the time in interviews about localization of the Tales series.

2nd bold: I'll give him a break when he admits he has no fucking idea what he's doing anymore. Between outdated online methods, killing IPs that THEY fucked up, relying on Mario for a quick buck, and all the other shit standards Nintendo runs on these days, I'm quite frankly tired of it.

[T-Min]

Nintendo's execs, like Miyamoto, don't seem to understand that new gimmicks aren't always necessary for new games. 

 

And yet they keep making New Super Mario Bros. games and have a sequel to 3D Land that no one asked for on the way.

 

The irony is staggering.

I really think you're overreacting just a bit. I said this in the other topic, but I think they are making system sellers and money printers first and then they're going to work on the other franchises. I don't know why we're so quick to jump to the conclusion that they're dead and abandoned and Nintendo ain't touching them again.

*ahem*

 

Star Fox.

 

After the N64 era, the Star Fox franchise was repeatedly stomped and stepped on before finally being put out of its freaking misery after the horrendous DS installment, before Nintendo crapped on its grave with a subpar 3DS remake of the one truly good game in the series that was completely overpriced and added absolutely nothing.

 

Unsurprisingly, the remake sold horribly.

 

Star Fox was not seen at all throughout the entire seventh generation.

 

Also, F-Zero wasn't either, but HEY, apparently that's okay because making a new game that people actually want isn't a good idea. NOPE, instead let's make Generic Unfun Luck-Based Kart Racing Spinoff 8 and add an anti-gravity gimmick as if that changes freaking anything.

 

Also, is Pikmin 3 a "money-printer"? No, that was a game that people wanted. 

 

 

 

When he says innovative idea, he's talking on the level of stuff like the penguin suit and propellor suit and 4P co-op in Wii, Coin Rush and the Gold Flower in 2, and the Squirrel Suit and challenge mode in U.

In which case Miyamoto has a very, very loose idea of what "innovation" actually is.

 

...oh dear, I'm in a bit of a ranty mood today, it seems...

Edited June 21, 2013 by T-Man

[Nepenthe]

@ JezMM: We're giving him a break by telling him to give the franchise to another individual or company if he is really out of ideas on it. As I said, he's not the only developer on Earth.

Regardless, his involvement has little to do with the issue. We're saying that his reason for not allowing another F-Zero into production has largely been bullshit based on the actual output of the company. Nintendo titles don't truly innovate all that often: they just have the quality to stave off the feeling of staleness longer than other companies can afford. So to say that we can't have another F-Zero because it cannot be privy to innovation is hard to believe. The sales excuse people have been toting around doesn't make sense either simply because Kid Icarus Uprising actually exists.

Basically, considering Nintendo's capital and current need for some more first-party awesomeness and diversity for the Wii U, there is literally nothing stopping the production of a new F-Zero. So Miyamoto deserves some shit for this one.

[MegasonicZX]

Honestly, I think its a good thing he is waiting out on this cause while a series doesn't always need something new and innovative (something some games *cough*son*cough*ic*cough get a lot of flak for) I think that if a series hasn't been around for a while, it at least needs some tweaks and improvements to keep things fresh and if possible I would like the next game to have some improvements on the racing like just some more shortcuts (not talking about cutting through the track) and maybe some more moves for you to do with your F-zero machine (not talking about anything cheap just some things to add to the strategy in racing) and maybe somethings unique to each character.

[Tornado]

When he says innovative idea, he's talking on the level of stuff like the penguin suit and propellor suit and 4P co-op in Wii, Coin Rush and the Gold Flower in 2, and the Squirrel Suit and challenge mode in U.

 

Miyamoto was the one who defended the oft-criticized lack of innovation in NSMBW by basically saying "We could have put more effort into it, but decided not to." I'm certain something was lost in translation, but still really not the best example.

[Gabz Girl]

I don't care for F-Zero simply because I've never played the games bar the SNES one, but I can understand everyone's disappointment. I respect Miyamoto-san but what he just said there is quite daft. Maybe it is because the game won't sell very well, but that's bullcrap because if his appearance in Brawl and possibly the next SSB will be acclaimed and loved by many like Pit was in Brawl (and his reboot game was a success!), then they can sell a new F-Zero with a character like that! Maybe they're just waiting till they can get these other more popular franchises out of the way, then start focusing on the "obscure" ones.

 

2nd bold: I'll give him a break when he admits he has no fucking idea what he's doing anymore. Between outdated online methods, killing IPs that THEY fucked up, relying on Mario for a quick buck, and all the other shit standards Nintendo runs on these days, I'm quite frankly tired of it.

 

So you're saying that it's Nintendo's fault for example that Other M sucked and not Team Ninja? It wasn't just the story that was awful you know, the gameplay had problems too. Who's idea was it to have the controller used in both sideways and upright position at multiple parts of the game? Hmm, Team Ninja obviously.

[Silencer226]

I don't care for F-Zero simply because I've never played the games bar the SNES one, but I can understand everyone's disappointment. I respect Miyamoto-san but what he just said there is quite daft. Maybe it is because the game won't sell very well, but that's bullcrap because if his appearance in Brawl and possibly the next SSB will be acclaimed and loved by many like Pit was in Brawl (and his reboot game was a success!), then they can sell a new F-Zero with a character like that! Maybe they're just waiting till they can get these other more popular franchises out of the way, then start focusing on the "obscure" ones.

 

 

So you're saying that it's Nintendo's fault for example that Other M sucked and not Team Ninja? It wasn't just the story that was awful you know, the gameplay had problems too. Who's idea was it to have the controller used in both sideways and upright position at multiple parts of the game? Hmm, Team Ninja obviously.

I think if they were giving Team Ninja Metroid, they could have at least watched over its development. It's their baby, they should at least step in and say "hey maybe that's not that good of an idea".

[Rinzler]

Quite heated in this thread.

 

Anyway I'm just going to assume that the comments were simply PR and nothing more, since I don't really know enough about either of the aforementioned franchises.

That said I don't really think Nintendo is as creatively bankrupt as people imply. After all games like KI Uprising, Luigi's Mansion, and FE Awakening are all sequels for generally forgotten ips that managed to do relatively well, which is another reason why I think the statement is nothing more than PR.

 

I do think that once the Wii U has gotten on solid footing like the 3ds we may see games like the above, hopefully.

[Solkia]

So you're saying that it's Nintendo's fault for example that Other M sucked and not Team Ninja? It wasn't just the story that was awful you know, the gameplay had problems too. Who's idea was it to have the controller used in both sideways and upright position at multiple parts of the game? Hmm, Team Ninja obviously.

...You're kidding right? Please tell me you're kidding.

The fact that they outsourced the game to Team Ninja in the first place was an awful idea, an idea THEY had.

Nintendo had full control over the direction of this game. And they decided to hand it off to Team Floppy Tits Beatum-up, possiblythe worst possible choice they could have made.

 

[Sarah Jane Smith]

I think if they were giving Team Ninja Metroid, they could have at least watched over its development. It's their baby, they should at least step in and say "hey maybe that's not that good of an idea".

Lol

 

But yeah, I was gonna post something like that. Just because someone else developed it doesn't mean it isn't partly Nintendo's responsibility. They're the ones who let TN do it; they should've been overseeing it.

[Tornado]

So you're saying that it's Nintendo's fault for example that Other M sucked and not Team Ninja? It wasn't just the story that was awful you know, the gameplay had problems too. Who's idea was it to have the controller used in both sideways and upright position at multiple parts of the game? Hmm, Team Ninja obviously.

I think if they were giving Team Ninja Metroid, they could have at least watched over its development. It's their baby, they should at least step in and say "hey maybe that's not that good of an idea".

 

Hilariously, it was Sakamoto who placed all of those idiotic edicts on the game. Not Team Ninja.

[Gabz Girl]

I think if they were giving Team Ninja Metroid, they could have at least watched over its development. It's their baby, they should at least step in and say "hey maybe that's not that good of an idea".

 

That's true. From what I can remember, Miyamoto watched over development of Metroid Prime and was very strict about the way the game looked and played. Why they didn't do the same with Other M is beyond my comprehension...

 

Edit: Ok woah, didn't know the game was outsourced to Team Ninja AND it was all Nintendo's decisions and stuff! Wtf? D: I learn something new every day.

[Nintendoga]

So you're saying that it's Nintendo's fault for example that Other M sucked and not Team Ninja? It wasn't just the story that was awful you know, the gameplay had problems too. Who's idea was it to have the controller used in both sideways and upright position at multiple parts of the game? Hmm, Team Ninja obviously.

Yeah, about that...

 

Hayashi:

That's right. Another thing I became really conscious of was the control aspect. In the action games we'd made previously, almost every button on the controller was used to make our human characters perform all these different actions. As a result, we felt that perhaps we were putting some players off.

When Sakamoto-san told us about his 'one Wii Remote only' idea, therefore, we could see that this was a real chance for us.

Sakamoto came up with the controls, Team Ninja just agreed to it.

Most of the awful things we have a problem with in Other M (story, gameplay, music) came from Nintendo's (or more so Sakamoto's) side. Team Ninja did work on the gameplay (and it wasn't very good tbh) but it was Nintendo who gave them the idea about how it should play and what it should play like.

Edit: Aaaaaand now I see your above post only after I posted mine.

Great.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Nintendoga

[MegasonicZX]

I actually like the gameplay of other m from what I have played with it (though having to go into first person just to use missiles was a dumb idea) but I will agree that the writing and story are really bad.

[Sami]

Let's be real here, though. Some things to consider - 

 

• They don't want to outsource anymore.
• If they develop it internally, chances of online play, statistically, are "Nintendo out of ten".

 

Without online play, is it even fucking worth it? No, seriously. Is there even a fucking point in a sequel if it isn't built with modern sensibilities and features and not in an alternate universe where 2004 was high def- oh wait they had online back then too whoops.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Discoid

[Frogging101]

I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for saying this, but i think that people can't seem to make up their minds. Nintendo tries something new and it's "they changed it and now it sucks", but if they keep things the same then it's "milking" successful franchises.

I was having a conversation with my friend the other day about this very thing. People complain to Nintendo that a franchise is getting too samey, so they change it up and then everyone goes "they changed it and now it sucks". We concluded that this isn't because people can't make up their minds; it's actually because there are two separate groups of people that want different things. One group wants something shiny and new while the other group wants the series to stick to basics/classics.

So the "new stuff" group complains that a series is too samey, so the developers change it and that part of the fanbase is now content and shuts their mouths. THEN the other group, the "keep it simple/classic" group starts complaining. People don't tend to make a big deal out of things when they're happy with them, so when one group is satisfied they go silent when at the same time the other one starts complaining. This creates the illusion of the entire fanbase being a bunch of indecisive nitwits.

I hope that made sense.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Frogging101

[T-Min]

 

• If they develop it internally, chances of online play, statistically, are "Nintendo out of ten"

Actually, in the interest of fairness, all Mario Kart games from DS onwards have featured online play.

 

But then again, Star Fox 64 3D was also a thing...

[Conando]

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. The consumer base is always split between a couple of groups, and contented ones generally don't raise a fuss.

[Sami]

Actually, in the interest of fairness, all Mario Kart games from DS onwards have featured online play.

 

But then again, Star Fox 64 3D was also a thing...

 

I've noticed specific teams are the only ones who take the initiative. Sakurai does it, and the MK team does it.

 

... That's about it, I think.

[Tornado]

Don't forget the Fortune Street developers!

[Conando]

Isn't that Square-Eni- Wait, Square-Enix gives a shit about online?!

Edited June 21, 2013 by Super Mario

[EuroMIX]

As Sonic fans we probably should know this already, but the Sonic series is in exactly the same sort of position. It then becomes an issue of "you can't please everybody" so who do you please? I imagine in this case Nintendo's first thought is to please themselves, because if they aren't happy with a game, then they doubt anyone else will be. I know it sounds selfish, but Nintendo doesn't seem the type to throw out a game for the sake of it (I know that sounds crazy given the amount of similar games they sometimes produce).

Edited June 21, 2013 by EuroMIX